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Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn/The Heart of what was Lost/The Last King of Osten Ard

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On 9/26/2018 at 3:19 AM, Calibandar said:

Stunning cover it must be said.

Much, much better than the generic castle of the first. Hopefully this one has more meat on the bone.

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Avoiding the rest of the thread since I've not read this yet, so, if someone could answer this for me: 

I have the original set of books, and am aware there's a short novella and now a new book. 

Is this new book part of a new series? Or is it a one-off tale? 

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14 hours ago, IlyaP said:

Avoiding the rest of the thread since I've not read this yet, so, if someone could answer this for me: 

I have the original set of books, and am aware there's a short novella and now a new book. 

Is this new book part of a new series? Or is it a one-off tale? 

It's a bridge book that does have information and characters that are pertenant to the new series.

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On 10/5/2018 at 1:10 AM, IlyaP said:

Avoiding the rest of the thread since I've not read this yet, so, if someone could answer this for me: 

I have the original set of books, and am aware there's a short novella and now a new book. 

Is this new book part of a new series? Or is it a one-off tale? 

The situation we have now is:

 

Memory, Sorrow and Thorn

1. The Dragonbone Chair

2. Stone of Farewell

3. To Green Angel Tower (split in two for paperback, Part 1 and Part 2 in the USA and Siege and Storm in other countries)

 

The Burning Man: a short story and prequel to Memory, Sorrow and Thorn but not hugely relevant to it.

The Heart of What Was Lost: this is the bridging book. It takes place immediately after To Green Angel Tower and introduces some characters and situations that will be relevant in the sequel trilogy.

 

The Last King of Osten Ard

1. The Witchwood Crown (out now, Book 1 of the new trilogy)

2. Empire of Grass (out next year)

3. The Navigator's Children (out in 2020, probably)

 

The Shadow of Things to Come: this is a prequel to everything so far, but won't be released until after the new trilogy is complete.

 

 

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On 4/29/2018 at 7:54 PM, Lord Patrek said:

Yeah, the biggest SFF disappointment of 2017 for me. . . :(

http://fantasyhotlist.blogspot.ca/2017/05/the-witchwood-crown.html

Me too. I rather wish Simon wasn't in it and we started with a descendant.  There was something depressing about seeing him old and all the reminiscing took away from the narrative.  I am a huge fan of the original trilogy, it's in my top five series, and loved Otherland and War of the Flowers (not a fan of his other 2 series, which I didn't finish) so my expectations were high.  Unfortunately, the book felt contrived and flat.  

I will still be reading the next one though

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On 10/7/2018 at 10:02 AM, Werthead said:

The Last King of Osten Ard

1. The Witchwood Crown (out now, Book 1 of the new trilogy)

2. Empire of Grass (out next year)

3. The Navigator's Children (out in 2020, probably)

 

 

Right, so, I should hold off until the new trilogy is finished before bounding into the series. 

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The latest manuscript for Empire of Grass is 1,079 pages, not including the appendix. It's still five months from the publication date, but all that is left is the editing.

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Just finished my read of TWC... a bit late I know (I did a complete re-read of the series) but overall I enjoyed it.  A slow burn like others have said, but I expected that from Tad.  I was a little disappointed with the ret-conning of the Norns (for lack of a better term), and how quickly they seemed to have changed with the Queen in hibernation after thousands of years of completely different cultural traditions.  Reasonably explained in the book I suppose... but overall still felt it was done in order to tell this story and didn't feel quite natural.  Overall, I'll give it a B+ or A-.  I'm a fan of WIlliams' (less Shadowmarch), so I'm looking forward to the next 2 books, especially now that stuff is moving along.  

Are we discussing spoilers here?  I'll err on the side of caution.

 

WTF was Pasevalles up to there at the end killing Idela?  That one really caught me by surprise.  Obviously something in the letter... but what?  Traitor? I can't remember which house he was originally from in Nabban... but all his other POV sections in the book gave no clues that he wasn't true to the throne, unless I missed them.  I almost feel like she was the traitor and he found her out... but it really seemed like it was directly related to her opening that letter and whatever was in it.

I picked up on Joshua's twins being Ulver and Tzoja about halfway through (with the repeated mentions of Ulver's non-thrithings features), but then doubted myself as Tzoja NEVER mentions a brother in her memories up until the reveal.   Didn't quite have the impact on reveal as the thought had crossed my mind on a few occasions through the read. 

The stuff with Nezeru and the Norns was really interesting... but like I said above it wasn't at all how I had picutred Norn culture from the previous series or even compared to the Sithi at present, and felt a bit shoe-horned into the story.  Like the author had a new idea for a race and took the Norns and forced them into that role.  Minor gripe I can live with.

Edited by Ded As Ned

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On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 12:41 PM, Ded As Ned said:

Just finished my read of TWC... a bit late I know (I did a complete re-read of the series) but overall I enjoyed it.  A slow burn like others have said, but I expected that from Tad.  I was a little disappointed with the ret-conning of the Norns (for lack of a better term), and how quickly they seemed to have changed with the Queen in hibernation after thousands of years of completely different cultural traditions.  Reasonably explained in the book I suppose... but overall still felt it was done in order to tell this story and didn't feel quite natural.  Overall, I'll give it a B+ or A-.  I'm a fan of WIlliams' (less Shadowmarch), so I'm looking forward to the next 2 books, especially now that stuff is moving along.  

Are we discussing spoilers here?  I'll err on the side of caution.

  Reveal hidden contents

WTF was Pasevalles up to there at the end killing Idela?  That one really caught me by surprise.  Obviously something in the letter... but what?  Traitor? I can't remember which house he was originally from in Nabban... but all his other POV sections in the book gave no clues that he wasn't true to the throne, unless I missed them.  I almost feel like she was the traitor and he found her out... but it really seemed like it was directly related to her opening that letter and whatever was in it.

I picked up on Joshua's twins being Ulver and Tzoja about halfway through (with the repeated mentions of Ulver's non-thrithings features), but then doubted myself as Tzoja NEVER mentions a brother in her memories up until the reveal.   Didn't quite have the impact on reveal as the thought had crossed my mind on a few occasions through the read. 

The stuff with Nezeru and the Norns was really interesting... but like I said above it wasn't at all how I had picutred Norn culture from the previous series or even compared to the Sithi at present, and felt a bit shoe-horned into the story.  Like the author had a new idea for a race and took the Norns and forced them into that role.  Minor gripe I can live with.

 

[/Spoiler]  I never had the feeling that Passevalles was disloyal, either, up until the murder. 

On reflection, I do wonder if Idela was a traitor, or at any rate, Passevalles was just not prepared to take a chance that she might be.

 

 

Edited by SeanF

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On 12/18/2018 at 12:41 PM, Ded As Ned said:

Just finished my read of TWC... a bit late I know (I did a complete re-read of the series) but overall I enjoyed it.  A slow burn like others have said, but I expected that from Tad.  I was a little disappointed with the ret-conning of the Norns (for lack of a better term), and how quickly they seemed to have changed with the Queen in hibernation after thousands of years of completely different cultural traditions.  Reasonably explained in the book I suppose... but overall still felt it was done in order to tell this story and didn't feel quite natural.  Overall, I'll give it a B+ or A-.  I'm a fan of WIlliams' (less Shadowmarch), so I'm looking forward to the next 2 books, especially now that stuff is moving along.  

Are we discussing spoilers here?  I'll err on the side of caution.

  Reveal hidden contents

WTF was Pasevalles up to there at the end killing Idela?  That one really caught me by surprise.  Obviously something in the letter... but what?  Traitor? I can't remember which house he was originally from in Nabban... but all his other POV sections in the book gave no clues that he wasn't true to the throne, unless I missed them.  I almost feel like she was the traitor and he found her out... but it really seemed like it was directly related to her opening that letter and whatever was in it.

I picked up on Joshua's twins being Ulver and Tzoja about halfway through (with the repeated mentions of Ulver's non-thrithings features), but then doubted myself as Tzoja NEVER mentions a brother in her memories up until the reveal.   Didn't quite have the impact on reveal as the thought had crossed my mind on a few occasions through the read. 

The stuff with Nezeru and the Norns was really interesting... but like I said above it wasn't at all how I had picutred Norn culture from the previous series or even compared to the Sithi at present, and felt a bit shoe-horned into the story.  Like the author had a new idea for a race and took the Norns and forced them into that role.  Minor gripe I can live with.

Did you read The Heart of What Was Lost? I think that did explain the Norn thing a bit better.

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On 12/24/2018 at 2:25 PM, Werthead said:

Did you read The Heart of What Was Lost? I think that did explain the Norn thing a bit better.

I did read it, and enjoyed it.   I wasn't really saying that it wasn't explained in the text... just that to me it still doesn't feel quite like a natural direction the Norns would go after centuries of being quite different.  Not to say these things don't happen though...  

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I've just bought it.  I'll read it when I've finished The Spider's War.

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I'm 40% finished with the new book.

Spoiler

So, Passavelles is plotting with Drusis to overthrow Simon/Miriamele and put Morgan as a puppet ruler on the throne,right? He also has to be behind the attack on the  Sithi envoy.

 

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6 hours ago, AncalagonTheBlack said:

I'm 40% finished with the new book.

  Hide contents

So, Passavelles is plotting with Drusis to overthrow Simon/Miriamele and put Morgan as a puppet ruler on the throne,right? He also has to be behind the attack on the  Sithi envoy.

 

I'm not sure. I've read about 43%.

Spoiler

Not sure what the guy is about. He clearly is a psychopath, but his thoughts during the short chapter where we got his POV as well as his reaction when he overheard Tiamak and Simon talking about John Josua's death (the spilled wine) strongly implies he is working with (the remnants of) Pryrates and/or the Norns. He implies that mundane wealth and power was enough only for a short time when he had acquired it and then he started to investigate the Hayholt himself... Also, he likely has the witness which was previously in possession of John Josua.
One assumes he may have played a role in the death of John Josua as well, if Pryrates (?) couldn't manage that himself.

With that in mind it seems rather unlikely that he gives a damn about ruling and stuff but rather does what he does because Akhenabi or Utuk'ku herself promised him something. In fact, it is actually quite likely that he merely has the job to keep the High Throne occupied and confused, preventing them from focusing on the real danger. Although I'm pretty sure that nobody told him about Utuk'ku's plans for Deornoth/Unver. If he wanted to mundanely rule through Morgan (which should be easy as hell) then this plan ended with Morgan's loss. Before he is found he could not possibly overthrow Simon/Miri. But I have to say this Nabban business is soo slow. I still don't understand what they want there, although one assumes Utuk'ku's goal would be to have Drusis as duke there so war with the clans is going to escalate very quickly. Simon/Miri should not really figure into that all that much. 

The attack is rather odd. We do learn that the poison used implies Norn involvement, so either he had direct contact with them (difficult but possible) or Pryrates' remnants/ghost showed him how to find/make witchwood dust beneath the castle.

 

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Yes,

Spoiler

Pasevalles is Akhenabi's pet, and he has basically no clue what Utuk'ku wants to do - just as most of the Norns themselves ;-).

The idea that she lost her mind or Akhenabi or other are doing things she doesn't want to do also seems to be dead, in my opinion. She just doesn't allow anyone to get the full picture to prevent anyone from figuring out that she wants to kill them all along with humanity. Because that was her plan the entire time - if she has to die eventually everybody else will go with her. And that's why she is going to bring 'Unbeing' to Osten Ard.

 

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