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What does House Royce remember?


hiemal

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Royce is the first House named in ASoIaF. Taken with their significant-seeming words and their association with ancient and supposedly potent runes I have to ask:

Does anyone have any good guess as to what kind of knowledge they might be preserving? Ser Waymar's fate leads me to believe that it is nothing to with the Others- perhaps it relates to pre-Andal/pre-Long Night Westeros? Maybe even before the Pact with Children? Is this knowledge specific to the Vale? It seems to me that the Royce's we've encountered have not fared well outside of the Vale?

Any tinfoil anyone has on the Royce's would be much appreciated in my quest to find this family's place in the ongoing story. Seriously- no theory too crackpot.

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If GRRM wanted to be snarky, he'd have the modern Royces forget what they supposedly still remember.

Sansa= Quick! Lord Royce! We need the knowledge that House Royce has held secure for so long!

Yohn= Er... well... I mean it's been so many years... Honestly we've just forgotten about what ever the Seven Hells that it was we say we remember...

Sansa= Seriously?! It's literally your House Words!!

Yohn= So by that logic, are you going to set all the Marbrands on fire? Do the Mallisters have to live in the sky so that their words are accurate?! We can't all pick house words that are always accurate, you know!

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54 minutes ago, James Steller said:

If GRRM wanted to be snarky, he'd have the modern Royces forget what they supposedly still remember.

Sansa= Quick! Lord Royce! We need the knowledge that House Royce has held secure for so long!

Yohn= Er... well... I mean it's been so many years... Honestly we've just forgotten about what ever the Seven Hells that it was we say we remember...

Sansa= Seriously?! It's literally your House Words!!

Yohn= So by that logic, are you going to set all the Marbrands on fire? Do the Mallisters have to live in the sky so that their words are accurate?! We can't all pick house words that are always accurate, you know!

Ha, I'd forgotten to factor in the possibility of perverse irony. Good call.

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5 minutes ago, Lyin' Ned said:

I can tell you what they don't remember: their balls! Where the hell were they when Robb needed help? Oh, that's right, obeying a total lunatic. Bad Royces, bad!

That's a fair point man, I imagine Lord Yohn Royce would have known Jon Arryn would have done the same and called his banners to help Robb, hell, Lord Arryns death is part of the reason the war began!  A united North, Riverland and Vale would have been nigh on unstoppable, and as the man who brokered the alliance, Bronze Yohn and whoever assisted would have many rewards to reap.

Their didn't seem to be much "First Men kinship" shown by The Lords of Runestone towards the Starks, whatever they remember, it doesn't seem to be honour for the Old Gods, or their own family history.

Mind you, I really do like The Royces and kinda hope they end up allied with Houses Blackwood and Reed in some kind of magical mystery union.

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6 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

You can pick your friends, but you can't pick your house words...cause your ancestors already did.

I think Bronze Yohn's runed bronze armor may have something to do with this.

That's been my most probable pick as well. I wish we knew more about runes and their connection with magic in ASoIaF. I'm tempted to ascribe to them the kind of power of "true-naming" that many earthly societies going through their adolescence of literacy seem to have left us but GRRM seems to stress that the runes of the first men weren't much use for the recording of history. Maybe because there is no longer anyone but the Royce's remembers how to read them?

Or at least did at the point at the past when they chose their words.

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4 hours ago, Livesundersink said:

Maybe the same thing that Pepperridge farm remembers.

I'm not sure that's completely off track, to be honest. They could just be saying "We remember" as in "We don't forget (an insult)". Lots of house words do essentially boil down to a poetic variant on "Oi! I know where you live..."

On the other hand I like to think there's some ancient secret behind it. OP suggests that Waymar's fate suggests that it's nothing to do with the Others, but I don't find that convincing. The Others certainly seemed interested in Waymar, didn't they? There is a running theme in ASOIAF of the negative consequences of people forgetting the true meaning of their words. Suppose the Others were testing Waymar to find out if he really did remember -- and he didn't? Might that even be the reason why the Others are on the move again?

 

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2 hours ago, Lyin' Ned said:

I can tell you what they don't remember: their balls! Where the hell were they when Robb needed help? Oh, that's right, obeying a total lunatic. Bad Royces, bad!

Pretty sure that if the Royces outright disobey their liege lords, they become outlawed, along with anyone who follows them to Robb's side.

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The Royces and Blackwoods and possibly the Daynes are significant in that they remain true to the old gods. this is significant, just as Sam switching to the old gods was very significant.

 

Bronze Yoren probably knew that Robb was on a fools errand going South - that the battle to come is in the North.

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26 minutes ago, Kingmonkey said:

I'm not sure that's completely off track, to be honest. They could just be saying "We remember" as in "We don't forget (an insult)". Lots of house words do essentially boil down to a poetic variant on "Oi! I know where you live..."

On the other hand I like to think there's some ancient secret behind it. OP suggests that Waymar's fate suggests that it's nothing to do with the Others, but I don't find that convincing. The Others certainly seemed interested in Waymar, didn't they? There is a running theme in ASOIAF of the negative consequences of people forgetting the true meaning of their words. Suppose the Others were testing Waymar to find out if he really did remember -- and he didn't? Might that even be the reason why the Others are on the move again?

 

Good point. What if the language the Others is somehow related to runes- a tongue that Waymar couldn't hail them in. It's an interesting possibility.

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Honestly it probably has to do with how the wheel of time got broken. edit: I feel like I should insert a joke about a Rolls Royce with a broken wheel. 

Spoiler

Their bronze armor reminds me of Euron's Valyrian steel armor. 

And on that wheel of time, history repeating and the loss of meaning of House words, it is probably connected to the instances we see of the phrase, "The North Remembers." 

Edit: and the Etymology of Royce is Rose or Fame

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1 hour ago, Kingmonkey said:

I'm not sure that's completely off track, to be honest. They could just be saying "We remember" as in "We don't forget (an insult)". Lots of house words do essentially boil down to a poetic variant on "Oi! I know where you live..."

 

This honestly made me laugh for about 5 minutes straight.

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It is most likely a reference that thousands of years ago, they were kings, and they basically ruled much of the Vale. The Bronze Kings were one of the most powerful First Men kings, and through their alliance almost turned the tide of the Andal takeover of the Vale, only to be foiled by some nerd and his goat path.

Alternatively, it could be that they hold some old traditions related to the Old Gods and the First Men, while still worshiping the Seven (I've seen no evidence that they worship the Old Gods).

A third explanation could be that the castle of Runestone has an actual rune stone similar to those of the old Scandinavians, on which a lot of history is recorded, but perhaps closely guarded.

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