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Vikings XI: Aelle's Anaconda don't want none unless you got buns hun [SPOILERS]

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1 hour ago, generalzod said:

By the way, they beheaded a Muslim Imam in a mosque, raped dozens of Muslim women, and killed dozens of Muslims in a bazaar.

 

is the whiny complaint that Floki didn't kill them, or all those Muslims literally needed to be killed inside a Mosque.  The Vikings made the Muslims their bitches, literally and figuratively so I'm not sure where the complaints are beyond wanting to see a higher Muslim body count.

umm, have you actually read people's complaints about those scenes? Or are you just seeing what you want to see, and ignoring everything else?

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There were two guards in the Harem.

did I imagine it or were there guys with weapons in the bazaar they killed that were sentries?

what other complaints re the Spain raid?  (Apologies I'm doing this on the run as I travel so I will try and reread the typical whining and complaints that Hirst didn't write it to someone's exact view of history or personal dramaturgical needs but somehow ratings were up this week and didn't crater during the raid scenes...) 

Edited by generalzod

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1 hour ago, Zorral said:

B- and lower from A.V. Club etc. for this ep.  Just sayin . . . . :fencing: :D :cheers:

Ok, I accept your AV ranking.  So then when they give it an episode an A, A- or a B+ you have to tout it as great? 

B- is still not a C.  And they must have hated the middle of the  episode because the ending was a fucking A+ and Ivar an A . 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.avclub.com/amp/247858

 

He gave 4-16 a B- but it's far from a bad review... The community gave it a B+.

 

Heres his reviews this season:

411  B+

412. B-

413.  B+

414.   B+

415   B+ (And he got reamed in the talkback for not giving it an A) 

416    B-

 

Edited by generalzod

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2 hours ago, generalzod said:

There were two guards in the Harem.

did I imagine it or were there guys with weapons in the bazaar they killed that were sentries?

what other complaints re the Spain raid?  (Apologies I'm doing this on the run as I travel so I will try and reread the typical whining and complaints that Hirst didn't write it to someone's exact view of history or personal dramaturgical needs but somehow ratings were up this week and didn't crater during the raid scenes...) 

Here is a summary of some of the complaints:

  • Yes, there were some guys with swords, but those were either merchant guards, since they were in the bazaar, or people who owned weapons; I'm talking about sentries; there was no one on the docks when the vikings landed, no one in any tower to give warning etc. And there was the eunuch in the harem that Bjorn kills and the guy who killed himself who may or may not have been a guard - basically the bazaar raid scene was quite cheaply and lazily written - remember in seasons 1&2 when the vikings raided places in England? People saw them coming, there were sentries, but the idea was that the vikings were so much better, that the defenders stood no chance
  • There was also the question of why would the bazaar be so active at night; maybe it was Ramadan, as it was mentioned above
  • Floki's sudden "lost" conversation which leads to him being intrigued by the praying Muslims - what happened to the Floki who hated anything that wasn't devoted to the Norse gods? I personally didn't hate that the Muslims continued to pray as their imam was slaughtered, just because I equated that to Christians who could display such behavior, but others didn't see it that way
  • Helga's part also felt very sudden, but I personally don't care about that little plot at this point; going by Hirst's treatment of children who don't have a place in history, I suspect that girl will end up dead in a ditch somewhere, too
  • I liked the Odin scene, even if less fantasy stuff in this show is better, but pliskin made a good point that here we have Hirst criticizing GoT for the fantasy stuff, but it's okay when he does it.
  • Most people here like Ivar, but only wish for him to kill Lagertha dead because of her sudden change in character, not because he is so much more awesome.

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As a young man raised muslim, I found it weird how the village, town, whatever it was divided so, id prayer was seconds away why then was the bazaar so lively? If there is a harem in a palace, filled to the brink with slaves, wouldn't it mean a powerful prince lived there and him having a armed to protect his holdings? Where was the lord, his men, and why were but a handful of the town's people at prayer?

Floki and Helga as other said made nosense, but one thing that the whole question of age got to me: isn't all the kids meant to be at age with Ragnar's sons? Magnus, the son of Aethelwulf who shall not be named, little Sig that died so Torvi can have scene time, and Alfred were all born or conceived between the time of Ragnar's sons at infancy, everyone should be young adults.

That all I wanted to say as everyoner covered about everything else, all I got left is, why anyone in this show doubt the gods, as they deliberately appear to them, sending them to serve as their agents, making their zealot murderous mandate righteous.  In universe theirs is the true faith and should all be acting like finehair.

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Floki being interested in Islam and stopping the killings kinda reminded me of how Ragnar first was with Christianity. 

Should Floki have a lock pick kit on him and know how to pick locks?

 I really liked the end of the episode how Odin went to all the sons and they just knew. Plus, Ragnars speech. It was weird when Bjorn and Hvitserk see Odin at the end of the episode and Bjorn says "my father is dead". Why not our father?

 I hope Rollo takes part in the Great Heathen Army.

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On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 1:18 AM, Wmarshal said:

As a young man raised muslim, I found it weird how the village, town, whatever it was divided so, id prayer was seconds away why then was the bazaar so lively? If there is a harem in a palace, filled to the brink with slaves, wouldn't it mean a powerful prince lived there and him having a armed to protect his holdings? Where was the lord, his men, and why were but a handful of the town's people at prayer?

Floki and Helga as other said made nosense, but one thing that the whole question of age got to me: isn't all the kids meant to be at age with Ragnar's sons? Magnus, the son of Aethelwulf who shall not be named, little Sig that died so Torvi can have scene time, and Alfred were all born or conceived between the time of Ragnar's sons at infancy, everyone should be young adults.

That all I wanted to say as everyoner covered about everything else, all I got left is, why anyone in this show doubt the gods, as they deliberately appear to them, sending them to serve as their agents, making their zealot murderous mandate righteous.  In universe theirs is the true faith and should all be acting like finehair.

I wondered the same thing about the prayer. I am an absolute novice when it comes to Islam so forgive me. I thought the night prayer was very important and that they would all be doing it at the same time. A friend of mine prays every day around 1-2 pm, so I found it curious that all the others were ignoring the call to prayer. I guess we can assume they aren't Muslim?

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 2:05 AM, -Ghost- said:

 I hope Rollo takes part in the Great Heathen Army.

Any chance he takes his new army with them to join the GHA? I don't know about history, I am just saying in the show.

 

 

Oh, and has anyone addressed the stupid Floki the locksmith issue yet? I almost shut the show off when he picked that damn lock. Talk about a scene ruining a moment. I mean, just leave the door open instead of ruining it for us.

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1 hour ago, dbunting said:

Any chance he takes his new army with them to join the GHA? I don't know about history, I am just saying in the show.

 

The GHA's invasion occurred before the creation of the Duchy of Normandy, but this show isn't exactly historically accurate, so anything is possible.

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I think for me, the whole Floki thing seemed contrived. I get that many converted to whatever belief systems of their adopted homelands. The historical Rollo did convert to Christianity, BUT, he allegedly was still conflicted all of his life between his old life, and his new life.

I mean, if Floki actually had been somewhat moderate on his own beliefs, the transition might seem more natural, but because he is such an "old gods" zealot, it didn't feel right.

Ragnar had always been questioning and curious, so his fascination with Christianity seemed a bit more consistent.

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In my opinion they made a big mistake with how they handled Ragnar in season 3 and in this one, i think that his death would have been even more impactful if he was in his full force and captured as a result of treachery or something like that. But now he was just a shadow of his former self, maybe they wanted to keep his legacy intact by ensuring he wasn't captured as a result of a lost battle. 

Anyway with all its ups and downs i still enjoy the show.

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On 2016-12-30 at 2:16 AM, Veltigar said:

Ha, that is good XD Speaking of Russian Vikings, any idea whether that kick-ass Russian film about Vladimir the Great is having any success?

As far as I understand, I think it is doing very well in Russian cinema, but the critics are pretty harsh on it. They praise the visual aspects of the film but the story has gotten a lot of critique and it is apparently not very historically accurate. On the other hand, apparently Putin liked it a lot.

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3 hours ago, GallowKnight said:

As far as I understand, I think it is doing very well in Russian cinema, but the critics are pretty harsh on it. They praise the visual aspects of the film but the story has gotten a lot of critique and it is apparently not very historically accurate. On the other hand, apparently Putin liked it a lot.

That's all that matters. :P

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The episode had a bunch of good moments mixed with the silliness and the plain bad.

  • Ecbert's lesson for Alfred was not bad, even though I am still wondering what happened to Aethelwulf's actual son.
  • Judith needs to go away. I like Aella and the rest of his family. Too bad he has to die a horrible death.
  • I liked that Floki returned to form after the wtf moment from last week.
  • I continue to like all of Ragnar's sons, each have some merits in their own way, Ivar being the best.
  • Congratulations to Ivar for being the first Viking with a helmet. Maybe it will catch on. 
  • What fortuitous timing for Bjorn to arrive just as Lagertha was about to be murdered. The plot gods put in some good work there. And really Lagertha deserves to be murdered, not because she killed Aslaug, but because she continues to let these threats to exist around her.
  • I love that Lagertha is actually doing some manual labor, while Astrid and Torvi just loiter about.
  • And really Bjorn, what the fuck? Astrid? :bang: And he continues to be a terrible father.
  • Rollo, there and back again. Is his role done in this show? I guess Bjorn will make another attempt at reaching Italy, and he will join up again. Also, why the two languages in his scene with Gisla? He learned old French, so I assumed Gisla addressed him in that language from the start. But apparently not.
  • I didn't retain the name of the burned man that was with Harald, but I feel that he is a historical person.

 

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Kattegat was actually decent this week. I loved Bjorn's timing, Floki and Ivar's reunion, and Ragnar's sons were good this week. Even Sigurd was decent. We got the old Lagertha back :) 

So Torvi can't play shield maiden when Bjorn's around? Haha, just do us all a favor and write your daughter out of the show, Hirst. Not Helga, she can stay. Just bring back the old Helga please.

Judith is the worst character on the series. I was hoping Aelle would push her in the pit.

I'm enjoying Harald and Halfdan, moustache twirls aside. Not sure who Egil is supposed to be. Earl Jorgensens' . . . son.

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12 hours ago, Corvinus said:

The episode had a bunch of good moments mixed with the silliness and the plain bad.

  • Judith needs to go away. I like Aella and the rest of his family. Too bad he has to die a horrible death.

Judith has anti-sympathy; she makes characters they're trying to make look horrible seem better in comparison.

Like, am I supposed to feel bad about her mom wanting her to stop fucking her father-in-law cause she gave a feminist applause line? It's Vikings, we've sympathized with worse people and better characters.

That whole scene was too much, it was the equivalent of the scenes you get in biographical films where the record exec or producer goes "it'll never catch on", while everyone knows better. I know the show has made it clear that Aelle is a dick but why not just have him make actual preparations that don't matter in the long run?

 

I wonder where they're going with this blonde slave, she's just...there. 

 

Edited by Castel

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This episode was bad. Not unwatchable shit mind you, but that's hardly a compliment. Vikings usually handles its timejumps rather expertly, but this was just so uneven and felt really rushed. I'm really not liking were this all seems to be heading. The assembly of the Great Heaven Army should have kept them busy for at least another couple of episodes, with the actual launch perhaps being right at the end of the season. But they seem to be going there next week already. Pretty sure that the people who predicted that Lagertha will eventually die at the hands of Magnus are going to be proven right.

I groaned when Judith the feminist came roaring back again with a vengeance. She should shut the fuck up. @Castel is completely right when he describes her as having the superpower of anti-sympathy. I was already liking Aelle, because of the actors gravitas, but this made me like him even more. Her warnings were also shit, at least this early. The boys had only just begun attracting suppporters to their cause. What can she tell her father about "the scale of their retribution."I also hated King Ecbert and Alfred... What the fuck was that about. I really can't stand the fact that he just prepares Alfred for taking over the kingdom and not caring about his own flesh and blood. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If Ecbert had been trying to make Alfred into a bishop or something like that, there would be an excuse for his ardour but this is just plain nonsensical.

Bjorn Ironside also had many groanworthy moments this episode. The obvious one of course being the ending where he goes off to fuck Astrid for reasons unknown. His earlier argument with his wife also came out of the leftfield. He garbled his lines with Rollo and his return, just in time to foil some actual plotdevelopment, was just fucking ridiculous.

Another awful thing was the dialogue this episode. Lord knows this has never been the show's strong suit, but this was just terrible. Everyone felt like they were going out of there way to say only things that were trite and obvious. The only exceptions were Rollo when he left the ships and Floki and Ivar in Floki's house. This show definitely needs to put work into more showing and a lot less telling. Like the scene where Ubbe talks to the new arrival who laughed with Ivarr:

Quote

“His name is Ivar, and he’s my brother. So I would stop laughing at him right now. If you want to stay alive, I would learn to respect and fear him. That would be my advice.”

=> Just show us why he shouldn't laugh about Ivarr. Let him give us a demonstration. If they wanted to turn him into this scarry monster, feared even by his peers and brothers, they are not doing a bang-up job. 

I'm also done with Fairhair and his brother. Their scheming is so damn obvious. Worst though, is that the show is actually treating them like the main treat. I hope to God we can spent time in England with the GHA, but I guess is we'll soon have to return to Norway to fight the fairhairs.  

I'm also tired of seeing the other brothers get bested by Ivar like chumps. He's just a cripple with a shitty attitude, they have actually not shown anything about why he's so menacing. They should let him fight someone or they should have kept him busy to secure alliances with other earls and kings. Just to show that Ivar really is as big of an OG as everyone treats him. Right now, I'm truly thinking that it was a mistake to turn him into a cripple.

After all chariots don't make you a fucking warrior, they were obsolete during the Viking age (especially a silly one like that with just one horse pulling it). Even a trained horse would have been better and much easier to transport. I was hoping he would have somehow gained some sort of ability to walk again by now (hey, that would have been a good way to bring Ivarr and Ragnar together and show why Ivarr is fiercely devoted to his father's legacy. Which is exactly why Hirst did not write it that way), that would have made his prowess more believable and make the other sons look less like doofusses. Right now Sigurd is a crybaby, Hvitserk is bland as fuck, Ubbe is pretty wishy-washy and I'm unsure what Bjorn is supposed to be after those last couple of scenes (why was he spying on Ivar at the end?). 

I also really can't believe no one died this episode. The least Ivar could have done was kill Astrid. Just to show that he's still cross. Just listening to Bjorn doesn't fit the character. He should have done something really.

8 hours ago, Astromech said:

So Torvi can't play shield maiden when Bjorn's around? Haha, just do us all a favor and write your daughter out of the show, Hirst. Not Helga, she can stay. Just bring back the old Helga please.

Get rid of both of them I say. Helga was cringe-inducing this week.

1 hour ago, Castel said:

I wonder where they're going with this blonde slave, she's just...there. 

Some eye-candy I guess. I was hoping for her to get some agency, but that doesn't appear likely. 

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2 hours ago, Veltigar said:

I'm also done with Fairhair and his brother. Their scheming is so damn obvious. Worst though, is that the show is actually treating them like the main treat. I hope to God we can spent time in England with the GHA, but I guess is we'll soon have to return to Norway to fight the fairhairs.  

Well, in the promo for next week's episode, it looked like Finehair & co were with the other Vikings in England, so I doubt that this will escalate beyond more stares and low-profile scheming until next season. A reckoning is coming though, and as the damn intros have been teasing us with the prospect of a naval battle since the very first episode of this show, I'm hoping for a massive showdown at sea between the forces of Finehair and some of the Ragnarssons (I'm thinking dozens if not hundreds of long-ships) as that would be a nice payoff. Well, a man can dream (of carnage like this or this).

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12 hours ago, Corvinus said:

 

  • What fortuitous timing for Bjorn to arrive just as Lagertha was about to be murdered. The plot gods put in some good work there. And really Lagertha deserves to be murdered, not because she killed Aslaug, but because she continues to let these threats to exist around her.

 

See I felt the exact opposite. Bjorn came a the right moment to stop his mother from killing his two brothers. Unlike both of them, we saw Laguertha seriously kick some ass in the past. Ubbe ? What the fuck can he really do except stare at you? Ivar's only chance to kill her is by throwing something at her and jumping on her if she falls. 

 

Despite Bjorn being one of my favorite character in the show, he really is a grade A asshole. And since when does he have kids with Torvi ? Did we see them before ? Has it been alluded to ? Did I miss something ?

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20 minutes ago, The Unborn said:

 

See I felt the exact opposite. Bjorn came a the right moment to stop his mother from killing his two brothers. Unlike both of them, we saw Laguertha seriously kick some ass in the past. Ubbe ? What the fuck can he really do except stare at you? Ivar's only chance to kill her is by throwing something at her and jumping on her if she falls. 

 

Despite Bjorn being one of my favorite character in the show, he really is a grade A asshole. And since when does he have kids with Torvi ? Did we see them before ? Has it been alluded to ? Did I miss something ?

Nah, Lagertha was dead in that scene. We've already seen Ubbe do a pretty good job at fighting his way through Lagertha's people. Ivar, despite his handicap was shown to be skilled with a blade, and ferocious. Also we've always seen Lagertha fight with a shield, and she was wearing a long dress that could hamper her movements. Not to mention that all of Lagertha's people were being held at knife point, so the Lothbrooks had the advantage. The only thing that might have helped Lagertha was Ubbe's hesitancy.

On Bjorn - enough time has passed that it would make sense for him to have kids with Torvi, but Hirst has made no effort in showing if Bjorn even cares about them. In the scene when Bjorn leaves and says his goodbye to Torvi, his son is right there, and Bjorn completely ignores him. Not like Ragnar at all in that regard.

Edited by Corvinus

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