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Lost Melnibonean

Wow, I never noticed that v.15

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6 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Cersei was gaining weight in Feast

- Cersei V, AFFC

Must be all the wine. I love how she is becoming Robert.

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"You should not make mock," warned Ysilla. "The whispering dead hate the warm and quick and ever seek for more damned souls to join them."

"I doubt they have a shroud my size." The dwarf stirred the coals with a poker.

"Hatred does not stir the stone men half so much as hunger."

Tyrion V, Dance 18

Tyrion hates his family, and he hungers for Casterly Rock. His hunger outweighs his hatred. 

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I have no idea if GRRM intended this or not, but when I first came across “Borroq”, I thought that the pronunciation was probably similar to “Barack”. His animal is boar.

On reread, I made a connection: “Barack is a bore” is a common criticism of President Obama.

 

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1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

I have no idea if GRRM intended this or not, but when I first came across “Borroq”, I thought that the pronunciation was probably similar to “Barack”. His animal is boar.

 

On reread, I made a connection: “Barack is a bore” is a common criticism of President Obama.

 

 

 

 

Actually, I've never heard that particular criticism of the former President.

I'm pretty sure the boar wordplay in the books has to do with the name Robb. The cycle of the Summer King and Winter King is represented by the fact that Robert (Summer King) is killed by a boar (= Robb, son of the Winter King). When Robb dies, there is symbolism of the Boar's Head Festival, a pagan solstice feast, at the Red Wedding.

I believe the appearance of Borroq and his boar represents the return of the spirit of Robb Stark to Jon Snow's world. The fact that the man and his boar set up camp in the lichyard symbolizes the fact that Robb Stark is dead - he is most comfortable living in the graveyard.

Their arrival may also symbolize the rebirth of the Winter King.

The name of Borroq may also have to do with magical mentors - Qhorin, Moqorro, Qyburn and some other key characters who seem kind of magical all have the letter Q in their names. But this may not be a pattern - I haven't analyzed it systematically.

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1 hour ago, Isobel Harper said:

Barack (original spelling Barak) means "lightening" in Hebrew.  Maybe that means something? 

Barack Donderrion?

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3 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said:

Barack Donderrion?

I was wondering if Beric was a play on Barak.  It's possible!  He is referred to as the "lightning lord."

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7 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

I was wondering if Beric was a play on Barak.  It's possible!  He is referred to as the "lightning lord."

Because of the Dondarrion sigil.

But yes I could see the wordplay value in that.

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3 hours ago, Seams said:

Actually, I've never heard that particular criticism of the former President.

I'm pretty sure the boar wordplay in the books has to do with the name Robb. The cycle of the Summer King and Winter King is represented by the fact that Robert (Summer King) is killed by a boar (= Robb, son of the Winter King). When Robb dies, there is symbolism of the Boar's Head Festival, a pagan solstice feast, at the Red Wedding.

I believe the appearance of Borroq and his boar represents the return of the spirit of Robb Stark to Jon Snow's world. The fact that the man and his boar set up camp in the lichyard symbolizes the fact that Robb Stark is dead - he is most comfortable living in the graveyard.

Their arrival may also symbolize the rebirth of the Winter King.

The name of Borroq may also have to do with magical mentors - Qhorin, Moqorro, Qyburn and some other key characters who seem kind of magical all have the letter Q in their names. But this may not be a pattern - I haven't analyzed it systematically.

I saw a lot of comparisons between Obama’s formality and Clinton’s affability. It manifested often when the press asked “Who would you like to have a beer with?” and people preferred Clinton. The press noted that Clinton’s perception of being relatable, relaxed, and fun weren’t qualities the public was attributing to Obama. ADWD was published in 2011, and Obama took office in 2009, so Borroq was possibly written when the media was making these comparisons. The Mom jeans didn’t help his cool factor, either.

I went digging on the Wiki, and noticed that the 3 ADWD chapters which mention Borroq also mention Hardhome, specifically when events favor the NK (Winter King). In the Prologue, Varamyr mentions Borroq and we also find out that that Mother Mole took many to Hardhome. In Jon XII, Borroq enters Castle Black and we also find out that the situation at Hardhome is critical. In Jon XIII, Jon arranges to send reinforcements to Hardhome, but Jon's attack dooms Hardhome and the NK’s victory is certain. Ghost must be locked up to prevent a fight with Borroq’s boar.

There seems to be a strong connection between the Starks and the Others/NK. Maybe the boar is connected to Robb, because Robb as KITN is connected somehow to Winter/Others/NK in opposition to Robert's Summer King? Robert/Robb is a lesser version of a Song of Ice and Fire through Robb's hinted distant connection to the Others, and Robert's distant connection to the Targs. Ghost’s intense hatred of Borroq’s boar is perplexing if he’s somehow connected to Robb. Unless their souls are now on opposing sides? Living/Dead, Human/Other-ish, Ice/Fire?

http://symboldictionary.net/?p=926: The boar is a companion of the Celtic Diana and a frequent participant in the “wild hunt,” an otherworldly procession of faeries and ghosts.

What’s happening at Hardhome does sound like some variations of the Wild Hunt.

 

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His lordship will hear you now, smuggler."

The knight wore silver armor, his greaves and gauntlet inlaid with niello to suggest flowing fronds of seaweed. The helm beneath his arm was the head of the merling king, with a crown of mother-of-pearl and a jutting beard of jet and jade. His own beard was as grey as the winter sea. Davos rose. "May I know your name, ser?"

"Ser Marlon Manderly." He was a head taller than Davos and three stones heavier, with slate-grey eyes and a haughty way of speaking. "I have the honor to be Lord Wyman's cousin and commander of his garrison. Follow me."

Davos III, Dance 19

@J. Stargaryen, What, if anything, do you make of that? (Your old Emeralds thread was closed. Bummer.) 

ETA

Anybody else think walking about the Merman's Court at White Harbor would be akin to riding the Little Mermaid ride at Disney? 

Under the sea/Under the sea/Darling it's better/Down where it's wetter/Take it from me!

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"Ser Horas and Ser Hobber Redwyne have bribed a guard to let them out a postern gate, the night after next. Arrangements have been made for them to sail on the Pentoshi galley Moonrunner, disguised as oarsmen."
"Can we keep them on those oars for a few years, see how they fancy it?" He smiled. "No, my sister would be distraught to lose such treasured guests. Inform Ser Jacelyn. Seize the man they bribed and explain what an honor it is to serve as a brother of the Night's Watch. And have men posted around the Moonrunner, in case the Redwynes find a second guard short of coin."
(ACoK, Tyrion II)
 
Gerion Lannister had set sail for Valyria when Tyrion was eighteen, intent on recovering the lost ancestral blade of House Lannister and any other treasures that might have survived the Doom. Tyrion had wanted desperately to go with them, but his lord father had dubbed the voyage a "fool's quest," and forbidden him to take part.
(ADwD, Tyrion VIII)
 
Both excerpts include a voyage denied and lost treasures: a sword called Brightroar and honored guests who would be oars. The roar / oar coincidence is what caught my eye, although I've been looking at treasures throughout the books, as well.

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4 hours ago, Seams said:
"Ser Horas and Ser Hobber Redwyne have bribed a guard to let them out a postern gate, the night after next. Arrangements have been made for them to sail on the Pentoshi galley Moonrunner, disguised as oarsmen."
"Can we keep them on those oars for a few years, see how they fancy it?" He smiled. "No, my sister would be distraught to lose such treasured guests. Inform Ser Jacelyn. Seize the man they bribed and explain what an honor it is to serve as a brother of the Night's Watch. And have men posted around the Moonrunner, in case the Redwynes find a second guard short of coin."
(ACoK, Tyrion II)
 
Gerion Lannister had set sail for Valyria when Tyrion was eighteen, intent on recovering the lost ancestral blade of House Lannister and any other treasures that might have survived the Doom. Tyrion had wanted desperately to go with them, but his lord father had dubbed the voyage a "fool's quest," and forbidden him to take part.
(ADwD, Tyrion VIII)
 
Both excerpts include a voyage denied and lost treasures: a sword called Brightroar and honored guests who would be oars. The roar / oar coincidence is what caught my eye, although I've been looking at treasures throughout the books, as well.

Interesting notion. Also note the ship is Pentoshi, maybe Varys set up the guard and the Redwyne's? After Tyrion tells Varys to tell Ser Jacelyn (who works for Varys). Maybe the guard was a spy for Baelish or Cersei?

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On 3/1/2017 at 4:22 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Davos III, Dance 19

@J. Stargaryen, What, if anything, do you make of that? (Your old Emeralds thread was closed. Bummer.) 

ETA

Anybody else think walking about the Merman's Court at White Harbor would be akin to riding the Little Mermaid ride at Disney? 

Under the sea/Under the sea/Darling it's better/Down where it's wetter/Take it from me!

It's another green and black pairing. I'm not sure if it means anything specific here, though.

Just spit balling, but it might be worth noting the mother-of-pearl crown. Which could imply moon/moon mother. And I think there is some connection between dragons and the green and black pairing, or maybe that's just magic in general. So maybe it's reinforcing the connection of dragons and/or magic to the moon. Something like that.

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There's no mention of Aegon or Rhaenys in Ned's fever dream.  (Can't undo the bold.  Ignore it.)

He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.
In the dream his friends rode with him, as they had in life. Proud Martyn Cassel, Jory’s father; faithful Theo Wull; Ethan Glover, who had been Brandon’s squire; Ser Mark Ryswell, soft of speech and gentle of heart; the crannogman, Howland Reed; Lord Dustin on his great red stallion. Ned had known their faces as well as he knew his own once, but the years leech at a man’s memories, even those he has vowed never to forget. In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist.
They were seven, facing three. In the dream as it had been in life. Yet these were no ordinary three. They waited before the round tower, the red mountains of Dorne at their backs, their white cloaks blowing in the wind. And these were no shadows; their faces burned clear, even now. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, had a sad smile on his lips. The hilt of the greatsword Dawn poked over his right shoulder. Ser Oswell Whent was on one knee, sharpening his blade with a whetstone. Across his white-enameled helm, the black bat of his House spread its wings. Between them stood fierce old Ser Gerold Hightower, the White Bull, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.
     ”I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.
     ”We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.
     ”Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.
     ”When King’s Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”
     ”Far away,” said Ser Gerold, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
     ”I came down to Storm’s End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, “and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”
     ”Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.
     ”Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”
     ”Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.
     ”But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”
     ”Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
     ”We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.
     Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
     ”And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
     ”No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice, “now it ends.” As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. “Eddard!” she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.

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Wow, I never noticed that the envoy Yunkai sent to Volantis was the same envoy they sent to Daenerys. 

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There's a theory that one of the reasons GRRM started giving titles to chapters rather than names (e.g. "The Captain of Guards" instead of "Areo") is because he's setting up for having chapters titled "The Prince That Was Promised" and/or "Azor Ahai Reborn" in the future. Well, I recently realized that parts of these phrases have already appeared in some of the chapter titles so far:

  • The Princess in the Tower
  • The Prince of Winterfell
  • The Griffin Reborn

If GRRM is planning on doing this, I think it would be just like him to hint at it by slipping these words into chapter titles beforehand, hidden in plain sight. Also, the very first epithet chapter title that GRRM used in the books was "The Prophet" -- perhaps a clue that there will be more prophecy-related chapter titles later on.

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The reason that Walder Frey is not willing to commit to a cause unless he knows he is on the winning side is because he has seen for himself what happens when you support a cause with too little support at Whitewalls.

I wonder what kind of punishment hid father received for his role in the Second Blackfyre Rebellion..

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That Roose and Ramsey have an argument (that frightens Walda Bolton) just before Little Walder's corpse is brought into the hall.

I always wonder about stone dragons and notice that Greyscale has a lot of (stone) dragony imagery. Scales, we learn it is not healed only "sleeping", i.e. can be woken, also the stone imagery. Too metaphorical? But would suit the misinterpreted prophecies series. Or is that side-shadowing for "Reborn (Stone) Griffon" + dragon?

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As Griff and Young Griff depart the Shy Maid on their way to meet the Golden Company...

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They gave the prince the best of the three horses, a big grey gelding so pale that he was almost white. Griff and Haldon rode beside him on lesser mounts. The road ran south beneath the high white walls of Volon Therys for a good half mile. Then they left the town behind, following the winding course of the Rhoyne through willow groves and poppy fields and past a tall wooden windmill whose blades creaked like old bones as they turned.

The Lost Lord, Dance 24

The willow tree can symbolize several things, strength in the face of adversity, wisdom, and being pursued by some menace. In ancient times scarlet popies symbolized resurection. Windmills, of course evoke Don Quixote, and a vain effort for a vain goal. 

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