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How will LF meet his end?


aryagonnakill#2

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@Nevets

The problem is that Sansa has a very good reason to assume that she caused her family's downfall and her father's death. After all, she told Cersei about Ned's plans, and she knows that.

She might find out about Littlefinger's own role in the coup (but it is difficult to imagine how considering that she doesn't know anything about that yet despite the fact that she's around the man for quite some time by now) and even if she did Littlefinger certainly could spin his role in the story as him just doing whatever he needed to do to survive. His sheen is actually cleaner than hers in that regard because he only betrayed some guy whereas Sansa betrayed her own lord father to his enemies.

By that time Sansa might already be so receptive to Littlefinger's own mindset that abandoning a lost cause (Ned's idea to crown Stannis) or betraying some moron would be something she could see herself doing in Littlefinger's situation.

If Sansa found out that Littlefinger actually sabotaged Cersei's plans to pardon her father and manipulated Joffrey into executing her father she certainly should be cross with him. But how could she learn that? Only Slynt, Joff, and Payne should know about that.

She got some pieces from Lysa's mad ramblings. Perhaps she realized that Lysa had murdered her lord husband but she doesn't know anything about the letter Catelyn received nor the impact it had on the political events in AGoT. We, the readers, realized what that meant but Sansa cannot reach the same conclusions because she doesn't have the same information we got in AGoT through multiple POVs.

Sansa is also already complicit in the slow poisoning of Lord Robert Arryn. She fed sweetsleep to him on multiple occasions, and there was no hint in AFfC that Littlefinger effectively telling her that they were killing him caused her any distress. Robert is a weak child, and she certainly shares Littlefinger's opinion that the boy will die eventually. Them taking matters in their own hands and ensuring that they profit from his eventual death by setting the date is profitable for all people involved.

Littlefinger was certainly responsible for Jeyne's training yet it is not very likely that Sansa is going to learn anything about that in the foreseeable future. She doesn't know that 'Arya' is Jeyne Poole nor is she likely to meet and interact with Jeyne in the future. And Littlefinger's role in all that should have been very minor. He would have delivered Jeyne to the people running his brothel. He wouldn't have been personally involved in any of that and could always claim he had no idea what exactly they were doing to her, etc.

Catelyn, on the other hand, is in an ideal position to figure out the depth of Littlefinger's betrayal. She interacted with him a lot in AGoT, nearly figured out that Lysa may have had a motive in murdering her husband, and she would have heard - after her resurrection - that her sister married Petyr Baelish, the new Lord of Harrenhal, only to die a sudden death shortly thereafter.

Her picture of Littlefinger should be pretty complete, especially after she talks to Jaime in the beginning of TWoW.

Some of the Lords of the Vale might have realized who Sansa is - Myranda most likely has - yet they actually have to thank Littlefinger for saving her life, not to mention that Sansa is both complicit in the murder of Lysa Arryn as well as indebted to Littlefinger for saving her life from her mad aunt.

Sansa certainly doesn't love Littlefinger, and most likely never will, but this doesn't mean she is going to betray him because that's what we want to read. It is much more likely that she is going to mess with his head by exploiting his feelings for her so that he does what she wants him to do or gets what she wants from him.

That's how Sansa is dangerous for Littlefinger, not because she is likely to betray him. The idea that she trusts any of the Lords of the Vale more than she does trust Littlefinger isn't very convincing to me. Littlefinger is the devil she knows and he actually trains her in political intrigue. And no nobleman or noblewoman in the Vale plays in the same league as he does.

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15 hours ago, Nevets said:

 He had a central role in her family's destruction.  It's possible something about this could come out.  He also almost certainly is responsible for Jeyne Poole's abuse before sending her to marry Ramsay.  There is also the likelihood that he has planned the murders of Robert Arryn and/or Harry the Heir.  Should she discover When she discovers this, there could be conflict between them.

I believe it is a narrative imperative that she finds out.

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1 minute ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

If the Mad Mouse truly works for Varys he could potentially inform Sansa of some of LF's maneuvers.  Lothor Brune and Sr. Kettleblack may be aware of many of the things he has done as well.

That certainly is possible. The question - why would Oswell and Lothor betray Littlefinger? And why should Sansa believe them? What proof could they offer? There is always the chance of her overhearing stuff she isn't supposed to hear, etc. But why should Brune/Kettleblack talk to Petyr about Ned's execution? And why should Littlefinger even tell them about such delicate matters? He usually only tells people what they need to know?

Kettleblack and Brune (and Sansa, too, in a sense) profit from working with Littlefinger. They are only likely to turn against him in a situation where other options look more profitable. And considering their humble origins such situations are still light years away. Not to mention that these people know Littlefinger much better than Sansa. They most likely also know the price of betrayal.

I consider it pretty likely that the Mad Mouse is a former mouse in Varys and Illyrio's service but I doubt that he is going to actually trying to separate Sansa from Littlefinger or actively trying to drive a wedge between these two. Aegon has come to Westeros without Daenerys and her dragons. He needs all the help he can get. Varys would want somebody to manipulate events in the Vale so that the Lords of the Vale eventually declare for Aegon and come to his aid.

With Littlefinger right now being the de facto ruler of the Vale such a goal could be very easily accomplished by influencing Littlefinger's own decision-making process through Sansa rather than by destabilizing the political situation there which could result in Aegon not getting help in time.

Alayne's last AFfC chapter showed that Littlefinger actually wants to please Sansa. That is the point of his Winterfell plan. And that's a weakness that could be exploited. If Sansa decided that she wants to be the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms at Aegon's side then Littlefinger most likely would try to realize that dream for her - especially if she also made it clear that she would be nice to her 'daddy' in such a setting.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

That certainly is possible. The question - why would Oswell and Lothor betray Littlefinger? And why should Sansa believe them? What proof could they offer? There is always the chance of her overhearing stuff she isn't supposed to hear, etc. But why should Brune/Kettleblack talk to Petyr about Ned's execution? And why should Littlefinger even tell them about such delicate matters? He usually only tells people what they need to know?

Kettleblack and Brune (and Sansa, too, in a sense) profit from working with Littlefinger. They are only likely to turn against him in a situation where other options look more profitable. And considering their humble origins such situations are still light years away. Not to mention that these people know Littlefinger much better than Sansa. They most likely also know the price of betrayal.

I consider it pretty likely that the Mad Mouse is a former mouse in Varys and Illyrio's service but I doubt that he is going to actually trying to separate Sansa from Littlefinger or actively trying to drive a wedge between these two. Aegon has come to Westeros without Daenerys and her dragons. He needs all the help he can get. Varys would want somebody to manipulate events in the Vale so that the Lords of the Vale eventually declare for Aegon and come to his aid.

With Littlefinger right now being the de facto ruler of the Vale such a goal could be very easily accomplished by influencing Littlefinger's own decision-making process through Sansa rather than by destabilizing the political situation there which could result in Aegon not getting help in time.

Alayne's last AFfC chapter showed that Littlefinger actually wants to please Sansa. That is the point of his Winterfell plan. And that's a weakness that could be exploited. If Sansa decided that she wants to be the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms at Aegon's side then Littlefinger most likely would try to realize that dream for her - especially if she also made it clear that she would be nice to her 'daddy' in such a setting.

All 3 of Kettleblacks sons are imprisoned and I suspect about to die against Robert Strong.  It was LF who sent them to KL.  Lothor Brune is in love with Mya, and Sansa knows it.  She also knows how Mya is feeling with regards to Michael Redfort.  The right word in her ear could send her in Lothors direction, perhaps she would give him her favor for the melee.

While I might not know all the details, I don't see how the story could really proceed in any other direction.  LF has to fall, and Sansa has to at least play a part.  In both her last chapter in Feast and the sample chapter from Winds Sansa's inner thoughts are not really shown.  Observations sure, but with regards to LF we don't get her real feelings on the situation.  I suspect she is farther along than we know.

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3 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

All 3 of Kettleblacks sons are imprisoned and I suspect about to die against Robert Strong.  It was LF who sent them to KL.  Lothor Brune is in love with Mya, and Sansa knows it.  She also knows how Mya is feeling with regards to Michael Redfort.  The right word in her ear could send her in Lothors direction, perhaps she would give him her favor for the melee.

Oswell is not likely going to blame Littlefinger for any of that. He wasn't there, and he didn't tell any of the Kettleblacks to involve themselves in Cersei's intrigues.

Lothor might be grateful to Sansa if she helped him to arrange an affair with Mya. But do you really think he'll forget his loyalty to Littlefinger over this?

3 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

While I might not know all the details, I don't see how the story could really proceed in any other direction.  LF has to fall, and Sansa has to at least play a part.  In both her last chapter in Feast and the sample chapter from Winds Sansa's inner thoughts are not really shown.  Observations sure, but with regards to LF we don't get her real feelings on the situation.  I suspect she is farther along than we know.

I'm not sure Littlefinger has to fall yet. I'm pretty sure he won't end up on the throne in the end but while we have no clue where exactly Sansa's story is going to go we have also no clue how Littlefinger is going to go down.

Insisting that Sansa has to destroy Littlefinger to come into her own is in the same category as insisting that Arya has to destroy the Faceless Men to leave them or Bran has to kill Bloodraven to take his place. Those are possibilities but there are many others we should also consider. Stannis and the Boltons might have their last confrontation near/at Winterfell or they might both live to fight again later during the war. We simply don't know what's going to happen yet.

Sansa could just leave Littlefinger at one point in the future, or they might be separated. I think the majority of the TWoW Sansa plot will see her work with Littlefinger simply because George didn't yet set up any alternative for her. Any scenario I see where she reveals herself to other people in the Vale would put her in a weaker position.

I'm also not sure that Littlefinger's downfall will be over some backwater Vale affair. He is one of the main antagonists of the series and should meet actually be entangled in something big when he falls, something connected to the Iron Throne and the domination of Westeros.

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2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Oswell is not likely going to blame Littlefinger for any of that. He wasn't there, and he didn't tell any of the Kettleblacks to involve themselves in Cersei's intrigues.

Lothor might be grateful to Sansa if she helped him to arrange an affair with Mya. But do you really think he'll forget his loyalty to Littlefinger over this?

I'm not sure Littlefinger has to fall yet. I'm pretty sure he won't end up on the throne in the end but while we have no clue where exactly Sansa's story is going to go we have also no clue how Littlefinger is going to go down.

Insisting that Sansa has to destroy Littlefinger to come into her own is in the same category as insisting that Arya has to destroy the Faceless Men to leave them or Bran has to kill Bloodraven to take his place. Those are possibilities but there are many others we should also consider. Stannis and the Boltons might have their last confrontation near/at Winterfell or they might both live to fight again later during the war. We simply don't know what's going to happen yet.

Sansa could just leave Littlefinger at one point in the future, or they might be separated. I think the majority of the TWoW Sansa plot will see her work with Littlefinger simply because George didn't yet set up any alternative for her. Any scenario I see where she reveals herself to other people in the Vale would put her in a weaker position.

I'm also not sure that Littlefinger's downfall will be over some backwater Vale affair. He is one of the main antagonists of the series and should meet actually be entangled in something big when he falls, something connected to the Iron Throne and the domination of Westeros.

You make a good point at the end there, but I have to disagree with the beginning and middle. 

LF sent Oswells 3 sons to KL, sure they had a choice, and sure LF didn't arrest them himself, but George bush didn't bomb the twin towers, and Obama didn't raise the prices of most prescription drugs, both took the blame though.  I'm no parent but I have to believe Oswell is going to be fucking pissed at how things are working out.  His sons getting knighted seem to be his biggest reward for serving LF so far, if LF cannot offer some help in that matter, I have to imagine he will look for someone who could.  I'm not suggesting that person is Sansa, I'm simply suggesting that LF's pawns are going to start developing minds of their own just as LF tells Sansa they sometimes do.

Lothor wouldn't have reason to tells Sansa about stuff directly, but LF collected info by having his whores get people to talk after sex, it has been a common tactic in the real world also.  If Lothor and Mya do shack up he could spill something to Mya, or if it ever comes down to a LF vs Sansa situation I think it would be a very difficult decision for Lothor to make, love is a very powerful motivator.  I met my fiancé on a Contiki trip and recently saw another company bashing them and got seriously angry and even called Contiki to tell them about it because I literally love the company for bringing us together.

I also think each of the Stark siblings situations are a little different and their training and "graduation" doesn't necessarily have to follow the exact same path.  I believe Arya will ultimately reject the FM, though not destroy them.  Likewise I think Bran will leave the cave, possibly over BR's objections.  I also think that Bran will not really be on board with BR's the ends justify the means style as I think he will remember his fathers honor.  Sansa on the other hand cannot simply reject LF, her situation is different. If she continues to follow LF she will be forced into yet another betrothal/marriage she does not want, I believe she has successfully analyzed Harry the heir and come to an accurate conclusion about him.  I do not see her letting that happen to herself yet again, not when she can do something about it this time.  The Vale lords have no reason to hate or even dislike Sansa.  With the Tyrell Lannister alliance crumbling and Aegons power rising they will have no real reason to fear the Iron Throne retaliating against them harboring her. 

As long as Robert Aryn is still lord of the Eyrie and Vale, she in fact does have a protector with significant power.  Say hypothetically Sansa does manage to poison LF with the strangler and reveals her identity.  She then tells Robert who she is and why she has done what she did and that she cares for him greatly.  I can only imagine that the next few events would be Bronze Yhon becoming his protector and Sansa being offered the safety of the Gates of the Moon indefinitely. 

Is suspect the upcoming tourney is going to throw us all off somehow, but I do truly believe that this time Sansa will profit from the chaos not LF.

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2 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

LF sent Oswells 3 sons to KL, sure they had a choice, and sure LF didn't arrest them himself, but George bush didn't bomb the twin towers, and Obama didn't raise the prices of most prescription drugs, both took the blame though.  I'm no parent but I have to believe Oswell is going to be fucking pissed at how things are working out.  His sons getting knighted seem to be his biggest reward for serving LF so far, if LF cannot offer some help in that matter, I have to imagine he will look for someone who could.  I'm not suggesting that person is Sansa, I'm simply suggesting that LF's pawns are going to start developing minds of their own just as LF tells Sansa they sometimes do.

Well, we don't really know whether Oswell Kettleblack gives a damn about those three sons of his. Could be - or not. We have to wait and see.

However, we should also keep in mind that the fate of the Kettleblacks isn't clear yet. Ser Kevan threw Osmund and Osfryd into the dungeons after he arrived in the city but Ser Kevan is dead now. And Osney did not yet face Ser Robert in single combat, either. Much and more could still happen in the city.

2 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Lothor wouldn't have reason to tells Sansa about stuff directly, but LF collected info by having his whores get people to talk after sex, it has been a common tactic in the real world also.  If Lothor and Mya do shack up he could spill something to Mya, or if it ever comes down to a LF vs Sansa situation I think it would be a very difficult decision for Lothor to make, love is a very powerful motivator.  I met my fiancé on a Contiki trip and recently saw another company bashing them and got seriously angry and even called Contiki to tell them about it because I literally love the company for bringing us together.

It has never been confirmed that Littlefinger is an information broker and spymaster in the books. He is ambitious and a financial genius and he invests in brothels. That's it.

And I'm also not sure why Mya should end up in team Sansa. Why not in team Brune-Littlefinger?

2 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I also think each of the Stark siblings situations are a little different and their training and "graduation" doesn't necessarily have to follow the exact same path.  I believe Arya will ultimately reject the FM, though not destroy them. 

Sure, that would have been a rather difficult task.

2 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Likewise I think Bran will leave the cave, possibly over BR's objections.

I'm more inclined that Bran will remain there and that there is actually going to be a power struggle/conflict between Bran and Bloodraven/the Children once Bran learns more about the past and their previous actions. It might even be that Bran becomes darker than Bloodraven and the Children once he realizes that they have to remove the gloves if they want to stand a chance against the Others.

2 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I also think that Bran will not really be on board with BR's the ends justify the means style as I think he will remember his fathers honor. 

Ned's honor is completely out of place when the survival of mankind is at stake. Compared to Brandon's ultimate knowledge and power Ned Stark should like an infant. His values and world view is not going to help Bran to deal with what lies ahead of him. Nobody can prepare him for that-

2 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Sansa on the other hand cannot simply reject LF, her situation is different. If she continues to follow LF she will be forced into yet another betrothal/marriage she does not want, I believe she has successfully analyzed Harry the heir and come to an accurate conclusion about him.  I do not see her letting that happen to herself yet again, not when she can do something about it this time.  The Vale lords have no reason to hate or even dislike Sansa.  With the Tyrell Lannister alliance crumbling and Aegons power rising they will have no real reason to fear the Iron Throne retaliating against them harboring her. 

We don't know where the Harry plot is heading. Aegon's arrival should affect the political landscape quite severely. Sansa's problem right now is that the Iron Throne is controlled by Cersei and the Tyrells and they think/claim she was involved in the murder of Joffrey. That's why she has to hide.

But with Aegon as an alternative the Vale could finally declare for a king and Sansa might no longer be forced to hide. She is going to see that opportunity, and I'm pretty sure she will try push Littlefinger, Harry, and anybody she interacts with in that direction. After all, she could even avenge herself on Cersei and the Tyrells that way. And she might actually have a desire to do so.

2 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

As long as Robert Aryn is still lord of the Eyrie and Vale, she in fact does have a protector with significant power.  Say hypothetically Sansa does manage to poison LF with the strangler and reveals her identity.  She then tells Robert who she is and why she has done what she did and that she cares for him greatly.  I can only imagine that the next few events would be Bronze Yhon becoming his protector and Sansa being offered the safety of the Gates of the Moon indefinitely. 

Is suspect the upcoming tourney is going to throw us all off somehow, but I do truly believe that this time Sansa will profit from the chaos not LF.

Well, that would essentially be the end of Sansa's story. I don't see that coming so soon.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 01/01/2017 at 6:18 PM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

It only seems obvious because of all the foreshadowing. If you read the books and missed all the foreshadowing. Or didn't have access to internet forums with huge quantities of pooled analysis. I'm willing to bet it isn't really that obvious.

Oh, I'm totally dense when it comes to foreshadowing, and I thought this before I'd read stuff online.

My view isn't so much based on the foreshadowing as the characters. Cat, and now Sansa, has been Littlefinger's one weakness. He's brilliantly smart and totally amoral, this obsession, infactuation, whatever, seems like his one weakness. And how do you take down the big bad? By exploiting his one weakness.

These books don't generally work like that. It seems like Sansa is more the person we're supposed to think will bring him down. 

 

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LF will be the cream that rises to the top. Once the Lannisters are dead and buried, LF will adopt his true name - Lord Petyr Reyne :)

He won't be King, he just wants his ancestral lands back and any mention of Lannisters scrubbed from the history books. All the gold he squirrelled away while working for King Bob, plus his networks and influences, will make him invaluable to whoever does end up ruling the 7K.

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On 1/3/2017 at 10:58 AM, Lord Varys said:

Insisting that Sansa has to destroy Littlefinger to come into her own is in the same category as insisting that Arya has to destroy the Faceless Men to leave them or Bran has to kill Bloodraven to take his place. Those are possibilities but there are many others we should also consider. Stannis and the Boltons might have their last confrontation near/at Winterfell or they might both live to fight again later during the war. We simply don't know what's going to happen yet.

 Bad logic. Bloodraven and Faceless Men are not Bran and Arya's enemies. Sansa knows LF is using her, even if she isn't 100% certain how. If she got a whiff of LF being involved in Ned's downfall, she'd believe it, because she knows LF to be that type of dude.

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28 minutes ago, HaeSuse said:

 Bad logic. Bloodraven and Faceless Men are not Bran and Arya's enemies. Sansa knows LF is using her, even if she isn't 100% certain how. If she got a whiff of LF being involved in Ned's downfall, she'd believe it, because she knows LF to be that type of dude.

Littlefinger is also not Sansa's enemies. And whether Bloodraven or the Faceless Men are Bran's friends remains to be seen. Bloodraven wants Bran because of his abilities and the Faceless Men only care about Arya as long as she continues to play their game.

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I always thought it will be undramatic the flux or something. Seems to balance out that he wants to make a huge splash just to die in such a lame way would be just. But with Season 7 looming and the spoilers surrounding it who knows. 

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22 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Littlefinger is also not Sansa's enemies. And whether Bloodraven or the Faceless Men are Bran's friends remains to be seen. Bloodraven wants Bran because of his abilities and the Faceless Men only care about Arya as long as she continues to play their game.

Fine and well, but it doesn't matter whether or not the people/groups ARE enemies, only how they are perceived by the players. So, Arya and Bran think they are pursuing their own needs, desires, lives (finally, after breaking the Stark yoke and going free for so long). Sansa feels like nothing but a pawn, and knows LF to be who she belongs to in the game. 

Bran has no idea of "maybe I've got to KILL bloodraven to BECOME a tree-god!". Arya has no thoughts of "you know, one day, I'll have to kill all the members of this group to become a real killer myself!". Sansa, on the other hand, DISTINCTLY knows that people get killed in this game, and it could be her, it could be LF, and either of them might end up being the other's demise. There is a true power struggle there. Not so much with your 2 comparisons.

 

It's still a bad analogy.

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47 minutes ago, HaeSuse said:

Fine and well, but it doesn't matter whether or not the people/groups ARE enemies, only how they are perceived by the players. So, Arya and Bran think they are pursuing their own needs, desires, lives (finally, after breaking the Stark yoke and going free for so long). Sansa feels like nothing but a pawn, and knows LF to be who she belongs to in the game.

Sansa is in a better position than she was when she was a Lannister pawn. There are no clear hints that she plans to actually kill Littlefinger.

47 minutes ago, HaeSuse said:

Bran has no idea of "maybe I've got to KILL bloodraven to BECOME a tree-god!". Arya has no thoughts of "you know, one day, I'll have to kill all the members of this group to become a real killer myself!". Sansa, on the other hand, DISTINCTLY knows that people get killed in this game, and it could be her, it could be LF, and either of them might end up being the other's demise. There is a true power struggle there. Not so much with your 2 comparisons.

Arya and Bran (and Sansa, neither) don't yet know what their mentors are all about in the end, or what they want them to do at a certain point in the future. That's where there will be conflict, and in Arya's and Bran's case we can be reasonably sure that their mentors won't allow them to get away alive if they have reached a point where they know too much.

The same certainly also goes for Sansa and Littlefinger.

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47 minutes ago, HaeSuse said:

Fine and well, but it doesn't matter whether or not the people/groups ARE enemies, only how they are perceived by the players. So, Arya and Bran think they are pursuing their own needs, desires, lives (finally, after breaking the Stark yoke and going free for so long). Sansa feels like nothing but a pawn, and knows LF to be who she belongs to in the game.

Sansa is in a better position than she was when she was a Lannister pawn. There are no clear hints that she plans to actually kill Littlefinger.

47 minutes ago, HaeSuse said:

Bran has no idea of "maybe I've got to KILL bloodraven to BECOME a tree-god!". Arya has no thoughts of "you know, one day, I'll have to kill all the members of this group to become a real killer myself!". Sansa, on the other hand, DISTINCTLY knows that people get killed in this game, and it could be her, it could be LF, and either of them might end up being the other's demise. There is a true power struggle there. Not so much with your 2 comparisons.

Arya and Bran (and Sansa, neither) don't yet know what their mentors are all about in the end, or what they want them to do at a certain point in the future. That's where there will be conflict, and in Arya's and Bran's case we can be reasonably sure that their mentors won't allow them to get away alive if they have reached a point where they know too much.

The same certainly also goes for Sansa and Littlefinger.

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 Petyr teased her with a little smile. "In the game of thrones, even the humblest pieces can have wills of their own. Sometimes they refuse to make the moves you've planned for them.

I think this right here will be his downfall in the form of Sweet Robin. So much scheming and plotting has been put in to kill Sweetrobin but that little spoiled brat could kill LF with a word. IMO it would have a good layer of poetic justice that LF dies essentially to a last name. 

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One of the nice parts about the show having deviated from the books is that it isn't really a spoiler. Show Sansa is a composite of several book characters. We have been all but told that she is going to off Littlefinger in the show.

The books are quite likely different. Book Sansa isn't an important character at all. I think it rather more likely Arya does him in. After all fake Arya gives her more cause against him than Sansa.

Who does him in is rather less interesting than when and why. Littlefinger's plot arc suggests that he will achieve his goal of the iron throne. I expect he will be killed on the throne itself and for the throne. Not to tule, for the throne itself. Because the throne is made from dragon forged steel and that makes the steel white walker kryptonite.

Which means that LF will die late on. Certainly after the wall falls.

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