The Long Night's Watch - the Undead Companions of the Last Hero

[Bluetiger]

9 minutes ago, Unchained said:

You have a lot of good points, I had not thought of the NK as a greenseer before, @BlueTiger, and I am by no means certain of the BtB thing.  Other than that I think what we are saying actually goes together.  

 

The Sleipnir story is just a partial influence imo, there's a lot more to the NK story.  I just cannot think of a reason why we have the NK chase her down like that unless we are supposed to think of a horse myth of this type, like Poseidon and Demeter.  

 

When I found a myth of that type that results in the birth of a horse that we relate to weirwood magic a light bulb went off.  

Good find with the eight-legged ice spiders. 

I wonder if Lady Webber plays the same psychpomp role:

Quote

He did not know what else to do, but to obey. The dais added a good foot to her height, yet even so Dunk towered over her. "Kneel," she said. He did.

The slap she gave him had all her strength behind it, and she was stronger than she looked. His cheek burned, and he could taste blood in his mouth from a broken lip, but she hadn't truly hurt him. For a moment all Dunk could think of was grabbing her by that long red braid and pulling her across his lap to slap her arse, as you would a spoiled child. If I do, she'll scream, though, and twenty knights will come bursting in to kill me.

"You dare appeal to me in Addam's name?" Her nostrils flared. "Remove yourself from Coldmoat, ser. At once."

(Sworn Sword)

 

Quote

"There will be no singing." Even if he had the voice for it, the only song Dunk knew all the way through was "The Bear and the Maiden Fair." He doubted that would do much to win over Lady Webber. The kettle was steaming once again. They wrestled it over to the tub and upended it.

Egg drew water to fill it for the third time, then clambered back onto the well. "You'd best not take any food or drink at Coldmoat, ser. The Red Widow poisoned all her husbands."

"I'm not like to marry her. She's a highborn lady, and I'm Dunk of Flea Bottom, remember?" He frowned. "Just how many husbands has she had, do you know?"

 

Quote

The old knight looked long at him. "That . . . that was ill considered, ser. The woman has a spider's heart. She murdered three of her husbands. And all her brothers died in swaddling clothes. Five, there were. Or six, mayhaps, I don't recall. They stood between her and the castle. She would whip the skin off any peasant who displeased her, I do not doubt, but for you to cut one . . . no, she will not suffer such an insult. Make no mistake. She will come for you, as she came for Lem."

"Dake, m'lord," Ser Bennis said. "Begging 

 

Quote

"—pretty. It was pretty ." Dunk did not know where that came from, but he was glad it came. He liked her nose, and the strawberry-blond color of her hair, and the small but well-shaped breasts beneath her leather jerkin. "I thought that you'd be . . . I mean . . . they said you were four times a widow, so . . ."

"My first husband died when I was ten. He was twelve, my father's squire, ridden down upon the Redgrass Field. My husbands seldom linger long, I fear. The last died in the spring."

That was what they always said of those who had perished during the Great Spring Sickness two years past. He died in the spring. Many tens of thousands had died in the spring, among them a wise old king and two young princes full of promise. "I . . . I am sorry for all your losses, m'lady." A gallantry, you lunk, give her a gallantry. "I want to say . . . your gown . . ."

 

Quote

Lady Rohanne raised an arm and pointed. "Look at my fields, Osgrey. How dry they are. I would have been a fool to set a fire. Had the wind changed direction, the flames might well have leapt the stream, and burned out half my crops."

"Might have?" Ser Eustace shouted. "It was my woods that burned, and you that burned them. Most like you cast some witch's spell to drive the wind, just as you used your dark arts to slay your husbands and your brothers!"

Lady Rohanne's face grew harder. Dunk had seen that look at Coldmoat, just before she slapped him.

 

[Bluetiger]

Quote

From GOT:

The Grand Maester smiled gently from his tall chair at the foot of the table. "Well enough for a man of my years, my lord," he replied, "yet I do tire easily, I fear." Wispy strands of white hair fringed the broad bald dome of his forehead above a kindly face. His maester's collar was no simple metal choker such as Luwin wore, but two dozen heavy chains wound together into a ponderous metal necklace that covered him from throat to breast. The links were forged of every metal known to man: black iron and red gold, bright copper and dull lead, steel and tin and pale silver, brass and bronze and platinum. Garnets and amethysts and black pearls adorned the metal-work, and here and there an emerald or ruby. "Perhaps we might begin soon," the Grand Maester said, hands knitting together atop his broad stomach. "I fear I shall fall asleep if we wait much longer.

Grand Maester has amethysts in his collar - a hint about origins of their order? Were they Amethyst Empress loyalists who fled across the Sunset Sea when Bloodstone Emperor took over GEOTD? 

Btw, I think that while amethysts = symbols of the usurped Empress, black/dark amethysts = revange (Sansa's hairnet, Daemon II's amethysts, Dany's 1000 tiny soldier figures - moon meteors which fell upon the world to punish BE?).

[Unchained]

5 hours ago, Blue Tiger said:

Good find with the eight-legged ice spiders. 

I wonder if Lady Webber plays the same psychpomp role:

 

 

 

 

 

That wasn't me, I can't remember who said that first, but it went with the idea that a coffin being carried by 4 people has eight legs and carries a person to the world of the dead being a possible reason for Sleipnir's number of legs.  

 

I don't fully understand spider people.  I think anything with eight legs should be given psychpomp consideration, but the common thread I believe that connects them is a symbolic connection to the weirwood wide web (wwww.).

 

Lady Webber because of her name and her spider heart and poison references is one.  Not really sure what to make of her though.    

 

I think Varys the spider with his information web is playing a part showing us the greenseer king archetype.  He makes the king like a greenseer watching everything in his domain.  

[Bluetiger]

I was thinking about GRRM's source for the Summer King vs Oak King myth. I believe I've found it.

Renly is the answer. Or rather wren-ly.

From Wikipedia

Quote

The English name "wren" derives from Middle English wrenne, Old English wrænna, attested (as werna) very early, in an eighth-century gloss. It is cognate to Old High German wrendo, wrendilo, and Icelandic rindill (the latter two including an additional diminutive -ilan suffix). The Icelandic name is attested in Old Icelandic (Eddaic) rindilþvari. This points to a Common Germanic name *wrandjan-, but the further etymology of the name is unknown.

The wren is also known as kuningilin "kinglet" in Old High German, a name associated with the fable of the election of the "king of birds". The bird that could fly to the highest altitude would be made king. The eagle outflew all other birds, but he was beaten by a small bird that had hidden in his plumage. This fable is already known to Aristotle (Historia Animalium 9.11) and Pliny (Naturalis Historia 10.74), and was taken up by medieval authors such as Johann Geiler von Kaisersberg, but it concerns Regulus, and is apparently motivated by the yellow "crown" sported by these birds (a point noted already by Ludwig Uhland). In modern German, the name is Zaunkönig, king of the fence (or hedge). In Dutch, the name is winterkoninkje (little winter king).

The family name Troglodytidae is derived from troglodyte, which means "cave-dweller", and the wrens get their scientific name from the tendency of some species to forage in dark crevices.

The name "wren" is also ascribed to other families of passerine birds throughout the world. In Europe, species of Regulus are commonly known as "wrens", the common firecrest and goldcrest as "fire-crested wren" and "golden-crested wren", respectively.

The 27 Australasian "wren" species in the family Maluridae are unrelated, as are the New Zealand wrens in the family Acanthisittidae, the antwrens in the family Thamnophilidae, and the wren-babblers of the family Timaliidae.

(...)

The wren features prominently in culture. The Eurasian wren has been long considered "the king of birds" in Europe. Killing one or harassing its nest is associated with bad luck—broken bones, lightning strikes on homes, injury to cattle. Wren Day, celebrated in parts of Ireland on St. Stephen's Day (26 December), features a fake wren being paraded around town on a decorative pole; up to the 20th century, real birds were hunted for this purpose. A possible origin for the tradition is revenge for the betrayal of Saint Stephen by a noisy wren when he was trying to hide from enemies in a bush.

The Carolina wren (Thryothorus ludovicianus) has been the state bird of South Carolina since 1948, and features on the back of its state quarter. The British farthing featured a wren on the reverse side from 1937 until its demonetisation in 1960.

From Wikipedia

Quote

Wren Day, also known as Wren's Day, Day of the Wren, or Hunt the Wren Day (Irish: Lá an Dreoilín), is celebrated on 26 December, St. Stephen's Day. The tradition consists of "hunting" a fake wren and putting it on top of a decorated pole. Then the crowds of mummers, or strawboys, celebrate the wren (also pronounced wran) by dressing up in masks, straw suits, and colourful motley clothing. They form music bands and parade through towns and villages. These crowds are sometimes called wrenboys.

In past times and into the 20th century, an actual bird was hunted by wrenboys on St. Stephen's Day. The captured wren was tied to the wrenboy leader's staff or a net would be put on a pitchfork. It would be sometimes kept alive, as the popular mummers' parade song states, "A penny or tuppence would do it no harm". The song, of which there are many variations, asked for donations from the townspeople. One variation sang in Edmondstown, County Dublin ran as such; "The wren the wren the king of all birds/ St Stephen's Day was caught in the furze/ Her clothes were all torn- her shoes were all worn/ Up with the kettle and down with the pan/ Give us a penny to bury the "wran"/ If you haven't a penny a halfpenny will do/ If you haven't a halfpenny/ God bless you!". Often the boys gave a feather from the bird to patrons for good luck. The money was used to host a dance or "Wren Ball" for the town on a night in January. Wrenboys would go from house to house in the countryside collecting money but in the towns the groups were more organised and there was often an element of faction-fighting. In both cases there would be a Wren Captain, usually wearing a cape and carrying a sword; musicians; strawboys and others dressed as old women or other things. It is a day of wild revelry and people usually conceal their identities so they can play tricks on their friends. This type of behaviour is typical of Celtic festivals as a sort of purge. The band of young boys has expanded to include girls, and adults often join in. The money collected from the townspeople is usually donated to a school or charity.

Similar traditions of hunting the wren have been performed in Pembrokeshire, Wales on Twelfth Day (6 January) and, on the first Sunday of December in parts of Southern France, including Carcassonne. The custom has been revived in Suffolk by Pete Jennings and the Old Glory Molly Dancers and has been performed in the village of Middleton every Boxing Day evening since 1994.

A tradition of Hunting the Wren happens on the Isle of Man every St Stephen's day (26 December) at various locations around the Island. This is a circle dance, music and song, taken around the streets. A stuffed wren or substitute is placed at the centre of a tall hooped pole decorated with ribbons and greenery. Then a lively circle dance takes place around it, to live musicians playing the tune, and from time to time the song is sung. The words of the song on the Island are similar to the Dublin variation and the North Wales version

The wren celebration may have descended from Celtic mythology. Ultimately, the origin may be a Samhain or midwinter sacrifice or celebration, as Celtic mythology considered the wren a symbol of the past year (the European wren is known for its habit of singing even in mid-winter, and its name in the Netherlands, "winter king," reflects this); Celtic names of the wren (draouennig, drean, dreathan, dryw etc.) also suggest an association with druidic rituals.

Lleu Llaw Gyffes, a Celtic hero, wins his name by hitting or killing a wren. He strikes a wren "between the tendon and the bone of its leg", causing Arianrhod, his mother, to say "it is with a skillful hand that the fair-haired one has hit it". At that Gwydion, his foster father, reveals himself, saying Lleu Llaw Gyffes; "the fair-haired one with the skillful hand" is his name now".

In the Isle of Man, the hunting of the wren is associated with an ancient enchantress or 'queen of the fairies' (or goddess) named 'Tehi Tegi' which translates to something like 'beautiful gatherer' in Brythonic (the Manx spoke Brythonic before they switched to Gaelic). Tehi Tegi was so beautiful that all the men of the Island followed her around in hope of marrying her, and neglected their homes and fields. Tehi Tegi led her suitors to the river and then drowned them. She was confronted, but turned into a wren and escaped. She was banished from the Island but returns once a year, when she is hunted

The Christian theory

The myth most commonly told in Ireland to explain the festival is as follows; God wished to know who was the king of all birds so he set a challenge. The bird who flew highest and furthest would win. The birds all began together but they dropped out one by one until none were left but the great eagle. The eagle eventually grew tired and began to drop lower in the sky. At this point, the treacherous wren emerged from beneath the eagle's wing to soar higher and further than all the others. This belief is shown is the song that begins:

"The wren, the wren, the King of All Birds, St. Stephen's Night got caught in the furze."

This also illustrates the tradition of hunting the wren on Christmas Day (St. Stephen's Eve/Night)

The Norse theory

The tradition may also have been influenced by Scandinavian settlers during the Viking invasions of the 8th to 10th centuries though it is usually attributed to the "Christianising" of old pagan festivals by saints to ease the transition and promote conversion.Various associated legends exist, such as a wren being responsible for betraying Irish soldiers who fought the Viking invaders by beating its wings on their shields, in the late 1st and early 2nd millennia, and for betraying the Christian martyr Saint Stephen, after whom the day is named. This mythological association with treachery is a possible reason the bird was hunted by wrenboys on St. Stephen's Day, or why a pagan sacrificial tradition was continued into Christian times. Despite the abandonment of killing the wren, devoted wrenboys continue to ensure that the Gaelic tradition of celebrating the wren continues, although it is no longer widespread

 

 

and from The White Goddess

Quote

The Wren - King of Birds

Wrenning Day.  St Stephen's Day (26th December) used to be so called, because it was a local custom amoung villagers to stone a wren to death on that day in commemoration of the stoning of Saint Stephen.  It was believed that the wren's song betrayed St. Stephen, hiding from pursuit, to martyrdom. Thus on St. Stephen's Day, December 26, a wren was traditionally killed, and a group of boys would carry it in procession from house to house.

 

Wren Mythology 
"He who shall hurt the little wren 
  Shall never be belov'd by men." - William Blake Auguries of Innocence

A Robin and a wren 
Are God Almighty's cock and hen.- Old Distich

I never take away their nest nor try 
To catch the old ones, lest a friend should die 
Dick took a wren's nest from his cottage side. 
And ere a twelvemonth past his mother dy'd!- An Old Poet

The wren has always been a King as its name in European languages indicates: Latin, Regulus; French, Reytelet; Welsh. dryw, king; Teutonic, Koning Vogel, king-bird; Dutch, Konije, little, king." In Manx, Dreain, from druai dryw, the Druid's bird. Other Names for the wren include: JINNIE, JINNIE WRAN. Manx, Drein, Drean (M. S. D. and Cr.); Dreeain (M. S. D.). (Cf. Irish, Dreathan, Dreoilin; Se. Gaelic, Dreollan, Drethein.)

1. Considerd a "most sacred bird"  
2. Called: Drui-en or Druid bird in Irish Gaelic.  In Welsh the word Dryw means both druid and wren. 
3. The wren is as is the Druid known to be cunning. The wren could soar to heights while also navigating hedges and underbrush. 
4 It is said that the Druid's house was the wren's nest and that the wren's nest was protected by lighening. 
5. Whoever tried to steal wren's eggs or baby wrens would find their house struck by lightning and  their hands would shrivel up. 
6. The wren was hunted and killed in a ritualistic way, enacting the idea that the death of a god bestows strength on his killer, a variant of the belief that in the killing of the old king, his powers will be passed on to his successor. 
7. The wren symbolised wisdom and divinity. It is difficult to actually see a wren. At New Year it is said that  the apprentice Druid would go out by himself into the countryside in search of hidden wisdom. If he found a wren he would take that as a sign that he would be blessed with inner knowledge in the coming year. Finding a creature small and elusive to the point of invisibility was a metaphor for finding the elusive divinity within all life. 
8.Auguries were drawn from its chirping. The direction from which it calls is highly significant. 
9.The bird was sacred to Taliesin. 
10. In Scotland it was the Lady of Heaven's Hen and killing it was considered extremely unlucky. 
11. In Ireland it was known as 'Fionn's doctor'.  
12. Lightning was the weapon of the thunder bull-god Taranis, who often inhabited oak trees, and the wren was sacred to Taranis.  

 

From Wikipedia again:

Quote

The Holly King is a speculative archetype of modern studies of folklore and mythology which has been popularized in some Neopagan religions. In his book The White Goddess, the author Robert Graves proposed that the mythological figure of the Holly King represents one half of the year, while the other is personified by his counterpart and adversary the Oak King: the two battle endlessly as the seasons turn. At Midsummer the Oak King is at the height of his strength, while the Holly King is at his weakest. The Holly King begins to regain his power, and at the Autumn Equinox, the tables finally turn in the Holly King's favor; his strength peaks at Midwinter. Graves identified a number of paired hero-figures which he believes are variants of this myth, including Lleu Llaw Gyffes and Gronw Pebr, Gwyn and Gwythr, Lugh and Balor, Balan and Balin, Gawain and the Green Knight, the robin and the wren, and even Jesus and John the Baptist.

A similar idea was suggested previously by Sir James George Frazer in his work The Golden Bough in Chapter XXVIII, The Killing of The Tree Spirit in the section entitled The Battle of Summer and Winter. Frazer drew parallels between the folk-customs associated with May Day or the changing seasons in Scandinavian, Bavarian and Native American cultures, amongst others, in support of this theory.However the Divine King of Frazer was split into the kings of winter and summer in Graves' work.

These pairs are seen as the dual aspects of the male Earth deity, one ruling the waxing year, the other ruling the waning year. Stewart and Janet Farrar, following Graves' theory, gave a similar interpretation to Wiccan seasonal rituals. According to Joanne Pearson, the Holly King is represented by holly and other evergreens, and personifies the dark half of the Wiccan Wheel of the Year. He is also seen by some Neopagans as an early inspiration for the Father Christmas legend.

The battle of light with dark is commonly played out in traditional folk dance and mummers plays across Britain such as Calan Mai in Wales, Mazey Day in Cornwall and Jack in the Green traditions in England which typically include a ritual battle in some form

WOW...

All of that fits Renly perfectly... popular king, rose to power thanks to others (Robert), paraded through towns and villages (his tourneys and feasts in the Reach) and than sacrificed. 

 

(I'm doing a Did you know that... ? trivia for my blog and I've found that wrenly stuff) 

So far I have this:

Quote

* Ygg , a legendary tree of The Iron Islands might be a reference to Yggdrasil of Norse Mythology?

* Sigil of House Wynch might give us a clue about the Long Night and the Moon?

* Renly Baratheon might be named after wren, in reference to the various traditions concerning that bird? (see BT's theory)

but it'll be updated weekly. I'm thinking about setting up and general ASOIAF + Amber Compendium + Mythical Astronomy fanpage on Facebook. With daily funfacts or theories and analyses in nutshell.

I've rearranged and added few things at The Amber Compendium blog, but so far there're no new articles or essays besides LML's Astronomy Polish translations, one test entry of Encyclopedia (about House Wynch of Iron Holt), Hall of Fame and introduction. But I've added list of planned essays:

Quote

PLANNED ESSAYS AS OF FEBRUARY 2017

* The Amber Compendium, Chapter I: Yggdrasil
* Encyclopedia of Myth in ASOIAF: Episode II
* Translation: The Bloodstone Emperor Azor Ahai (Predicting and Causing Lightning and Thunderstorms - End)
* Translation: Waves of Night and Moon Blood
* Translation: Rest of Mythical Astronomy series
* Re-Read of ASOIAF: GOT Prologue
* Amethyst Empress VS Golden King: The Princess and The Queen analysis