[SPOILERS] Black Sails Season 4: All that glitters is not Silver

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

I'm assuming the cache is the Treasure Island treasure? 

[GallowKnight]

13 minutes ago, red snow said:

Just checking in case i was dumb and missed something but Flint was at the beach because that's where the cache was hidden, right? If not I was completely misinterpreting the scene as I thought Jack was there trying to take off with the cache himself, realising everything had turned to shit. He looked a bit guilty when talking with Flint.

No, Flint was at the beach because that's where he though they would meet the guy the sent to retrieve the cache, which was hidden on Maroon Island. Jack was there because he had returned to aid the resistance against Rodgers. 

[Leofric]

14 minutes ago, red snow said:

Just checking in case i was dumb and missed something but Flint was at the beach because that's where the cache was hidden, right? If not I was completely misinterpreting the scene as I thought Jack was there trying to take off with the cache himself, realising everything had turned to shit. He looked a bit guilty when talking with Flint.

They were at the beach because they thought Jack's ship was the ship that Madi and Silver had sent to bring the cache back from the Maroon's island.  So they were surprised to see Jack instead.

[red snow]

that makes more sense!

I guess it wasn't such a coincidence for Jack to wind up at the same place as there's probably a favourite secondary site for the pirates to land at.

Jack's honour remains intact

[Zorral]

20 hours ago, red snow said:

Part of me likes to entertain the thought they'll do another show with Silver 10 years down the line.

Have any of you read this novel, featuring Hawkins's son and Silver's daughter:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/mar/30/silver-return-treasure-island-andrew-motion-review

I read it back in 2012 when it was published. It was quite good, though more literary than I expected, or, perhaps, wanted. 

The author then followed up Silver with yet another sequel, The New World, i.e. not pirates, but Indians >?< -- which I haven't read:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/oct/17/the-new-world-andrew-motion-former-poet-laureate-review-novel

[sweetsunray]

4 hours ago, red snow said:

Just checking in case i was dumb and missed something but Flint was at the beach because that's where the cache was hidden, right? If not I was completely misinterpreting the scene as I thought Jack was there trying to take off with the cache himself, realising everything had turned to shit. He looked a bit guilty when talking with Flint.

Silver's lookout believed the ship sailing towards the southern coast was the ship with Kofi (they likely sailed of with the Gloucestershire, a sloop of the governor). But it wasn't. It was the other sloop with Jack Rackham. The cache wasn't on the beach at all. Jack didn't take it. He was unloading ammunition and stuff from the launches. We don't know where the cache is right now: still at Maroon Island, taken by Julius, or others... no clue

[sweetsunray]

3 hours ago, red snow said:

that makes more sense!

I guess it wasn't such a coincidence for Jack to wind up at the same place as there's probably a favourite secondary site for the pirates to land at.

Jack's honour remains intact

We've seen that beach loads of times, especially since S3. Yes, it's a favorite landing of the pirates.

[sweetsunray]

I've started to rewatch S1. OMG there are so many events in S4 that are a mirror reverse to S1.

• S1: Max offering a life someplace else with pearls to Eleanor, but she's unable to part from her life's work <> S4: Eleanor offers a life someplace else with the cache to Woodes, but he's unwilling to part from what has become his life's work
• S1: Billy distrusts Silver and wants to be rid of him <> S4: Billy attempts to convince Silver to work together
• S1: Silver's only in it for the money, not caring about anyone <> S4: Silver's in it for an ideal and love
• S1: Billy saves Flint's life by shooting the Andromache slave running to Flint with a bomb <> S4: Billy shoots Flint and wants to kill him
• S1: Flint is callous with the lives of others <> S4: at least from 4x03 on Flint tries to save lives, and with increasing pace every episode
• S1: Richard Guthrie asks Mr. Scott to help him save Eleanor from either being "hanged by an English noose or killed by a Spanish sword" <> S3: Mr. Scott agreed to a plan that could get her killed by a Spanish sword and S4: her own husband invites the Spanish to kill, take or burn everyone not inside the fort
• S1: Anne Bonny uses the syringe method with soap on Max to help abort any child that may have been conceived by the rapists <> S4: Will Max help someone deliver a child (likely Anne or Eleanor)?
• S1: Anne Bonny sets Rackham up to kill fellow crew <> S4: Anne Bonny asks Rackham to give her up to save the crew.
• S1: Charles Vane captures the fort and threatens to shoot ships in the bay and Eleanor gives in to protect Nassau, as well as prevents Hornigold from going inside and take it back <> S4: Eleanor holds the fort, prevents the council from going outside to retake Nassau, and shoots warning shots at her husband's ship

Of course there are S2-S3 reverse parallels and S2-S4 reverse parallels, but there are more reverse parallels to S1 during S4 than ever before.

[Arkash]

Spoilers for episode 6 

Cant believe Madi's dead. We need to see the body !

But damn, that was a tough episode.

Many wont, but I'll miss you Eleanore. You were flawed sure, but damn, you were a very well written character and an emblem of the show since the beginning. So long princess.

And I keep every episode thinking it's gonna be the end of Anne or Jack and now I'm afraid the Guthries will hang them as soon as they present themselves at their door...

[akh]

Man.. 

This show is really not holding back in the final season, huh.

There is still a lot of story to be told with the developments at the end of the episode. Is it a 10 or a 12 episode season?

 

 

[Corvinus85]

This episode hit the hardest yet. I just watched it and I am at a loss for words right now.

[Arkash]

You're not entirely alone there... I wouldnt say it hit me that much (still denying Madi's dead), but it was visceral, intense and, as always, amazing TV ! Although I must say, the fighting scenes were definitly not what made the episode for me, I just rewatched it skipping them, only going to the dialogue ones, and damn, it's such a delight ! Btw, maybe I missed it he died in one of the fighting scenes, but did anyone caught what happened to Julius in the end ? Was he among the survivors ? And what about De Groot ? I wonder if we'll ever see him again...

[Corvinus85]

Just now, Arkash said:

You're not entirely alone there... I wouldnt say it hit me that much (still denying Madi's dead), but it was visceral, intense and, as always, amazing TV ! Although I must say, the fighting scenes were definitly not what made the episode for me, I just rewatched it skipping them, only going to the dialogue ones, and damn, it's such a delight ! Btw, maybe I missed it he died in one of the fighting scenes, but did anyone caught what happened to Julius in the end ? Was he among the survivors ? And what about De Groot ? I wonder if we'll ever see him again...

Julius survived, and De Groot was on the Walrus, or maybe on the sloop, but he was there in one or two shots.

[Arkash]

Yeah, I just rewatched the last scene, Julius was there. As for De Groot, I'll have to go a recheck again ! Thanks for the heads up ! And good luck processing your thoughts !  ETA : Aaaand De Groot is in that scene as well indeed !

Yeah, it was one hell of an episode ! Damn, I think I'm off for a third rewatch (or just some scenes maybe). 

[sweetsunray]

I feared it would go this way (because it made too much damn storytelling sense), and it did go this way. I started to cry my eyes out half through already and somehow just can't stop. But damn, no matter how tragic, that was awesomely written. Eleanor's end was immensely heartbreaking and bittersweet, and I'm grateful Flint did her that kindness of letting her die with that white lie of his. Goodbye, butterfly.

Madi lives imo. She may be taken, but she's not dead. Eleanor saved her life. They put Eleanor on a tragic redemption arc since 4x02. And quite unintentionally, Jack had his revenge for Vane. If he hadn't sailed for Nassau and tried to go ashore, Eleanor would still have been in the fort. And Max knows where to hurt Woodes (though he's already devastated, in emotional hell): in his pocket. And how will the Maroon Queen feel if she learns of her daughter's assumed fate.

[Astromech]

Just wait until Eleanor's grandfather gets the news. Flint's keeping Woodes Rogers collusion with the Spanish a secret from Eleanor was the best moment of an excellent episode. I actually love how Eleanor went out. I was not too keen on her season 3 arc, but she really redeemed herself this season. I'm loving how, in spite of all the events over the course of this series, Flint and Eleanor still had a close bond.

And Billy was right about Flint being the destruction of Madi. I'll have to go back and see if Billy said something about her burning. I seem to remember his phrase to Silver mentioning burning. Or maybe I'm just convincing myself Billy's words were more prophetic.

The battle at the plantation and the cavalry charge were amazing but that strategy of only having 4 men watch the south was a major mistake. Worked out in the end thanks to Julius and his men, but it was a headscratcher.

Anne being alive is good news and her telling Max to fuck off was great. I loved Jack tearing Max a new one too. I have to admit to being sympathetic to Max as well. She's been trying her best since the first season, but everything she touches kind of turns to shit. She may prevail in her own way in the end, but has burned one too many bridges getting there.

I also have to admit to thinking the vast pirate army at the end of the episode was a bit cheesy. But I can't wait for these final two episodes. This series will be a boxed set purchase for me once it's available.

[sweetsunray]

1 hour ago, Astromech said:

Just wait until Eleanor's grandfather gets the news.

My bet: Woodes is going to debtor's jail. Not that would devastate him anymore than Eleanor's death. He's no doubt in personal hell after finding Eleanor. Wait until he learns what Mrs. Hudson knew of Eleanor's state of being. Sure, he'll loathe the pirates for having put him in this position, but he'll loathe himself the most. He once said he was an "accountable" man. Heck, he admitted to Grandal that he had opened the gate for them. He knows he might as well have killed her with a sword himself.

1 hour ago, Astromech said:

Flint's keeping Woodes Rogers collusion with the Spanish a secret from Eleanor was the best moment of an excellent episode.

So agree with that! She was dying and she obviously chose love, hoping that for once a man didn't choose his ambitions over her safety. There was no point in taking that illusion away from her, not as she lay dying. She went out as a beacon of love and mercy, and fighting for her and Madi's life. They could have gone the route of Woodes finding her taking her last breaths, but it was appropriate for it to be Flint, to preserve that hope, and Flint and Woodes were the only two men across the 4 seasons she believed in to be beneficial to her Nassau dream. And then the short scene of Woodes finding the result of his choice.

It's deeply tragic though - I watched S1 episodes this week and one of the things that stuck out to me was Richard Guthrie begging Mr. Scott in helping him protect Eleanor from either getting hanged by an English noose or killed by a Spanish sword, and after the Andromache blows up and he confronts Mr. Scott for betraying Eleanor, Flint admits he recognizes that Mr. Scott fears he'll get Eleanor killed and he'll prove Mr. Scott wrong. Flint started the whole Urca hunt enabling Woodes to make a deal with the Spanish at all. Mr. Scott urged the Maroon Queen to form a team with Flint and utterly rejected Eleanor, and that might have cost the lives of both his daughters. Her father left it to others to keep his daughter safe. Woodes saved her from the noose, but he invited the Spanish. 

Anyhow, they did it in the right episode. The death of Gates, Miranda and Vane was featured in the penultimate episode of the season, giving the audience time to recuperate from it somewhat with the finale. But Eleanor was a major character, and she pretty much embodied Nassau. And when Rackham says it will take time to digest and discover how much they lost, the scene switched to the shot of dead Eleanor and Woodes finding her. They'll never get Nassau back, because of it, imo, somehow.

1 hour ago, Astromech said:

I have to admit to being sympathetic to Max as well.

Agreed. I loved her remark on "war against civilisation", railing against the hubris of these men, and how the women pay for it with their lives. But I don't see her survive. Those who cling to revenge come to a bad end.

1 hour ago, Astromech said:

I also have to admit to thinking the vast pirate army at the end of the episode was a bit cheesy. But I can't wait for these final two episodes.

There's 4 more episodes. The first season had 8 episodes, the other 3 have 10.

Well, that pirate army seems cheesy, but the Maroon Queen doesn't know about Madi yet (I don't think she's dead though, but captured as a slave. Though even that would be devastating news to Madi's mother). That cache, the Spanish gold (well gems and pearls), is cursed. It demands life after life after life. Let's say that the Maroon Queen had let Kofi return with the cache. It would have returned to New Providence earlier than Jack at the beach or the Havana fleet. Eleanor would have been inside the fort and Madi would have been with Silver surrounded by greater numbers. So, in a way the Maroon Queen had a partial hand in her daughter's fate as well.

So, I'm not sure yet, which of the two, Silver or Flint, but one of them is heading to having enough of this war against civilisation (from the outside). On the one hand we have Silver asking Madi whether he'd be enough previous episode. On the other hand we have Flint becoming increasingly mild. He was near tears himself over Madi, and I think privately touched over Eleanor as well. He took them to Miranda's house, tried to keep both of them alive, and Miranda's hosue went in flames. He was disturbed by that broken tea-cup too. He already showed not caring about that cache anymore, willing to give it to Eleanor for getting Nassau without anymore sacrifice. And the characters that Flint had mostly been featured with this season, aside from Silver, was Madi and Eleanor. I think it's starting to get to him. He's not at that breaking point yet, but I think he might in 2 or 3 episodes more.

 

[Astromech]

56 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

 

There's 4 more episodes. The first season had 8 episodes, the other 3 have 10.

 

So, I'm not sure yet, which of the two, Silver or Flint, but one of them is heading to having enough of this war against civilisation (from the outside). On the one hand we have Silver asking Madi whether he'd be enough previous episode. On the other hand we have Flint becoming increasingly mild. He was near tears himself over Madi, and I think privately touched over Eleanor as well. He took them to Miranda's house, tried to keep both of them alive, and Miranda's hosue went in flames. He was disturbed by that broken tea-cup too. He already showed not caring about that cache anymore, willing to give it to Eleanor for getting Nassau without anymore sacrifice. And the characters that Flint had mostly been featured with this season, aside from Silver, was Madi and Eleanor. I think it's starting to get to him. He's not at that breaking point yet, but I think he might in 2 or 3 episodes more.

 

Good to hear there are more than two episodes left. I was expecting 8 episodes, probably because most shows I watch have 8.

Considering what we know of them from Treasure Island, I would guess Flint since he seems a much more broken character. Silver still has fight in him, but seems more cynical and deceitful than he is in Black Sails. I'm beginning to see how Billy ends up how he is in the novel.

[sweetsunray]

1 minute ago, Astromech said:

Considering what we know of them from Treasure Island, I would guess Flint since he seems a much more broken character.

And takes the "treasure" and then bury it somewhere, with the Walrus and crew, almost as if he's refusing to let anyone use it for any Pirate Republic, while Silver feels he's owed. I would say learning or meeting with Thomas and/or Abigail would break him and go 180° to what he is at the start of S3.

[Martini Sigil]

Agree with the consensus.... great episode, from soup to nuts.... the plantation battle was extraordinary... but am I mistaken, or is Madi alive in TI????