Real Heir of Bear Island Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I have not started a new topic in quite a while. Not sure if this is exactly where this topic belongs. I was torn between General Chatter and Literature. Warning, this topic may contain wheel of time spoilers for those who have not read it and wish to in the future, or are currently reading for the first time. (there has to be somebody out there). My best friend and I are both fantasy nerds. We've been friends for a very long time (20+ years) but have ended up on the opposite end of the political spectrum lately. He is a full blown Trumper. And I am NOT a fan. Needless to say there has been much debating and arguing over the past couple of years about politics. In one of my more recent rants I equated Trump to one of the Forsaken (made a point of gesturing toward him and saying "Chosen". Lightblinded darkfriend! ) I went so far as calling Trump the Lord of Chaos, as every appointment and executive order he has made/signed so far seems to generally go against the general good of mankind, even the world in general. Appoint anti- EPA guy who doesn't believe in climate change to the EPA. Appoint evil, Putin loving Oil exec as Secretary of State. Appoint evil racist alternate news exec as closets adviser. Appoint Investment Bank exec as economic adviser. You all get my point and can easily tune in on the US politics discussion to get more on the travel ban, racism, bigotry, etc etc. Calling Trump the Lord of Chaos implies I think he is Ishmael (Moridin). While Ishmael fits the bill in some ways, I think we may giving President Trump a bit too much credit. There is no way the Lord of Darkness can hold such a Buffoon in such high regard. Besides, I think Putin is a bigger fit for Moridin. I believe Rahvin and Demandred (to a lesser extent) are the better fits. (Source for below is WOT wiki) Rahvin: "Rahvin always loved power, and was envious of anyone who held more than him. Much preferring diplomacy over outright attack, Rahvin would most frequently use Compulsion and subtle manipulation instead of force." "Rahvin turned to the Shadow because of his thirst for power. Through his manipulations he had several regions surrender without invasion. " "showed a lack of attention to detail that undermined productivity during the War of Power. This carelessness can likely be attributed to his time spent with his lovers" Demandred "ike virtually all of the Forsaken, he was exceedingly arrogant, and was also phenomenally petty. His sole reason for defecting from the Light was jealousy towards Lews Therin, and he committed numerous atrocities out of sheer spite. He believed himself to be incapable of feeling affection, and openly treated those around him like tools to be used (if he could get away with it). He was also described as being the most angry of all the Forsaken, though his reasons for being so were not particularly justifiable." Which forsaken do you think Trump is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isalie Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 One that was killed in the War of Power because of his hubris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Tel Janin maybe? Conscious of his physical stature, likes grandiose schemes, abrupt and forceful in his interactions with his peers. Holds petty grudges. Also a good strategist, yet prone to being underestimated as impatient and too direct by opponents who are supposedly more sophisticated than him. His interaction with Graendal comes to mind, when he succeeded in completely manipulating the master manipulator herself, when claiming that he had been promised the Naeblis title by the Dark One. So much so that he coerced her into working with him to defeat Rand. While none fit precisely, I guess Sammael would be the closest fit in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wethers Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I'd go more Song of Ice and Fire. Janos Slynt. If Sam's tricks hadn't worked in book 3 and Slynt had become Lord Commander of the Wall and Castle Black. Incompetent for the actual job. Vain and utterly corrupt, lavishing praise on those who ally with him and contemptuous of those who don't. Didn't really care a hoot about the Wildlings deep down, but would implement hard-line policies against the Wildlings, leaving them out to die to energize his base (Alliser Thorne, Bowen Marsh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loge Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Trump isn't a Forsaken. He is a Whitecloak. Not sure which one. Has been too long since I read WoT. Alternatively, he could be that Shaido Aiel Wise One dictator (Sevannah?) if you do a gender swap. Come to think of it, Elaida is also a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Heir of Bear Island Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 On 2/2/2017 at 4:13 AM, Free Northman Reborn said: Tel Janin maybe? Conscious of his physical stature, likes grandiose schemes, abrupt and forceful in his interactions with his peers. Holds petty grudges. Also a good strategist, yet prone to being underestimated as impatient and too direct by opponents who are supposedly more sophisticated than him. His interaction with Graendal comes to mind, when he succeeded in completely manipulating the master manipulator herself, when claiming that he had been promised the Naeblis title by the Dark One. So much so that he coerced her into working with him to defeat Rand. While none fit precisely, I guess Sammael would be the closest fit in my view. Excellent point. I was sold with "Holds petty grudges", the rest just seals the deal. On 2/2/2017 at 4:38 AM, Loge said: Trump isn't a Forsaken. He is a Whitecloak. Not sure which one. Has been too long since I read WoT. Alternatively, he could be that Shaido Aiel Wise One dictator (Sevannah?) if you do a gender swap. Come to think of it, Elaida is also a good fit. I do like the Whitecloak and Elaida analogy. Maybe I'm giving Trump too much credit. He is not great or smart enough to be the mastermind or to even know he is being manipulated and on the wrong side of things. That would make Steve Bannon the Forsaken/Black Aja/Fain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I was gonna say he's no forsaken. They are, by virtue of having been the least developed, the most interesting and capable characters in the series. He's Egwene. Stumbling through the story and rising to power by virtue of plot armor and doubling down on madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A True Kaniggit Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I'd go with Mazrim Taim (AKA M'hael). Thinks he's a bad-ass but really, there is a Demandred out there that will show him what's what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 On 2/3/2017 at 4:08 PM, WinterFox said: I was gonna say he's no forsaken. They are, by virtue of having been the least developed, the most interesting and capable characters in the series. He's Egwene. Stumbling through the story and rising to power by virtue of plot armor and doubling down on madness. The Egwene comparison is a good one, but at least she is a good character. I would compare Trump with a Seanchen noble (not Tuon, more like the Darkfriend one), who has come to make Randland great again, as in the days of Artur Hawkwing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 34 minutes ago, Corvinus said: The Egwene comparison is a good one, but at least she is a good character. I would compare Trump with a Seanchen noble (not Tuon, more like the Darkfriend one), who has come to make Randland great again, as in the days of Artur Hawkwing. 'good' and 'character' are not words that should be used together to describe many WoT characters. I'm thinking about it, and I really have to double down on my position. Nobody thinks they're the bad guy in their own story (except for WoT darkfriends, I suppose) and Egwene *Donald* thinks she's on a magical carpet ride of goodness to save the day while Aran'gar *Bannon* goes about pulling the strings of calamity with his network of agents second only to that of Mogheiden *Karl Rove*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgulisMaximus Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Orange-haired Danaerys. Readers hate both of them. The poor folks love both of them. Both over-turn conventional practices and the old order. Donald's three fire breathing dragons are named Twitter, Kellyanne and Spicer. As for Wheel of Time analogies... Couladin the chief of the Shido Aiel. Just keeps attacking and attacking. And always boasts that he is the greatest of all time... which he often fails to back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Heir of Bear Island Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Couladin could work. I had a few more thoughts too, Masema, the false prophet is a good match in his "twisting of the truth" and self righteousness. Also Fain himself, who gained the help of the Whitcloaks (KKK) to get rid of "dark friends". (Spacing is done one purpose). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Weiramon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 No brainer... Elaida... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.