SeanF Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 2 hours ago, MorgulisMaximus said:  Grandaughter: "Grandpa, why are there no girls in your story?" Grandpa: "Patience, child... In the next book, there is a girl. But you have to pay close attention because she is dressed like a boy." Grandaughter angrily tugs her hair braid: "Hmph! Men! Grandpa, I hate your story!" In my experience, children just enjoy a good story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgulisMaximus Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 55 minutes ago, SeanF said: In my experience, children just enjoy a good story. If you search "statista.com and book genres boys and girls like..." you will see that you are indeed correct. But only in some categories. In the categories of war, romance, sports and animal stories there is a huge difference based on gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgulisMaximus Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 hour ago, polishgenius said: But I think you're misusing it here: there aren't too many other stats for demographic breakdown available, for either books or films... It's also not really a shock that a kid's book series skews younger than a not-kid's-book series. That doesn't mean readership of LotR is all going to die off and no-one will ever read it again, as you seem to be implying.  Valid points, it would require a scientific journal paper or PhD thesis to go into more statistical details... perhaps they do exist (just search Lexis-Nexis).  But fact is, Peter Jackson and his team (including the female script writers) purposely added more female roles and dialogue because they felt that they needed to make the story more accessible to female audiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 3 hours ago, MorgulisMaximus said: Grandaughter: "Grandpa, why are there no girls in your story?" Grandpa: "Patience, child... In the next book, there is a girl. But you have to pay close attention because she is dressed like a boy." Grandaughter angrily tugs her hair braid: "Hmph! Men! Grandpa, I hate your story!" The thing is that girls don't get all bent out of shape over gender inequalities in 60+ year old stories as long as, as SeanF already stated, the story is good. Also, I don't see a problem with reading my daughter a story where a woman rules a magical land and noble people, holds one of the most powerful artifacts in the world, is counted among the wisest people in the world, has a seat on the council of most powerful people in the world, even if her only "on screen" role in the story is to basically help heroes along the way. Oh yeah, and let's not forget that a woman actually kills the second most bad-ass villain in the story in order to save her uncle. In my book, that's a much better position women are in than tugging their braids and straightening their skirts, no matter the page count where they are represented or number of POV chapters they're given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgulisMaximus Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 39 minutes ago, baxus said: The thing is that girls don't get all bent out of shape over gender inequalities in 60+ year old stories as long as, as SeanF already stated, the story is good. Â Â I'm no child psychologist... but here's a simple test. Give your daughter the choice between a Luke Skywalker action figure and a Rey action figure. Give it a try! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 hour ago, MorgulisMaximus said: But fact is, Peter Jackson and his team (including the female script writers) purposely added more female roles and dialogue because they felt that they needed to make the story more accessible to female audiences. I never heard of this story before, and I don't think it's accurate. I can't think of absolutely no female character that was added to the movies. In fact, I think there are only three women with lines: Galadriel, Arwen and Eowyn. In terms of weight, I'd say that Galadriel is given the same importance that in the books. And while it's true that Arwen's role was significantly increased, Eowyn's was greatly decreased, so more or less we can call it even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgulisMaximus Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 12 minutes ago, The hairy bear said: I never heard of this story before, and I don't think it's accurate. I can't think of absolutely no female character that was added to the movies. In fact, I think there are only three women with lines: Galadriel, Arwen and Eowyn. In terms of weight, I'd say that Galadriel is given the same importance that in the books. And while it's true that Arwen's role was significantly increased, Eowyn's was greatly decreased, so more or less we can call it even. Remember Glorfindel??? In the film, Arwen steals his role. Many other examples, I'm pretty sure Walsh and Boyens (the scriptwriters) go over this in detail in the Appendices of the Extended Bluray Edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 As I said Arwen gets some more scenes. But many Eowyn plots from the books are removed: no speech to the Witch King, no Houses of Healing, no princedom of Ithilien,... I honestly wouldn't consider the movies as being more "female-friendly" than the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 46 minutes ago, The hairy bear said: I never heard of this story before, and I don't think it's accurate. I can't think of absolutely no female character that was added to the movies. In fact, I think there are only three women with lines: Galadriel, Arwen and Eowyn. In terms of weight, I'd say that Galadriel is given the same importance that in the books. And while it's true that Arwen's role was significantly increased, Eowyn's was greatly decreased, so more or less we can call it even. The only added female character with lines I can think of is the one from the Westmarch with the two kids who flee the destruction of their village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, Corvinus said: The only added female character with lines I can think of is the one from the Westmarch with the two kids who flee the destruction of their village. That's true. I didn't recall this one. Still doesn't compensate for removing Ioreth, Goldberry and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 The solution here is to read you kids Robin Hobb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: The solution here is to read you kids Robin Hobb. Why do you hate our kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 No. Kids must learn that life is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgulisMaximus Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 53 minutes ago, Leap said: I really have very few positive things to say about female WoT characters. Egwene has one strong arc imo, and that's about it. GRRM's female characters have more distinctive personalities than Jordan's female charcters. Jordan's women are often so similar that they kind of just blend together into an indistinct mass. Here's how I'd rank the GRRMs character development: 1.) Arya - from rebellious tomboy to ruthless killer... unlike the show version, the book version has some psychopathic tendencies 2.) Brienne - simple, principled and loyal... she is steadfast and determined to fullfill her mission (somewhat similar to Birgette in WoT) 3.) Cersei - discontent being behind Robert, ruthlessly ambitious in the acqusition of power, pettiness causes her to make strategic errors (somewhat like Moghedian in WoT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Oh dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Why are we making this into a competition? Coz if we are, out of male writers Terry Pratchett has the best female characters*. The best. And the series, it's 'uge. *And the best male characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Never heard of this Terry fella, is his stuff grimdark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Death is one of the major characters, how much darker can you get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo498 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 But Discworld Death is male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jo498 said: But Discworld Death is male. True, but sometimes his granddaughter takes over the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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