A Burning Brandon (Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire)

[Bluetiger]

Just now, LmL said:

Oh, I bet that it is that indeed. Great catch!

And Guy Fawkes is a burning effigy, like the Wicker Man...

[Pain killer Jane]

45 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

And perhaps also a reference to Guy Fawkes, someone else who had taken a notion to try and kill a bunch of Lords.

Oh I love Guy Fawkes and his gunpowder, treason and plot. There are a ton of references to him throughout the series especially in context of the meta analysis of the relationship of the various religions of Westeros. And in England, his effigy is still burned on Guy Fawkes Day like a green man. Guy Fawkes Day is referred to as Bonfire Night or Firework night and Bonfires in the context of pagan religions is the Beltane ritual and it is evident that dragons in the series are supposed to represent the emergence of gunpowder weaponry.

In one of my many many esoteric ramblings of thought, I thought that if dragons in the context of Guy Fawkes as gunpowder and the friction of coexisting religions in the case of Guy Fawkes- the struggle between Catholicism and Protestantism, is related via the existence of the Dragon Binding Horn and the Horn of Winter in the series is related to the treatise "The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstruous Regiment of Women" by John Knox. Which the arguments against women having political power over men is both misogynistic, and religious motivated as John Knox was a protestant and his examples were against Catholic monarchs. But like I said those are some of my more abstract thoughts on the meta analysis of the series and it relationship to the social commentary GRRM is trying to convey to us.   

 

[cgrav]

39 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

 

And like I mentioned in Pateron, the deliberate lack of a comma in describing wife and sister can be that she was the wife and the sister of the Mad Huntsman. And then the six dogs are thrown down the well like a falling star into the sea, these dogs would be dogstars. 

Further, the purpose of throwing animals in the well would be to poison/corrupt it, sickening future drinkers, which fits very neatly with the Bloodstone Compendium notion of the comet and meteor destruction resulting in poison and sickness.

The well is also a symbol of divine knowledge in three Odin myth, which could indicate that some "poison" causes a corruption of mind and spirit, a la the Bloodstone Emperor.

I also think that mention of dogs evokes the astrological dog, Canis Major, which is the celestial companion to the the Sword of the Morning (Orion). Maybe someone with more time on their hands can look up what happens to Canis/Sirius during winter in the Northern Hemisphere.

[LmL]

8 minutes ago, cgrav said:

Further, the purpose of throwing animals in the well would be to poison/corrupt it, sickening future drinkers, which fits very neatly with the Bloodstone Compendium notion of the comet and meteor destruction resulting in poison and sickness.

The well is also a symbol of divine knowledge in three Odin myth, which could indicate that some "poison" causes a corruption of mind and spirit, a la the Bloodstone Emperor.

I also think that mention of dogs evokes the astrological dog, Canis Major, which is the celestial companion to the the Sword of the Morning (Orion). Maybe someone with more time on their hands can look up what happens to Canis/Sirius during winter in the Northern Hemisphere.

Yes, Lightbringer is like Euron's poisoned gifts. Its the fire of the gods, but comes with a kind of madness, just as shamanic vision does. It's powerful, but toxic. I think there is a theme of transmuting the poison however, somewhere in here. That may be what the weirwoods are doing.  That might be a part of the broken sword being reforged idea as well.

[Pain killer Jane]

9 minutes ago, cgrav said:

Further, the purpose of throwing animals in the well would be to poison/corrupt it, sickening future drinkers, which fits very neatly with the Bloodstone Compendium notion of the comet and meteor destruction resulting in poison and sickness.

The well is also a symbol of divine knowledge in three Odin myth, which could indicate that some "poison" causes a corruption of mind and spirit, a la the Bloodstone Emperor.

I also think that mention of dogs evokes the astrological dog, Canis Major, which is the celestial companion to the the Sword of the Morning (Orion). Maybe someone with more time on their hands can look up what happens to Canis/Sirius during winter in the Northern Hemisphere.

Absolutely, which is the meanings behind Greywater Watch and the Green Fork having the green leeching into it from the moss. Greywater is a term used for water that contains chemicals. And the other source for the name Blackwater, a term used for water containing human excrement. 

[cgrav]

6 minutes ago, LmL said:

Yes, Lightbringer is like Euron's poisoned gifts. Its the fire of the gods, but comes with a kind of madness, just as shamanic vision does. It's powerful, but toxic. I think there is a theme of transmuting the poison however, somewhere in here. That may be what the weirwoods are doing.  That might be a part of the broken sword being reforged idea as well.

Speaking of gifts... "gift" happens to be the German word for poison. The faceless Men's gift is both a metaphor and a pun.

[LmL]

5 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

Absolutely, which is the meanings behind Greywater Watch and the Green Fork having the green leeching into it from the moss. Greywater is a term used for water that contains chemicals. And the other source for the name Blackwater, a term used for water containing human excrement. 

Right, and black water comes from the God's Eye - from the moon-sun explosion  - just as waves of blood and night come from Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail.  The entire scene at Moat Cailin is about toxic moon meteors.... I talked a lot about this in Bloodstone C 3, Waves of Night and Moon Blood.

[Pain killer Jane]

4 minutes ago, LmL said:

Right, and black water comes from the God's Eye - from the moon-sun explosion  - just as waves of blood and night come from Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail.  The entire scene at Moat Cailin is about toxic moon meteors.... I talked a lot about this in Bloodstone C 3, Waves of Night and Moon Blood.

Yup that is one of my favorites of your podcasts. The moss in my example is acting like whitewash btw. And I just realized that we are back to the nennymoans. Time to call @ravenous reader

[ravenous reader]

10 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

Yup that is one of my favorites of your podcasts. The moss in my example is acting like whitewash btw. And I just realized that we are back to the nennymoans. Time to call @ravenous reader

As long as we don't get to the 'lime'...it's all good!

[Pain killer Jane]

1 minute ago, ravenous reader said:

As long as we don't get to the 'lime'...it's all good!

I'm still waiting on the coconut as big as a head but I will settle on the melon/head pun. 

[Bluetiger]

I was thinking about ADWD Epilogue. And I think it foreshadows the death of Second Moon. 

Pycelle = the ice moon, destroyed years ago, Btw Pycelle might come from Latin 'cella' or 'cellae':

Quote

1. a small room, a hut, barn, granary
2. the part of a temple where the image of a god stood; altar, sanctuary, shrine, pantry

Kevan = the fire moon. If Tywin is the sun, then his younger brother is moon.

Varys and his crossbow = LB and BE (Aegon?) who kills the moon. And he's a eunuch, like the Emperors of Yi Ti

 

Red = my comments

Quote

There was only one way to know. Ser Kevan rose. The moon rose. "Pray excuse me." Before he took his leave, he dropped to one knee and kissed his niece upon the hand. If her silent giant failed her, it might be the last kiss she would ever know.

The messenger was a boy of eight or nine, so bundled up in fur he seemed a bear cub. Trant had kept him waiting out on the drawbridge rather than admit him into Maegor's. "Go find a fire, lad," Ser Kevan told him, pressing a penny into his hand. "I know the way to the rookery well enough."

The snow had finally stopped falling. Behind a veil of ragged clouds, a full moon floated fat and white as a snowball. Moon again. The stars shone cold and distant. As Ser Kevan made his way across the inner ward, the castle seemed an alien place, where every keep and tower had grown icy teeth, and all familiar paths had vanished beneath a white blanket. Once an icicle long as a spear fell to shatter by his feet. The sunspear. Autumn in King's Landing, he brooded. What must it be like up on the Wall?

The door was opened by a serving girl, a skinny thing in a fur-lined robe much too big for her. Ser Kevan stamped the snow off his boots, removed his cloak, tossed it to her. "The Grand Maester is expecting me," he announced. The girl nodded, solemn and silent, and pointed to the steps.

Pycelle's chambers were beneath the rookery, a spacious suite of rooms cluttered with racks of herbs and salves and potions and shelves jammed full of books and scrolls. Ser Kevan had always found them uncomfortably hot. Not tonight. Once past the chamber door, the chill was palpable. Black ash and dying embers were all that remained of the hearthfire. The remains of the First Moon. A few flickering candles cast pools of dim light here and there.

The rest was shrouded in shadow … except beneath the open window, where a spray of ice crystals glittered in the moonlight, moon again swirling in the wind. On the window seat a raven loitered, pale, huge, its feathers ruffled. It was the largest raven that Kevan Lannister had ever seen. Larger than any hunting hawk at Casterly Rock, larger than the largest owl. Blowing snow danced around it, and the moon painted it silver.

Not silver. White. The bird is white.

The white ravens of the Citadel did not carry messages, as their dark cousins did. When they went forth from Oldtown, it was for one purpose only: to herald a change of seasons. Summer is about to end. And seasons shall turn.

"Winter," said Ser Kevan. The word made a white mist in the air. He turned away from the window. The moon turns.

Then something slammed him in the chest between the ribs, hard as a giant's fist. The LB hits the moon. It drove the breath from him and sent him lurching backwards. The white raven took to the air, its pale wings slapping him about the head. Ser Kevan half-sat and half-fell onto the window seat. What … who … A quarrel was sunk almost to the fletching in his chest. No. No, that was how my brother died. Blood was seeping out around the shaft. "Pycelle," he muttered, confused. "Help me … I …"

Then he saw. Grand Maester Pycelle was seated at his table, his head pillowed on the great leather-bound tome before him. Sleeping, Kevan thought … until he blinked and saw the deep red gash in the old man's spotted skull and the blood pooled beneath his head, staining the pages of his book. All around his candle were bits of bone and brain, islands in a lake of melted wax. The First Moon is already gone, for a long time.

He wanted guards, Ser Kevan thought. I should have sent him guards. Could Cersei have been right all along? Was this his nephew's work? "Tyrion?" he called. "Where …?"

"Far away," a half-familiar voice replied.

He stood in a pool of shadow by a bookcase, plump, pale-faced, round-shouldered, clutching a crossbow in soft powdered hands. Silk slippers swaddled his feet.

"Varys?"

The eunuch set the crossbow down. "Ser Kevan. Forgive me if you can. I bear you no ill will. This was not done from malice. It was for the realm. For the children." 

I have children. I have a wife. Oh, Dorna. Pain washed over him. He closed his eyes, opened them again. "There are … there are hundreds of Lannister guardsmen in this castle."

"But none in this room, thankfully. This pains me, my lord. You do not deserve to die alone on such a cold dark night. Dark, moonless night. There are many like you, good men in service to bad causes … but you were threatening to undo all the queen's good work, to reconcile Highgarden and Casterly Rock, bind the Faith to your little king, unite the Seven Kingdoms under Tommen's rule. So …"

A gust of wind blew up. Ser Kevan shivered violently. Moon shivers.

"Are you cold, my lord?" asked Varys. "Do forgive me. The Grand Maester befouled himself in dying, and the stink was so abominable that I thought I might choke." The poisoned moon meteors. 

Ser Kevan tried to rise, The moon can't rise now! but the strength had left him. He could not feel his legs.

"I thought the crossbow fitting. You shared so much with Lord Tywin, why not that? Your niece will think the Tyrells had you murdered, mayhaps with the connivance of the Imp. The Tyrells will suspect her. Someone somewhere will find a way to blame the Dornishmen. Doubt, division, and mistrust will eat the very ground beneath your boy king, whilst Aegon raises his banner above Storm's End and the lords of the realm gather round him."

"Aegon?" For a moment he did not understand. Then he remembered. A babe swaddled in a crimson cloak, the cloth stained with his blood and brains. "Dead. He's dead." Kevan thought that Aegon was dead, just like it seemed that the comet is destroyed and gone for good. But it's back to finish its work.

"No." The eunuch's voice seemed deeper. "He is here. Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them."

Kevan Lannister tried to cry out … to his guards, his wife, his brother … but the words would not come. Blood dribbled from his mouth. He shuddered violently.

"I am sorry." Varys wrung his hands. "You are suffering, I know, yet here I stand going on like some silly old woman. Time to make an end to it." The eunuch pursed his lips and gave a little whistle. The horn... The moonbreaker, the dragonbinder, the horn of winter!

Ser Kevan was cold as ice, and every labored Childbrith reference? breath sent a fresh stab of pain through him. He glimpsed movement, heard the soft scuffling sound of slippered feet on stone. A child emerged from a pool of darkness, a pale boy in a ragged robe, no more than nine or ten. Another rose up behind the Grand Maester's chair. The girl who had opened the door for him was there as well. They were all around him, half a dozen of them, white-faced children with dark eyes, boys and girls together. And the Children (COTF) help to finish him.

And in their hands, the daggers.

 

 

So I expect that the Second Moon will be gone soon.

[Pain killer Jane]

2 hours ago, LmL said:

What I am wondering is whether this hypothetical offspring of meteors and mud should be thought of as 'men,' or earth-assocated being, or as water associated beings like crannogmen and squishers. Honestly I am not too sure this is similar to what we are talking about with the bifurcation of ice and fire. That has to do with splitting elements of the weirwood, I am thinking, as both the fiery sorcerers and Others seem to come from trees. The Others are also tied to lightning.  But these mud-man scenes seem to involve meteors sticking their lightbringer into the mud, with no tree involved. 

Its hard to explain because I am still in muddy waters myself on the analysis. I have many theories but none concrete. Mostly I consider it to be an expression of 'crawling through the mud' or "being down in the shit" as a cloak in order to move forward in life. After all both of those idioms are used as defining points for in the way people see themselves. Septon Meribald exemplifies this but at the same time he is wandering star. 

I have other analysis of the brown brothers as the cycle, the wheel and the dragon eating its own tail, but those are extremely esoteric and meta since they involve things like the serpentine steps existing simultaneously as a ladder going up and then lying down and as a serpentine hallway; Phylogenetic Trees, Holographic Principle, and the snake crawling in the mud, climbing up the tree, growing wings and then falling back into the mud being all the same but being different as well which would make them the wheel, the cycle, and the dragon that eats its own tail, if I involve the Singer's Stew/bowl o' brown being the same as the three Frey pies. But like I said its dense and abstruse and I have that kink to work out in my transmission of such explanations. 

Its a Muddy Mess in other words. 

[cgrav]

Speaking of celestial events, I've got a little theory related to that and the Icarus theme. 

So the Icarus archetype is someone who seeks "divine" knowledge beyond their comprehension and suffers for it, but that theme begs a question: what knowledge is divine?

With Bran, he was "burned" by solar king Jaime, but I haven't yet seen discussed the significance of what knowledge he gained that provoked the sun god. And we all know what he saw, which was Jaime and Cersei. That's the sun and moon copulating, just like Qartheen dragon myth, which we interpret as an eclipse. What Bran learned was the ability to say exactly when and where the sun and moon would come together. Thus, Bran's Icarus moment is a re-telling of the discovery of astrology/astronomy (specifically eclipse cycles).

And to people not astronomically inclined, the ability to predict "irregular" events like eclipses would probably be perceived as controlling or causing them. And if those superstitious folks had the ability to control things like comets... well how better to  fight back than by demolishing what they saw as the weapon of the astronomers? Magic vs Empiricism once again.

 

[Pain killer Jane]

8 minutes ago, cgrav said:

Speaking of celestial events, I've got a little theory related to that and the Icarus theme. 

So the Icarus archetype is someone who seeks "divine" knowledge beyond their comprehension and suffers for it, but that theme begs a question: what knowledge is divine?

With Bran, he was "burned" by solar king Jaime, but I haven't yet seen discussed the significance of what knowledge he gained that provoked the sun god. And we all know what he saw, which was Jaime and Cersei. That's the sun and moon copulating, just like Qartheen dragon myth, which we interpret as an eclipse. What Bran learned was the ability to say exactly when and where the sun and moon would come together. Thus, Bran's Icarus moment is a re-telling of the discovery of astrology/astronomy (specifically eclipse cycles).

And to people not astronomically inclined, the ability to predict "irregular" events like eclipses would probably be perceived as controlling or causing them. And if those superstitious folks had the ability to control things like comets... well how better to  fight back than by demolishing what they saw as the weapon of the astronomers? Magic vs Empiricism once again.

 

You're right in a sense that we haven't out right discussed the knowledge gained. We are still in the process of justifying that the stealing of divine knowledge even happened and how the process took place.

And I agree that the discovery of the movement of the stars and the universe is one type of knowledge gained from this. I tend to take the stance that the divine knowledge was the True Form of God as in the myth of Dionysus, where his mother, Semele, demanded Zeus to show her his true form (tricked by Hera) and she was burned to death and only left Dionysus, not yet brought to term and then Zeus sewed him into his thigh so he could be born.  

[cgrav]

Just goes to show how much of the story was given to us right up front in the prologue and Bran's first chapters. In fact our first moon meteor symbol is Gared's head, which bounces off a tree root and comes to a stop at Theon's feet, linking the Ironborn and Weirwood from the outset.

Sometimes I wonder if the ancient disaster didn't also result in the stars becoming misaligned. The statement in Bran I that a direwolf hasn't been seen south of the Wall in 200 years makes me think that Canis Major is not visible in most of Westeros. 

I'll defer to LmL on points of astronomy/astrology, but it's really cool when all these nitty gritty symbolism discussions line up so well with the large scale mythology presented from the very first page.

[Equilibrium]

Great essay, man, you never disappoint. 

It's really dense this time, not with ideas (there are those as well, many novel to me) but with uncovered symbolism. What can you do, that symbolism is thick as the castle wall. As much as it is awesome when you unveil it like that and all fits, I really hope I am not waiting for TWOW sixth year now so Martin can make everything a stand in or symbolic representation of a meteor 

Nice to see you are thorough to the maximum, I fail to see how anyone can ignore your findings. They are now obvious but the amount of textual symbolism that backs it up is staggering, more and more with each installment. But again it's all there, not a big stretch, I remember when we did comparative analysis of the AFFC prologue in the days of yore, results are there for all who know where to look.

Anyway for the text as you mount the evidence it is ever harder to find anything to add, and focused style of the particular essay left me without much to say strictly related.

As much as I would loathe to start new Thirty Years War I must mention that "communion ritual practiced by Christians the world round – bread and wine are eaten to symbolize that Jesus’s body and blood are given to nourish and sustain mankind" line is actually not true, only Protestants believe it symbolizes anything, according to Catholic and Ortodox theology (which combined make up the majority of Christians) people believe that bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Jesus during the ritual (that process is called Transubstantiation). Maybe that information even helps you in theorycrafting since Martin was raised Catholic.

Given the amount of the Viking stuff included in your explanations, I want to point out the few interesting things (maybe someone already mentioned them, but I either missed or forgot. 

Recently I came across the book Star Myths of the Vikings written by Bjorn Jonsson who does exactly what you are doing here with Viking texts. He claims that Vikings made their entire mythology around the astronomy, and that that had both spiritual and practical reasons to do so. One of the claims is also that Milky Way represents the world tree Yggdrasill. The concept of the world tree and the birds that live on its branches and the snake on its roots are highly universal motifs. It has been thought that visually the Milky Way is more similar to a tree especially in Northern areas and at lower latitudes, the association with a pathway or a river is more common, whereas the latter is almost never mentioned in the north. Therefore identifying the large ash tree Yggdrasill with the Milky Way is a logical solution for Scandinavian regions. So is the rest of the mythological places represented by celestial bodies, practical side of which was that constellations and stars were easier to remember (for sailing) because they had stories and mythological significance behind them.

Also another thing worth looking into is the sunstone, piece of crystal polarizing the sun light that Vikings probably used to navigate in cloudy and snowy weather. The name alone and the use are bound to yield some connections, but there is more. Sunstone is used in allegorical works and as allegory itself. It is connected to the winter, obviously, and some scholars thing that in later Islandic texts sunstone is connected to Virgin Mary and represents birth of Jesus, you know the ray of light shining through etc.

[Bluetiger]

15 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

Great essay, man, you never disappoint. 

It's really dense this time, not with ideas (there are those as well, many novel to me) but with uncovered symbolism. What can you do, that symbolism is thick as the castle wall. As much as it is awesome when you unveil it like that and all fits, I really hope I am not waiting for TWOW sixth year now so Martin can make everything a stand in or symbolic representation of a meteor 

Nice to see you are thorough to the maximum, I fail to see how anyone can ignore your findings. They are now obvious but the amount of textual symbolism that backs it up is staggering, more and more with each installment. But again it's all there, not a big stretch, I remember when we did comparative analysis of the AFFC prologue in the days of yore, results are there for all who know where to look.

Anyway for the text as you mount the evidence it is ever harder to find anything to add, and focused style of the particular essay left me without much to say strictly related.

As much as I would loathe to start new Thirty Years War I must mention that "communion ritual practiced by Christians the world round – bread and wine are eaten to symbolize that Jesus’s body and blood are given to nourish and sustain mankind" line is actually not true, only Protestants believe it symbolizes anything, according to Catholic and Ortodox theology (which combined make up the majority of Christians) people believe that bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Jesus during the ritual (that process is called Transubstantiation). Maybe that information even helps you in theorycrafting since Martin was raised Catholic.

Given the amount of the Viking stuff included in your explanations, I want to point out the few interesting things (maybe someone already mentioned them, but I either missed or forgot. 

Recently I came across the book Star Myths of the Vikings written by Bjorn Jonsson who does exactly what you are doing here with Viking texts. He claims that Vikings made their entire mythology around the astronomy, and that that had both spiritual and practical reasons to do so. One of the claims is also that Milky Way represents the world tree Yggdrasill. The concept of the world tree and the birds that live on its branches and the snake on its roots are highly universal motifs. It has been thought that visually the Milky Way is more similar to a tree especially in Northern areas and at lower latitudes, the association with a pathway or a river is more common, whereas the latter is almost never mentioned in the north. Therefore identifying the large ash tree Yggdrasill with the Milky Way is a logical solution for Scandinavian regions. So is the rest of the mythological places represented by celestial bodies, practical side of which was that constellations and stars were easier to remember (for sailing) because they had stories and mythological significance behind them.

Also another thing worth looking into is the sunstone, piece of crystal polarizing the sun light that Vikings probably used to navigate in cloudy and snowy weather. The name alone and the use are bound to yield some connections, but there is more. Sunstone is used in allegorical works and as allegory itself. It is connected to the winter, obviously, and some scholars thing that in later Islandic texts sunstone is connected to Virgin Mary and represents birth of Jesus, you know the ray of light shining through etc.

And of course this great book is out of print now :/

I read about it after finshing 'The Hammer and The Cross. A new history of the Vikings', where Robert Fergusson mentions that theory that Yggy = Milky Way. Sadly it seems there's no way to get that book :/

Another interesting concept us that Yggdrasil represents both macrocosmic and microcosmic events. As above so below...

[Equilibrium]

3 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

And of course this great book is out of print now :/

I read about it after finshing 'The Hammer and The Cross. A new history of the Vikings', where Robert Fergusson mentions that theory that Yggy = Milky Way. Sadly it seems there's no way to get that book :/

Another interesting concept us that Yggdrasil represents both macrocosmic and microcosmic events. As above so below...

Concept of both micro and macro representation actually comes up a lot in literature, and even in medieval Nordic literature. In one of the tales about St. Olav there is a round rotating house that represents both the universe and human soul. It also includes strong allusions to astronomy and use of the sunstone.

[LmL]

3 hours ago, cgrav said:

Just goes to show how much of the story was given to us right up front in the prologue and Bran's first chapters. In fact our first moon meteor symbol is Gared's head, which bounces off a tree root and comes to a stop at Theon's feet, linking the Ironborn and Weirwood from the outset.

Sometimes I wonder if the ancient disaster didn't also result in the stars becoming misaligned. The statement in Bran I that a direwolf hasn't been seen south of the Wall in 200 years makes me think that Canis Major is not visible in most of Westeros. 

I'll defer to LmL on points of astronomy/astrology, but it's really cool when all these nitty gritty symbolism discussions line up so well with the large scale mythology presented from the very first page.

Naw the first moon meteor symbol was the shower of needles from Waymar's broken sword   So even earlier! But yeah, it's all in the prologue, or at least a lot of it is, and I can also do well proving any part of my theory with just AGOT material, save for the AA prophecy which is in the prologue of ACOK. 

[LmL]

1 hour ago, Equilibrium said:

Great essay, man, you never disappoint. 

It's really dense this time, not with ideas (there are those as well, many novel to me) but with uncovered symbolism. What can you do, that symbolism is thick as the castle wall. As much as it is awesome when you unveil it like that and all fits, I really hope I am not waiting for TWOW sixth year now so Martin can make everything a stand in or symbolic representation of a meteor 

Nice to see you are thorough to the maximum, I fail to see how anyone can ignore your findings. They are now obvious but the amount of textual symbolism that backs it up is staggering, more and more with each installment. But again it's all there, not a big stretch, I remember when we did comparative analysis of the AFFC prologue in the days of yore, results are there for all who know where to look.

Anyway for the text as you mount the evidence it is ever harder to find anything to add, and focused style of the particular essay left me without much to say strictly related.

As much as I would loathe to start new Thirty Years War I must mention that "communion ritual practiced by Christians the world round – bread and wine are eaten to symbolize that Jesus’s body and blood are given to nourish and sustain mankind" line is actually not true, only Protestants believe it symbolizes anything, according to Catholic and Ortodox theology (which combined make up the majority of Christians) people believe that bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Jesus during the ritual (that process is called Transubstantiation). Maybe that information even helps you in theorycrafting since Martin was raised Catholic.

Given the amount of the Viking stuff included in your explanations, I want to point out the few interesting things (maybe someone already mentioned them, but I either missed or forgot. 

Recently I came across the book Star Myths of the Vikings written by Bjorn Jonsson who does exactly what you are doing here with Viking texts. He claims that Vikings made their entire mythology around the astronomy, and that that had both spiritual and practical reasons to do so. One of the claims is also that Milky Way represents the world tree Yggdrasill. The concept of the world tree and the birds that live on its branches and the snake on its roots are highly universal motifs. It has been thought that visually the Milky Way is more similar to a tree especially in Northern areas and at lower latitudes, the association with a pathway or a river is more common, whereas the latter is almost never mentioned in the north. Therefore identifying the large ash tree Yggdrasill with the Milky Way is a logical solution for Scandinavian regions. So is the rest of the mythological places represented by celestial bodies, practical side of which was that constellations and stars were easier to remember (for sailing) because they had stories and mythological significance behind them.

Also another thing worth looking into is the sunstone, piece of crystal polarizing the sun light that Vikings probably used to navigate in cloudy and snowy weather. The name alone and the use are bound to yield some connections, but there is more. Sunstone is used in allegorical works and as allegory itself. It is connected to the winter, obviously, and some scholars thing that in later Islandic texts sunstone is connected to Virgin Mary and represents birth of Jesus, you know the ray of light shining through etc.

 

1 hour ago, Blue Tiger said:

And of course this great book is out of print now :/

I read about it after finshing 'The Hammer and The Cross. A new history of the Vikings', where Robert Fergusson mentions that theory that Yggy = Milky Way. Sadly it seems there's no way to get that book :/

Another interesting concept us that Yggdrasil represents both macrocosmic and microcosmic events. As above so below...

Hey EQ, good to see you round my brother. This one was quite focused for two reasons: I chose to cut out other whole sections which were a part of this in order to better develop the Nightfort scene and its connections to Queenscrown and Bran's fall from the tower.  As soon as I did that the thing really came alive. The second reason is that so many other people (whom I mentioned in the essay) had already done good work on Bran or had helped me develop my Bran ideas in chat before making the episode. Also, I've been holding Bran back until we were ready for him, so it was kind of an explosion. We have more Bran ideas to go obviously, I haven't talked about Fisher Kings or Bran the Blessed or his Tully fish symbolism. 

The milky way Yggdrasil thing makes a certain amount of sense, but there is a potential problem. The much more widely accepted correlation to mythical world trees like Yggy is that of the world axis. Even the milky way itself appears to rotate with the canopy of stars, while the axis and the northstar atop it alone are immovable, central. We have everything from navel stones to sacred mountains to cosmic trees and tree totems, but they are all the same thing - the cosmic axis (which they perceived as the earth's axis).  I mean, it's quite a feature fo the sky - it spins in a circle. The Northstar looks like the point of a spindle on which the sky turns, so it's logical to imagine a tree. Now, it's possible Yggy is referring to more than one thing, and that there is overlap, so I am not trying to be dogmatic.. but it is first and foremost the cosmic axis, the axis mundi. 

As for the milky way, it's all over the place in the books. The Milkwater is the most obvious, Nymeria's ships might be a reference to that, and I think Martin is actually likening Dawn and the Wall to the milky way in some senses. I think he might be associating the milk way with a crossing over point river, like the Styx, which is one reason why the weirwood door is milk and moonlight. 

As for transubstantiaton, not all Catholics literally believe that - most do not in fact. It's one of those weird things that doesn't really make sense in modern times, and so has been de=emphasized. But you're right to point out that some take it more literally.