ravenous reader Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, YOVMO said: wrt ice I think it is more than just alive. I think Ned's soul is in it in the same way that the old kings of winter had their souls in their burial swords. I feel that the magic which put it there was used accidentally when Ned's head was removed with his own sword a lot like the way that Voldemort unknowingly makes harry into a Horcrux. This is why I also feel Jaime is magically connected to Dawn. It cut him when he was knighted: Quote A Feast for Crows - Jaime I None of the devout paid Jaime any mind. They made a circuit of the sept, worshiping at each of the seven altars to honor the seven aspects of the deity. To each god they made sacrifice, to each they sang a hymn. Sweet and solemn rose their voices. Jaime closed his eyes to listen, but opened them again when he began to sway. I am more weary than I knew. It had been years since his last vigil. And I was younger then, a boy of fifteen years. He had worn no armor then, only a plain white tunic. The sept where he'd spent the night was not a third as large as any of the Great Sept's seven transepts. Jaime had laid his sword across the Warrior's knees, piled his armor at his feet, and knelt upon the rough stone floor before the altar. When dawn came his knees were raw and bloody. "All knights must bleed, Jaime," Ser Arthur Dayne had said, when he saw. "Blood is the seal of our devotion." With dawn he tapped him on the shoulder; the pale blade was so sharp that even that light touch cut through Jaime's tunic, so he bled anew. He never felt it. A boy knelt; a knight rose. The Young Lion, not the Kingslayer. But that was long ago, and the boy was dead. There's also the mummer's version: Spoiler regarding how Arthur Dayne was basically slain most ignominiously by his own sword 2 minutes ago, YOVMO said: This is a tough one. In every case where there has been a conscious being that is skinchanged the selfhood of that being recedes for the skin changer. This happens most clearly in Hodor and in Summer but also with the eagle. I suppose that a dragon is a magical creature so the rules may work differently, but aren't direwolves also magical and only recently returned to the world? In my symbolic world, it has to be a marriage of equals: the last greenseer + the last dragon annihilated together in space saving planetos! The self-sacrifice of magic for the greater good. 2 minutes ago, YOVMO said: If Bran skinchanges Drogon I think it would result in the eventual annihilation of both Bran and Drogon. I think the story has to end that way, yeah, in any eventuality. Ice and fire = water. 2 minutes ago, YOVMO said: I am on record often enough here as saying I don't think that Dragons have a role to play in the battles of the seven kingdoms and feel that they have to die once their purpose in the magical war is spent. Throwing dragons into the mix of the mortal struggles of the 7K would make for a thoroughly uninteresting story. If the dragons have to die I would think it would be in a pretty stellar way. This would be one option I could be happy about. 'Stellar' is the way I envision it! (I'm also relying on GRRM's bent for the sci fi extravaganza...) 2 minutes ago, YOVMO said: Undrogon would be way too much for me. George so reluctantly uses the dragons in the first place. An undead dragon would be just a step too far. A good thought about bringing bran to the stars and would fit in with him flying but I have the feeling that the stars have more to do with Dawn and Starfall than actual stars. I couldn't agree with you more -- 'undragon' is a cheesy phenomenon. Literal or metaphorical stars -- I'm happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 @ravenous reader no thoughts on the ice wagon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, LmL said: @ravenous reader no thoughts on the ice wagon? Very nice catch! I just don't want Drogon to be the ice wagon, just as I wouldn't want Lucifer to be tied down in the heart of summer -- i.e. incapacitated in ice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 28 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Very nice catch! I just don't want Drogon to be the ice wagon, just as I wouldn't want Lucifer to be tied down in the heart of summer -- i.e. incapacitated in ice! Icy Drogon would be the perfect black ice symbol, you have to admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 Just now, LmL said: Icy Drogon would be the perfect black ice symbol, you have to admit. What about your favourite red fire then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 That will be when wighted Drogon's corpse is finally burned for good and all, or when he collides with the comet in your Drogon Impact scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 minute ago, LmL said: That will be when wighted Drogon's corpse is finally burned for good and all, or when he collides with the comet in your Drogon Impact scenario. Much as I love 'my scenario', it's certainly saddening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 The point is, the self-sacrifice only works when both parties -- Bran and Drogon -- do so of their own free will. You can't be a hero without free will. That's not going to work if someone is wighted, coerced, raped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 If my rigorous sentimentality is correct, that means -- Bran is a 'dragon person' with 'dragon blood' and Drogon will recognise him and fly of his own free will. You can work out the 'genetics'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 20 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: If my rigorous sentimentality is correct, that means -- Bran is a 'dragon person' with 'dragon blood' and Drogon will recognise him and fly of his own free will. You can work out the 'genetics'... Bran is the burning Brand. The bad little boy struck by lightning and the lightning himself. Damn near anything could happen with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 minute ago, LmL said: Bran is the burning Brand. The bad little boy struck by lightning and the lightning himself. Damn near anything could happen with him. Bran is Azor Ahai. Do you finally believe me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 13 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Bran is Azor Ahai. Do you finally believe me? Did I ever not? I called him an Azor Ahai figure back in Tyrion Targaryen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, LmL said: Did I ever not? I called him an Azor Ahai figure back in Tyrion Targaryen OK. I've checked -- you're not lying. Better get cracking on the 'Bran-centric' episode..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 28 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: OK. I've checked -- you're not lying. Better get cracking on the 'Bran-centric' episode..! It's like a whack-a-mole over heremail with trying to address different topics. There are at least 5 I want to do right now. But like I said, the most Bran stuff I have done is in that episode, and there will be some more in the next one. I have a feeling he's going to come out in drips and drabs,but he'll be in a lot of upcoming epjsodes as I continue to talk about greenseers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, LmL said: It's like a whack-a-mole over heremail with trying to address different topics. There are at least 5 I want to do right now. But like I said, the most Bran stuff I have done is in that episode, and there will be some more in the next one. I have a feeling he's going to come out in drips and drabs,but he'll be in a lot of upcoming epjsodes as I continue to talk about greenseers. 'dribs and drabs'...He is the main character! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: 'dribs and drabs'...He is the main character! That's not really what determines whether or not I do a character centric episode. I never did a Jon centric episode or a Dany centric episode and won't either, because I talk about them all the time. I am going to be talking about Bran in the same way, but his symbolism is all about AA being a greenseer and I had to work my way to that idea before I could start using Bran scenes. I did a Tyrion stand alone because I hadn't talked about him at all somehow, and as soon as I looked into his monkey demon stuff and followed the gargoyle symbolism, I realized I had a full episode. Another person I have been side-stepping is Arya, who I think will make for the good center or an episode about death gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiemal Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Ariel's Song from The Tempest is a big one for me, that I've mentioned frequently elsewhere. I've been pondering T.S. Eliot a fair amount lately- Melisandre at the Fire Sermon, Maggie the Frog as Madam Sosostris, Steffan as Phlebas, Stannis Prufrockishly (it is a word now) not daring to eat a peach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 20 minutes ago, hiemal said: Ariel's Song from The Tempest is a big one for me, that I've mentioned frequently elsewhere. I've been pondering T.S. Eliot a fair amount lately- Melisandre at the Fire Sermon, Maggie the Frog as Madam Sosostris, Steffan as Phlebas, Stannis Prufrockishly (it is a word now) not daring to eat a peach... Hi @hiemal -- Welcome! Please could you quote the relevant poems and/or sections from the poems you referenced? That would help readers of the thread follow along! P.S. I've meant to tell you for a while; sorry for hijacking your 'nennymoan' thread -- but many thanks for introducing me to those nennymoans...You piqued my imagination, and I've never looked back (well, except to reference that thread)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiemal Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 12 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Hi @hiemal -- Welcome! Please could you quote the relevant poems and/or sections from the poems you referenced? That would help readers of the thread follow along! P.S. I've meant to tell you for a while; sorry for hijacking your 'nennymoan' thread -- but many thanks for introducing me to those nennymoans...You piqued my imagination, and I've never looked back (well, except to reference that thread)! No such thing, my friend- I prefer to think of it as "organic expansion". William Shakespeare (1564-1616) from The Tempest Ariel's Song Come unto these yellow sands, And then take hands: Curtsied when you have, and kiss'd The wild waves whist, Foot it featly here and there; And, sweet sprites, the burthen bear. Hark, hark! Bow-wow. The watch-dogs bark. Bow-wow. Hark, hark! I hear The strain of strutting chanticleer Cry, Cock-a-diddle-dow. Full fathom five thy father lies; Of his bones are coral made; Those are pearls that were his eyes: Nothing of him that doth fade, But doth suffer a sea-change Into something rich and strange. Sea-nymphs hourly ring his knell: Ding-dong. Hark! now I hear them—Ding-dong, bell. The Eliot stuff is pretty tongue in cheek- although I did find fascinating mythic similarities the only one that does more than tickle is the peach bit: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock ...Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach? I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think that they will sing to me. 125 I have seen them riding seaward on the waves Combing the white hair of the waves blown back When the wind blows the water white and black. We have lingered in the chambers of the sea By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown 130 Till human voices wake us, and we drown. Which brought me back to: The Wasteland ... Madame Sosostris, famous clairvoyante, Had a bad cold, nevertheless Is known to be the wisest woman in Europe, 45 With a wicked pack of cards. Here, said she, Is your card, the drowned Phoenician Sailor, (Those are pearls that were his eyes. Look!) Here is Belladonna, the Lady of the Rocks, The lady of situations. 50 Here is the man with three staves, and here the Wheel, And here is the one-eyed merchant, and this card, Which is blank, is something he carries on his back, Which I am forbidden to see. I do not find The Hanged Man. Fear death by water. 55 I see crowds of people, walking round in a ring. Thank you. If you see dear Mrs. Equitone, Tell her I bring the horoscope myself: One must be so careful these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 Just now, hiemal said: No such thing, my friend- I prefer to think of it as "organic expansion". Ha ha -- 'expansion' was indeed the operative word! (I'll confess I was gently reprimanded at the time by @LmL, who rather ironically referred to my brazen and voluble outpouring as 'pulling an LmL...'! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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