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The Marquis de Leech

Tolkien 2.0

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8 hours ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

There is now actually a movement to make Tolkien a Saint(!):

http://file770.com/?p=38490

According to the article, you don't need miracles to get to the first two levels (Servus Dei, and Venerable), whereas you need one to get to Blessed, and two to get full Sainthood.

The funny thing - I actually think you have a better case for Tolkien's mother than Tolkien himself. Not in terms of miracles, but rather the martyrdom aspect. I think a sainthood discussion of Tolkien himself would become too heavily tied up with his literary works, rather than the man behind them - valuing Things more than People, so to speak.

Tolkien was a devout Roman Catholic but this is silly.  

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36 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Tolkien was a devout Roman Catholic but this is silly.  

Agreed. Simply being well-known and devout isn't enough for sainthood.

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44 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

Agreed. Simply being well-known and devout isn't enough for sainthood.

Sainthood should be about a great deal more than mere notoriety or popularity.  I love Tolkien and his works but this is really weak sauce from those advocating it.

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2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Tolkien was a devout Roman Catholic but this is silly.  

I'm sure he'd have been embarrassed by it.

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1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Sainthood should be about a great deal more than mere notoriety or popularity.  I love Tolkien and his works but this is really weak sauce from those advocating it.

I understand that you are Greek Orthodox, and was intrigued to see that Theodora is a saint.

To go from being a prostitute, to co-ruler of the Roman Empire, to sainthood reads like a far-fetched novel.

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7 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I understand that you are Greek Orthodox, and was intrigued to see that Theodora is a saint.

To go from being a prostitute, to co-ruler of the Roman Empire, to sainthood reads like a far-fetched novel.

Repentance my friend.  Repentance.  :)  If you want to read about an unusual Orthodox Saint read about Saint Mary of Egypt:

https://oca.org/saints/lives/2015/04/01/100963-venerable-mary-of-egypt

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11 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Repentance my friend.  Repentance.  :)  If you want to read about an unusual Orthodox Saint read about Saint Mary of Egypt:

https://oca.org/saints/lives/2015/04/01/100963-venerable-mary-of-egypt

Reading some Byzantine history, I see that a lot of clergy wanted to make Irene of Athens a saint, for her role in restoring the veneration of icons, were it not for the fact that she had her son's eyes put out so brutally that he died within a few days (she wasn't exactly overflowing with maternal sentiment.)

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There is more precedence in the gospels for whores (and even tax collectors) becoming followers of Christ than for co-rulers of Empires...

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14 minutes ago, Jo498 said:

There is more precedence in the gospels for whores (and even tax collectors) becoming followers of Christ than for co-rulers of Empires...

But, I can think of no other example of someone having been all three.

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I am actually reading Lord of the Rings for the first time right now. My introduction to fantasy novels was actually the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant

I am enjoying it. I am near the end of Fellowship now. As I have seen the films, I am unsure if I will read Two Towers straight after or read something else in between, maybe Mordants Need as I have never read it.

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40 minutes ago, The Prince of Newcastle said:

I am actually reading Lord of the Rings for the first time right now. My introduction to fantasy novels was actually the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant

I am enjoying it. I am near the end of Fellowship now. As I have seen the films, I am unsure if I will read Two Towers straight after or read something else in between, maybe Mordants Need as I have never read it.

I enjoyed Mordant's Need, but it desperately needs a map.

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7 hours ago, The Prince of Newcastle said:

I am actually reading Lord of the Rings for the first time right now. My introduction to fantasy novels was actually the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant

I am enjoying it. I am near the end of Fellowship now. As I have seen the films, I am unsure if I will read Two Towers straight after or read something else in between, maybe Mordants Need as I have never read it.

LOTR really benefits from just reading them all straight through, as the Two Towers picks up directly where Fellowship leaves off, and so on. (Almost like it's supposed to be one long novel... :) ) I also think you get a lot more from the books than you ever could from the movies. The departures from the source material, both themeatically and substantive content become more apparent in each subsequent film. For the much worse imo but others disagree...

6 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I enjoyed Mordant's Need, but it desperately needs a map.

Absolutely. I had a very hard time visualising how the land was laid out for this.

Also, Prince of Newcastle, I would advise reading the two Mordant's Need books back to back as well, as they work better as a duology than on their own strengths. As you have read Thomas Covenant, also worth noting this story in significantly lighter in tone 

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No issue with Tolkien becoming a saint. It is not that any of the others worked any miracles, did they?

But, of course, his reputation would be tarnished by that. Who wants to be a colleague of Pius XII and Josemariá Escrivá?

On 26.10.2017 at 5:07 PM, The Prince of Newcastle said:

I am enjoying it. I am near the end of Fellowship now. As I have seen the films, I am unsure if I will read Two Towers straight after or read something else in between, maybe Mordants Need as I have never read it.

It is one big novel which is occasionally published in three volumes. Thus it is best to read it through without making a break.

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On 26/10/2017 at 4:48 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I enjoyed Mordant's Need, but it desperately needs a map.

There's one here which seems reasonable.

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A tv series might cheapen the tolkien-LOTR legacy - there were 3 epic books, 3 epic films, a beginning,middle,end that gives you an uplift, might even make you a lifetime fan. the tolkien grandeur, high adventure, philosophy, morality may be lost or hopelessly watered down in a 8 to 10 pt mini series. there are enough talented actors,director,writers,producers to put out something of quality. but tv adventure can be repetitive, formula driven, cliched and i would hate to see that sully the great JRR's contributions.

if i saw a producer name i trusted, michael hirst (hbo, the tudors) or game of thrones benioff and weiss, i would feel more confident. the GOT guys might be the most intriguing duo. imho GOT, LOTR seem to mirror each other and also contrast wildly like looking at your doppelganger, light side, dark side. we will see.

TDAXE. MAE GOVANNEN

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I've always been fascinated by the change of the Catholic Church from "important people we like" to "praying to this person works miracles."

So, yes, you could pray to Tolkien to intercede with god and if three miracles happen then he could be a Catholic Saint.

All people in Heaven are after all.

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14 hours ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

Christopher Tolkien has resigned from the Estate. This potentially opens the adaptive floodgates.

I'm sure we will see Feanor pez dispensors soon.  :(

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