Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Canon Claude

Does fAegon annoy anyone else?

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

I'm expressing my doubt that Aegon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. How does that theory work? Assuming it's true, how did Varys get a hold of that child? And why lie about him actually being Rhaegar's firstborn son instead of just telling the truth about him being Rhaegar's son by Lyanna?

I belive that Ashara Dayne took care of him.  Please watch the order of the green hands videos on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Please do :)

Okay, so it's all speculation but there are some definite possibilities.

Option 1) he planned to but there ended up not being enough time when Aerys opened the gates against Varys' advice/begging. It's possible that Rhaenys ran away from not only the men coming into the Red Keep but also Varys trying to coax her away from her mother at a very scary time.

Option 2) he planned to but there ended up not being enough time because it's harder to find and train a proper stunt double for a talking and Dornish-looking princess. KL has been home to horny Targaryen men for nearly 300 years, and Aegon IV alone could have left them with a legacy of many Valyrian-looking babies. Finding a Dornish girl of the right age, and training her to act like Rhaenys long enough to get the princess to safety would be far more tricky than looking for an Aegon-double who just needed to look right and be able to walk.

Option 3) honestly, in that time setting and culture, Rhaenys was just not as important politically. She was a girl. The priority was Aegon. It may have been that it was a spur of the moment plan and he could only save one of them, so they went with the boy, who stood a much better chance of sitting the throne in the future and avenging his father's death at some point.

Option 4) it just wasn't considered necessary. Any reasonable person would have seen the danger to Aegon, but who would have thought anyone would order the death of a girl? Rhaenys was far less likely to be able to win back the throne or avenge her father and grandfather. She could have even been considered a valuable hostage or eventual bride for the new king. No one with any decency could have foreseen the level of evil that Tywin used.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, The Hoare said:

To be fair, I think the intrigues from the southern courts is much more interesting for me.

 

It will probably take more than 7 books to finish the story, unless he start to kill a lot of characters.

Anyway, GRRM will probably die before ending his books.

Man i don't know it will be a close one if he manages to complete it before he dies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do agree with the OP. But most of the new characters/storylines that come about in Feast and the first half of Dance annoy me for one reason or another. I will say Aegonpresents a special annoyance he adds an extra unneeded complexity thats going to hold up the resolution of an already complex story. I don't mind the story being complex but he just seems an issue we could do without. Especially since imo the character himself is not likable or interesting. I think hes just there bc of what Dany says about the mummers dragon: it gives the hero something to fight. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

I belive that Ashara Dayne took care of him.  Please watch the order of the green hands videos on it.

Or if you want the short version, Jon has a twin. Ned took the babies to Starfall and left the Valyrian-looking one with the Daynes. That was safe because they were pro-Targ. 

I'm not sure how Aegon was supposed to have gotten into Varys' hands, or why they'd be calling him Aegon, but that's the main point.

Dany as Jon's twin also involves Ashara.

2 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Man i don't know it will be a close one if he manages to complete it before he dies.

It's not only possible but likely. There's no reason he can't finish it in two books. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Okay, so it's all speculation but there are some definite possibilities.

Option 1) he planned to but there ended up not being enough time when Aerys opened the gates against Varys' advice/begging. It's possible that Rhaenys ran away from not only the men coming into the Red Keep but also Varys trying to coax her away from her mother at a very scary time.

Option 2) he planned to but there ended up not being enough time because it's harder to find and train a proper stunt double for a talking and Dornish-looking princess. KL has been home to horny Targaryen men for nearly 300 years, and Aegon IV alone could have left them with a legacy of many Valyrian-looking babies. Finding a Dornish girl of the right age, and training her to act like Rhaenys long enough to get the princess to safety would be far more tricky than looking for an Aegon-double who just needed to look right and be able to walk.

Option 3) honestly, in that time setting and culture, Rhaenys was just not as important politically. She was a girl. The priority was Aegon. It may have been that it was a spur of the moment plan and he could only save one of them, so they went with the boy, who stood a much better chance of sitting the throne in the future and avenging his father's death at some point.

Option 4) it just wasn't considered necessary. Any reasonable person would have seen the danger to Aegon, but who would have thought anyone would order the death of a girl? Rhaenys was far less likely to be able to win back the throne or avenge her father and grandfather. She could have even been considered a valuable hostage or eventual bride for the new king. No one with any decency could have foreseen the level of evil that Tywin used.

Im pretty sure that everyone knew exactly what was going to happen to the Targaryen children. Dont think there was a shadow of a doubt about Tywin killing innocent children.

I don't think any of your points are good sorry. From what we get from Varys THE SINGLE MOST TRAGIC THING TO HIM is innocents and children suffering and if he had the chance to save Aegon than he 110% would have saved Rhaella aswell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rhaenys was older and therefore more recognizable. Adding a pisswater princess would have been a bigger liability when all they really needed was a male heir. 

 

Edit: can't keep these damn Targ names straight 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Im pretty sure that everyone knew exactly what was going to happen to the Targaryen children. Dont think there was a shadow of a doubt about Tywin killing innocent children.

I don't think any of your points are good sorry. From what we get from Varys THE SINGLE MOST TRAGIC THING TO HIM is innocents and children suffering and if he had the chance to save Aegon than he 110% would have saved Rhaella aswell.

Rhaenys.

Did you really read the points? That was an awfully fast response.

You don't seem to be allowing for the possibility that he wanted to save Rhaenys and was unable to do so. And that's fine. We all have our opinions. A lot of people want to think the worst of Varys.

2 minutes ago, cgrav said:

Rhaenys was older and therefore more recognizable. Adding a pisswater princess would have been a bigger liability when all they really needed was a male heir. 

Thank you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Or if you want the short version, Jon has a twin. Ned took the babies to Starfall and left the Valyrian-looking one with the Daynes. That was safe because they were pro-Targ. 

I'm not sure how Aegon was supposed to have gotten into Varys' hands, or why they'd be calling him Aegon, but that's the main point.

Dany as Jon's twin also involves Ashara.

It's not only possible but likely. There's no reason he can't finish it in two books. 

Jon has a twin but it is Val. Eddard and Varys made a deal. Eddard has implied that he made a deal with him before. How could Dany be Jon's twin she was born on Dragonstone we know that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Rhaenys.

Did you really read the points? That was an awfully fast response.

You don't seem to be allowing for the possibility that he wanted to save Rhaenys and was unable to do so. And that's fine. We all have our opinions. A lot of people want to think the worst of Varys.

Thank you. 

Sorry about name. I read all the points and none of them are realistic or good i think. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Jon has a twin but it is Val. Eddard and Varys made a deal. Eddard has implied that he made a deal with him before. How could Dany be Jon's twin she was born on Dragonstone we know that. 

I don't believe Dany is his twin. I was just mentioning that theory. And it would require that what we know about Dany being born on Dragonstone be wrong.

Val is not a Targaryen. 

Where did Ned imply that he'd previously made a deal with Varys?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Sorry about name. I read all the points and none of them are realistic or good i think. 

Okay. I disagree but that's all right. It's great to have a series of books so rich, complex, and layered that everyone sees different things in them. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I don't believe Dany is his twin. I was just mentioning that theory. And it would require that what we know about Dany being born on Dragonstone be wrong.

Val is not a Targaryen. 

Where did Ned imply that he'd previously made a deal with Varys?

Val is not a Targaryen but i think he is Jon's twin.

Im gonna search for when he implied it 5 min.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Okay. I disagree but that's all right. It's great to have a series of books so rich, complex, and layered that everyone sees different things in them. :D

Yeah half the please of the books is discussing this with other people.

Do you really think that the Loyal Targaryen Master of Whisperers Varys managed to sneak out Aegon and replace him with another kid but it was impossible for him to save Rhaenys because he couldnt find a kid that looked like her? Do you really think Elia would be okay with that? It is very shaky presmupitons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Val is not a Targaryen but i think he is Jon's twin.

Im gonna search for when he implied it 5 min.

Unlikely a secret Targ (though maybe BR's?), but I think her name is a Valyria reference hinting at Jon's identity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Yeah half the please of the books is discussing this with other people.

Do you really think that the Loyal Targaryen Master of Whisperers Varys managed to sneak out Aegon and replace him with another kid but it was impossible for him to save Rhaenys because he couldnt find a kid that looked like her? Do you really think Elia would be okay with that? It is very shaky presmupitons.

I didn't say that Elia would be okay with it. And I didn't say he couldn't find a kid who looked like her. Are you sure you read what I wrote? Cause you seem to have missed a lot of it. Let me see if I can be clearer.

It is going to be far, far easier to find a Valyrian-looking kid in King's Landing than to find a Dornish-looking one.

It is far easier to fool people with a fake 1 year old than with a fake 3 year old.

Aegon wasn't doing much other than walking and maybe saying a handful of words. Rhaenys was older, she had known mannerisms and pronunciations, likes and dislikes. She needed a double who was trained to act like her. Training takes time, especially with toddlers.

Again you're dismissing the idea that saving Rhaenys was planned but ended up not happening for whatever reasons.

It's hard to say what Elia thought or felt, but if I had the option of saving one of my children or none of them I would choose to save somebody. If there was hope that both could be saved and I lived in a medieval culture, I would be okay with letting the boy be saved first. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

The raven says "blood" when Jon is next to Val

That could reference many things. Jon and Val can't be closely related. She was born north of the Wall and he was born in Dorne. He has Targaryen blood (all but proven) and she is pure Wildling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, cgrav said:

Unlikely a secret Targ (though maybe BR's?), but I think her name is a Valyria reference hinting at Jon's identity.

Val + Dalla = Valhalla. There are Norse mythology references and homages scattered throughout the series.

But if you change Illyrio to the feminine and combine it with Varys you do get Valyria.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I didn't say that Elia would be okay with it. And I didn't say he couldn't find a kid who looked like her. Are you sure you read what I wrote? Cause you seem to have missed a lot of it. Let me see if I can be clearer.

It is going to be far, far easier to find a Valyrian-looking kid in King's Landing than to find a Dornish-looking one.

It is far easier to fool people with a fake 1 year old than with a fake 3 year old.

Aegon wasn't doing much other than walking and maybe saying a handful of words. Rhaenys was older, she had known mannerisms and pronunciations, likes and dislikes. She needed a double who was trained to act like her. Training takes time, especially with toddlers.

Again you're dismissing the idea that saving Rhaenys was planned but ended up not happening for whatever reasons.

It's hard to say what Elia thought or felt, but if I had the option of saving one of my children or none of them I would choose to save somebody. If there was hope that both could be saved and I lived in a medieval culture, I would be okay with letting the boy be saved first. 

It is not hard at all to imagine how Elia felt she was terrified and fearing for her children and would do whatever to keep them safe. 

This would be the talk between them if what you say is true. 

Varys: Hey Elia i found a toddler to swap your kid with so i can save him and they won't notice a thing 

Elia:  Wtf dude why cant you save both my children who the fuck cares if you can't find a girl that looks like Rhaenys you serve my house you cruel and heartless  bastard. You have the option of saving both my children and you only wish to save one of them? Fuck you dude what is the matter with you?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×