The Amber Compendium of Norse Myth: Chapter I, Yggdrasil

[Pain killer Jane]

8 hours ago, LmL said:

Yeah, super nice one. I think I noticed that a long time ago, but it's been a long time so who knows. Thanks for pointing that out - it fits with Dany as an Azor Ahai person at this point, an analog to the reborn red comet. She's ready to reeach out and touch the moon. @ravenous reader and I have an ongoing convo about her deep impact Drogon theory and related ideas about the Stallion Who Mounts the World having something to do with Bran as well as Drogon and Dany. The greenseer riding Yggdrasil (weirwoodnet) is riding Odin's horse, the stallion who mounts the world and the universe. That's Bran. 

You know both Bran's greenseeing and Danny's Stallion Who Mounts the World is rife with cannibalism which another one of those things by which one gains magical power. 

[Frey family reunion]

5 hours ago, LmL said:

Agree on Dywen - he can smell the wights and others coming too, very sensitive to the woods. 

As to the battle you reference, we know York = Stark, so the white rose marks a victory for House Stark, perhaps?  The lightning striking the tree... I mean its loaded. It's the fire of the gods, the weirwood, lightning connects to the others also... Starks are wrapped up in all of that for sure, but as to exactly how... 

The white roses growing over the wounded tree reminds me of the flowers growing over the tomb of Tristifer the Hammer of Justice. 

Ok, that's nice... "Garth, can you hear me in there?? Halllooo??"

I'm not saying Dywen is a Green Man, but I think his character is meant to invoke the traditional Green Man legend

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But it was Dywen who emerged from the greenery...

"Ah, it's you, Lord Snow."  Dywen smiled an oaken smile;

But Martin has a few other Green Man characters:  Howland Reed and Tom O' Sevenstreams come to mind first and foremost.

My suspicion is that the wild white roses, might not imply that he Starks will come out as victors in an upcoming war, mainly because Martin seems to hate wars and might have an argument that no side will come out as a winner.  Instead, I think the wild roses at the Towton battlefield have almost symbolized a rebirth after the considerable death at Towton.  And Towton could have been the bloodiest battle in Britain's history.  

Now Bronte's imagery of the split chestnut tree is interesting.  The chestnut tree apparently may have symbolized the marriage union of the two main characters, thus the lightning strike tended to be a major blow to such union.  But the tree was still together, even though one side might die in a rot. 

As you stated perhaps we are looking at a major cataclysm involving the weirwoods, and the greenseer's marriage to the trees.

So perhaps the author is hinting at a rebirth after whatever cataclysm is coming.

[LmL]

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

I'm not saying Dywen is a Green Man, but I think his character is meant to invoke the traditional Green Man legend

Oh yeah for sure - we are speaking in the same terms. Have you read my Sacred Order of Green Zombies essay / listened to the podcast? I have an interesting take on green man folklore and how in provides a context for all the zombies and resurrection in the story, most of Jon's and the original last hero's (I believe he was an undead skinchanger like Jon will soon be). 

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

But Martin has a few other Green Man characters:  Howland Reed and Tom O' Sevenstreams come to mind first and foremost.

Like I said, have you listened to.... ? There are actually a tone of references to green man lore, and I'm sure I don't have them all. I would however love to hear your thoughts on those 2 characters, since my research centered on Garth, the Green Men, the Starks, and the Nights Watch. We've got a Greenbeard and a one-eyed Jack be Lucky i nthe Brotherhood too. 

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

My suspicion is that the wild white roses, might not imply that he Starks will come out as victors in an upcoming war, mainly because Martin seems to hate wars and might have an argument that no side will come out as a winner.  Instead, I think the wild roses at the Towton battlefield have almost symbolized a rebirth after the considerable death at Towton.  And Towton could have been the bloodiest battle in Britain's history.  

That makes sense actually. Tristifier is the Hammer of Justice - a hammer of the Water clue, in this case regarding the neck (that's why he is Tristifer (like Lucifer) MUDD - this is about the dragon meteor that landed in the mud, i.e. severed the Neck of Westeros. His tomb is in a stand of ash, and this seems to be a dual reference to the rising column of ash from the meteor impacts and also the ash tree Yggdrasil (I've only just realized martin is doing an overlap thing). So, those roses would signify rebirth after the meteor strike, which makes a great deal of sense. Now, we need to zero in on what the white roses might mean more specifically to ASOIAF.  Anything white makes me think of the Others first off, but they aren't the only white thing. 

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

Now Bronte's imagery of the split chestnut tree is interesting.  The chestnut tree apparently may have symbolized the marriage union of the two main characters, thus the lightning strike tended to be a major blow to such union.  But the tree was still together, even though one side might die in a rot. 

As you stated perhaps we are looking at a major cataclysm involving the weirwoods, and the greenseer's marriage to the trees.

So perhaps the author is hinting at a rebirth after whatever cataclysm is coming.

 

[Pain killer Jane]

16 minutes ago, LmL said:

Tristifier is the Hammer of Justice - a hammer of the Water clue, in this case regarding the neck (that's why he is Tristifer (like Lucifer) MUDD - this is about the dragon meteor that landed in the mud, i.e. severed the Neck of Westeros.

Perhaps we should look at Benedict I Justman as a clue as well. 

16 minutes ago, LmL said:

So, those roses would signify rebirth after the meteor strike, which makes a great deal of sense. Now, we need to zero in on what the white roses might mean more specifically to ASOIAF.  Anything white makes me think of the Others first off, but they aren't the only white thing. 

Being a rebirth makes sense since in Greek mythology there is one mythology that when Aphrodite was born from the sea-foam that was actually the semen of the severed genitalia of Ouranos, that sea foam was made into white rose bushes. So if a broken sword resembles a lighting struck tree and a broken sword doubles as a euphemism for castration than the white roses could be semen. And chestnuts have been used in place of balls in conversations in rl. 

And it would make sense that the white roses also represent sea foam as well if we consider that a lighting struck tree is also meant to represent the burning brand of the Ironborn. 

[LmL]

1 minute ago, Pain killer Jane said:

Perhaps we should look at Benedict I Justman as a clue as well. 

Being a rebirth makes sense since in Greek mythology there is one mythology that when Aphrodite was born from the sea-foam that was actually the semen of the severed genitalia of Ouranos, that sea foam was made into white rose bushes. So if a broken sword resembles a lighting struck tree and a broken sword doubles as a euphemism for castration than the white roses could be semen. And chestnuts have been used in place of balls in conversations in rl. 

Ok, that might be it - you know I am all over the Aphrodite foam born thing, but I did not know about the white rose bush.  That has to be it, because the Morningstar symbolism has all been grafted on to the meteors and comet.  The lightbringer meteors landing is very much like the Evenstar descending from heaven, and Dany has a nice bit of Aphrodite symbolism ("starlight and seafoam " ) As I was saying, the hammer is a symbol of a meteor impact, so this is absolutely the right place to see signs of Aphrodite's birth. The meteors are absolutely star seed - the seed of a god - and I believe some of the castration allusions in the books refer to this legend also. When Drogo is burnt on the pyre, I noticed that the white dragon was placed in between his legs. The white worm, if you will.  

It's the same with the white roses on the lightning blasted tree.  The lighting / thunderbolt is a symbol of meteor strike, so seeing white roses growing where it 'landed' signifies Aphrodite's birth. 

Very nice @Pain killer Jane and @Frey family reunion

[Pain killer Jane]

20 minutes ago, LmL said:

When Drogo is burnt on the pyre, I noticed that the white dragon was placed in between his legs. The white worm, if you will.  

lol. The white dragon was also the one suckling at her breast when he was born so we might have to look at that as well.

20 minutes ago, LmL said:

It's the same with the white roses on the lightning blasted tree.  The lighting / thunderbolt is a symbol of meteor strike, so seeing white roses growing where it 'landed' signifies Aphrodite's birth. 

Its kind of insane to think about that a son killed a father and love was born. 

Btw another myth has Chloris turning a dead tree nymph into a rose. So that may lead to the association of the white rose and others and reinforce The Drowned man-Other connection. And the blue winter rose being blue like the eyes of death because a Chloris was the nymph considered to be Flora akin to Persephone and therefore was associated with Underworld. So this would equate Lyanna and NQ. 

Another myth, that is relevant is the devil boar that you mentioned in the second episode of your Sacred Order of Green Zombies. Adonis, Aphrodite's lover was killed by a devil boar sent by Ares (Aphrodite is kind of a triple goddess as she is Aphrodite the daughter of Zeus, Aphrodite of the sea foam and Venus. If we consider the Aphrodite in this story to be the daughter of Zeus than that would make Ares, her brother. BSE and the AE). Aphrodite rushed to help Adonis and cut herself and her blood made red rose and the mixture of her tears and his blood made anemones. 

[Bluetiger]

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The wooden watchtower was the tallest thing this side of the mountains, rising twenty feet above the biggest sentinels and soldier pines in the surrounding woods. "There, Captain," said Cromm, when she made the platform. Asha saw only trees and shadows, the moonlit hills and the snowy peaks beyond. Then she realized that trees were creeping closer. "Oho," she laughed, "these mountain goats have cloaked themselves in pine boughs." The woods were on the move, creeping toward the castle like a slow green tide. She thought back to a tale she had heard as a child, about the children of the forest and their battles with the First Men, when the greenseers turned the trees to warriors. 

(The Dance with Dragons, Wayward Bride)

Apart from curious COTF and Greenseers metaphore, we get another reference there - to Irish mythology.

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Crom Cruach (Old Irish Cromm Crúaich /ˈkɾˠɔmˠ ˈkɾˠuəç/) was a god of pre-Christian Ireland. According to Christian writers, he was propitiated with human sacrifice and his worship was ended by Saint Patrick.

He is also referred to as Crom Cróich, Cenn Cruach/Cróich (/ˈkʲɛnˠː ˈkɾˠuəx/) and Cenncroithi (/ˈkʲɛnˠː ˈkɾˠɔθʲɨ/). He is related to the later mythological and folkloric figure Crom Dubh. The festival for Crom Cruach is called Domhnach Crom Dubh, Crom Dubh Sunday.

The references in the dinsenchas ("place-lore") poem in the 12th century to sacrifice in exchange for milk and grain suggest that Crom had a function as fertility god. The description of his image as a gold figure surrounded by twelve stone or bronze figures has been interpreted by some as representing the sun surrounded by the signs of the zodiac, suggesting a function as solar deity.

Crom Cruach's name takes several forms and can be interpreted in several ways. Crom (or cromm) can mean "bent, crooked, stooped". Cenn can mean "head" or "the head, chief". Cruach (or crúach) can be an adjective, "bloody, gory", or a noun, meaning variously "slaughter", "stack of corn", or "pile, heap, mound". Plausible meanings include "bloody crooked one", "crooked stack of corn", "crooked one of the mound", "bloody head", "head of the stack of corn" or "head of the mound".

According to an Irish dinsenchas ("place-lore") poem in the 12th century Book of Leinster, Crom Cruach's cult image, consisting of a gold figure surrounded by twelve stone figures, stood on Magh Slécht ("the plain of prostration") in County Cavan, and was propitiated with first-born sacrifice in exchange for good yields of milk and grain. Crom Cruach is described as a wizened god, hidden by mists, and is said to have been worshipped since the time of Érimón. An early High King, Tigernmas, along with three quarters of his army, is said to have died while worshipping Crom on Samhain eve, but worship continued until the cult image was destroyed by St. Patrick with a sledgehammer.

This incident figures prominently in medieval legends about St. Patrick, although it does not appear in his own writings, nor in the two 7th century biographies by Muirchu and Tírechán. In the 9th century Tripartite Life of Saint Patrick the deity is called Cenn Cruach, and his cult image consists of a central figure covered with gold and silver, surrounded by twelve bronze figures. When Patrick approaches it he raises his crozier, the central figure falls face-down, with the imprint of the crozier left in it, and the surrounding figures sink into the earth. The "demon" who inhabits the image appears, but Patrick curses him and casts him to hell. Jocelin's 12th century Life and Acts of St. Patrick tells much the same story. Here the god is called Cenncroithi, interpreted as "the head of all gods", and when his image falls the silver and gold covering it crumble to dust, with the imprint of the crozier left on bare stone.

In the old Irish tale from the Book of Lismore, "The Siege of Druim Damhgaire or Knocklong" (Forbhais Droma Dámhgháire), Crom is associated with Moloch.

(Wikipedia: Crom Cruach)

Also:

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In Irish mythology, Balor (modern spelling: Balar) was king of named Fomorians, a group of supernatural beings. He is often described as a giant with a large eye in his forehead that wreaks destruction when opened. He has been interpreted as a god or personification of drought and blight.

It is suggested that Balor comes from Common Celtic *Baleros, meaning "the deadly one", cognate with Old Irish at-baill (dies) and Welsh ball (death, plague).

He is also referred to as Balor Béimnech (Balor the smiter), Balor Balcbéimnech (Balor the strong smiter) and Balor Birugderc (Balor of the piercing eye). The latter has led to the English name Balor of the Evil Eye.

Balor is said to be the son of Buarainech and husband of Cethlenn. Balor is described as a giant with an eye in the middle of his forehead. This eye wreaks destruction when opened. The Cath Maige Tuired calls it a "destructive" and "poisonous" eye that no army can withstand, and says that it takes four men to lift the eyelid. In later folklore it is described as follows: "It was always covered with seven cloaks to keep it cool. He took the cloaks off one by one. At the first, ferns began to wither. At the second, grass began to redden. At the third, wood and trees began to heat up. At the fourth, smoke came out of wood and trees. At the fifth, everything got red hot. At the sixth...... At the seventh, the whole land caught fire".

Balor hears a prophecy that he would be killed by his grandson. To avoid his fate, he locks his only daughter, Ethniu, in a tower on Tory Island to keep her from becoming pregnant. One day, Balor steals a magical cow of abundance, the Glas Gaibhnenn, from Goibniu the smith. He takes it to his fortress on Tory Island. Cian, who was guarding the cow for Goibniu, sets out to get it back. With the help of the druidess Biróg and the sea god Manannán, Cian enters the tower and finds Ethniu. They have sex, and she gives birth to three sons. Balor attempts to drown the boys in the sea, but one is saved and is raised as a foster-son by Manannán. He grows up to become Lugh.

Lugh eventually becomes king of the Tuatha Dé Danann. He leads the Tuath Dé in the second Battle of Mag Tuired against the Fomorians, who are led by Balor. Ogma disarms Balor during this battle, but Balor kills Nuada with his eye. Lugh kills Balor by casting a sling, or a spear crafted by Gobniu, through his eye. Balor's eye destroys the Fomorian army. Lugh then beheads Balor.

One legend tells that, when Balor was slain by Lugh, Balor's eye was still open when he fell face first into the ground. Thus his deadly eye beam burned a hole into the earth. Long after, the hole filled with water and became a lake which is now known as Loch na Súil, or "Lake of the Eye", in County Sligo.

In his book The Myths of the Gods: Structures in Irish Mythology, Alan Ward interprets Balor as the god of drought and blight. He interprets the tale of Balor as follows: The Drought God (Balor) seizes the cow of fruitfulness (Glas Gaibhnenn) and shuts her in his prison. The Sun God (Cian) rescues the cow with help from the Sea God (Manannán) – water being the natural enemy of drought. The Sun God and a Water Goddess (Ethniu), attempt to produce a son—the Storm God (Lugh)—who will overcome the Drought God. They succeed in spiriting the future Storm God away to the domain of the Sea God, where the Drought God cannot reach him. The Storm God and Drought God at last meet in battle. The Smith God (Gobniu) forges the thunderbolt and the Storm God uses it to unleash the storm and kill drought, at least temporarily.

The folklorist Alexander Hagerty Krappe (1894–1947) discusses the Balor legend in his book Balor With the Evil Eye: Studies in Celtic and French Literature (1927). Krappe believes Balor comes from a very ancient myth—perhaps as old as agriculture—of a woman (the earth) shut away by an old man (the old year), impregnated by another man, whose child (the new year), then kills the old man. Other versions of this myth are said to be found in the tales of Gilgamesh, Osiris, Balder and Danaë. Moreover, according to Krappe, Balor is related to Janus, Kronos, the Serbian monster "Vy," the Welsh Ysbaddaden, and other versions of a two-headed god with an evil eye. Krappe also suggests that the woman may originally have been a cow goddess, such as Hathor, Io or Hera.

(Wikipedia: Balor)

This sounds like Euron Crow's Eye + Baelor the Blessed and Maidenvault + Gods Eye creation

[Bluetiger]

@LmL, I wonder whether you're familiar with book called 'Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel' by Ignatius L. Donelly: 

(Maybe characters like Donal Noye, Donel Greyjoy and Donella Hornwood are a nod to him)

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From Wikipedia (it has link to full text, as the book is so old that no one publishes it)

In Ragnarok, Donnelly argues that an enormous comet hit the earth 12,000 years ago, resulting in widespread fires, floods, poisonous gases, and unusually vicious and prolonged winters. The catastrophe destroyed a more advanced civilization, forcing its terrified population to seek shelter in caves. As cave-dwellers, they lose all knowledge of art, literature, music, philosophy, and engineering.

He cites as evidence 900-foot-deep cracks radiating out from the Great Lakes, and stretching for many miles away. He admits it has been proposed that ice-sheets caused these cracks, but suggests that this explanation is improbable, likening them instead to 'cracks in a window which has been struck with a stone.' If ice sheets could produce such cracks, he asks, why haven't similar cracks been found anywhere else on the globe? He adds to this a discussion of surface rocks in New York City, which seem to have undergone a radical chemical change—the feldspar has been converted into slate and the mica has separated out from the iron, as if they had undergone tremendous heat and pressure, as they likely would in the event that a comet struck the earth. He rules out other theories that could have caused this, such as nitric acid and warm rains, by pointing out that this is an isolated incident, whereas warm rains can occur at any time and place and there's no archaeological evidence for the nitric acid's origins.

He points out many legends and myths from various cultures, such as Zoroastrian, Pictish,Hindu, and Ancient Greece, that are all suggestive of a comet striking the earth, the earth catching fire, poisonous gases choking people, and floods and tidal waves swamping large areas. He also points out early culture's tendency to heliotheism, which evolved from an insane gratitude to the Sun, after so many horrific days without it.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnarok%3A_The_Age_of_Fire_and_Gravel?wprov=sfla1)

 

This chapter is especially interesting, as it suggests that Ragnarok is in fact the comet hitting the Earth. 

http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/rag/rag18.htm

Of course, with our modern science those theories sound outdated - but GRRM said that the seasons and Long Night are magical in origin, so there's no reason why he couldn't use this interpretation of myth as his inspiration.

 

Some fragments to lure you i... I mean interest:

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THERE is in the legends of the Scandinavians a marvelous record of the coming of the Comet. It has been repeated generation after generation, translated into all languages, commented on, criticised, but never understood. It has been regarded as a wild, unmeaning rhapsody of words, or as a premonition of some future earth catastrophe.

But look at it!

The very name is significant. According to Professor Anderson's etymology of the word, it means "the darkness of the gods"; from regin, gods, and rökr, darkness; but it may, more properly, be derived from the Icelandic, Danish, and Swedish regn, a rain, and rök, smoke, or dust; and it may mean the rain of dust, for the clay came first as dust; it is described in some Indian legends as ashes.

(Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel, Chapter IV)

 

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The world has ripened for destruction; and "Ragnarok," the darkness of the gods, or the rain of dust and ashes, comes to complete the work.

The whole story is told with the utmost detail, and we shall see that it agrees, in almost every particular, with what reason assures us must have happened.

"There are three winters," or years, "during which great wars rage over the world." Mankind has reached a climax of wickedness. Doubtless it is, as now, highly civilized in some regions, while still barbarian in others.

"Then happens that which will seem a great miracle: that the wolf devours the sun, and this will seem a great loss."

That is, the Comet strikes the sun, or approaches so close to it that it seems to do so.

"The other wolf devours the moon, and this, too, will cause great mischief."

We have seen that the comets often come in couples or triplets.

"The stars shall be hurled from heaven."

This refers to the blazing débris of the Comet falling to the earth.

(Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel, Chapter IV)

 

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"The Fenris-wolf gets loose."

This, we shall see, is the name of one of the comets.

"The sea rushes over the earth, for the Midgard-serpent writhes in giant rage, and seeks to gain the land."

The Midgard-serpent is the name of another comet; it strives to reach the earth; its proximity disturbs the oceans. And then follows an inexplicable piece of mythology:

"The ship that is called Naglfar also becomes loose. It is made of the nails of dead men; wherefore it is worth warning that, when a man dies with unpared nails, he supplies a large amount of materials for the building of this ship, which both gods and men wish may be finished as late as possible. But in this flood Naglfar gets afloat. The giant Hrym is its steersman.

"The Fenris-wolf advances with wide-open mouth; the upper jaw reaches to heaven and the lower jaw is on the earth."

That is to say, the comet extends from the earth to the sun.

"He would open it still wider had he room."

That is to say, the space between the sun and earth is not great enough; the tail of the comet reaches even beyond the earth.

"Fire flashes from his eyes and nostrils."

A recent writer says:

"When bright comets happen to come very near to the sun, and are subjected to close observation under the

{p. 144}

advantages which the fine telescopes of the present day afford, a series of remarkable changes is found to take place in their luminous configuration. First, jets of bright light start out from the nucleus, and move through the fainter haze of the coma toward the sun; and then these jets are turned backward round the edge of the coma, and stream from it, behind the comet, until they are fashioned into a tail."[1]

"The Midgard-serpent vomits forth venom, defiling all the air and the sea; he is very terrible, and places himself side by side with the wolf."

The two comets move together, like Biela's two fragments; and they give out poison--the carbureted-hydrogen gas revealed by the spectroscope.

"In the midst of this clash and din the heavens are rent in twain, and the sons of Muspelheim come riding through the opening."

(Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel, Chapter IV)

 

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"Surt rides first, and before him and after him flames burning fire."

Surt is a demon associated with the comet;[3] he is the same as the destructive god of the Egyptian mythology, Set, who destroys the sun. It may mean the blazing nucleus of the comet.

"He has a very good sword that shines brighter than the sun. As they ride over Bifrost it breaks to pieces, as has before been stated."

(...)

Bifrost, we shall have reason to see hereafter, was a prolongation of land westward from Europe, which connected the British Islands with the island-home of the gods, or the godlike race of men.

There are geological proofs that such a land once existed. A writer, Thomas Butler Gunn, in a recent number of an English publication,[1] says:

"Tennyson's 'Voyage of Maeldune' is a magnificent allegorical expansion of this idea; and the laureate has also finely commemorated the old belief in the country of Lyonnesse, extending beyond the bounds of Cornwall:

'A land of old upheaven from the abyss
By fire, to sink into the abyss again;
Where fragments of forgotten peoples dwelt,
And the long mountains ended in a coast
Of ever-shifting sands, and far away
The phantom circle of a moaning sea.'

"Cornishmen of the last generation used to tell stories of strange household relics picked up at the very low tides, nay, even of the quaint habitations seen fathoms deep in the water."

There are those who believe that these Scandinavian Eddas came, in the first instance, from Druidical Briton sources.

The Edda may be interpreted to mean that the Comet strikes the planet west of Europe, and crushes down some land in that quarter, called "the bridge of Bifrost."

Then follows a mighty battle between the gods and the Comet. It can have, of course, but one termination; but it will recur again and again in the legends of different nations. It was necessary that the gods, the protectors of mankind, should struggle to defend them against these strange and terrible enemies. 

(...)

The Edda continues:

"The sons of Muspel direct their course to the plain which is called Vigrid. Thither repair also the Fenris-wolf and the Midgard-serpent."

Both the comets have fallen on the earth.

"To this place have also come Loke" (the evil genius of the Norse mythology) "and Hrym, and with him all the Frost giants. In Loke's company are all the friends of Hel" (the goddess of death). "The sons of Muspel have then their efficient bands alone by themselves. The plain Vigrid is one hundred miles (rasts) on each side."

That is to say, all these evil forces, the comets, the fire, the devil, and death, have taken possession of the great plain, the heart of the civilized land. The scene is located in this spot, because probably it was from this spot the legends were afterward dispersed to all the world.

It is necessary for the defenders of mankind to rouse themselves. There is no time to be lost, and, accordingly, we learn--

"While these things are happening, Heimdal" (he was the guardian of the Bifrost-bridge) "stands up, blows with all his might in the Gjallar-horn and awakens all the gods, who thereupon hold counsel. Odin rides to Mimer's well to ask advice of Mimer for himself and his folk.

"Then quivers the ash Ygdrasil, and all things in heaven and earth tremble."

The ash Ygdrasil is the tree-of-life; the tree of the ancient tree-worship; the tree which stands on the top of the pyramid in the island-birth place of the Aztec race; the tree referred to in the Hindoo legends.

"The asas" (the godlike men) "and the einherjes" (the heroes) "arm themselves and speed forth to the battlefield. Odin rides first; with his golden helmet, resplendent

{p. 147}

byrnie, and his spear Gungner, he advances against the Fenris-wolf" (the first comet). "Thor stands by his side, but can give him no assistance, for he has his hands full in his struggle with the Midgard-serpent" (the second comet). "Frey encounters Surt, and heavy blows are exchanged ere Frey falls. The cause of his death is that he has not that good sword which he gave to Skirner. Even the dog Garm," (another comet), "that was bound before the Gnipa-cave, gets loose. He is the greatest plague. He contends with Tyr, and they kill each other. Thor gets great renown by slaying the Midgard-serpent, but retreats only nine paces when he falls to the earth dead, poisoned by the venom that the serpent blows upon him."

He has breathed the carbureted-hydrogen gas!

"The wolf swallows Odin, and thus causes his death; but Vidar immediately turns and rushes at the wolf, placing one foot on his nether jaw.

(...)

(Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel, Chapter IV)

Mayhaps GRRM got some of his moonkiller comet and Hammer of Waters ideas from here, changing some that with our modern knowledge are obviously stupid (numerous comets hitting Earth became falling meteors from moon destruction by comet/asteroid impact?).

Some more ASOIAF-similar fragments:

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THE first of these, and the most remarkable of all, is the legend of one of the Central American nations, preserved not by tradition alone, but committed to writing at some time in the remote past.

In the "Codex Chimalpopoca," one of the sacred books of the Toltecs, the author, speaking of the destruction which took place by fire, says:

"The third sun" (or era) "is called Quia-Tonatiuh, sun of rain, because there fell a rain of fire; all which existed burned; and there fell a rain of gravel."

(...)

Ahura Mazda is the good god, the kind creator of life and growth; he sent the sun, the fertilizing rain. He created for the ancestors of the Persians a beautiful land, a paradise, a warm and fertile country. But Ahriman, the genius of evil, created Azhidahaka, "the biting snake of winter." "He had triple jaws, three heads, six eyes, the strength of a thousand beings." He brings ruin and winter on the fair land. Then comes a mighty hero, Thraetaona, who kills the snake and rescues the land.

(Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel, Chapter VI, Other Legends of Conflagration)

Compare that to:

Quote

The Dothraki named the comet shierak qiya, the Bleeding Star. The old men muttered that it omened ill, but Daenerys Targaryen had seen it first on the night she had burned Khal Drogo, the night her dragons had awakened. It is the herald of my coming, she told herself as she gazed up into the night sky with wonder in her heart. The gods have sent it to show me the way.

 

Quote

In the Saxon Beowulf we have Grendel, a terrible monster, who comes to the palace-hall at midnight, and drags out the sleepers and sucks their blood. Beowulf assails him. A ghastly struggle follows in the darkness. Grendel is killed. But his fearful mother, the devil's clam, comes to avenge his death; she attacks Beowulf, and is slain.[1] There comes a third dragon, which Beowulf kills, but is stifled with the breath of the monster and dies, rejoicing, however, that the dragon has brought with him a great treasure of gold, which will make his people rich.[2]

[1. Poor, "Sanskrit and Kindred Literatures," p. 315.

2. Ibid.]

{p. 234}

Here, again, are the three comets, the wolf, the snake, and the dog of Ragnarok; the three arrows of the American legends; the three monsters of Hesiod.

When we turn to Egypt we find that their whole religion was constructed upon legends relating to the ages of fire and ice, and the victory of the sun-god over the evil-one. We find everywhere a recollection of the days of cloud, "when darkness dwelt upon the face of the deep."

Osiris, their great god, represented the sun in his darkened or nocturnal or ruined condition, before the coming of day. M. Mariette-Bey says (...)

In the first part of the "Vendidad," first chapter, the author gives an account of the beautiful land, the Aryana Vaejo, which was a land of delights, created by Ahura Mazda (Ormaz). Then "an evil being, Angra-Manyus, (Ahriman,) pill of death, created a mighty serpent, and winter, the work of the Devas."

"Ten months of winter are there, and two months of summer."

[1. Murray's "Mythology," p. 330.

2. Ibid.]

{p. 238}

Then follows this statement:

"Seven months of summer are there; five months of winter were there. The latter are cold as to water, cold as to earth, cold as to trees. There is the heart of winter; then all around falls deep snow. There is the worst of evils."

This signifies that once the people dwelled in a fair and pleasant land. The evil-one sent a mighty serpent; the serpent brought a great winter; there were but two months of summer; gradually this ameliorated, until the winter was five months long and the summer seven months long. The climate is still severe, cold and wet; deep snows fell everywhere. It is an evil time.

 

Balder, the bright sun, (Baal?) is slain by the god Hodur, the blind one; to wit, the Darkness. But Vali, Odin's son, slew Hodur, the Darkness, and avenged Balder. Vali is the son of Rind--the rind--the frozen earth. That is to say, Darkness devours the sun; frost rules the earth; Vali, the new sun, is born of the frost, and kills the Darkness. It is light again. Balder returns after Ragnarok.

And Nana, Balder's wife, the lovely spring-time, died of grief during Balder's absence.

[1. Brinton's "Myths of the New World," p. 200.]

{p. 240}

We have seen that one of the great events of the Egyptian mythology was the search made by Isis, the wife of Osiris, for the dead sun-god in the dark nether world. In the same way, the search for the dead Balder was an important part of the Norse myths. Hermod, mounted on Odin's horse, Sleifner, the slippery-one, (the ice?) set out to find Balder. He rode nine days and nine nights through deep valleys, so dark that he could see nothing;[1] at last he reaches the barred gates of Hel's (death's) dominions. There he found Balder, seated on a throne: he told Hel that all things in the world were grieving for the absence of Balder, the sun. At last, after some delays and obstructions, Balder returns, and the whole world rejoices.

And what more is needed to prove the original unity of the human race, and the vast antiquity of these legends, than the fact that we find the same story, and almost the same names, occurring among the white-haired races of Arctic Europe, and the dark-skinned people of Egypt, Phœnicia, and India. The demon Set, or Seb, of one, comes to us as the Surt of another; the Baal of one is the Balder of another; Isis finds Osiris ruling the underworld as Hermod found Balder on a throne in Hel, the realm of death.

The celebration of the May-day, with its ceremonies, the May-pole, its May-queen, etc., is a survival of the primeval thanksgiving with which afflicted mankind welcomed the return of the sun from his long sleep of death. In Norway,[2] during the middle ages, the whole scene was represented in these May-day festivals: One man represents summer, he is clad in green leaves the other represents winter; he is clad in straw, fit picture of the

[1. "Nome Mythology," p. 288.

2. Ibid., p. 291.]

{p. 241}

misery of the Drift Age. They have each a large company of attendants armed with staves; they fight with each other until winter (the age of darkness and cold) is subdued. They pretend to pluck his eyes out and throw him in the water. Winter is slain.

(...)

That great scholar and mighty poet, John Milton, had the legends of the Greeks and Romans and the unwritten traditions of all peoples in his mind, when he described, in the sixth book of "Paradise Lost," the tremendous conflict between the angels of God and the followers of the Fallen One, the Apostate, the great serpent, the dragon, Lucifer, the bright-shining, the star of the morning, coming, like the comet, from the north.

[ravenous reader]

Revisiting the symbolism of the lightning-blasted chestnut and the white roses:

Could 'white rose' be a pun on 'wight rose' (in which rose is used as a noun in the former and verb in the latter-- as in to 'rise from the dead' or 'rise from the ashes' etc.)?

The quote in question:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Jon III

 

On his way back, Jon swung wide of the column's line of march and took a shorter path through the thick of the wood. The sounds of man and horse diminished, swallowed up by the wet green wild, and soon enough he could hear only the steady wash of rain against leaf and tree and rock. It was midafternoon, yet the forest seemed as dark as dusk. Jon wove a path between rocks and puddles, past great oaks, grey-green sentinels, and black-barked ironwoods. In places the branches wove a canopy overhead and he was given a moment's respite from the drumming of the rain against his head. As he rode past a lightning-blasted chestnut tree overgrown with wild white roses, he heard something rustling in the underbrush. 

@LmL: 'swallowed up by the wet green wild' -- that's the green sea/see into which 'good men have gone before and never come out'!  Also, 'rustling' is a word frequently associated with greenseeing, as is the color scheme 'grey-green'.

With reference to the 'Jane Eyre' allusion which @Frey family reunion has highlighted, the lightning-blasted and -crippled chestnut is compared to Rochester who has become crippled himself and feels unworthy of Jane's affections -- Jane in the equation being the fresh white rose.  While the rose may represent something rising out of another -- i.e. rebirth -- it also represents a mutual enabling by the two parties, as Jane explains:

Quote

Again, as he kissed me, painful thoughts darkened his aspect. "My
scared vision! My crippled strength!" he murmured regretfully.

Like Odin, Rochester was injured in a fire (analogous to the lightning which blasted the chestnut tree) which rendered him temporarily blind and permanently crippled, having lost a hand (a bit like a combination of Bloodraven and Bran).  The chestnut tree allusion in ASOIAF is therefore representative of the greenseers, something which @LynnS and I have speculated previously when we connected the three trees Jon encounters with faces, namely the drunken ash, the watchful chestnut and the avenging oak with the corresponding remaining three towers at Moat Cailin, namely the drunken tower, the gatehouse tower and the children's tower.

 According to our mapping of the similarities, the chestnut tree would be analogous to the gatehouse tower, both of which demonstrate prominent greenseer motifs.  In the case of the chestnut tree, it's slender, bare and in its branches houses a raven who recognises and flies to Jon (remember, Bran is the one to 'bridge the distance' and he knows the shortcut from the 'rookery to the belltower'; Jon and Bran working in tandem).  Similarly, the gatehouse tower is an old 'gnarled' thing with a white 'ghostskin' overgrowing it ('gnarled' is a very prominent greenseer marker; e.g. the hand pulling Jon out of his dream is 'gnarled'; Winterfell and its heart tree are described as 'gnarled', the ghost of high heart who resembles a weirwood, also stooped, disfigured and 'gnarled,' etc; there are countless examples of this pattern -- please perform a search to satisfy yourself, should you still harbor doubts).

Herewith, the relevant passages:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon V

The wagons continued on their slow way south through frozen mud and blowing snow. A mile farther on, they came upon a second face, carved into a chestnut tree that grew beside an icy stream, where its eyes could watch the old plank bridge that spanned its flow. "Twice as much trouble," announced Dolorous Edd.

The chestnut was leafless and skeletal, but its bare brown limbs were not empty. On a low branch overhanging the stream a raven sat hunched, its feathers ruffled up against the cold. When it spied Jon it spread its wings and gave a scream. When he raised his fist and whistled, the big black bird came flapping down, crying, "Corn, corn, corn."

 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Reek II

Beyond stood the towers.

The Drunkard's Tower leaned as if it were about to collapse, just as it had for half a thousand years. The Children's Tower thrust into the sky as straight as a spear, but its shattered top was open to the wind and rain. The Gatehouse Tower, squat and wide, was the largest of the three, slimy with moss, a gnarled tree growing sideways from the stones of its north side, fragments of broken wall still standing to the east and west. The Karstarks took the Drunkard's Tower and the Umbers the Children's Tower, he recalled. Robb claimed the Gatehouse Tower for his own.

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn VIII

Just beyond, through the mists, she glimpsed the walls and towers of Moat Cailin … or what remained of them. Immense blocks of black basalt, each as large as a crofter's cottage, lay scattered and tumbled like a child's wooden blocks, half-sunk in the soft boggy soil. Nothing else remained of a curtain wall that had once stood as high as Winterfell's. The wooden keep was gone entirely, rotted away a thousand years past, with not so much as a timber to mark where it had stood. All that was left of the great stronghold of the First Men were three towers … three where there had once been twenty, if the taletellers could be believed.

The Gatehouse Tower looked sound enough, and even boasted a few feet of standing wall to either side of it. The Drunkard's Tower, off in the bog where the south and west walls had once met, leaned like a man about to spew a bellyful of wine into the gutter. And the tall, slender Children's Tower, where legend said the children of the forest had once called upon their nameless gods to send the hammer of the waters, had lost half its crown. It looked as if some great beast had taken a bite out of the crenellations along the tower top, and spit the rubble across the bog. All three towers were green with moss. A tree was growing out between the stones on the north side of the Gatehouse Tower, its gnarled limbs festooned with ropy white blankets of ghostskin.

In my opinion, the tree growing out between the stones recapitulates the one at Bloodraven's cave, in addition more importantly to the weirwood sapling 'avatar' representing Bran which Jon/Ghost sees in his so-called 'weirwood sapling' dream:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Jon VII

A weirwood.

It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

Quote

"The cave is warded. They cannot pass." The ranger used his sword to point. "You can see the entrance there. Halfway up, between the weir-woods, that cleft in the rock."

"I see it," said Bran. Ravens were flying in and out.

Hodor shifted his weight. "Hodor."

"A fold in the rock, that's all I see," said Meera. "There's a passage there. Steep and twisty at first, a runnel through the rock. If you can reach it, you'll be safe."

"What about you?"

"The cave is warded."

Meera studied the cleft in the hillside.

According to this interpretation, the chestnut tree, like the gatehouse tower, is strongly suggestive symbolically of greenseers (notably, the tree at the pinnacle of the hill on the Quiet Isle -- for which there is suggestive evidence of it being a former 'hollow hill' greenseer location -- is also a chestnut tree).  

The 'ghostskin' festooning the gatehouse is an evocative image, bringing to mind Jon's wolf 'Ghost' and the skinchanging aspect. In addition, the word 'festoon' specifically alludes to a garland or wreath of flowers, including the sacrificial associations which @Blue Tiger has correctly associated with flowers in the hair and on the head, evoking Spring/May day/ Beltane sacrificial rites, as BT explained in our 'nennymoan' discussion. If the lightning-blasted chestnut tree represents Bran, then the white roses overgrowing it, like the festoon of ghostskin, might represent Jon and possibly hint at Jon's resurrection with some help from Bran and Ghost acting together.

Now, let's return to finish parsing the relevant Jane Eyre passage:

Quote

I caressed, in order to soothe him. I knew of what he was thinking,
and wanted to speak for him, but dared not. As he turned aside his
face a minute, I saw a tear slide from under the sealed eyelid, and
trickle down the manly cheek. My heart swelled.

'The sealed eyelid' -- again the reference to having lost his vision/eye.

'Tear trickle down the manly cheek.  My heart swelled' -- that sounds very archaic and cheesy to the modern ear!

Quote

"I am no better than the old lightning-struck chestnut-tree in
Thornfield orchard," he remarked ere long. "And what right would
that ruin have to bid a budding woodbine cover its decay with
freshness?"

So here Rochester compares himself directly to the ruined, decaying old lightning-struck chestnut tree; and reciprocally compares Jane to the 'fresh budding woodbine'.  

Analogously, I'd argue that Bran is the lightning-struck chestnut with Jon like Jane as the wild rose (in plant terms, 'wild'-growing, because he's a bastard -- the 'wild type' and not the 'cultivated' variety -- in addition to being surprisingly tough and resilient as the 'wild type' of any species tends to be, compared to its overbred and inbred cousins).

Unlike those who insist Daenerys and Jon are the saga's main characters and main couple, I think Bran and Jon together form a kind of central coupling -- in a symbolic, not sexual, sense of course!  Together, I see them constituting 'the Last Hero' -- the lightning-struck tree (the Hand) bolstering up the wild white rose (the King) -- none of the parties more important than the other, but together healing the realm.  As Jane confirms:

Quote

"You are no ruin, sir--no lightning-struck tree: you are green and
vigorous. Plants will grow about your roots, whether you ask them
or not, because they take delight in your bountiful shadow; and as
they grow they will lean towards you, and wind round you, because
your strength offers them so safe a prop."

Bran is the 'green man' -- 'green and vigorous,' nurturing and propping up his brother, the future of House Stark.  'Plants will grow about your roots...'  They will and do indeed.

Accordingly, I return to my first impression of the Tristifer-tomb scene, in which I similarly have interpreted the white roses as being a symbol of Jon's resurgence.  Recall that Catelyn and Robb visit the tomb of a doomed king and reflect on death and the future of House Stark, including arguing about Jon, whom Robb had selected without Catelyn's approval to be his rightful heir.  Grey Wind even jumps on the tomb, expressing by proxy Robb's anger at his mother's prejudice and jealousy, as well as the grey wolf taking his place at the stone king's foot being of grave portent-- recapitulating the stone direwolves in the Winterfell crypt and symbolising Robb's impending death.  Therefore, the dead king Tristifer who won every battle but the last -- just like Robb -- is a dead-ringer for Robb, with the white roses overgrowing him indicating the future.  White roses on a grey sepulchre -- white on grey -- would be the countercharged bastard sigil of House Stark.

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Catelyn V

They reached Oldstones after eight more days of steady rain, and made their camp upon the hill overlooking the Blue Fork, within a ruined stronghold of the ancient river kings. Its foundations remained amongst the weeds to show where the walls and keeps had stood, but the local smallfolk had long ago made off with most of the stones to raise their barns and septs and holdfasts. Yet in the center of what once would have been the castle's yard, a great carved sepulcher still rested, half hidden in waist-high brown grass amongst a stand of ash.

The lid of the sepulcher had been carved into a likeness of the man whose bones lay beneath, but the rain and the wind had done their work. The king had worn a beard, they could see, but otherwise his face was smooth and featureless, with only vague suggestions of a mouth, a nose, eyes, and the crown about the temples. His hands folded over the shaft of a stone warhammer that lay upon his chest. Once the warhammer would have been carved with runes that told its name and history, but all that the centuries had worn away. The stone itself was cracked and crumbling at the corners, discolored here and there by spreading white splotches of lichen, while wild roses crept up over the king's feet almost to his chest.

It was there that Catelyn found Robb, standing somber in the gathering dusk with only Grey Wind beside him. The rain had stopped for once, and he was bareheaded. "Does this castle have a name?" he asked quietly, when she came up to him.

  “Oldstones, all the smallfolk called it when I was a girl, but no doubt it had some other name when it was still a hall of kings.” She had camped here once with her father, on their way to Seagard. Petyr was with us too . . .

    “There’s a song,” he remembered. “‘Jenny of Oldstones, with the flowers in her hair.’”

    “We’re all just songs in the end. If we are lucky.” She had played at being Jenny that day, had even wound flowers in her hair. And Petyr had pretended to be her Prince of Dragonflies. Catelyn could not have been more than twelve, Petyr just a boy.

    Robb studied the sepulcher. “Whose grave is this?”

    “Here lies Tristifer, the Fourth of His Name, King of the Rivers and the Hills.” Her father had told her his story once. “He ruled from the Trident to the Neck, thousands of years before Jenny and her prince, in the days when the kingdoms of the First Men were falling one after the other before the onslaught of the Andals. The Hammer of Justice, they called him. He fought a hundred battles and won nine-and-ninety, or so the singers say, and when he raised this castle it was the strongest in Westeros.” She put a hand on her son’s shoulder. “He died in his hundredth battle, when seven Andal kings joined forces against him. The fifth Tristifer was not his equal, and soon the kingdom was lost, and then the castle, and last of all the line. With Tristifer the Fifth died House Mudd, that had ruled the riverlands for a thousand years before the Andals came.”

    “His heir failed him.” Robb ran a hand over the rough weathered stone. “I had hoped to leave Jeyne with child . . . we tried often enough, but I’m not certain . . .”

    “It does not always happen the first time.” Though it did with you. “Nor even the hundredth. You are very young.”

    “Young, and a king,” he said. “A king must have an heir. If I should die in my next battle, the kingdom must not die with me. By law Sansa is next in line of succession, so Winterfell and the north would pass to her.” His mouth tightened. “To her, and her lord husband. Tyrion Lannister. I cannot allow that. I will not allow that. That dwarf must never have the north.”

    “No,” Catelyn agreed. “You must name another heir, until such time as Jeyne gives you a son.” She considered a moment. “Your father’s father had no siblings, but his father had a sister who married a younger son of Lord Raymar Royce, of the junior branch. They had three daughters, all of whom wed Vale lordlings. A Waynwood and a Corbray, for certain. The youngest . . . it might have been a Templeton, but . . .”

    “Mother.” There was a sharpness in Robb’s tone. “You forget. My father had four sons.”

    She had not forgotten; she had not wanted to look at it, yet there it was. “A Snow is not a Stark.”

    “Jon’s more a Stark than some lordlings from the Vale who have never so much as set eyes on Winterfell.”

    “Jon is a brother of the Night’s Watch, sworn to take no wife and hold no lands. Those who take the black serve for life.”

    “So do the knights of the Kingsguard. That did not stop the Lannisters from stripping the white cloaks from Ser Barristan Selmy and Ser Boros Blount when they had no more use for them. If I send the Watch a hundred men in Jon’s place, I’ll wager they find some way to release him from his vows.”

He is set on this. Catelyn knew how stubborn her son could be. “A bastard cannot inherit.”

    “Not unless he’s legitimized by a royal decree,” said Robb. “There is more precedent for that than for releasing a Sworn Brother from his oath.”

    “Precedent,” she said bitterly. “Yes, Aegon the Fourth legitimized all his bastards on his deathbed. And how much pain, grief, war, and murder grew from that? I know you trust Jon. But can you trust his sons? Or their sons? The Blackfyre pretenders troubled the Targaryens for five generations, until Barristan the Bold slew the last of them on the Stepstones. If you make Jon legitimate, there is no way to turn him bastard again. Should he wed and breed, any sons you may have by Jeyne will never be safe.”

    “Jon would never harm a son of mine.”

    “No more than Theon Greyjoy would harm Bran or Rickon?”

    Grey Wind leapt up atop King Tristifer’s crypt, his teeth bared. Robb’s own face was cold. “That is as cruel as it is unfair. Jon is no Theon.”

    “So you pray. Have you considered your sisters? What of their rights? I agree that the north must not be permitted to pass to the Imp, but what of Arya? By law, she comes after Sansa . . . your own sister, trueborn . . .”

    “. . . and dead. No one has seen or heard of Arya since they cut Father’s head off. Why do you lie to yourself? Arya’s gone, the same as Bran and Rickon, and they’ll kill Sansa too once the dwarf gets a child from her. Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North. I had hoped you would support my choice.”

    “I cannot,” she said. “In all else, Robb. In everything. But not in this . . . this folly. Do not ask it.”

    “I don’t have to. I’m the king.” Robb turned and walked off, Grey Wind bounding down from the tomb and loping after him.

    What have I done? Catelyn thought wearily, as she stood alone by Tristifer’s stone sepulcher. First I anger Edmure, and now Robb, but all I have done is speak the truth. Are men so fragile they cannot bear to hear it? She might have wept then, had not the sky begun to do it for her. It was all she could do to walk back to her tent, and sit there in the silence.

    In the days that followed, Robb was everywhere and anywhere; riding at the head of the van with the Greatjon, scouting with Grey Wind, racing back to Robin Flint and the rearguard. Men said proudly that the Young Wolf was the first to rise each dawn and the last to sleep at night, but Catelyn wondered whether he was sleeping at all. He grows as lean and hungry as his direwolf.

My conclusion is that Jon will survive his other brothers, including Robb, Bran, and Rickon, leaving him as Lord Stark, King of the North, and King of Winter.  I don't think he's the blue rose -- he's the white.  The blue rose stolen from Winterfell by some singer(s) and forced into a marriage (the 'wedding' to the trees) is Bran (he's also the blue rose growing from the chink in the Wall).  

17 hours ago, LmL said:

Tristifier is the Hammer of Justice - a hammer of the Water clue, in this case regarding the neck (that's why he is Tristifer (like Lucifer) MUDD - this is about the dragon meteor that landed in the mud, i.e. severed the Neck of Westeros. His tomb is in a stand of ash, and this seems to be a dual reference to the rising column of ash from the meteor impacts and also the ash tree Yggdrasil (I've only just realized martin is doing an overlap thing). So, those roses would signify rebirth after the meteor strike, which makes a great deal of sense. Now, we need to zero in on what the white roses might mean more specifically to ASOIAF.  Anything white makes me think of the Others first off, but they aren't the only white thing. 

Applying my analysis, as detailed above, to the rebirth scenario, 'white' above all is a symbol of the weirwoods; there's also the pun of 'wight' on 'white,' as we've identified.  Bran -- e.g. in my 'Deep Impact Drogon' scenario, or whatever other scenario you fancy, as long as its a grand self-sacrificial gesture serving to purify the world and return the 'Dawn' -- represents the Hammer of Justice in this equation.  Should he be immolated in his quest to save the world (inversion: instead of destroying it, like his greenseer descendants did previously), Bran would be the tree reduced to ash out of which a new world can sprout.

Traditionally, a split ash tree was seen as a means towards healing.  According to some rituals, a live animal is placed inside the split trunk and sealed over.  The sacrificial animal dies, in exchange for the healing of another.  Analogously, I see Bran as the sacrifice in the tree bole:

Quote

Ash is another tree that was once thought to possess magical powers. If a child was suffering from a hernia or rickets, it would be taken before the sun rose to be passed naked through a split in the trunk of an ash tree. The split would then be bound back together, sealed with clay and left to heal.  As the trunk healed, the child would miraculously recover from its ailment.  Ash was also used to heal lame animals by carving a hole into the trunk and placing a live shrew inside it.  The hole would be sealed over and when the shrew died and the ash healed, the lame animal would come sound again.  Ash faggots were traditionally burned in hearths at Christmas.  They would be bound together with green twigs, and as the ash burned you could make a wish every time one of the twig bindings snapped open.  The single girls of the household would each choose one of the twig bindings, and if you had chosen the first one that burst open in the flames then you would be the first of the girls to get married.  

Ash trees were an important part of Norse myths, because Yggdrasil the World Tree was a mighty ash that grew in the centre of everything and spread out into everything, as its roots grew down into the dark mysteries of the underworld, its branches shaded every part of the world, and its trunk grew so tall that it penetrated heaven itself. Yggdrasil was the sacred place where the Norse gods would come to sit in council and where Odin hung himself in sacrifice, losing an eye when the ravens pecked it out.  Hanging from a sacred tree is a continuing theme in tree mythology and one that carries on into Christian belief, as Jesus was nailed and hung from a tree to make his ultimate sacrifice for the sake of humanity, enabling their redemption.  This symbolism is carried on into the modern tarot where the Hanged Man card drawn in a reading suggests sacrifice, limitations and a time of waiting.

Yggdrasil was also associated with nurturing and abundance, as a miraculous goat that grazed at the foot of the trunk produced mead from its udder rather than milk, and this potent alcoholic beverage was served at the great feasts held by the gods in their Great Hall.  Mead is made from honey and water, and this association with the ash tree may have come from the fact that some species of ash found in the mountains of Greece and in Northern Europe ooze a sticky, sweet substance that is a bit like honey.  Yggdrasil was also said to rain honey down from the skies for the sustenance of mankind below, so this miraculous ash could truly claim to be the tree of life.

Mountain ash is also known by the name rowan and is commonly found growing in Northern England, Scotland and Wales. It is another tree that offers you great protection for your household and can protect you and your family from witchcraft and evil spirits. It was used to protect and help farm livestock, as milkmaids used to tie rowan twigs to their buckets so that the milk would not sour and wreaths woven from rowan twigs were put around pig’s necks to fatten them up faster. Mares and cows would be fed rowan berries while they were giving birth, so that their labour would progress smoothly and the baby animal be born alive and healthy.

From:  http://worldsoffascination.blogspot.com/2013/02/explore-tree-myths-and-superstitions.html

[LmL]

15 hours ago, Blue Tiger said:

Apart from curious COTF and Greenseers metaphore, we get another reference there - to Irish mythology.

Very cool, the name Cromm is too weird to be coincidence, and of course, he sounds a bit familiar.  I believe he is a morningstar deity, actually, which have a lot of overlap with solar deities at times - they are often the child of the sun god.  His rising and falling and his being surrounded by the zodiac sound like Morningstar ideas to me, as is his becoming lord of the underworld. He sounds a lot like Osiris, who is both a corn god and Morningstar deity.  And both his legend and that of Balor sound like inspiration for a meteor lake, don't they?

I also found a lae called "Red Eye Lake," Loch Daerg, and it has a good story too:

http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/republic-of-ireland/donegal/legends/lough-derg.html

It was the last stronghold of the druids - an island in the lake, that is - and it's name comes from a tale about slaying a sea monster.

15 hours ago, Blue Tiger said:

Also:

This sounds like Euron Crow's Eye + Baelor the Blessed and Maidenvault + Gods Eye creation

Yeah, I have to think Martin knows this myth also. Balor locking up hot women... bingo. Why would George turn such a monstrous creature into Balor the Blessed? Is there a decapitated head link with Bran the blessed going on?

The vil eye sounds like Euron or the R'hllorists perception of the Great Other.

[LmL]

13 hours ago, Blue Tiger said:

@LmL, I wonder whether you're familiar with book called 'Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel' by Ignatius L. Donelly: 

(Maybe characters like Donal Noye, Donel Greyjoy and Donella Hornwood are a nod to him)

 

This chapter is especially interesting, as it suggests that Ragnarok is in fact the comet hitting the Earth. 

http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/rag/rag18.htm

Of course, with our modern science those theories sound outdated - but GRRM said that the seasons and Long Night are magical in origin, so there's no reason why he couldn't use this interpretation of myth as his inspiration.

 

Some fragments to lure you i... I mean interest:

 

 

 

Mayhaps GRRM got some of his moonkiller comet and Hammer of Waters ideas from here, changing some that with our modern knowledge are obviously stupid (numerous comets hitting Earth became falling meteors from moon destruction by comet/asteroid impact?).

Some more ASOIAF-similar fragments:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Compare that to:

 

 

 

I have read Atlantis and the Antediluvian World, which reads something like a real world version of my blog, written 100 years ago without the advent of modern science. Which is to say, he got a lot things right intuitively, and other things fabulously wrong. There's a ton of debunked pseudo science in there, but it's all reallllly entertaining and like I said, he intuitively grasos a few things that are only now proving right, such as the comet impact / global flood idea, which is now called the Younger Dryas Comet hypothesis and looks quite compelling.  What you are finding in these quotes is that Donnely was keyed into the concept of mythical astronomy and had a good understanding of how ancient man encoded observation of the stars into their myths. Therefore he is keyed into the right kind of myths.  Really, it just shows that the concept of mythical astronomy is well established, a critical and fundamental part of mythology as a whole. George's application of this concept to fiction is very creative, but at the same time, it's entirely in keeping with tradition. Dragons coming from a moon is standard myth speak, it's not weird or far fetched or conspiratorial. He's reviving a lost art, in a way.

Thanks for bringing this book to my attention, I look forward to reading it now!

[LmL]

3 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Revisiting the symbolism of the lightning-blasted chestnut and the white roses:

Could 'white rose' be a pun on 'wight rose' (in which rose is used as a noun in the former and verb in the latter-- as in to 'rise from the dead' or 'rise from the ashes' etc.)?

The quote in question:

@LmL: 'swallowed up by the wet green wild' -- that's the green sea/see into which 'good men have gone before and never come out'!  Also, 'rustling' is a word frequently associated with greenseeing, as is the color scheme 'grey-green'.

With reference to the 'Jane Eyre' allusion which @Frey family reunion has highlighted, the lightning-blasted and -crippled chestnut is compared to Rochester who has become crippled himself and feels unworthy of Jane's affections -- Jane in the equation being the fresh white rose.  While the rose may represent something rising out of another -- i.e. rebirth -- it also represents a mutual enabling by the two parties, as Jane explains:

Like Odin, Rochester was injured in a fire (analogous to the lightning which blasted the chestnut tree) which rendered him temporarily blind and permanently crippled, having lost a hand (a bit like a combination of Bloodraven and Bran).  The chestnut tree allusion in ASOIAF is therefore representative of the greenseers, something which @LynnS and I have speculated previously when we connected the three trees Jon encounters with faces, namely the drunken ash, the watchful chestnut and the avenging oak with the corresponding remaining three towers at Moat Cailin, namely the drunken tower, the gatehouse tower and the children's tower.

 According to our mapping of the similarities, the chestnut tree would be analogous to the gatehouse tower, both of which demonstrate prominent greenseer motifs.  In the case of the chestnut tree, it's slender, bare and in its branches houses a raven who recognises and flies to Jon (remember, Bran is the one to 'bridge the distance' and he knows the shortcut from the 'rookery to the belltower'; Jon and Bran working in tandem).  Similarly, the gatehouse tower is an old 'gnarled' thing with a white 'ghostskin' overgrowing it ('gnarled' is a very prominent greenseer marker; e.g. the hand pulling Jon out of his dream is 'gnarled'; Winterfell and its heart tree are described as 'gnarled', the ghost of high heart who resembles a weirwood, also stooped, disfigured and 'gnarled,' etc; there are countless examples of this pattern -- please perform a search to satisfy yourself, should you still harbor doubts).

Herewith, the relevant passages:

 

In my opinion, the tree growing out between the stones recapitulates the one at Bloodraven's cave, in addition more importantly to the weirwood sapling 'avatar' representing Bran which Jon/Ghost sees in his so-called 'weirwood sapling' dream:

According to this interpretation, the chestnut tree, like the gatehouse tower, is strongly suggestive symbolically of greenseers (notably, the tree at the pinnacle of the hill on the Quiet Isle -- for which there is suggestive evidence of it being a former 'hollow hill' greenseer location -- is also a chestnut tree).  

The 'ghostskin' festooning the gatehouse is an evocative image, bringing to mind Jon's wolf 'Ghost' and the skinchanging aspect. In addition, the word 'festoon' specifically alludes to a garland or wreath of flowers, including the sacrificial associations which @Blue Tiger has correctly associated with flowers in the hair and on the head, evoking Spring/May day/ Beltane sacrificial rites, as BT explained in our 'nennymoan' discussion. If the lightning-blasted chestnut tree represents Bran, then the white roses overgrowing it, like the festoon of ghostskin, might represent Jon and possibly hint at Jon's resurrection with some help from Bran and Ghost acting together.

Now, let's return to finish parsing the relevant Jane Eyre passage:

'The sealed eyelid' -- again the reference to having lost his vision/eye.

'Tear trickle down the manly cheek.  My heart swelled' -- that sounds very archaic and cheesy to the modern ear!

So here Rochester compares himself directly to the ruined, decaying old lightning-struck chestnut tree; and reciprocally compares Jane to the 'fresh budding woodbine'.  

Analogously, I'd argue that Bran is the lightning-struck chestnut with Jon like Jane as the wild rose (in plant terms, 'wild'-growing, because he's a bastard -- the 'wild type' and not the 'cultivated' variety -- in addition to being surprisingly tough and resilient as the 'wild type' of any species tends to be, compared to its overbred and inbred cousins).

Unlike those who insist Daenerys and Jon are the saga's main characters and main couple, I think Bran and Jon together form a kind of central coupling -- in a symbolic, not sexual, sense of course!  Together, I see them constituting 'the Last Hero' -- the lightning-struck tree (the Hand) bolstering up the wild white rose (the King) -- none of the parties more important than the other, but together healing the realm.  As Jane confirms:

Bran is the 'green man' -- 'green and vigorous,' nurturing and propping up his brother, the future of House Stark.  'Plants will grow about your roots...'  They will and do indeed.

Accordingly, I return to my first impression of the Tristifer-tomb scene, in which I similarly have interpreted the white roses as being a symbol of Jon's resurgence.  Recall that Catelyn and Robb visit the tomb of a doomed king and reflect on death and the future of House Stark, including arguing about Jon, whom Robb had selected without Catelyn's approval to be his rightful heir.  Grey Wind even jumps on the tomb, expressing by proxy Robb's anger at his mother's prejudice and jealousy, as well as the grey wolf taking his place at the stone king's foot being of grave portent-- recapitulating the stone direwolves in the Winterfell crypt and symbolising Robb's impending death.  Therefore, the dead king Tristifer who won every battle but the last -- just like Robb -- is a dead-ringer for Robb, with the white roses overgrowing him indicating the future.  White roses on a grey sepulchre -- white on grey -- would be the countercharged bastard sigil of House Stark.

My conclusion is that Jon will survive his other brothers, including Robb, Bran, and Rickon, leaving him as Lord Stark, King of the North, and King of Winter.  I don't think he's the blue rose -- he's the white.  The blue rose stolen from Winterfell by some singer(s) and forced into a marriage (the 'wedding' to the trees) is Bran (he's also the blue rose growing from the chink in the Wall).  

Applying my analysis, as detailed above, to the rebirth scenario, 'white' above all is a symbol of the weirwoods; there's also the pun of 'wight' on 'white,' as we've identified.  Bran -- e.g. in my 'Deep Impact Drogon' scenario, or whatever other scenario you fancy, as long as its a grand self-sacrificial gesture serving to purify the world and return the 'Dawn' -- represents the Hammer of Justice in this equation.  Should he be immolated in his quest to save the world (inversion: instead of destroying it, like his greenseer descendants did previously), Bran would be the tree reduced to ash out of which a new world can sprout.

Traditionally, a split ash tree was seen as a means towards healing.  According to some rituals, a live animal is placed inside the split trunk and sealed over.  The sacrificial animal dies, in exchange for the healing of another.  Analogously, I see Bran as the sacrifice in the tree bole:

From:  http://worldsoffascination.blogspot.com/2013/02/explore-tree-myths-and-superstitions.html

Just wanted to say I read this and found it interesting; I will respond when you finally get around to answering my brilliant Nennymoaning later tonight when I have time.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Crom? Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!

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Fire and wind come from the sky, from the gods of the sky. But Crom is your god, Crom and he lives in the earth. Once, giants lived in the Earth, Conan. And in the darkness of chaos, they fooled Crom, and they took from him the enigma of steel. Crom was angered. And the Earth shook. Fire and wind struck down these giants, and they threw their bodies into the waters, but in their rage, the gods forgot the secret of steel and left it on the battlefield. We who found it are just men. Not gods. Not giants. Just men. The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts... [points to sword] This you can trust.

Oh, and Conan's main squeeze in that totally bitchin' movie? Her name was Valeria. Just sayin'. 

[ravenous reader]

2 hours ago, LmL said:

Just wanted to say I read this and found it interesting; I will respond when you finally get around to answering my brilliant Nennymoaning later tonight when I have time.

You crack me up.  Now you want to nennymoan all the time.  If you carry on like this, I will be driven to nennymoaning! (is that your revenge, or 'revange,' as BT puts it...?...did you catch, he's going to create a character after me in his story...sigil of raven carrying anemone in its claws, only to kill off the character most viciously, in 'revange' for having led him down the 'man-eating,' seeweed-entangling nennymoan path...guess I should be flattered!)  

[LmL]

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

You crack me up.  Now you want to nennymoan all the time.  If you carry on like this, I will be driven to nennymoaning! (is that your revenge, or 'revange,' as BT puts it...?...did you catch, he's going to create a character after me in his story...sigil of raven carrying anemone in its claws, only to kill off the character most viciously, in 'revange' for having led him down the 'man-eating,' seeweed-entangling nennymoan path...guess I should be flattered!)  

Yes I noticed all of that, because you had that entire conversation, which is distinctly unrelated to undead skinchangers, on my undead skinchangers thread. 

I hope I am still making you laugh, because my grumpiness is entirely facetious. And yes, I am extracting my revennymoan on you for naggymoaning me about the damn nennymoans and lime wash. I am of course glad that you did, just as you will be glad that I finally explained Patchface's riddles to you. 

Again, you should be laughing. I'm just busting your nennymoans over here.

And no, there is no safe space anymore. 

[LmL]

By the way I am on board with the anemone stuff, that's indeed a good match for Sans'a hairnet of purple snakes / poison black amethysts. Also, an anemone is a perfect symbol for the God's Eye sun/moon conjunction with meteor sunrays sticking out - that's exactly what it looks like. An exploding circle, and the points poison and stab. It's a natural fit.

I also think that wearing the see weed has to refer to skinchanging the trees, the more I think about that the more it makes sense.  It gets the weaving metaphor in, the see metaphor, and the counterculture reference that doubles as an oceanic metaphor. Wearing cloths or skins is an easy skinchanging metaphor to spot, and silver = moonlight most of all. Add in the moon painting the trees silver, and I think you are there. I wonder what the different connotation is comparing the Grey King's tapestries to wearing gowns of see weed? By the way, the Grey King's silver see-weed tapestries were "most pleasing to the eye" - eye, singular. 

By the way, I am also increasingly coming to think that Nissa Nissa was indeed an elf, whether that be a female of the green men race or a cotf or a human - cotf hybrid.  I don't thin she literally was a weirwood, but if the concept of NN doesn't refer to a tree, then it would have to be a woman who could enter the tree for all the NN / WW symbolism we have found to make sense. 

Once I pointed out that the weirwood canopy was on fire, all of the pale skinned, kissed by fire haired moon maidens start looking like weirwood trees. It may be that both these women and weirwoods are symbolizing the moon, and that's why they share symbolism. 

If NN does actually represent a weirwood, it would imply AA tempered his sword in a weirwood. That evokes Odin and Gram, but it could also refer to the idea @ravenous reader and I have been talking about regarding the weirwoods growing up where meteors landed (such as on the Isle of Faces if indeed it is a crater lake). The column of ash rising from the landing spots could be the ash tree weirdrasil. That's what I was saying about the ash grove around tristifer the hammer - that also serves as the rising clouds of ash from the hammer landing. The white rose and the ash trees also serve to show us a weirwood growing up from the landing site.

It's really interesting that in Jon's dream of Bran as a tree, Brantree is growing out of a stone. 

And moving to the other lighting tree with white roses, that too is a meteor landing spot, so if the white roses represent weirwoods, it's the same idea. Whatever the white roses are, they grow up where meteors land, that's the point.

[ravenous reader]

9 minutes ago, LmL said:

Yes I noticed all of that, because you had that entire conversation, which is distinctly unrelated to undead skinchangers, on my undead skinchangers thread. 

Come, come -- it's all happening 'under the see', so it's all in the chthonic realm of the undead and neverborn...

9 minutes ago, LmL said:

I hope I am still making you laugh

I am mirthful beyond measure..!

9 minutes ago, LmL said:

, because my grumpiness is entirely facetious.

I know.  It's 'a tale told by an idiot [not you] signifying nothing,' so 'we must laugh, we must sing; everything we look upon is blessed'.

9 minutes ago, LmL said:

And yes, I am extracting my revennymoan on you for naggymoaning me about the damn nennymoans and lime wash. I am of course glad that you did, just as you will be glad that I finally explained Patchface's riddles to you. 

Most grateful!

9 minutes ago, LmL said:

Again, you should be laughing. I'm just busting your nennymoans over here.

I am laughing as we 'speak.'

9 minutes ago, LmL said:

And no, there is no safe space anymore. 

You think there's no safe space over here; you should check out the songs @hiemal is sending me...definitely not for the faint-hearted...and I thought 'poetry' would be rills and nightingales, not other manner of foul...

[ravenous reader]

I think that's his 'revange' for hijacking the nennymoan thread!

[ravenous reader]

Firstly, thank you for that lovely poem you created, synthesizing GRRM, Metallica and so much more.  That's what art is about -- interaction and transformation.  You are very talented (now don't get ahead of yourself).  

1 hour ago, LmL said:

By the way I am on board with the anemone stuff, that's indeed a good match for Sans'a hairnet of purple snakes / poison black amethysts. Also, an anemone is a perfect symbol for the God's Eye sun/moon conjunction with meteor sunrays sticking out - that's exactly what it looks like. An exploding circle, and the points poison and stab. It's a natural fit.

So are you on board with the rattling Strangler seeds being analogs of weirwood seeds/seeding meteors too?

I once put the word 'nennymoan' through the anagram cruncher (), and found several interesting permutations:

omen, amen, name, anonyms, anyones, nonman, nonmen, nomen, soma, moneys, annoys, seamy, samey, nosey, manse, yeoman, sonny, nanny, aeons, sane...

 At that point, I realised it was not a very 'sane' preoccupation, so I stopped!

Quote

I also think that wearing the see weed has to refer to skinchanging the trees, the more I think about that the more it makes sense.  It gets the weaving metaphor in, the see metaphor, and the counterculture reference that doubles as an oceanic metaphor. Wearing cloths or skins is an easy skinchanging metaphor to spot, and silver = moonlight most of all. Add in the moon painting the trees silver, and I think you are there. I wonder what the different connotation is comparing the Grey King's tapestries to wearing gowns of see weed? By the way, the Grey King's silver see-weed tapestries were "most pleasing to the eye" - eye, singular. 

 

Or perhaps, punning, 'most pleasing to the I.'

I don't know if there's a difference between gowns and tapestries.  The Grey King taught his people how to weave sails and nets, so that's analogous to skinchanging dragons (sailing ships) and trees (also sailing ships; weirwood net/fish garth).

Quote

By the way, I am also increasingly coming to think that Nissa Nissa was indeed an elf, whether that be a female of the green men race or a cotf or a human - cotf hybrid.  I don't thin she literally was a weirwood, but if the concept of NN doesn't refer to a tree, then it would have to be a woman who could enter the tree for all the NN / WW symbolism we have found to make sense. 

Sure.  The equivalent of 'merwives who wear nennymoans in their hair.'  Or perhaps the greenseers are the merwives; I still can't decide!

Quote

Once I pointed out that the weirwood canopy was on fire, all of the pale skinned, kissed by fire haired moon maidens start looking like weirwood trees. It may be that both these women and weirwoods are symbolizing the moon, and that's why they share symbolism. 

I agree.

Quote

If NN does actually represent a weirwood, it would imply AA tempered his sword in a weirwood. That evokes Odin and Gram, but it could also refer to the idea @ravenous reader and I have been talking about regarding the weirwoods growing up where meteors landed (such as on the Isle of Faces if indeed it is a crater lake).

The Barnstokkr or Branstokkr.  'The [black] seed is strong.'

Quote

The column of ash rising from the landing spots could be the ash tree weirdrasil. That's what I was saying about the ash grove around tristifer the hammer - that also serves as the rising clouds of ash from the hammer landing. The white rose and the ash trees also serve to show us a weirwood growing up from the landing site.

For sure.  Weirwoods are often described as rising, or in past tense 'rose' (pun on the flower 'rose'), here most notably:

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A Dance with Dragons - The Sacrifice

"Aye," said Big Bucket Wull. "Red Rahloo means nothing here. You will only make the old gods angry. They are watching from their island."

The crofter's village stood between two lakes, the larger dotted with small wooded islands that punched up through the ice like the frozen fists of some drowned giant. From one such island rose a weirwood gnarled and ancient, its bole and branches white as the surrounding snows. Eight days ago Asha had walked out with Aly Mormont to have a closer look at its slitted red eyes and bloody mouth. It is only sap, she'd told herself, the red sap that flows inside these weirwoods. But her eyes were unconvinced; seeing was believing, and what they saw was frozen blood.

"You northmen brought these snows upon us," insisted Corliss Penny. "You and your demon trees. R'hllor will save us."

In addition, a tree covered in snow may resemble a white rose.

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It's really interesting that in Jon's dream of Bran as a tree, Brantree is growing out of a stone. 

And moving to the other lighting tree with white roses, that too is a meteor landing spot, so if the white roses represent weirwoods, it's the same idea. Whatever the white roses are, they grow up where meteors land, that's the point.

I surmise that's why the 'Black Gate' is called black, because the weirwood grows out of a black stone foundation.

[Bluetiger]

Quote

Not all skinchangers felt the same, however. Once, when Lump was ten, Haggon had taken him to a gathering of such. The wargs were the most numerous in that company, the wolf-brothers, but the boy had found the others stranger and more fascinating. Borroq looked so much like his boar that all he lacked was tusks, Orell had his eagle, Briar her shadowcat (the moment he saw them, Lump wanted a shadowcat of his own), the goat woman Grisella …

(A Dance with Dragons, Prologue)

Briar is a kind of wild rose, isn't it?

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The hill from which Highgarden rises is neither steep nor stony but broad in extent, with gentle slopes and a pleasing symmetry. From the castle's walls and towers, a man can see for leagues in all directions, across orchards and meadows and fields of flowers, including the golden roses of the Reach that have long been the sigil of House Tyrell.

Highgarden is girded by three concentric rings of crenellated curtain walls, made of finely dressed white stone and protected by towers as slender and graceful as maidens. Each wall is higher and thicker than the one below it. Between the outermost wall that girdles the foot of the hill and the middle wall above it can be found Highgarden's famed briar maze, a vast and complicated labyrinth of thorns and hedges maintained for centuries for the pleasure and delight of the castle's occupants and guests...and for defensive purposes, for intruders unfamiliar with the maze cannot easily find their way through its traps and dead ends to the castle gates.

Within the castle walls, greenery abounds, and the keeps are surrounded by gardens, arbors, pools, fountains, courtyards, and man-made waterfalls. Ivy covers the older buildings, and grapes and climbing roses snake up the sides of statuary, walls, and towers. Flowers bloom everywhere. The keep is a palace like few others, filled with statues, colonnades, and fountains. Highgarden's tallest towers, round and slender, look down upon neighbors far more ancient, square and grim in appearance, the oldest of them dating from the Age of Heroes. The rest of the castle is of more recent construction, much of it built by King Mern VI after the destruction of the original structures by the Dornish during the reign of Garth Greybeard.

Highgarden is full of 'white slender towers' (=white trees?) and has a briar maze which is also a trap... Just like the wierwoods are.

And this scene takes place at holdfast called Briarwhite (which is close to the Gods Eye):

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Outside a holdfast called Briarwhite, some fieldhands surrounded them in a cornfield, demanding coin for the ears they'd taken. Yoren eyed their scythes and tossed them a few coppers. "Time was, a man in black was feasted from Dorne to Winterfell, and even high lords called it an honor to shelter him under their roofs," he said bitterly. "Now cravens like you want hard coin for a bite of wormy apple." He spat.

"It's sweetcorn, better'n a stinking old black bird like you deserves," one of them answered roughly. "You get out of our field now, and take these sneaks and stabbers with you, or we'll stake you up in the corn to scare the other crows away."

People of Briarwhite attack men of the Watch with scythes, evoking sacrifice and later threaten to turn Yoren and his recruits into scarecrows - the undead Night's Watch...