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Dragonglass arrowheads


Illyrio Mo'Parties

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16 minutes ago, cgrav said:

Coldhands seems like the really obvious choice to me. He's got an in with BR, who we are all but certain is observing the Wall via Mormont's raven. I guess this means we have find a way for CH or BR to possess the Horn, but I don't see anything that would get in the way of that. Certainly it's more plausible for them to have it than Osha. As for how Ghost found the stash, I think the necessary magic is well established. 

Time loops are fun, but I'm wary of using them to explain too much. Seems like if Bran had the ability to get that stash planted he might have included a bit more non-horn weaponry. CH is in my opinion the most straightforward and airtight explanation.

 

If this is a timeloop then Benjen was the one that stashed the treasure...Jon found the treasure...and Tyrion is the treasure. Three versions of the same loop. Benjen may have left a ringfort. Jon did leave a ringfort. Tyrion left a tent, which is kind of like a ringfort if you think about it. Benjen disappeared. Jon avoided conflict at the ring, but was later stabbed after first trying to rally men to go to Winterfell and then tried to calm down a giant. Tyrion also initially avoided death by lions, but then join the Second Sons and may face battle again. What's got my interest now, after we've gone through all this, are the possible parallels to the Second Sons. Maybe you see something?

The Second Sons are the oldest group of sellswords, but they don't have as much wealth as the Golden Company, and they don't have as good of a reputation either, but they have won some notable victories. 

Four hundred years ago the Second Sons stood in defense of Qohor along with the Bright Banners company against the first Dothraki khalasar to venture east since the Doom of Valyria. However, they suffered a defeat and fled the battlefield, though the battle was later won by the Three Thousand of Qohor, which were a force of Unsullied. 

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On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 9:02 AM, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

That's right, Jon, it must've - and perhaps it was written that Maester Luwin has a collection of obsidian weaponry for a reason as well.

Interesting.  I don't have my book handy.  Have you looked at Summer's initial reaction to CH vs. Ghosts reaction to the cache? 

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14 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

No. He tries to dig him up? What are you saying?

It's been a while since I've read it but I was curious if he was described as acting in a particular way that was similar to the way Summer reacted to CH.  Hair bristled?  Eyes Burning?  Any similar descriptions.  If not, it doesn't mean anything.  If so it could be a clue that CH was the one who hid the cache. 

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If I recall, Ghost led Jon to the stash through some back ways with some insistence, so I'd say he reacted to it quite oppositely from Summer. I'm not sure how much I read into that though, as so far Coldhands has done nothing bad to Bran. The "trust your wolf" thing may be an evolving theme as the characters shed their identities of dependency. Robb's wolf being right all the time was in the context of Robb's self doubt and dependence on others.

 

edit: yes, the severed hand fits the idea of Jon/Ghost being very different from Robb/GW and Bran/Summer. Ghost doesn't seem very squeamish about the corpse smell. Maybe his indifference to death is a sort of foreshadowing.

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3 hours ago, DarkSister1001 said:

It's been a while since I've read it but I was curious if he was described as acting in a particular way that was similar to the way Summer reacted to CH.  Hair bristled?  Eyes Burning?  Any similar descriptions.  If not, it doesn't mean anything.  If so it could be a clue that CH was the one who hid the cache. 

I'll try to remember to check some time. Ceebs right now

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On 2/16/2017 at 4:09 PM, Feather Crystal said:

If this is a timeloop then Benjen was the one that stashed the treasure...Jon found the treasure...and Tyrion is the treasure. Three versions of the same loop. Benjen may have left a ringfort. Jon did leave a ringfort. Tyrion left a tent, which is kind of like a ringfort if you think about it. Benjen disappeared. Jon avoided conflict at the ring, but was later stabbed after first trying to rally men to go to Winterfell and then tried to calm down a giant. Tyrion also initially avoided death by lions, but then join the Second Sons and may face battle again. ...

I think you're right about the obsidian cache somehow coming from Benjen. After re-reading the chapter several times and digging into some of the details, I've given up the notion that Mormont buried the cache (in a previous life or some time warp situation) but I do think he knew it would be there. Whether it's a prophecy, or Mormont is warging his raven which can "fly through the door between life and death" and might be able to communicate directly with Benjen, somehow he knew he had to get Jon and the direwolf to that location at a certain time in order to find the cache.

In addition to the Tyrion / treasure / Brown Ben Plumm parallel, some little clues in GRRM's word choices tell me that the discovery of the dragonglass cache also parallels the discovery of the direwolf pups and the discovery by Arya's wolf, Nymeria, of Catelyn's body in the river after the Red Wedding. The unveiling / presentation of Oathkeeper in both Tyrion and Brienne's presence is also connected.

I had been thinking that these "loops" (time loops or just similar but not exactly identical stories) were like links in a maester's chain. If I understand the metaphor correctly, now I think GRRM actually wants us to think of a suit of mail - a fabric made of links. (Part of what led me to this is the word "clinked" that describes the bundle containing the dragonglass. The search website tells me that clinking is usually a sound that comes from mail, specifically mail worn under a cloak. Sometimes it describes coins, which probably means that there is some Littlefinger symbolism off on the next tangent.) In other words, these links overlap in several directions, not just in a single circle.

Just to complicate things even further (or to explore the next overlapping link), I think that there is wordplay on "arrowheads," which are a major component of the obsidian cache, and "a row of heads," which is what Joffrey exhibits outside the walls of King's Landing and what Clarence Crabb created with magical help from his wife, creating The Whispers at Crackclaw Point. I think the crab and lobster symbolism relates to armor, so the row of heads at Crackclaw Point might represent the wisdom of Clarence Crabb in enlisting a weapon (a row of heads) to make himself invincible against another weapon (arrowheads).

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