Skinchanger Zombies: Jon, the Last Hero, and Coldhands

[ravenous reader]

43 minutes ago, LmL said:

Yes, they make me moan for sure. The one I truly do not get is lime wash stuff. I don't see how the trees can be coated in anything, because the wood is repeatedly compared to bone. If anything, they would seem to have been stripped of their skin. Another thing I thought of - remember how I was talking about the trees being zombies, or Undead somehow, or something similar? Well, I just realized, they're"WIGHT TREES."

Nice catch with 'wight trees' and 'white trees'!  The trees being stripped down to the bone seems to reinforce your recent notion that instead of a happy symbiotic 'marriage' the trees might be being raped by the greenseers/Singers?  When Bran partakes of the bole it's said to symbolize his 'wedding to the trees,' which however has never struck me as Bran being the aggressor.  Rather, if anyone was coerced into the arrangement it was Bran.

Perhaps instead of thinking about the 'lime or ash' treatment as a coating, one might think of it as the residue left over from some kind of magical transformation (alchemical transformations usually involve 'burning' and 'drowning', i.e. fire and water immersion, just as in sword forging).  Weirwoods are based on Yggdrasil which was an 'ash' tree.  Were the weirwoods always magical -- even before the greenseers harnessed the moon and brought it down?

A further point is that the trees and Others are frequently symbolically coated in GRRM's descriptions of them, e.g. silvered by moonlight, frosted with ice and snow, the Others wear shifting 'tree camouflage armor' etc. which implies magical transformation (isn't that your whole idea for the swords 'burning ice' and 'frozen fire' each element tempered by its opposite...I'm thinking of you comparing Jon to black fire in an icy sheath).

[Pain killer Jane]

2 hours ago, LmL said:

The one I truly do not get is lime wash stuff.

I will explain in a bit about that and about the shit speckled gargoyles. I am trying to collect quotes. My starting point is this so far

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She blundered back onto the village green unknowing. The pinewood stakes still stood, charred and scorched but not burned through. The chains about the dead had cooled by now, she saw, but still held the corpses fast in their iron embrace. A raven was perched atop one, pulling at the tatters of burned flesh that clung to its blackened skull. The blowing snow had covered the ashes at the base of the pyre and crept up the dead man's leg as far as his ankle. The old gods mean to bury him, Asha thought. -The Sacrifice, 

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Drifts of dirty snow had piled up against the walls, filling every nook and corner. Some were so high they hid the doors behind them. Under the snow lay grey ash and cinders, and here and there a blackened beam or a pile of bones adorned with scraps of skin and hair. Icicles long as lances hung from the battlements and fringed the towers like an old man's stiff white whiskers.

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Ser Garlan laughed. "I was a plump little boy, I fear, and we do have an uncle called Garth the Gross. So Willas struck first, though not before threatening me with Garlan the Greensick, Garlan the Galling, and Garlan the Gargoyle." - Sansa III, aSoS

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Here and there a torch burned hungrily, casting its ruddy glow over the faces of the wedding guests. The way the mists threw back the shifting light made their features seem bestial, half-human, twisted. Lord Stout became a mastiff, old Lord Locke a vulture, Whoresbane Umber a gargoyle, Big Walder Frey a fox, Little Walder a red bull, lacking only a ring for his nose. Roose Bolton's own face was a pale grey mask, with two chips of dirty ice where his eyes should be.

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Above, he could see some squires building snowmen along the battlements. They were arming them with spears and shields, putting iron halfhelms on their heads, and arraying them along the inner wall, a rank of snowy sentinels......

To command the snowy sentinels on the walls, the squires had erected a dozen snowy lords. One was plainly meant to be Lord Manderly; it was the fattest snowman that Theon had ever seen. The one-armed lord could only be Harwood Stout, the snow lady Barbrey Dustin. And the one closest to the door with the beard made of icicles had to be old Whoresbane Umber. -The Turncloak, aDwD

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If every captain was a king aboard his own ship, as was often said, it was small wonder they named the islands the land of ten thousand kings. And when you have seen your kings shit over the rail and turn green in a storm, it was hard to bend the knee and pretend they were gods. "The Drowned God makes men," old King Urron Redhand had once said, thousands of years ago, "but it's men who make crowns." -Theon I, aCoK

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The ground beneath his feet was a slush of melting snow and soft mud that Dolorous Edd insisted was made of Craster's shit. Sam II, aSoS

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"The little bird flew away, did she? Well, bloody good for her. She shit on the Imp's head and flew off." -Arya XIII, aSoS

and then we have Tyrion saying this about swords

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Shagga gave a roar of anger and clashed club against axe. Jaggot poked at Tyrion's face with the fire-hardened point of a long wooden spear. He did his best not to flinch. "Are these the best weapons you could steal?" he said. "Good enough for killing sheep, perhaps … if the sheep do not fight back. My father's smiths shit better steel."

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"The knights of the hollow hill."

"Knights?" Clegane made the word a sneer. "Dondarrion's a knight, but the rest of you are the sorriest lot of outlaws and broken men I've ever seen. I shit better men than you."

"Any knight can make a knight," said the scarecrow that was Beric Dondarrion... -Arya VI, aSoS

And then this 

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these sewers empty into the river, you say? That would mean the mouths are right below the walls."

"And closed with iron grates," Brown Ben admitted, "though some have rusted through, else I would have drowned in shit. Once inside, it is a long foul climb in pitch-dark through a maze of brick where a man could lose himself forever. The filth is never lower than waist high, and can rise over your head from the stains I saw on the walls. There's things down there too. Biggest rats you ever saw, and worse things. Nasty."

Daario Naharis laughed. "As nasty as you, when you came crawling out? - Dany V, aSoS

Sorry for the quote and info dump just getting some quotes together and processing. Currently in my analysis ashes, shit, blood, snow, salt, rain, fire distorts and most of this boils down to the physical manifestations of the King being holy (his blood, his person and by rights his piss and shit should always be), a bird shitting on you is lucky, rubbing the head of a gargoyle and a dwarf is lucky, a red headed girl is lucky, shitting swords and men (as some of this comes from A storm of swords then it is a shit storm) and all of this granting/give birth to power. 

And this leads me to this

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For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that their bodies are clean, -Hebrews 9:13

Their bodies are cleaned but their souls underneath are not.

yeah so I am a bit scattered at the moment with my analysis on soiled thing.

edit: think of it this way. the God-on-Earth rode around in a hollowed out pearl (think of pearls of wisdom) acting like the piece of dirt that got lodged in a clam and became an irritant which was transformed by the natural defense mechanisms (spit/antibodies) into a precious and venerated object but at its core is still a piece of soil. 

[LmL]

8 hours ago, Blue Tiger said:

Holly is rarely mentioned in ASOIAF, almost always as spearwife's name, but there is one other scene where it shows up:

- I think this is westerosi version of Oak vs Holly King - while in our myths Winter King reigns for 6 months, and so does Summer King, on Westeros the seasons have varying lenghts - sometimes winter reigns supreme for years, sometimes summer.

In Celtic traditions, there was a midwinter holiday called Alban Arthan:

"In the recent Druidic tradition, Alban Arthan is a seasonal festival at theWinter solstice. The name derives from the writings of Iolo Morganwg, the 19th-century radical poet and forger. Alban Arthan translates to The Quarter of the Little Bear. An alternative respelling is Alban Arthuan.

On the solstice, it has recently been speculated (with very little evidence) that druids would gather by the oldest mistletoe-clad oak. The Chief Druid would make his way to the mistletoe to be cut whilst below, other Druids would hold open a sheet to catch it, making sure none of it touched the ground. With his golden sickle, and in one chop, the Chief Druid would remove the mistletoe to be caught below.  The early Christian church banned the use of mistletoe because of its association with Druids.

The holiday is observed in a manner that commemorates the death of the Holly King i dentified with the wren bird (symbolizing the old year and the shortened sun) at the hands of his son and successor, the robin redbreast Oak King (the new year and the new sun that begins to grow). The Battle of the Holly King and Oak King is re-enacted at rituals, both open and closed. The battle is usually in the form of words but there have been some sword battles."

And guess what Humphrey means ...

"Humphrey means "peaceful warrior" (from the Germanic elements hun "warrior, bear cub" and frid "peace")

The Normans introduced this name to England, where it replaced the Old English cognate Hunfrith, and it was regularly used through the Middle Ages. "

 

So, Westeros lacks the Holly/Oak King balance..

Btw, translated descriptions of Holly & Oak Kings from Spanish Wikipedia:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Holly King

An ancient European deity, which ruled during the dark half of the year, that is, from the summer solstice to the winter solstice, with the King of the Oak reigning in the other half of the year. The King of Holly looks like an old man with a white beard, who wears green robes and is adorned with holly leaves and fruits, and was worshiped as a deity of abundance and spiritual help, and among his attributes are deer . The air element corresponds to it. It is believed that it is the deity from which largely the character of Santa Claus, mixed with Christian myths, which would be reinforced with that at the end of his reign, on the winter solstice, is replaced by the King of Oak and He says goodbye until he reigns again, coinciding this date with the present Christmas. At present, many Neopagans have recovered their cult and they usually honor to him in the celebration called Yule.

Oak King

The King of the Oak is an ancient European deity, reigning on the luminous half of the year, ie from the winter solstice to the summer solstice, being in counterpoint with the King of Holly. He is usually depicted as a man younger than the King of Holly, who often dresses in red and is adorned with oak leaves, being a deity of luminosity and rebirth. The Neopagans have regained their cult and honor both gods in the festivities called Litha and Yule.

So Oak King should be younger than Holly King... Hmmm... So I might be wrong about Hollis and Humphrey... Hollis should be older son, not younger...

Do you think that Holly King = holy king?

As in:

 

A holly winter king Euron?

 

and here is desription of Baelor from SSM:

So, Baelor is another Holly King, dressed like a druid?

(stops spamming)

I just wanted to say I've been reading all of your comments, and there's a lot of really good stuff in there. I've just been slammed with regular life stuff the past two days, that's why I haven't responded. The find with Brands wicker basket being formally a place where firewood was held... That's a really great one. Also makes you notice that the names Bran and Brandon have the word brand in them, as in burning brand.

[LmL]

3 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

He he.  More proof that the nennymoans are connected to moons, as I was saying.  

However, you'd better not derail @LmL's thread nor his equanimity with more talk of moaning nennys and nonnys!

It's a reference to Shakespeare:

'Leavy' is an archaic form of 'leafy' tying (somehow) into our tree theme...

I agree the song is about betrayal, in this case Littlefinger's betrayal of Lysa, but also on a deeper level of Sansa. Ultimately, it's about the prime deceiver Satan the serpent in the leavy garden of paradise, of whom Littlefinger is his latest 'incarnation'.  The fall out of the moon door represents 'man's' (and indeed woman's) fall from grace after partaking of the forbidden fruit of knowledge:

The three perils lying in wait for Sansa in the swamp are an allegory for her three stagnant 'love affairs'...

Accordingly, the quicksand, snake, and lizard-lion represent Joffrey, Littlefinger, and Tyrion, respectively.

Littlefinger is the 'snake watching from the tree', the snake pretending to be a bird, who is having the last laugh.

This is a good example of why I (gasp) don't really find Shakespeare compelling (dodges rotten vegetables). I don't like the Rolling Stones either, while I'm at. Kittens are overrated too. Lol. 

Kidding aside, I really cannot enjoy Shakespeare. The language is impenetrable and the references antiquated.  I never have a clue what he's talking about. That's probably a deficiency of being completely self educated- no one ever taught me how to enjoy things which are unpleasant at first. For some reason I relate more to older myth than "classic literature." One reason may be that I have a strong growth dislike for puritanical society. Mythology is wild and carnal. Shakespeare is tea and crumpets and doilies, but with strange words for all three we've never heard of. I'll just leave that analysis for others - most people know more than I do about classic lit, and I feel I have insights into mythology which are less common.

Now that I have lost a few fans, lets get back to talking zombies. 

By the way, what makes you think those three things symbolize what you say? How does Joff have anything to do with quicksand?

[Bluetiger]

Funny that you mention Shakespeare now... I have Macbeth as obligatory reading at school... You say you don't like it in English? Than imagine how difficult it is after being translated to kind of Polish that's been outdated for centuries...

Forcing people to read things they don't understand (like fragments from mythology or poems with complex symbolism) when they don't know the basics only makes them hate reading... And what results this lead to?

In 2014 19 milion Poles didn't read even one book... 6.2million didn't even read any newspaper... Ans we're so proud of having virtually no analphabetism... Than what is this if not analphabetism?

And remember that's just statistics... So probably there are some people who read 30 or more, so the % rise and in reality the situation is even worse...

That's madness, terrible madness and stupudity...

And I feel somewhat similar when it comes to classic literature... but so far I like Ivanhoe. + Dickens is so good at creating atmopshere...

Btw, Ghost of Christmas Present is based on Holly King (he even wears a holly wreath on his head, he is a Green Man and Horned Lord as well - he wears furrs and green robe and carries torch that looks like the horn of plenty).

I wonder if Battle of Deepwood Motte is based on March of the Birnam Wood in Macbeth...

 

With every moment of planning my own symbolism - and that's just for short Christmas story (not much time left :/ ) - I admire GRRM even more... it's so hard when every word matters... it feels somehow draining...

[Isobel Harper]

52 minutes ago, LmL said:

This is a good example of why I (gasp) don't really find Shakespeare compelling (dodges rotten vegetables). I don't like the Rolling Stones either, while I'm at. Kittens are overrated too. Lol. 

Kidding aside, I really cannot enjoy Shakespeare. The language is impenetrable and the references antiquated.  I never have a clue what he's talking about. That's probably a deficiency of being completely self educated- no one ever taught me how to enjoy things which are unpleasant at first. For some reason I relate more to older myth than "classic literature." One reason may be that I have a strong growth dislike for puritanical society. Mythology is wild and carnal. Shakespeare is tea and crumpets and doilies, but with strange words for all three we've never heard of. I'll just leave that analysis for others - most people know more than I do about classic lit, and I feel I have insights into mythology which are less common.

Now that I have lost a few fans, lets get back to talking zombies. 

By the way, what makes you think those three things symbolize what you say? How does Joff have anything to do with quicksand?

 

4 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

(snip)

I think ravenous reader is onto something, but it's probably more appropriate to apply the quicksand to SANDor, no?  That would make this threesome men that want Sansa, but whom she doesn't want in return. (I'll probably be sharing some of those vegetables with you, LmL, if there are any SanSans on here.  Lol!)  She's come very close to being forced to bed the Hound and Tyrion, and I wouldn't be surprised if she's in a similar situation with LF sometime soon.  (Tyrion wouldn't/didn't rape her, and some argue that the Hound wouldn't have gone through with it either, but I doubt LF would be as "noble."  I still don't think he'd succeed, however.)  

There's something about where this scene takes place that seems significant - in a thick forest/swamp, "the wild."  Lady was so docile and trusting when Ned came to kill her that I wonder if Sansa didn't almost domesticate her, in a sense.  The wildling custom of taking a woman is as wild as you get.  Sansa's song of Mercy "tamed" the Hound as well.  Perhaps she'll play a role in "taming" Tyrion and LF?  If she can?  Anywho, I'm just kinda spitballing here.  Sorry to get off topic.

 

[Bluetiger]

5 hours ago, LmL said:

6 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

When I bring up the nennymoans, it brings forth in you many moans (and groans)!   I know I know oh ho ho...

(P.S. If it makes you feel better, think of them as 'many moons')  

 

Yes, they make me moan for sure. The one I truly do not get is lime wash stuff. I don't see how the trees can be coated in anything, because the wood is repeatedly compared to bone. If anything, they would seem to have been stripped of their skin. Another thing I thought of - remember how I was talking about the trees being zombies, or Undead somehow, or something similar? Well

It seems you're right about wight/white trees:

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There were wildlings at Whitetree only a year ago." Thoren Smallwood looked more a lord than Mormont did, clad in Ser Jaremy Rykker's gleaming black mail and embossed breastplate. His heavy cloak was richly trimmed with sable, and clasped with the crossed hammers of the Rykkers, wrought in silver. Ser Jaremy's cloak, once . . . but the wight had claimed Ser Jaremy, and the Night's Watch wasted nothing.

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He remembered Whitetree. Whitetreewas on the maps he'd drawn, on their way north. If this village was Whitetree, he knew where they were. Please, it has to be. He wanted that so badly that he forgot his feet for a little bit, he forgot the ache in his calves and his lower back and the stiff frozen fingers he could scarcely feel. He even forgot about Lord Mormont and Craster and the wights and the Others. Whitetree, Sam prayed, to any god that might be listening.

 

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No happy choice. Sam thought of all the trials that he and Gilly suffered, Craster's Keep and the death of the Old Bear, snow and ice and freezing winds, days and days and days of walking, the wights at Whitetree, Coldhands and the tree of ravens, the Wall, the Wall, the Wall, the Black Gate beneath the earth. What had it all been for? No happy choices and no happy endings

 

[ravenous reader]

1 hour ago, LmL said:

By the way, what makes you think those three things symbolize what you say? How does Joff have anything to do with quicksand?

'Snake in the tree'-- As one well-versed in all things 'wild and carnal,' you should be able to recognise Littlefinger as tempter in the garden plying Sansa with fruit platters, entreating her to partake of the forbidden fruit (and on a more prosaic level he desires to get into her bloomers).

'Lizard-lion'-- I take it you're an A+J=T supporter, given your essay 'Tyrion Targaryen'?  Lizard is a type of dragon (e.g. komodo dragon) hyphenated with lion (self-explanatory) to give hybrid Targ-Lannister sphinx-like product.  Additionally, described as 'half-submerged,' which is fitting considering Tyrion as half-man is an unknown quantity, a 'secret Targ' yet to be revealed, lurking in the shadows.  And deadly.  Not to be underestimated.  Water is also Tyrion's element, considering his history navigating the Casterly plumbing and the Lannister penchant throughout history of drowning their enemies.  This is how alligators kill their prey -- not by biting to death but by dragging them into the water and throttling/asphyxiating them until they drown.  A gruesome death indeed.  (Incidentally, he also strangled Shae).

'Quicksand'-- Granted, this is the flimsiest of the bunch.  However, given that I was reasonably sure in my interpretation of the other two as Sansa's ill-fated suitors, and that GRRM can't resist doing things in threes, I took this to represent Joffrey.  In the tradition of 'wayward bride', Sansa's downfall (which in turn brings about the downfall of others around her, starting with her wolf) lies in wandering off the path, beguiled as she is by false flowers.  Plucking those false flowers or corrupted fruits leads her to lose her bearings and lose her footing, dragging her down into symbolic quicksand.  Being grounded implies security in ones identity, something Sansa forfeits when she betrays her family, losing them and herself in the process.  The loss of her identity is symbolised by the name 'Alayne Stone' which Petyr has chosen for her in her new role as his daughter and possibly wife.  Finally, I rather whimsically like to imagine Joffrey's brief life as an hourglass, whose sand quickly ran out.

24 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

I think ravenous reader is onto something, but it's probably more appropriate to apply the quicksand to SANDor, no?  That would make this threesome men that want Sansa, but whom she doesn't want in return. (I'll probably be sharing some of those vegetables with you, LmL, if there are any SanSans on here.  Lol!)  She's come very close to being forced to bed the Hound and Tyrion, and I wouldn't be surprised if she's in a similar situation with LF sometime soon.  (Tyrion wouldn't/didn't rape her, and some argue that the Hound wouldn't have gone through with it either, but I doubt LF would be as "noble."  I still don't think he'd succeed, however.)  

There's something about where this scene takes place that seems significant - in a thick forest/swamp, "the wild."  Lady was so docile and trusting when Ned came to kill her that I wonder if Sansa didn't almost domesticate her, in a sense.  The wildling custom of taking a woman is as wild as you get.  Sansa's song of Mercy "tamed" the Hound as well.  Perhaps she'll play a role in "taming" Tyrion and LF?  If she can?  Anywho, I'm just kinda spitballing here.  Sorry to get off topic.

You make some great points -- I like the SAND-or catch!  I agree about the overly domesticated wolf -- which would apply both to Sansa and Ned, the parent whom she most resembles in temperament.  Like Ned, she is estranged from her own wolfblood.  As always, GRRM is conveying the message of balance -- the golden mean of 'goldilocks' -- that having too little wolfblood is just as dangerous as having too much!

1 hour ago, Blue Tiger said:

I wonder if Battle of Deepwood Motte is based on March of the Birnam Wood in Macbeth...

Very likely.  There's also this from Macbeth:

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To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

The sound and the fury signifying nothing is represented by the cry of 'agony and ecstasy' that rends the void and possibly a moon -- the violent crucible of life inextricably wound up with death.  Isn't that what GRRM is giving us in the figure of the fool, pre-eminently Patchface, 'a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury'...oh oh oh.. whose nonsense 'nennymoaning' signifies nothing?

1 hour ago, LmL said:

This is a good example of why I (gasp) don't really find Shakespeare compelling (dodges rotten vegetables). I don't like the Rolling Stones either, while I'm at. Kittens are overrated too. Lol. 

Kidding aside, I really cannot enjoy Shakespeare. The language is impenetrable and the references antiquated.  I never have a clue what he's talking about. That's probably a deficiency of being completely self educated- no one ever taught me how to enjoy things which are unpleasant at first. For some reason I relate more to older myth than "classic literature." One reason may be that I have a strong growth dislike for puritanical society. Mythology is wild and carnal. Shakespeare is tea and crumpets and doilies, but with strange words for all three we've never heard of. I'll just leave that analysis for others - most people know more than I do about classic lit, and I feel I have insights into mythology which are less common.

It's ironic that you don't care for poetry, since your own writing betrays a poetic flair.

The reason we should pay attention to, if not enjoy, Shakespeare is that GRRM seems to care a great deal, borrowing from him and sometimes quoting him verbatim, as @Isobel Harper has referenced.  He's even named one of his characters -- 'Will' from the Prologue -- after him in acknowledgement (the other ranger 'Gared' is an anagram of Edgar for Edgar Allan Poe who wrote the famous poem 'The Raven' and was into writing the kind of horror stories GRRM might enjoy).

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Now that I have lost a few fans, lets get back to talking zombies. 

You really are moaning and groaning today!  I shall be off like an errant piece of moon shrapnel careening off into the void in order to wreak my poetic havoc elsewhere!  But -- don't rest assured...I may return...

[Bluetiger]

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@ravenous reader said:

He's even named one of his characters -- 'Will' from the Prologue -- after him in acknowledgement (the other ranger 'Gared' is an anagram of Edgar for Edgar Allan Poe (who wrote the famous poem 'The Raven' and was into writing the kind of horror stories GRRM might enjoy).

And Waymar Royce is James Joyce, it even rhymes.

Gladden Wylde is both Tolkien (Gladden fields) and Oscar Wilde.

Lothar Mallery probably is Thomas Mallory, author of Le mort d'Arthur.

Walter Whent might be Sir Walter Scott.

[ravenous reader]

1 minute ago, Blue Tiger said:

And Waymar Royce is James Joyce, it even rhymes.

Gladden Wylde is both Tolkien (Gladden fields) and Oscar Wilde.

Lothar Mallery probably is Thomas Mallory, author of Le mort d'Arthur.

Walter Whent might be Sir Walter Scott.

I like Waymar Royce as James Joyce!  I used to think GRRM might be referring to himself considering his full name George Raymond Richard Martin...Way-Mar...Ray-Mar...who wears a sable coat; a 'sable' is the European name for the American 'marten'!

[Bluetiger]

1 minute ago, ravenous reader said:

I like Waymar Royce as James Joyce!  I used to think GRRM might be referring to himself considering his full name George Raymond Richard Martin...Way-Mar...Ray-Mar...who wears a sable coat; a 'sable' is the European name for the American 'marten'!

If I even publish sth I must ensure than no one ever finds out what my surname means.

But, I've noticed one cool thing. First letters of my names form shortened form of English version of my first name.

[LmL]

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

'Snake in the tree'-- As one well-versed in all things 'wild and carnal,' you should be able to recognise Littlefinger as tempter in the garden plying Sansa with fruit platters, entreating her to partake of the forbidden fruit (and on a more prosaic level he desires to get into her bloomers).

'Lizard-lion'-- I take it you're an A+J=T supporter, given your essay 'Tyrion Targaryen'?  Lizard is a type of dragon (e.g. komodo dragon) hyphenated with lion (self-explanatory) to give hybrid Targ-Lannister sphinx-like product.  Additionally, described as 'half-submerged,' which is fitting considering Tyrion as half-man is an unknown quantity, a 'secret Targ' yet to be revealed, lurking in the shadows.  And deadly.  Not to be underestimated.  Water is also Tyrion's element, considering his history navigating the Casterly plumbing and the Lannister penchant throughout history of drowning their enemies.  This is how alligators kill their prey -- not by biting to death but by dragging them into the water and throttling/asphyxiating them until they drown.  A gruesome death indeed.  (Incidentally, he also strangled Shae).

'Quicksand'-- Granted, this is the flimsiest of the bunch.  However, given that I was reasonably sure in my interpretation of the other two as Sansa's ill-fated suitors, and that GRRM can't resist doing things in threes, I took this to represent Joffrey.  In the tradition of 'wayward bride', Sansa's downfall (which in turn brings about the downfall of others around her, starting with her wolf) lies in wandering off the path, beguiled as she is by false flowers.  Plucking those false flowers or corrupted fruits leads her to lose her bearings and lose her footing, dragging her down into symbolic quicksand.  Being grounded implies security in ones identity, something Sansa forfeits when she betrays her family, losing them and herself in the process.  The loss of her identity is symbolised by the name 'Alayne Stone' which Petyr has chosen for her in her new role as his daughter and possibly wife.  Finally, I rather whimsically like to imagine Joffrey's brief life as an hourglass, whose sand quickly ran out.

You make some great points -- I like the SAND-or catch!  I agree about the overly domesticated wolf -- which would apply both to Sansa and Ned, the parent whom she most resembles in temperament.  Like Ned, she is estranged from her own wolfblood.  As always, GRRM is conveying the message of balance -- the golden mean of 'goldilocks' -- that having too little wolfblood is just as dangerous as having too much!

Very likely.  There's also this from Macbeth:

The sound and the fury signifying nothing is represented by the cry of 'agony and ecstasy' that rends the void and possibly a moon -- the violent crucible of life inextricably wound up with death.  Isn't that what GRRM is giving us in the figure of the fool, pre-eminently Patchface, 'a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury'...oh oh oh.. whose nonsense 'nennymoaning' signifies nothing?

It's ironic that you don't care for poetry, since your own writing betrays a poetic flair.

The reason we should pay attention to, if not enjoy, Shakespeare is that GRRM seems to care a great deal, borrowing from him and sometimes quoting him verbatim, as @Isobel Harper has referenced.  He's even named one of his characters -- 'Will' from the Prologue -- after him in acknowledgement (the other ranger 'Gared' is an anagram of Edgar for Edgar Allan Poe who wrote the famous poem 'The Raven' and was into writing the kind of horror stories GRRM might enjoy).

You really are moaning and groaning today!  I shall be off like an errant piece of moon shrapnel careening off into the void in order to wreak my poetic havoc elsewhere!  But -- don't rest assured...I may return...

I never said I didn't like poetry! I said I can't read Shakespeare. Hardly the same thing. Even the bit you quoted above - I read it three times, it's hard to pay attention. I have no idea what it says. And I have a very long attention span. I just cannot penetrate the prose, I have to spend so much time trying to figure out what he's even saying from word to word to put together a larger meaning - and because I don't know the context, it's literally like Greek. It helps if you explain it a bit, and yeah, I know George is referencing Shakespeare. That's why I qualified my nennymoaning by saying that it's most likely my personal deficiency or taste or whatever. It just seems like gibberish. I know he's "the greatest writer in the history of the English language..." I'll just leave him to others to enjoy. 

As for high poetry, I have read and enjoyed Ovid's Metamorphoses - so I do like epic poetry. Just not Shakespeare. Anyway. Doesn't mean you can't share any if it's relevant, I will just need a translation and an explanation.  I am always happy to hear whatever you have to say, RR. 

As for the scene in the swamp, yes, Petyr and Tyrion seem like good matches, that was readily apparent for all the reasons you say. But Joffrey doesn't fit, at all, having no sand symbolism of any kind that I am aware of. Sandor makes more sense, as he actually means more to Sansa than Joff. Joff had no emotional connection with her, he was simply a psychopath. Still, you would think Joff would fit in that grouping of men who tried or will try to violate Sansa's sovereignty, or in Tyrion's case, rejecting the opportunity to do so. 

Is there anything else in this chapter which adds to the metaphor you are seeing here? What's the meaning of these dangers to her being in the swamp as she walks by? What is the overall narrative of the chapter? Usually a central metaphor in a chapter will be reinforced through the chapter, I have found. 

By the way, @ravenous reader, thank you for saying my writing has a poetic touch; that means a lot coming from you. Secondly, I saw your explanation of your name the other day and I wanted to tell you I thought that was really cool, and I was a little dumbstruck that the connection between ravenous wolves and ravens had to occurred to me. George is very clever about spotting any sort of confluence of ideas that can be useful for his themes and making use of them. 

[LmL]

8 hours ago, Pain killer Jane said:

I will explain in a bit about that and about the shit speckled gargoyles. I am trying to collect quotes. My starting point is this so far

and then we have Tyrion saying this about swords

And then this 

Sorry for the quote and info dump just getting some quotes together and processing. Currently in my analysis ashes, shit, blood, snow, salt, rain, fire distorts and most of this boils down to the physical manifestations of the King being holy (his blood, his person and by rights his piss and shit should always be), a bird shitting on you is lucky, rubbing the head of a gargoyle and a dwarf is lucky, a red headed girl is lucky, shitting swords and men (as some of this comes from A storm of swords then it is a shit storm) and all of this granting/give birth to power. 

And this leads me to this

Their bodies are cleaned but their souls underneath are not.

yeah so I am a bit scattered at the moment with my analysis on soiled thing.

edit: think of it this way. the God-on-Earth rode around in a hollowed out pearl (think of pearls of wisdom) acting like the piece of dirt that got lodged in a clam and became an irritant which was transformed by the natural defense mechanisms (spit/antibodies) into a precious and venerated object but at its core is still a piece of soil. 

First, I want to say that it finally sunk in that a whitewash is a lime wash. It's actually doesn't coat the wood - it sinks into it and bonds with it. So I understand the basic connection, maybe the rest of it will make sense now. Where do limes come in in the story? And what's the deer meaning?

As for the piece of dirt surrounded by a pearl... that's the exact image of the fire moon meteor I believe is lodged inside the ice moon. That's it exactly. It's Sansa inside the Eyrie. It's Brienne getting buried in an avalanche of Biter, and it's like the little piece of Brienne Biter ate. Very cool, you may have finally made sense of the God Emperor's pearl

[ravenous reader]

6 hours ago, Cowboy Dan said:

I'm slowly catching up but I'm very tired. I don't need sleep quite as much as the average person and have slept about 6-9 hours in the last 5 days. I feel amazing considering how little that is. I'm going to take a nap and be back later tonight. Let's keep up the good work everyone!

Diazepam 5 mg or Lorazepam 4 mg.   Don't fry yourself.

[ravenous reader]

3 minutes ago, Cowboy Dan said:

[L(o)v(e) (i)t]

that's too cryptic for even me to understand...my brain not sleep-deprived enough yet for the 'higher' mysteries...

[LynnS]

6 hours ago, Blue Tiger said:

And Waymar Royce is James Joyce, it even rhymes.

Gladden Wylde is both Tolkien (Gladden fields) and Oscar Wilde.

Lothar Mallery probably is Thomas Mallory, author of Le mort d'Arthur.

Walter Whent might be Sir Walter Scott.

Hah!  I've been pondering this grouping of three for a while:

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A Storm of Swords - Jon III
He found Ghost atop the hill, as he thought he might. The white wolf never howled, yet something drew him to the heights all the same, and he would squat there on his hindquarters, hot breath rising in a white mist as his red eyes drank the stars.
"Do you have names for them as well?" Jon asked, as he went to one knee beside the direwolf and scratched the thick white fur on his neck. "The Hare? The Doe? The She-Wolf?" Ghost licked his face, his rough wet tongue rasping against the scabs where the eagle's talons had ripped Jon's cheek. The bird marked both of us, he thought. "Ghost," he said quietly, "on the morrow we go over. There's no steps here, no cage-and-crane, no way for me to get you to the other side. We have to part. Do you understand?"

This passage occurs immediately after Jon's WierBran experience.  Ghost is looking up at the stars.  There are no constellations so named but a Hare is a doe or a buck, male and female; while baby rabbits are called kittens or kit - Kit Harington.  LOL 

[Pain killer Jane]

1 hour ago, LmL said:

First, I want to say that it finally sunk in that a whitewash is a lime wash. It's actually doesn't coat the wood - it sinks into it and bonds with it. So I understand the basic connection, maybe the rest of it will make sense now.

 Yay!!! 

2 hours ago, LmL said:

Where do limes come in in the story? And what's the deer meaning?

Now the limes are tricky because it can refer to the fruit

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Others farther back let fly with lemons, limes, and oranges, crying "War! War! To the spears!" One of the guards was hit in the eye with a lemon, and the captain himself had an orange splatter off his foot. - The Captain of the Guards, aFfC

the corrosive material lime 

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It was during the fifth and final war that the Freehold chose to make sure there would be no sixth war. The ancient brick walls of Old Ghis, first erected by Grazdan the Great in ancient days, were razed. The colossal pyramids and temples and homes were given over to dragonflame. The fields were sown with salt, lime, and skulls. - tWoIaF

or the burnt bones of coral 

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In the southeast the proud city-states of the Qaathi arose; in the forests to the north, along the shores of the Shivering Sea, were the domains of the woods walkers, a diminutive folk whom many maesters believe to have been kin to the children of the forest; between them could be found the hill kingdoms of the Cymmeri, the long-legged Gipps with their wicker shields and lime-stiffened hair, and the brown-skinned palehaired Zoqora, who rode to war in chariots. -tWoIaF

and there are references to lime juice being used to fight off disease

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"There will be sickness too," he went on, "bleeding gums and loose teeth. Maester Aemon used to say that lime juice and fresh meat would remedy that....- Jon IV, aDwD

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"We'd do well not to breathe the fog either," said Haldon. "Garin's Curse is all about us."

The only way not to breathe the fog is not to breathe. "Garin's Curse is only greyscale," said Tyrion. The curse was oft seen in children, especially in damp, cold climes. The afflicted flesh stiffened, calcified, and cracked, though the dwarf had read that greyscale's progress could be stayed by limes, mustard poultices, and scalding-hot baths (the maesters said) - Tyrion V, aDwD

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Salladhor Saan threw an arm around the captain's shoulders. "This was well done, Khorane. You will be having a fine reward, I am thinking. Meizo Mahr, be a good eunuch and take my friend Davos to the owner's cabin. Fetch him some hot wine with cloves, I am misliking the sound of that cough. Squeeze some lime in it as well. And bring white cheese and a bowl of those cracked green olives we counted earlier! Davos, I will join you soon, once I have bespoken our good captain. You will be forgiving me, I know. Do not eat all the olives, or I must be cross with you!" - Davos II, aSoS

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Missandei served her duck eggs and dog sausage, and half a cup of sweetened wine mixed with the juice of a lime. The honey drew flies, but a scented candle drove them off. The flies were not so troublesome up here as they were in the rest of her city, she had found, something else she liked about the pyramid. "I must remember to do something about the flies," Dany said. "Are there many flies on Naath, Missandei?"

"On Naath there are butterflies," the scribe responded in the Common Tongue. "More wine?" - Dany VI, aSoS

so since there are people at the wall that are carriers of Greyscale, they are screwed now that all their limes are gone. And since we know that Meereen is being affected by the pale mare it is interesting that Missandei is giving wine to Dany with lime juice and then offers her more and I admit that it seems like Missandei is distracting Dany from asking her about the butterflies on Naath. 

this is historically correct on the usage of lime juice to stave off disease. British sailors were given the nickname 'limey' because the British navy used limes and lime juice to stave off scurvy which is a deficiency  of Vitamin C, which among its symptoms are; bleeding gums, sore arms and legs, and digestion problems. And the lime juice was a closely guarded military secret.

And then we have lime juice used for killing.

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Such a small thing to hold the power of life and death. It was made from a certain plant that grew only on the islands of the Jade Sea, half a world away. The leaves had to be aged, and soaked in a wash of limes and sugar water and certain rare spices from the Summer Isles. - Cressen, aCoK

 and then we have a very sneaky reference of lime juice being used to change the color of hair 

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In the songs, Lann was the fellow who winkled the Casterlys out of Casterly Rock with no weapon but his wits, and stole gold from the sun to brighten his curly hair.

it wasn't gold it was lime juice. 

and to cover up a black dragon

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 The Fiddler smelled of oranges and limes, with a hint of some strange eastern spice beneath. Nutmeg, perhaps. Dunk could not have said. What did he know of nutmeg?

And we know that washing in limes and foreign spices is a way to create The Strangler.

And there is another disease that comes from deer ticks called Lyme disease. 

Btw the quote with Sallador and Davos has a reference to the crucifixion 

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Do not eat all the olives, or I must be cross with you!" - Davos II, aSoS

Jesus and the disciples slept in the Garden of Gethsemane that was a grove of olive trees and it was there that Judas betrayed him. 

2 hours ago, LmL said:

As for the piece of dirt surrounded by a pearl... that's the exact image of the fire moon meteor I believe is lodged inside the ice moon. That's it exactly. It's Sansa inside the Eyrie. It's Brienne getting buried in an avalanche of Biter, and it's like the little piece of Brienne Biter ate. Very cool, you may have finally made sense of the God Emperor's pearl

And it is related to the onion conversation between Davos and Melisandre. 

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And Stannis laughed. A sudden gust, rough and full of scorn. "I told you, Melisandre," he said to the red woman, "my Onion Knight tells me the truth." -Davos II, aCoK

the Onion knight and his pearls of wisdom

Quote

The last time it was life I brought to Storm's End, shaped to look like onions. This time it is death, in the shape of Melisandre of Asshai. 

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Even the sea brought him no comfort tonight, though. "I can smell the fear on you, ser knight," the red woman said softly.

"Someone once told me the night is dark and full of terrors. And tonight I am no knight. Tonight I am Davos the smuggler again. Would that you were an onion."

She laughed. "Is it me you fear? Or what we do?"

"What you do. I'll have no part of it."

"Your hand raised the sail. Your hand holds the tiller."

Silent, Davos tended to his course. The shore was a snarl of rocks, so he was taking them well out across the bay. He would wait for the tide to turn before coming about. Storm's End dwindled behind them, but the red woman seemed unconcerned. "Are you a good man, Davos Seaworth?" she asked.

Would a good man be doing this? "I am a man," he said. "I am kind to my wife, but I have known other women. I have tried to be a father to my sons, to help make them a place in this world. Aye, I've broken laws, but I never felt evil until tonight. I would say my parts are mixed, m'lady. Good and bad."

"A grey man," she said. "Neither white nor black, but partaking of both. Is that what you are, Ser Davos?"

"What if I am? It seems to me that most men are grey."

"If half of an onion is black with rot, it is a rotten onion. A man is good, or he is evil."

So Davos is an Onion Knight Sailor with black sails (you can consider it to be a jolly roger and remember that there is a quote that when a pirate grew rich enough they became princes) and an onion that is actually a pearl and onions release a gas that cause tears as a defense mechanism like the spit shine the piece of dirt gets. And if the pearl = onion and pearl = Sansa the fire moon meteor inside ice moon then the onion = Sansa and we have another reason why there are bloody tears appearing. 

[Pain killer Jane]

@LmL I also found support for the spiked heads being weirwoods 

Quote

Jon Snow and his black brothers were gathered around three spears, some twenty yards away.

The spears were eight feet long and made of ash. The one on the left had a slight crook, but the other two were smooth and straight. At the top of each was impaled a severed head. Their beards were full of ice, and the falling snow had given them white hoods. Where their eyes had been, only empty sockets remained, black and bloody holes that stared down in silent accusation. -Mel I, aDwD

Like the Stranger, the Hooded Lord, Lady Stoneheart, and the Shrouded-Lord

Quote

Outside the snow still fell. The snowmen the squires had built had grown into monstrous giants, ten feet tall and hideously misshapen. White walls rose to either side as he and Rowan made their way to the godswood; the paths between keep and tower and hall had turned into a maze of icy trenches, shoveled out hourly to keep them clear. It was easy to get lost in that frozen labyrinth, but Theon Greyjoy knew every twist and turning.

Even the godswood was turning white. A film of ice had formed upon the pool beneath the heart tree, and the face carved into its pale trunk had grown a mustache of little icicles.

And take a look at House Mullen's sigil of a green pine tree covered with snow and Hallis was last seen running around with Ned's bones. 

And the finally thing to add that since I read on here the connection of the Weirwoods and the whispering woods where Jaime, the lion hearted soiled knight, is turned by the moon into an Other, we have 

Quote

 "Ser Clarence Crabb, I said. I got his blood in me. He was eight foot tall, and so strong he could uproot pine trees with one hand and chuck them half a mile. No horse could bear his weight, so he rode an aurochs."

"What does he have to do with this smugglers' cove?"

"His wife was a woods witch. Whenever Ser Clarence killed a man, he'd fetch his head back home and his wife would kiss it on the lips and bring it back t' life. Lords, they were, and wizards, and famous knights and pirates. One was king o' Duskendale. They gave old Crabb good counsel. Being they was just heads, they couldn't talk real loud, but they never shut up neither. When you're a head, talking's all you got to pass the day. So Crabb's keep got named the Whispers. Still is, though it's been a ruin for a thousand years. A lonely place, the Whispers." - Brienne III, aFfC

which I am pretty sure someone made this connection but I wanted to add the parts on how the severed heads are like the whispering weirwoods and possibly the creation of Wight trees like you termed. 

[LmL]

1 hour ago, Pain killer Jane said:

@LmL I also found support for the spiked heads being weirwoods 

Icy beard connection, I like it.   I have noticed their white hoods as well - is george talking about the Klan here? Ha, I doubt it. Remember, those heads are Black Jack Bulwer (descendent of Garth, lunar bull symbolism), Garth Greyfeather (the last of the three garth, the loyal one), and "Hairy Hall," who just sounds like a "Widman of the Woods" type. So those are some potent sacrifices right there, you know? They are on spears of ash, and Yggy was an ash of course, so I would say they are likely meant as trees.

So what does that tell us? Deal Garth people went int giving the trees faces, right? They are garth-woods after all. Here's the weird part - they are also symbolizing those moon meteors, the bloody tears or eyes of the moon, trailing ash behind them as they weep black blood. And this is what I have been trying to close in on - what is the connection between there wierwoods and the meteors? I get that greenseers were involved in bringing down the moon or steering the comet or something like that, but the meteors themselves caused a change to weirwoodnet, I am am sure of it. They lightning bolt set the tree on fire, after all. The burning tree which transmits the fire of the gods to man was crated when a moon meteor fell. 

One idea is that the God's Eye is a crater lake, and the Isle of Face sis the splash back island which sometimes forms in the center of such lakes. Watch this awesome video about the God's Eye being a crater lake by youtuber "AnAmericanThinks." If this is the case, we have an island of weirwoods growing overtop a black meteor deposit. I suspect tis might the case, white honestly. The weirwood might be transmuting the poison effects somehow, at cost to themselves. 

Quote

Like the Stranger, the Hooded Lord, Lady Stoneheart, and the Shrouded-Lord

Are the hoods just kind of general "lord of death" / psychopomp symbols?

Quote

And take a look at House Mullen's sigil of a green pine tree covered with snow and Hallis was last seen running around with Ned's bones. 

Snow covered trees = Others, so "the Other shave Ned's bones"? Something like that?

Quote

And the finally thing to add that since I read on here the connection of the Weirwoods and the whispering woods where Jaime, the lion hearted soiled knight, is turned by the moon into an Other, we have 

which I am pretty sure someone made this connection but I wanted to add the parts on how the severed heads are like the whispering weirwoods and possibly the creation of Wight trees like you termed. 

I think one of the major things the Whispers scene does is to tie in the head of Bran to the weirwood mythology, don't you? And Brienne feeds the weirwood with a corpse too, after watering the ground extensively with blood. I mean, they bury Nimble Dick right under the weir. There is also extensive morningstar symbolism, talk of lucifer and magic swords - all mixed in with the weirwood symbolism. In fact, Shagwell drops out of the tree with a triple morningstar. There's your fool version of AA, throwing out the three heads of the dragon.  He then becomes a gravedigger, like Sandor the burned hellhound. Interesting. Brienne is playing the ice moon here, in a similar setup to the story of Berwyn of the Mirror shield, where Berwyn is the ice moon (like Brienne) and the eye of the dragon Urrax represents the God's eye / sun-moon conjunction. This version of the  monomyth depicts the ice moon as wielding the comet instead of the sun, which is fine, because it's all a matter of interpreting one major event which was seen in the sky, and people can describe it in different ways. So in this arrangement, Shagwell is AA reborn as a fool with three dragon heads. Who summoned him? Was it Brienne who drew him out? Or was it Dick? I need to re-read that scene now.

Oh and to your points, yes, reanimated severed heads involved in the making of a whispering device, beneath a weirwood, similar to the heads on spears. A legend about a guy who rode a bull around and was a giant to suggest horned people in the way that riding an elk suggests Coldhands as a green man. 

I also read that whitewashing wood is called "whiting."  Pretty rich, right? I suspect George might be making a joke about whitewashing a sin, too, right?

[Bluetiger]

Quote

Ser Clarence Crabb, I said. I got his blood in me. He was eight foot tall, and so strong he could uproot pine trees with one hand and chuck them half a mile. No horse could bear his weight, so he rode an aurochs."

"What does he have to do with this smugglers' cove?"

"His wife was a woods witch. Whenever Ser Clarence killed a man, he'd fetch his head back home and his wife would kiss it on the lips and bring it back t' life. Lords, they were, and wizards, and famous knights and pirates. One was king o' Duskendale. 

And Ser Clarence riding aurochs sounds like a Green Man.

Ser Jaremy Rykker was slain by wight, and his houses rules Duskendale.

And he keeps being associated with severed heads:

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On the wrong side," Ser Jaremy Rykker commented dryly. "I ought to know, I was there on the battlements beside him. Tywin Lannister gave us a splendid choice. Take the black, or see our heads on spikes before evenfall. No offense intended, Tyrion."

"None taken, Ser Jaremy. My father is very fond of spiked heads, especially those of people who have annoyed him in some fashion. And a face as noble as yours, well, no doubt he saw you decorating the city wall above the King's Gate. I think you would have looked very striking up there."

 

Here Jon mentions that he is a green boy = green man... 

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Othor," announced Ser Jaremy Rykker, "beyond a doubt. And this one was Jafer Flowers." He turned the corpse over with his foot, and the dead white face stared up at the overcast sky with blue, blue eyes. "They were Ben Stark's men, both of them."

My uncle's men, Jon thought numbly. He remembered how he'd pleaded to ride with them. Gods, I was such a green boy. If he had taken me, it might be me lying here …

This is actually quite ironic:

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Ser Jaremy," the Old Bear asked gruffly, "Ben Stark had six men with him when he rode from the Wall. Where are the others?"

Ser Jaremy shook his head. "Would that I knew."

 

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This man wears a hunting horn." Mormont pointed at Othor. "Must I suppose that he died without sounding it? Or have your rangers all gone deaf as well as blind?"

Ser Jaremy bristled, his face taut with anger. "No horn was blown, my lord, or my rangers would have heard it. I do not have sufficient men to mount as many patrols as I should like … and since Benjen was lost, we have stayed closer to the Wall than we were wont to do before, by your own command."

The Old Bear grunted. "Yes. Well. Be that as it may." He made an impatient gesture. "Tell me how they died."

Jafer Flowers... A green man of the Reach

And Othor, a horned wild hunt member...

Of course they'll rise as wights...

 

Quote

The Old Bear grunted. "Yes. Well. Be that as it may." He made an impatient gesture. "Tell me how they died."

Squatting beside the dead man he had named Jafer Flowers, Ser Jaremy grasped his head by the scalp. The hair came out between his fingers, brittle as straw. The knight cursed and shoved at the face with the heel of his hand. A great gash in the side of the corpse's neck opened like a mouth, crusted with dried blood. Only a few ropes of pale tendon still attached the head to the neck. "This was done with an axe."

"Aye," muttered Dywen, the old forester. "Belike the axe that Othor carried, m'lord

This sounds like Herne's legend

 

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The other wight, the one-handed thing that had once been a ranger named Jafer Flowers, had also been destroyed, cut near to pieces by a dozen swords … but not before it had slain Ser JaremyRykker and four other men. Ser Jaremy had finished the job of hacking its head off, yet had died all the same when the headless corpse pulled his own dagger from its sheath and buried it in his bowels. Strength and courage did not avail much against foemen who would not fall because they were already dead; even arms and armor offered small protection.

He's not Ser Clarence, he's doing it all the wrong way...

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They were pale and cold, with black hands and black feet and wounds that did not bleed. Yet when we took them back to Castle Black they rose in the night and killed. One slew Ser Jaremy Rykker and the other came for me, which tells me that they remember some of what they knew when they lived, but there was no human mercy left in them

Our first POV, Will, was a poacher, caught while skinnig a buckle - a green man? - and he is the first POV to die.

Btw, one of the Westerlands knights captured at Whispering Wood is called Garth Greenfield - the trees are enemies of green men?

Later he is held captive at Raventree Hall... Is this what I think it is? Garth invades Riverlands and is imprisoned in a tree?