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kiko

German politics xth attempt

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4 hours ago, Notone said:

Since former chancellor and bribery patron deluxe Helmut Kohl has passed away, and is probably united with Thatcher and Reagan in one of Dante's circles (if you believe in such a place that is), I felt like the thread deserved another bump.

I felt somewhat annoyed by the glorification of that crook in the media (I know de mortuis nil nisi bonum etc., but they were really pushing it), and I wondered whether I was the only one. Then I saw the light, or the TAZ frontpage.

https://dl.taz.de/taz/shop/download_action.php?model=20100&typ=seite1

Small explanation for the non-German speaking readers.

The Headline reads: Blühende Landschaften (lit. blooming landscapes (in the sense of green pastures)) was what he promised would become of Eastern Germany (the former GDR).

 

For what it's worth, the TAZ has posted an apology for that title page: http://www.taz.de/In-eigener-Sache--Titelseite/!5421768/

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The taz are wimps!

Although the original "joke" is already wimpy. They should have posted a picture of a desolate run-down East German landscape. Or a briefcase with money.

There are two good things to be said about Kohl and of course right now these are trumpeted with full blast: He certainly did further the European unification project (and bumbling as he was he would never have bumbled like Merkel and Schäuble did in the last years becoming the most-hated people in Greece and elsewhere). And while it was basically a stroke of luck that the chance for the reunification occurred during his administration he took that chance and probably made the best from the circumstances. But this holds only for the political unity (roughly, making the Russians peacefully agree to a unified Germany as NATO member). Afterwards it was badly messed up and a lot of Eastern Germany was sold out to Western profiteers who made billions.

But he was mediocre before 1989 (and would almost certainly have lost the election in 1990 if the Wall had not fallen) and also in his last term in the mid/late 1990s. And many of the problems we have today with the EU and the Euro might be rooted in pushing too quickly forward on that frond (although these issues are so complex that I do not really dare an opinion). I also suspect that the overall frustration many Germans have with politics today stems from the interminably Kohl years. People slightly younger than me would have no recollection of any other chancellor for all of their life (and I briefly thought as a child that a chancellor must be called "Helmut" because Helmut Schmidt and Helmut Kohl were the only ones I could remember (although I was born when Brandt was chancellor).

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Most Germans in this thread probably know about this already, but I'm not sure how present this has been in the non-German media, so I'm reposting it here:

The German parliament is going to vote on same-sex marriage on Friday. 

Most MP's are probably going to vote in favour.

More information can be found here: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/27/europe/germany-same-sex-marriage/index.html

Edited by Queen of Procrastination

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Thanks for that update. It's always been a bit of an oddity to me that Germany is alongside Italy and Greece as having same-sex civil unions only. Hopefully it goes ahead!

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The majority of the MP's voted in favour :) 

It will take few weeks until the law enters into force though.

On 29.6.2017 at 3:31 AM, Paxter said:

Thanks for that update. It's always been a bit of an oddity to me that Germany is alongside Italy and Greece as having same-sex civil unions only. Hopefully it goes ahead!

Well we had a conservative government for the past twelve years. Merkel brought her party closer to the center and took over some issues from other parties. For many members of her party the opposition against same-sex marriage was one of the last conservative issues they wanted to stick to, though a few of them voted in favour of the bill. 

Civil unions were introduced by the government before hers which consisted of Socialdemocrats and Greens. 

Edited by Queen of Procrastination

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The Bundestag voted 393:226 for same-sex marriage.

There was confetti, too: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundestag-beschliesst-ehe-fuer-alle-a-1155187.html

The whole thing is hilarious: A blunder by Merkel (she accidentally said something meaningful, just at the wrong moment), pre-election tactics on both sides, and a historical moment. Merkel voted against, btw.

Right-wing conservatives will probably take it to the Supreme court, though.

Edited by Mindwalker

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Great news!

I'm surprised that the union got that many at least partially decent people in its ranks. 

I hope the Austrian parliament follows suit but I doubt it. 

 

Edited by Wolfgang I

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I am never sure if Merkel's blunders might have some insidious background or are simply blunders. If it was done on purpose it was to avoid having any other issues hitting deadlines (edit: HEADlines, of course, sorry). (I know that it is a very unpopular opinion around here but I think that such symbolical "leftward" moves that are fairly irrelevant for 95% of the populace are touted to hid the hundreds and thousands of laws hurting almost everyone except fat cat banksters, destroying public pensions, banning free speech, other "counter-terrorism measures restricting civil liberties etc. I also think that any reform of marriage laws should have revoked tax privileges for childless couples, regardless of gender.)

It could backfire because there are a lot of socially conservative people who would have preferred the "compromise" of partnerships that are not called marriage (this is somewhat silly because the differences are so slight) but that's how such things are done all the time.) On the other hand, an important AfD politician is a married Lesbian, so it is not a core issue of the party further right and it probably will not have a large impact on the election in fall.

Edited by Jo498

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Blunder my ass. This is a classic Merkel U-turn. Looks like she wanted the thing out of the way so it won't be a topic in the upcoming election campaign. And since she voted against it she can pretend to have opposed it.

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Oh, it's entirely possible she did it on purpose. She is not stupid. FWIW, I doubt that either the CDU or the SPD will profit in terms of votes... As for those other bills/ poltics mentioned, no those few days of excitement about gay marriage haven't changed anything. They would have passed anyway, and nobody except for parody shows would have noticed... Just as it was now. I do hope Merkel will get punished by voters for her cowardly attitude and delaying tactics in that matter (or in others that some of you deem "more important"), but I doubt it. After all, voters loved her as long as she apparently never did anything. (Even when they were dissatisfied with the government, which was, you know, HER government.)

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This is not over. AfD and maybe also some from the CDU will be going to the Supreme Court. There are doubts whether this law is compatible with the constitution. So it might still figure in the Wahlkampf, I don't know. I think most people, even social conservatives, are sick and tired of these issues. (Of course, there ist nothing more important, how could there ever be?)

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1 minute ago, Jo498 said:

This is not over. AfD and maybe also some from the CDU will be going to the Supreme Court. There are doubts whether this law is compatible with the constitution. So it might still figure in the Wahlkampf, I don't know. I think most people, even social conservatives, are sick and tired of these issues. (Of course, there ist nothing more important, how could there ever be?)

The AFD can't go to the Supreme Court (thankfully). They have no right to sue in this matter, because they are not affected by this law directly.  The only options would be 1/3 of the members of the Bundestag or one of the Federal States. And I'm not sure the CDU gets 1/3 of the members of the Bundestag together. And the only Federal State I could see would be Bavaria.

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Anyhow, now that the G20 summit is over, I think it's time to reflect on it.

First of kudos to our First Mayor (and jackass) in town Olaf Scholz(omat) and Angie for that great idea to host that thing here. Of course, it took some brazen balls to come forward and announce "none of our citizens will even notice G20's in town." I think anybody with a half a brain could've predicted what would happen. Esp. given the proximity to the Flora and Schanze. For our American posters, that would be equivalent to the KKK holding a summit in the proximity of Harlem. It really was just a stone throw (German idiom equivalent to the English in spitting distance) away.

Small intersection of an old tune, which I presume was somewhat of the theme song for this extended weekend

No, my car wasn't harmed, and neither did I participate in the porsche bbqs.

Having that said. So what's the point of inviting a bunch of very unappealing people (Erdogan, May, Putin, Trump, Xi Jingping (in alphabetical order)) over to discuss the woes of the world (for which they are in huge parts themselves responsible)? Well, the Donald got to meet his boss and person and was apparently very honored to shake Vlad's hand - and to discuss the effective hacking of the DNC for the next election. But really, what's the point? Donnie two scoops remains pretty isolated with regards to the Paris treaty, well, that was until lil' Erdogan decided, yeah, we are in theory behind the whole thing, but not really much into putting it into action. So what else? Ah, yeah, Hardy Dudde and the police got to show off their awesome equipment. Oh, and we also have the law and order guys ranting about civil war scenes. So really, I think all that money that went up in smoke could really have been spent much better.

Bullenwagen klaun.

 

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2 hours ago, Notone said:

Anyhow, now that the G20 summit is over, I think it's time to reflect on it.

First of kudos to our First Mayor (and jackass) in town Olaf Scholz(omat) and Angie for that great idea to host that thing here. Of course, it took some brazen balls to come forward and announce "none of our citizens will even notice G20's in town." I think anybody with a half a brain could've predicted what would happen. Esp. given the proximity to the Flora and Schanze. For our American posters, that would be equivalent to the KKK holding a summit in the proximity of Harlem. It really was just a stone throw (German idiom equivalent to the English in spitting distance) away.

Small intersection of an old tune, which I presume was somewhat of the theme song for this extended weekend

No, my car wasn't harmed, and neither did I participate in the porsche bbqs.

Having that said. So what's the point of inviting a bunch of very unappealing people (Erdogan, May, Putin, Trump, Xi Jingping (in alphabetical order)) over to discuss the woes of the world (for which they are in huge parts themselves responsible)? Well, the Donald got to meet his boss and person and was apparently very honored to shake Vlad's hand - and to discuss the effective hacking of the DNC for the next election. But really, what's the point? Donnie two scoops remains pretty isolated with regards to the Paris treaty, well, that was until lil' Erdogan decided, yeah, we are in theory behind the whole thing, but not really much into putting it into action. So what else? Ah, yeah, Hardy Dudde and the police got to show off their awesome equipment. Oh, and we also have the law and order guys ranting about civil war scenes. So really, I think all that money that went up in smoke could really have been spent much better.

Bullenwagen klaun.

 

The police did an awesome job... the job of escalating the situation and protecting autocrats and neo-liberals instead of german citizens and their property. 

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The good news is that I have more good arguments for not going to Berlin this summer. My family wants to but I would like to come back with my BMW in its original colour. And shape.

Bonzenauto my arse...I am aqainted with some pretty hard-core pieces punkers and they are very delusional about the choices you have to make in life. (even though I would like to have some of their tunes as ringtone for my office cell phone) Burning down the Schanze is a pure selfish act of wanton destruction. The good people from Blankenese are laughing their behinds of.

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19 hours ago, kiko said:

The good news is that I have more good arguments for not going to Berlin this summer. My family wants to but I would like to come back with my BMW in its original colour. And shape.

Bonzenauto my arse...I am aqainted with some pretty hard-core pieces punkers and they are very delusional about the choices you have to make in life. (even though I would like to have some of their tunes as ringtone for my office cell phone) Burning down the Schanze is a pure selfish act of wanton destruction. The good people from Blankenese are laughing their behinds of.

You are right. 

Maybe those punks should become soccer fans instead? I don't think the are aware of the benefits. You can destroy stuff, harass people on trains, beat people up and the police will send "Fankontakt" people to appease your organization. You will even get your own trains to protect you from having to act like civilized people and the police will escort you to your chosen place of pointless violence. The media will also ignore sexuall harassment and similar stuff most the time because you know soccer is awesome brings people together. ;)

That way you can leave the protesting to peaceful people.

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The autonome have definitely scored an own goal with the looting of Sternschanze. Will be interesting to see what the political fallout is, both in Hamburg and in federal politics. Scholz was one of the SPD's hopefuls. I guess that's over now.  

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2 hours ago, Loge said:

The autonome have definitely scored an own goal with the looting of Sternschanze. Will be interesting to see what the political fallout is, both in Hamburg and in federal politics. Scholz was one of the SPD's hopefuls. I guess that's over now.  

 

I wouldn't say that. It is seen as justified in their own circles and they don't strive for democratic power anyway. Indeed, many of the are only political in order to have a social circle that will accept them after engaging in violence. For them , the rioting is the end, not the means.

 

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30 minutes ago, Stalker said:

 

I wouldn't say that. It is seen as justified in their own circles and they don't strive for democratic power anyway. Indeed, many of the are only political in order to have a social circle that will accept them after engaging in violence. For them , the rioting is the end, not the means.

 

They got away with it these last 30 years because they had the sympathy of large parts of the left, who used to downplay their actions or blame the police. That's a lot harder this time. This one has drawn a lot of attention, and they laid waste to a quarter that's as leftist as it gets. Let's look at the last election. From Wikipedia:

Quote

Bei den Wahlen zur Bürgerschaft gehört Sternschanze zum Wahlkreis Altona. Die Bürgerschaftswahl 2015 führte zu folgendem Ergebnis[6]:

  • Linke 29,1 % (+9,3)
  • Grüne 27,0 % (+2,1)
  • SPD 26,6 % (−11,3)
  • FDP 3,6 % (+0,8)
  • CDU 2,9 % (−1,2)
  • AfD 1,3 % (+1,3)
  • Übrige 9,5 % (−1,0)

 

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