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Pondering on the purpose of the "Three Sisters" Davos Chapter in Dance


Free Northman Reborn

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Many of the events taking place in present time in the series are actually parallels or echoes of events that have happened in the past.   The books are full of examples and several people have discussed it here on this forum.  

IMO this Davos chapter is giving us some good information about events prior to the Rebellion - particularly the Fisherman's Daughter story.   It lays out a few things:   that the Sisters - mostly isolated from the rest of the Vale/Westeros - are a known smuggler's haven; that Ned's route home from the Vale to avoid fighting in Gulltown was a strange one; and that Ned had a woman with a rather contrived story with him that he paid and sent away, and who later supposedly birthed his bastard son.  

I believe we should be thinking about a human smuggling operation - Ned either trying to get a woman to White Harbor unseen, or trying to put her on a smuggler's boat at Sisterton.  Both places have easy access to the Narrow Sea, where one could board a ship going...well, anywhere:  Braavos, Dragonstone, Dorne, Tyrosh, Lys.     The bag of silver was payment for passage.

I have a whole theory built out for this and have laid out a couple of options re: the woman's identity, but regardless of who she may be, the takeaway is that we're given this fluff chapter because we should be paying attention to these hints of 'what goes around, comes around'.  It's not fluff at all.   The FD may be a red herring for Jon Snow, but she's a clue to other Rebellion happenings.

 

(FWIW, Davos chapters are good for these echoes - we get another good one when he smuggles Edric Storm off of Dragonstone and to the Free Cities in order to avoid harm that will come to him from Melisandre.   Three guesses as to what this parallels, and the first two don't count!)

 

 

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6 hours ago, St Daga said:

Maybe this statement is meant to be sarcasm? If so, forgive me for not picking up on that. If not ...

This is not a filler chapter, and neither is Davos II. We get lot's of information here, and in all of Davos' POV chapters. The information we get is important to the plot of this entire story. Do you truly believe in Davos II we get no plot? Really? The Merman's Court, the Order of the Green Hand, the interplay between Davos, Wyman, the Frey's is certainly plot development, including the lies the Frey's tell about Robb Stark turning into a werewolf and killing Wyman's son Wendel and how that seems to be accepted, Wylla Manderly's sassy interjections and her declaring that the Manderly's would always be Stark men, the information on the Karstark's planning to betray Stannis after pledging to him is plot development, our impression that Davos is being hauled off to the Wolf's Den to have his head and hand cut off.

No plot development at all ... Never mind, it must have been sarcasm

All these things happen in Davos III, in Davos II he arrives at White Harbor, walks the city describing it wondering if he should run away or remain loyal to his duty, arrives at the castle and asks to see Lord Wyman. END OF CHAPTER. You see, Davos II is so relevant to the story that you didn't even remember it existed hahaha

We might have different opinions about what exactly is a "filler" chapter. For me, a filler chapter characterizes as a chapter with almost non-relevant information to the overall story put in deliberately to prolong the series/books. I'm not agaisn't filler chapters, they enrich asoiaf universe, they serve to control the pace of the book. What I don't like is when the book is filled with filler chapters.

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3 hours ago, The Hammer of Justice said:

All these things happen in Davos III, in Davos II he arrives at White Harbor, walks the city describing it wondering if he should run away or remain loyal to his duty, arrives at the castle and asks to see Lord Wyman. END OF CHAPTER. You see, Davos II is so relevant to the story that you didn't even remember it existed hahaha

We might have different opinions about what exactly is a "filler" chapter. For me, a filler chapter characterizes as a chapter with almost non-relevant information to the overall story put in deliberately to prolong the series/books. I'm not agaisn't filler chapters, they enrich asoiaf universe, they serve to control the pace of the book. What I don't like is when the book is filled with filler chapters.

Haha! You are correct about Davos II and III. That is what I get after posting after a 13 hr night shift. I should have my book flagged with chapter names and numbers, but that seems like work.

So I do agree that some stuff is world building for GRRM's narrative, but we never know when what he writes might be important to the story. I have no idea if "old fishfoot" will play a larger role in the story or not, but it is good we know that people can hang their smallcloths out on his trident to dry! 

In all seriousness, this chapter, Davos III, does have some information for the reader and Davos about the Manderly's. Davos can see that Manderly is building a fleet and raising men to serve. He can tell that the Direwolf sigil is no where to be seen (that is bad) but neither is the Lannister Lion (that is good).He knows that people seem to be fleeing to White Harbor to escape the Boltons and Manderly is giving them refuge, and that Manderly and Bolton don't jive well together, according to gossip at Eastwatch. Davos also learns that the Lannisters have Wyman Manderly's son Wylis as a captive and Davos fear's that this means Stannis will get no help from the Lord of White Harbor. He hears that the Bolton's are marching on Moat Cailin, and that several northern houses are marching with the Boltons, united to push the Iron Born out of the north. Stannis needs the north, and it seems like the north belongs to the Boltons. Davos is very unsure of the greeting he will get if he presents himself to Lord Manderly as the hand of the King Stannis the Mannis.

Early in this chapter, Davos questions why he is still alive when he has lost four sons to the grave. Do the Gods have some other task for me? he wonders. Knowing all that he has found out in his time in White Harbor, Davos is faced again with a question. Do I go forward or do I give up and go back? He chooses to go forward, to present himself to the Manderly's, because it is his duty to Stannis, and because he gave his word. In this chapter he reminises and relives his smuggling lifestyle in a way, and he enjoyed that life and misses it, and it would be easy to return to it, but he can't because he is a different person now, with a different agenda. I see this has him saying goodbye to the past and facing his future.

In many ways, I see Davos as facing, and passing a series of tests. His is a hero's journey, as much as Jon's, or Dany's. He is important to the story. Because he is a moral compass, but also because I think he was given a second chance after the Blackwater to make a difference, and he is bound by his word to complete his task. Each step he takes, helps him reach his goal. Even when he realizes that the odds are against him, he moves forward, and in this case, seeks out Lord Manderly.

Things that are outside of the main plot that I think are interesting are two ships that Davos mentions. The first is called the Merry Midwife and Davos arrived on her from Sisterton. This ship is actually described by Davos as drab and pock-marked, with grey and brown sails. Her figurehead is interesting, and is of a laughing woman, holding an infant by one foot. This makes me think of several things, namely Ashara Dayne, who was described as having laughing purple eyes, and she is holding an infant by one foot, which is similar to the story of Achilles and his mother Thetis, who dipped her son in the river Styx to protect him from harm. The second ship is the Sloe Eyed Maid, which is actually a ship that Dany thought to book passage on for she and her dragons to reach Westeros. It turnes out the Sloe Eyed Maid crashed on the shores of Sisterton, and was destroyed completely, probably when it was lured into shore by the ship wreckers at Sisterton (which is hinted at in Davos II, when Lord Borrell talks of the spices he got off a sloe eyed maid, and which he offeres to Davos to flavor up is Sister's Stew). Sloe eyed is defined as having attractive dark and almond shaped eyes. Sloe berries are purple in color (although the juice is red). Ashara Dayne is refered to as the maid with the laughting purple eyes, and Barriston Selmy thinks Dany could be Ashara's daugher, because of her eyes. So the Sloe Eyed Maid also makes me think of both Dany and Ashara Dayne. 

I wonder if the author is alluding to the possibility that Ashara Dayne was here in White Harbor in the past, possible disguised as a fishermans daughter along with Ned Stark. Could this be allusion to Wylla, a midwife/wet nurse/caregiver? I think there is much information in every chapter, it is just a matter of how we look at it. It could mean nothing and GRRM is laughing his ass off at all the people sitting around in tin foil hats!!!

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9 hours ago, St Daga said:

I think there is much information in every chapter, it is just a matter of how we look at it. It could mean nothing and GRRM is laughing his ass off at all the people sitting around in tin foil hats!!!

1.  I hope GRRM is too busy finishing WOW to pay much attention to our musings. ;)

2.  GRRM is not in the business of writing logic puzzles.  He is in the business of keeping millions of people in suspense. He has to drop enough hints and clues, but he certainly isn't going to make things obvious. If we could guess it all, it would probably depress him.

Some ideas seem more consistent with the books than others, but it wouldn't be any fun if nobody debated competing theories.

I never knew what "sloe-eyed" meant. Thanks for the info. Also, interesting catches on the ship names.  

So Ashara is still in the running!

 

 

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9 hours ago, St Daga said:

Things that are outside of the main plot that I think are interesting are two ships that Davos mentions. The first is called the Merry Midwife and Davos arrived on her from Sisterton. This ship is actually described by Davos as drab and pock-marked, with grey and brown sails. Her figurehead is interesting, and is of a laughing woman, holding an infant by one foot. This makes me think of several things, namely Ashara Dayne, who was described as having laughing purple eyes, and she is holding an infant by one foot, which is similar to the story of Achilles and his mother Thetis, who dipped her son in the river Styx to protect him from harm. The second ship is the Sloe Eyed Maid, which is actually a ship that Dany thought to book passage on for she and her dragons to reach Westeros. It turnes out the Sloe Eyed Maid crashed on the shores of Sisterton, and was destroyed completely, probably when it was lured into shore by the ship wreckers at Sisterton (which is hinted at in Davos II, when Lord Borrell talks of the spices he got off a sloe eyed maid, and which he offeres to Davos to flavor up is Sister's Stew). Sloe eyed is defined as having attractive dark and almond shaped eyes. Sloe berries are purple in color (although the juice is red). Ashara Dayne is refered to as the maid with the laughting purple eyes, and Barriston Selmy thinks Dany could be Ashara's daugher, because of her eyes. So the Sloe Eyed Maid also makes me think of both Dany and Ashara Dayne. 

This is fascinating - great catches there.   I'll add to the idea of the Merry Midwife - the drab, pock-marked, grey & brown sails description brings to mind one of the lower/common septas or a Silent Sister; also the disguises that several characters have donned throughout the series when they wanted to travel unrecognized or be inconspicuous.  

Tie that in with the Sloe-Eyed Maid, which was lured in under the pretense of aid/safe passage but was in reality being drawn to harm & total destruction.   One could make a parallel comparison to the Fisherman's Daughter ferrying Ned across the Bite, only for them to crash upon Sisterton, boat completely destroyed.

Interesting also that the Sloe-Eyed Maid was destroyed upon the shores, but the Merry Midwife, the beat-up old cog with grey and tattered sails so similar to a peasant disguise, leaves Sisterton 'alive'/intact and safely delivers Davos to White Harbor.

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1 hour ago, PrettyPig said:

Interesting also that the Sloe-Eyed Maid was destroyed upon the shores, but the Merry Midwife, the beat-up old cog with grey and tattered sails so similar to a peasant disguise, leaves Sisterton 'alive'/intact and safely delivers Davos to White Harbor.

So many interesting angles!  I suppose the two ships could allude to two different women who passed through: Ashara (who eventually is smashe'd on the rocks), and a Wylla-type wetnurse/midwife who survives.

Ashara wouldn't necessaily have to physically die.  Like Sansa/Alayne, perhaps she became Wylla.  Only I don't think she could be the same Wylla who nursed Edric Dayne  ...too many people would recognize her.

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2 hours ago, SummerSphinx said:

I hope GRRM is too busy finishing WOW to pay much attention to our musings. ;)

 

Some ideas seem more consistent with the books than others, but it wouldn't be any fun if nobody debated competing theories.

I never knew what "sloe-eyed" meant. Thanks for the info. Also, interesting catches on the ship names.  

So Ashara is still in the running!

 

 

I hope he is busy finishing tWoW, too, but I worry!

The debate and attempt to figure out the clues really is a fun part of this whole wild series. I honestly don't really think anyone is out of the running as far as Jon (and possibly Dany's) parents go! This chapter makes me think of Ashara and Daenarys, others don't!

2 hours ago, PrettyPig said:

This is fascinating - great catches there.   I'll add to the idea of the Merry Midwife - the drab, pock-marked, grey & brown sails description brings to mind one of the lower/common septas or a Silent Sister; also the disguises that several characters have donned throughout the series when they wanted to travel unrecognized or be inconspicuous.  

Tie that in with the Sloe-Eyed Maid, which was lured in under the pretense of aid/safe passage but was in reality being drawn to harm & total destruction.   One could make a parallel comparison to the Fisherman's Daughter ferrying Ned across the Bite, only for them to crash upon Sisterton, boat completely destroyed.

Interesting also that the Sloe-Eyed Maid was destroyed upon the shores, but the Merry Midwife, the beat-up old cog with grey and tattered sails so similar to a peasant disguise, leaves Sisterton 'alive'/intact and safely delivers Davos to White Harbor.

I think the ship names are interesting. They jump out at me throughout the series. Some are just fun, like most of the Iron Born ships, but some names seem to have more meaning than others. I have always thought that GRRM doesn't waste much text, so things have to mean something.

Interesting connection to people hiding behind disguises, but right in plain site. The Merry Midwife, a ragged ship, seems more low born, while the exotic Sloe-Eyed Maid has high born elements. Also, the parallel between Ned's landing years ago on Sisterton with the Sloe-Eyed Maid in the present, the idea of safety versus the reality of destruction is fascinating. I will have to ponder that!

20 minutes ago, SummerSphinx said:

So many interesting angles!  I suppose the two ships could allude to two different women who passed through: Ashara (who eventually is smashe'd on the rocks), and a Wylla-type wetnurse/midwife who survives.

Ashara wouldn't necessaily have to physically die.  Like Sansa/Alayne, perhaps she became Wylla.  Only I don't think she could be the same Wylla who nursed Edric Dayne  ...too many people would recognize her.

I like the idea of the Sloe-Eyed Maid and Ashara (jumped from a tower and drowned, or so the story goes) crashing upon the rocks.

I never considered two different women with these ships, as being separate people with separate goal or paths. I think that idea does have some merit. Nice thought!

In the Tyrion chapters, he is traveling on a boat called the Shy Maid. People have compared this ship to Ned and Ashara, and I do see that possibility. Ned was reported to be The Quiet Wolf at Harrenhal, to shy to ask Ashara, the maid with the laughing purple eyes to dance. There are really so many details in these books it can be overwhelming to understand which are important and which are purposfully there to distract the reader. Also, we really have no idea what was going on at Harrenhal, what the goal might have been, what the few details we have could mean. We have a little (very little, actually) information and a whole lot of conjecture and theory crafting based on few actual details. 

Another thing I have always thought about is if Wylla is an identity that someone is hiding behind, who is it? In our story, Wylla is associated with Ned, Dorne, Wylla Manderly (why exactly is her hair died green?), being Jon's mother and being Edric Daynes wet nurse. But the name itself, Wylla, makes me think of Lyanna. Maybe it's the letters, and they are not even in a similar order, but Lya, which is how Ned refers to his sister, can easily be placed within the name Wylla. It is also similar to Walys, who is associate with being a past Maester of Winterfell, a Walys Flowers, (according to the wiki). I have often wondered if the "Lyanna  was ... fond of flowers" Eddard I-aGoT comment from Ned, was not in reference to blue roses but this Maester Walys? Too much tin foil?

Who the heck really knows, anyway! Details just churn about in my head and it is all guessing at this point! I am sorry, I just got very distracted from Davos and two ships in his chapters. Ha!

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On 1/7/2017 at 8:25 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

Interesting, guys.

Seams, nice theory, but I don't buy into the Shakespearean literary stuff. I don't personally think that Martin writes at such a symbolic level. Smuggler rhyming with juggler, the Flea Bottom equating to the Children because of similar bowls being described, various uses of alliteration like Singer's Soup etc, nope, I don't buy any of that. It reminds me of my English teacher in high school making you look for symbolic references in a book while you think, bloody hell, there's no way the author actually spent all that time actually meaning any of that. He would liikely be as surprised as I was at hearing that some straight forward use of a phrase supposedly means something symbolic, if you look at it just right.

I don't think this is Shakespeare level stuff, in other words. This is fantasy.

But there are clear allusions to Shakespeare in the story. 

I like this kind of thread, and I intend to reread the chapter and give my two groats, for what it's worth, but I want to ask, doesn't this thread belong in the reread sub forum? 

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On 1/7/2017 at 9:08 AM, Lord Varys said:

My take on the minimum number of Davos chapters for TWoW is mostly based on the travel aspect of the story. I expect the first chapter to cover the sea voyage, introducing Davos' companions and ending in the arrival on Skagos (if that goes easy), then the beginning of the search and the introduction of some Skagosi. Later on it will depend on what exactly George wants to happen. Is Rickon easy to find? Does he want to leave the island? What do the Skagosi want? Are there multiple factions involved? Are there further complications (say, perhaps some 'dead things in the water' in evidence near Hardhome have already reached Skagos?).

Travels quickly get complicated in this series. Just look at Brienne's, Arya's, Tyrion's, etc. travelogue chapters. I'd be very surprised if Davos suddenly got Rickon out of that place in three chapters. That would not fit well with the overall tone of the series. And I'd actually be surprised if things turned out as expected. I don't doubt that Rickon will eventually leave the island but perhaps other things are going to happen first connecting this story with another. Just look how the introduction of Aegon changed the game in the south.

Or Davos and Rickon might already be with Robett near Winterfell. Davos could recall any events the George wants us to know for future plot developments. In fact, we could learn about the battle of ice through Davos's and Theon's and Asha's perspectives. 

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11 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Or Davos and Rickon might already be with Robett near Winterfell. Davos could recall any events the George wants us to know for future plot developments. In fact, we could learn about the battle of ice through Davos's and Theon's and Asha's perspectives. 

That is unlikely due to the fact that George usually doesn't have such jumps ahead in time for his POVs. And it would be doubly unlikely in case of Rickon and Skagos due to the fact that he just hinted at Rickon's location. We are supposed to guess at that. It would be utterly ridiculous to jump from Davos being afraid of cannibals to Davos chilling near Winterfell.

That would have worked if Rickon had, in fact, been at White Harbor.

But the way things are I'm pretty sure the next Davos chapter is going to cover Davos' journey to Skagos. Keep in mind that there is most likely also an additional plot point to the introduction of the Skagosi. They won't be 10,000 additional Stark loyalists, but there will be some warriors there who end up going to play an important role in the story to come - but most certainly not in the battle(s) near Winterfell.

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On 1/7/2017 at 7:25 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

I don't think this is Shakespeare level stuff, in other words. This is fantasy.

Lord Varys

I get where you're coming from. I also wonder if the Sisters are going to turn out to be more important than they currently seem. Not sure how, just yet. But there are possibilities, I guess.

 

47 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

But there are clear allusions to Shakespeare in the story. 

Shakespeare's plays are riddled with mistaken identities and people in disguise.  This chapter makes me think of "The Tempest," but perhaps I ought to be considering the "Comedy of Errors." Maybe there are twin pregnant highborn ladies each with identical twin wetnurses named Wylla. ;)

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New things that struck me in rereading this chapter, other Davos chapters, and "The Tempest. "

1. I now understand why Tyrion loves to call Cercei his "sweet sister" all of the time:

'Lord Godric seemed amused. "This is Sisterton, on Sweetsister. "

"I know it is." There was nothing sweet about Sisterton, though.  It was a vile town, a sty, small and mean and rank with the odors of pig shit and rotting fish.'

2. House Borrell's sigil is a spider crab.  Varys is The Spider. I think the wreckers and smugglers also know the value of information and secrets.

3. We are reminded in this chapter that Mel seemed to control the wind with blood magic. Worth wondering about Borrell: "Storms were sacred on the Sisters before the Andale came. Our gods of old were the Lady of the Waves and the Lord of the Skies. They made storms every time they mated."  He leaned forward. "These kings never bother with the Sisters. Why should they? We are small and poor. And yet you're here. Delivered to me by the storms." Delivered to you by a friend, Davos thought. 

Lord Godric turned to his captain. "Leave this man with me. He was never here."

Was Saan acting as a "friend" to Borrell? Or to Davos? Neither or both? Is there more to Borrell's activities than just the false fires and the Night Lamp? Something relating to his old gods? Why webbed feet?  Seems more like a merman than Manderly.

I assume lots of people in the past were "never here." 

4.  Extortion? Borrell hangs people who aren't his friends from the Gallows Gate. Like Jonah, Davos is miraculously spit out from "The Belly of the Whale."  Borrell seems to be playing both sides.  Rhaegar Frey ate with him. Is he really just doing them all a favor letting them go? Spiders weave webs to catch their prey. Or is he truly just trying to stay out of wars? Doesn't really have loyalty to any outside house or king. "The maesters say the Rape of the Three Sisters was two thousand years ago, but Sisterton has not forgotten. We were a free people before that, with our kings ruling over us."

5. In Shakespeare's "Tempest," we begin with a storm driving ships aground.  Prospero (a former king driven out unfairly, often believed by critics to represent God exiled from wrongdoers' hearts, "Godric?") has the ability to control spirits (including Ariel, the lion of God), and Ariel follows his orders to smash the ships of Prospero's enemies (the new king, his family, and his partner in crime) without harming the passengers. The passengers are separated from one another and think others have died "Full fathom five thy father lies, of his bones are coral made. Those are pearls that were his eyes.."  Prospero contrives to have his daughter, Miranda, fall in love with the heir to the throne, and in the end the parties are reconciled through a marriage.  I am not a Shakespeare expert, so others please make corrections or additions as proper.

Godric is fishing for a husband for his daughter's daughter.

Just wondering if there is something there?  

No more time now.

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18 minutes ago, SummerSphinx said:

1. I now understand why Tyrion loves to call Cercei his "sweet sister" all of the time:

'Lord Godric seemed amused. "This is Sisterton, on Sweetsister. "

"I know it is." There was nothing sweet about Sisterton, though.  It was a vile town, a sty, small and mean and rank with the odors of pig shit and rotting fish.'

YES.   Recall that Viserys refers to Dany this way about 99% of the time as well.  Jaime also begins to use it with regard to Cersei in some of his latter chapters.   It's a term of derision and/or loathing.

Sisterton/Sweetsister/the Sisters also convey "otherness", difference, separation, exile - they are part of the 7 Kingdoms but don't embrace it or act like it.    This allows less than savory activities to be carried out mostly unnoticed or cared about.   Even Lord Borrell is aware:  "These kings never bother with the Sisters. Why should they? We are small and poor."  



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1 hour ago, SummerSphinx said:

New things that struck me in rereading this chapter, other Davos chapters, and "The Tempest. "

1. I now understand why Tyrion loves to call Cercei his "sweet sister" all of the time:

'Lord Godric seemed amused. "This is Sisterton, on Sweetsister. "

"I know it is." There was nothing sweet about Sisterton, though.  It was a vile town, a sty, small and mean and rank with the odors of pig shit and rotting fish.'

2. House Borrell's sigil is a spider crab.  Varys is The Spider. I think the wreckers and smugglers also know the value of information and secrets.

3. We are reminded in this chapter that Mel seemed to control the wind with blood magic. Worth wondering about Borrell: "Storms were sacred on the Sisters before the Andale came. Our gods of old were the Lady of the Waves and the Lord of the Skies. They made storms every time they mated."  He leaned forward. "These kings never bother with the Sisters. Why should they? We are small and poor. And yet you're here. Delivered to me by the storms." Delivered to you by a friend, Davos thought. 

Lord Godric turned to his captain. "Leave this man with me. He was never here."

Was Saan acting as a "friend" to Borrell? Or to Davos? Neither or both? Is there more to Borrell's activities than just the false fires and the Night Lamp? Something relating to his old gods? Why webbed feet?  Seems more like a merman than Manderly.

I assume lots of people in the past were "never here." 

4.  Extortion? Borrell hangs people who aren't his friends from the Gallows Gate. Like Jonah, Davos is miraculously spit out from "The Belly of the Whale."  Borrell seems to be playing both sides.  Rhaegar Frey ate with him. Is he really just doing them all a favor letting them go? Spiders weave webs to catch their prey. Or is he truly just trying to stay out of wars? Doesn't really have loyalty to any outside house or king. "The maesters say the Rape of the Three Sisters was two thousand years ago, but Sisterton has not forgotten. We were a free people before that, with our kings ruling over us."

5. In Shakespeare's "Tempest," we begin with a storm driving ships aground.  Prospero (a former king driven out unfairly, often believed by critics to represent God exiled from wrongdoers' hearts, "Godric?") has the ability to control spirits (including Ariel, the lion of God), and Ariel follows his orders to smash the ships of Prospero's enemies (the new king, his family, and his partner in crime) without harming the passengers. The passengers are separated from one another and think others have died "Full fathom five thy father lies, of his bones are coral made. Those are pearls that were his eyes.."  Prospero contrives to have his daughter, Miranda, fall in love with the heir to the throne, and in the end the parties are reconciled through a marriage.  I am not a Shakespeare expert, so others please make corrections or additions as proper.

Godric is fishing for a husband for his daughter's daughter.

Just wondering if there is something there?  

No more time now.

Very nice analysis. Very nice. 

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I believe one of the purposes of this chapter was to call the validity of Robert's Rebellion into question. The main reason most reader's side with Robert and Ned is because they have been inside the heads of people who sided with Robert and Ned in the rebellion. We have been given very few glimpses into the motivations of loyalists or people who sat it out on the sidelines. For the most part, the chapters that suggest the rebellion was perhaps not so justified are met with the attitude they are "pointless" or "filler". Another one of these chapters is Nimble Dick. The most important information to take from this chapter is Godric's father's view of Aerys. He did not see Aerys as mad. He saw him as a monarch. Harsh to those who opposed him and generous to those who pleased him.

I honestly expect that we will find out that Robert and Ned were already in rebellion and looking for Jon Arryn to join them when Aerys called for their heads.

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On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 3:14 PM, Lord Varys said:

That is unlikely due to the fact that George usually doesn't have such jumps ahead in time for his POVs. And it would be doubly unlikely in case of Rickon and Skagos due to the fact that he just hinted at Rickon's location. We are supposed to guess at that. It would be utterly ridiculous to jump from Davos being afraid of cannibals to Davos chilling near Winterfell.

That would have worked if Rickon had, in fact, been at White Harbor.

But the way things are I'm pretty sure the next Davos chapter is going to cover Davos' journey to Skagos. Keep in mind that there is most likely also an additional plot point to the introduction of the Skagosi. They won't be 10,000 additional Stark loyalists, but there will be some warriors there who end up going to play an important role in the story to come - but most certainly not in the battle(s) near Winterfell.

The timeline makes me think Davos must have gotten to Skagos some time ago.  Unless he was significantly delayed in leaving WH he should have arrived in Skagos by or more likely before the Manderly men reach WF.  Sailing is much quicker than riding or walking, and the barge they took up the White Knife has to go against the current of the river. 

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6 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The timeline makes me think Davos must have gotten to Skagos some time ago.  Unless he was significantly delayed in leaving WH he should have arrived in Skagos by or more likely before the Manderly men reach WF.  Sailing is much quicker than riding or walking, and the barge they took up the White Knife has to go against the current of the river. 

Sure, that's self-evident. Yet this doesn't mean George has to skip Davos' journey to Skagos in the chapters. He usually doesn't do that kind of thing and the the various characters aren't exactly at the same point in time. Just look how far back in time 'The Prophet' took place.

I expect George to put Davos 1, Alayne 1, Bran 1, and Samwell 1 at the beginning of TWoW, both because those chapters are likely to take place before the final chapters of TWoW as well as because we haven't met those characters for quite a while. The same should go for Brienne 1 or Jaime 1 which are also likely to have taken place prior the ending of ADwD considering that Jaime might have met Catelyn mere hours after the end of his last chapter, and I take it as given that we'll get Jaime's meeting with Catelyn in real time and not as a flashback.

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24 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The timeline makes me think Davos must have gotten to Skagos some time ago.  Unless he was significantly delayed in leaving WH he should have arrived in Skagos by or more likely before the Manderly men reach WF.  Sailing is much quicker than riding or walking, and the barge they took up the White Knife has to go against the current of the river. 

Absolutely. 

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16 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Sure, that's self-evident. Yet this doesn't mean George has to skip Davos' journey to Skagos in the chapters. He usually doesn't do that kind of thing and the the various characters aren't exactly at the same point in time. Just look how far back in time 'The Prophet' took place.

I expect George to put Davos 1, Alayne 1, Bran 1, and Samwell 1 at the beginning of TWoW, both because those chapters are likely to take place before the final chapters of TWoW as well as because we haven't met those characters for quite a while. The same should go for Brienne 1 or Jaime 1 which are also likely to have taken place prior the ending of ADwD considering that Jaime might have met Catelyn mere hours after the end of his last chapter, and I take it as given that we'll get Jaime's meeting with Catelyn in real time and not as a flashback.

It might not be the norm for him to skip journeys but he definitely does it.  Davos himself is arriving at the sisters in his first chapter and recounts the journey, then arrives in WH in the 2nd with no journey, Stannis just shows up at CB when last we saw him at Dragonstone, and Quentyns chapters had tons of flashbacks.  In his first we get their journey to Volantis, in his 2nd we get their journey to Astapor and the siege and storming of the city all as a flashback.

What I find interesting here is that he seems to have ended the book on cliffhangers for most people.  What is Brienne doing with Jaime, whats gonna happen to Dany, Jon, the battle of Mereen, battle of Ice, etc etc.  If this is the best cliffhanger spot for Davos it must mean that something significant is going to happen in the next chapter that will clear things up for us, and I think that means he must find Rickon under positive circumstances, or find out that Rickon is dead in the next chapter.

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