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Canon Claude

Does fAegon annoy anyone else?

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5 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

That could reference many things. Jon and Val can't be closely related. She was born north of the Wall and he was born in Dorne. He has Targaryen blood (all but proven) and she is pure Wildling.

You should watch the Order of the Green hand's videos they are by far the best asoiaf dudes i have ever listend to.

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2 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Sorry a friend borrowed Game of Thrones from me so i can't find the quote of Eddard implying that he made a deal with Varys.

Is this the quote you are looking for? 

Quote

That was not news that Eddard Stark welcomed, but it was true enough that they needed help, and Littlefinger had been almost a brother to Cat once. It would not be the first time that Ned had been forced to make common cause with a man he despised. “Very well,” he said, thrusting the dagger into his belt. “You spoke of Varys. Does the eunuch know all of it?”

Eddard IV.

If it is the quote, there is no way we can know he is speaking of Varys.

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1 minute ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

It is not hard at all to imagine how Elia felt she was terrified and fearing for her children and would do whatever to keep them safe. 

This would be the talk between them if what you say is true. 

Varys: Hey Elia i found a toddler to swap your kid with so i can save him and they won't notice a thing 

Elia:  Wtf dude why cant you save both my children who the fuck cares if you can't find a girl that looks like Rhaenys you serve my house you cruel and heartless  bastard. You have the option of saving both my children and you only wish to save one of them? Fuck you dude what is the matter with you?

 

Missing the point. Again. Rhaenys stunt double does not just have to look like her. The replacement kid has to be able to ACT like her.

You're not allowing for the medieval mindset. Boys were more important than girls, doubly so with royalty.

This would be the talk between them:

Varys: Lord Tywin is approaching the city. 
Elia: Then were are doomed.
Varys: Not necessarily, your highness. I believe there is a way to ensure the survival of yourself and your children.
Elia: Go on, I pray you.
Varys: There are many children in the city who could easily pass for Prince Aegon. It would be no great difficulty to place one of those children in the nursery, and secret the dear prince away to a place of safety.
Elia: And my daughter?
Varys: Possible, but more difficult. The Princess is known at court. There are those here who would happily bring to Lord Tywin's notice any discrepancy between the Princess' known habit and that of her replacement. A wrong word, or gesture could give the game away.
Elia: But you will try? You will do what you can?
Varys: I will do everything in my power, your highness. There need be no fear for yourself, dear lady. You would make a valuable hostage, and should the fact of the Prince or the Princess' absence be noted, no doubt the new king will assume you know where they can be found. You will be too important to harm. And your brother in Dorne will certainly exert all of his power to ensure your safe return home.
Elia: Thank you, Lord Varys. I shall pray to all the gods that you may succeed in this.
Varys: I as well, your highness. 

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3 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Is this the quote you are looking for? 

If it is the quote, there is no way we can know he is speaking of Varys.

Yes that is the quote what is the sentence before that please post.

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11 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

You should watch the Order of the Green hand's videos they are by far the best asoiaf dudes i have ever listend to.

If they're on YouTube, I'll check them out.

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2 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Yes that is the quote what is the sentence before that please post.

 
Quote

"I told Petyr our suspicions about Jon Arryn's death," Catelyn said. "He has promised to help you find the truth."

That was not news that Eddard Stark welcomed, but it was true enough that they needed help, and Littlefinger had been almost a brother to Cat once. It would not be the first time that Ned had been forced to make common cause with a man he despised. "Very well," he said, thrusting the dagger into his belt. "You spoke of Varys. Does the eunuch know all of it?"

 

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2 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Missing the point. Again. Rhaenys stunt double does not just have to look like her. The replacement kid has to be able to ACT like her.

You're not allowing for the medieval mindset. Boys were more important than girls, doubly so with royalty.

This would be the talk between them:

Varys: Lord Tywin is approaching the city. 
Elia: Then were are doomed.
Varys: Not necessarily, your highness. I believe there is a way to ensure the survival of yourself and your children.
Elia: Go on, I pray you.
Varys: There are many children in the city who could easily pass for Prince Aegon. It would be no great difficulty to place one of those children in the nursery, and secret the dear prince away to a place of safety.
Elia: And my daughter?
Varys: Possible, but more difficult. The Princess is known at court. There are those here who would happily bring to Lord Tywin's notice any discrepancy between the Princess' known habit and that of her replacement. A wrong word, or gesture could give the game away.
Elia: But you will try? You will do what you can?
Varys: I will do everything in my power, your highness. There need be no fear for yourself, dear lady. You would make a valuable hostage, and should the fact of the Prince or the Princess' absence be noted, no doubt the new king will assume you know where they can be found. You will be too important to harm. And your brother in Dorne will certainly exert all of his power to ensure your safe return home.
Elia: Thank you, Lord Varys. I shall pray to all the gods that you may succeed in this.
Varys: I as well, your highness. 

Man it is weak Do you really think a 3 year old girl was well known at court with distinguishing traits? Most people would probably have seen her but the "ACT LIKE HER" is kind of irelevant i think.

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Just now, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Man it is weak Do you really think a 3 year old girl was well known at court with distinguishing traits? Most people would probably have seen her but the "ACT LIKE HER" is kind of irelevant i think.

Have you known many 3 year olds? You can definitely tell one from another. It would not be remotely difficult to see the difference between a pampered princess and a kid raised in the slums. 

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17 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:
20 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

That could reference many things. Jon and Val can't be closely related. She was born north of the Wall and he was born in Dorne. He has Targaryen blood (all but proven) and she is pure Wildling.

 

what better ruse than literal impossibility?

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Hmm, it's possible that they DID have a stunt double for Rhaenys, but couldn't find her (since she was hiding under her father's bed on an upper level).

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Just now, Isobel Harper said:

Hmm, it's possible that they DID have a stunt double for Rhaenys, but couldn't find her (since she was hiding under her father's bed on an upper level).

Except that GRRM has said there is no question that Rhaenys was killed by Amory Lorch. I think his wording was that she was dragged from beneath her father's bed and killed.

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16 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

You should watch the Order of the Green hand's videos they are by far the best asoiaf dudes i have ever listend to.

I've enjoyed their videos, and they may be the most accurate but others have entertained me more.

Their discussion of the timeline was very intriguing if nothing else, and personally I hope they're right about Jon not being Rhaegar's son. GRRM has never to my knowledge done the "hidden prince" cliché so I'll be extremely disappointed if R+L=J. He's already most likely Azor Ahai, which is arguably a Christ figure. No more cheesiness is needed.

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It terms of the storytelling, it would be so obnoxious for little Rhaenys to reappear. She's mentioned like a couple times ever, while Aegon has a clear significance within the story.

Aegon and his supposed manner of death are mentioned frequently, and usually with the same words no matter who is thinking or saying them. The fact that he's thought of by many present day characters is a strong clue to the reader that is just not there for Rhaenys.

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1 minute ago, Praetor Xyn said:

I've enjoyed their videos, and they may be the most accurate but others have entertained me more.

Their discussion of the timeline was very intriguing if nothing else, and personally I hope they're right about Jon not being Rhaegar's son. GRRM has never to my knowledge done the "hidden prince" cliché so I'll be extremely disappointed if R+L=J. He's already most likely Azor Ahai, which is arguably a Christ figure. No more cheesiness is needed.

Jon is Lyanna's son. We know that much. Rhaegar is the most likely father, whether anyone likes it or not. The only other possibilities are Aerys or Arthur Dayne. 

He may or may not be Azor Ahai Reborn. If he's Rhae Rhae's kid then he's in the running for The Dragon That Was Promised, which may or may not be the same as AAR. 

GRRM is known for subverting tropes, not pretending they don't exist. Chessy is in the execution. If you have so little faith in the author I'm surprised you've read this far. The hidden prince trope involves more than just having a hidden prince. If any elements are missing, or even better turned on their heads, the trope is subverted. 

 

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1 minute ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Jon is Lyanna's son. We know that much. Rhaegar is the most likely father, whether anyone likes it or not. The only other possibilities are Aerys or Arthur Dayne. 

He may or may not be Azor Ahai Reborn. If he's Rhae Rhae's kid then he's in the running for The Dragon That Was Promised, which may or may not be the same as AAR. 

GRRM is known for subverting tropes, not pretending they don't exist. Chessy is in the execution. If you have so little faith in the author I'm surprised you've read this far. The hidden prince trope involves more than just having a hidden prince. If any elements are missing, or even better turned on their heads, the trope is subverted. 

 

We don't know that Jon is Lyanna's son were do you get that from?

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1 minute ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

We don't know that Jon is Lyanna's son were do you get that from?

Spoiler

From the fact that the ONLY question GRRM asked of D&D before allowing them produce his series for TV was who Jon's mother is, and they got the answer right. In all other things the show makes little difference (because they've made too many changes, particularly ones that make no sense) but there is no way they changed that detail.

Besides which every clue in the books indicates that Lyanna gave birth, and right after finding her that way Ned shows up with a baby who looks like her (emphasized in the text by Arya looking like her, and Arya thinking that only she and Jon look alike). And then of course there's the fact that there is literally no reason for Ned not to tell Cat the truth at some point unless Jon is Lyanna's and Ned thinks the father was a Targaryen.

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9 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

 

He may or may not be Azor Ahai Reborn. If he's Rhae Rhae's kid then he's in the running for The Dragon That Was Promised, which may or may not be the same as AAR. 
 

I think AA is an archetype that applies to several characters. Without delving into a massive essay, framing AA as a purely mythical character solves timeline problems with the Lightbringer forging myth as well as accommodating multiple AA Reborn characters in the present story.

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Just now, cgrav said:

I think AA is an archetype that applies to several characters. Without delving into a massive essay, framing AA as a purely mythical character solves timeline problems with the Lightbringer forging myth as well as accommodating multiple AA Reborn characters in the present story.

That makes the most sense, yes. And it would be very like GRRM to not give us clear-cut identities on the prophsied heroes. I read a quote from him once where he said people should pay less attention to the prophecies and more to Old Nan's stories. :D

Oh, by the way OP, yes I find Aegon annoying. Be he real or fake he gets on my nerves.

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