Most precise ASOIAF timeline v.3

[Lost Melnibonean]

21 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Since Tyrion leaves Westeros early in 300 AC, and ADWD ends about half a year, or slightly more, later, it cannot be the new year yet.

I suppose it is possible that Volantis has decided to go to war earlier than originally planned.

Or maybe the George was trying to push time faster...

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

8 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Or maybe the George was trying to push time faster...

I doubt it, since in ADWD it is later specified that the Red Wedding is only some half a year ago. And unless Roslin has been pregnant for more than a year, since she has not yet given birth when the GC lands (and had only conceived at the end of 299 AC), Volantis has a different date for the new year than Westeros (who, we know, start the count of their year on the day Aegon was crowned in Oldtown, and Volantis has absolutely no reason to use Aegon as a reference for their own count.).

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

I doubt it, since in ADWD it is later specified that the Red Wedding is only some half a year ago. And unless Roslin has been pregnant for more than a year, since she has not yet given birth when the GC lands (and had only conceived at the end of 299 AC), Volantis has a different date for the new year than Westeros (who, we know, start the count of their year on the day Aegon was crowned in Oldtown, and Volantis has absolutely no reason to use Aegon as a reference for their own count.).

You win.

[Zyee]

This isn't about the timeline but the travel speed rates. Someone wrote that in Quentyn II for a 100 miles it takes 6 days large group riding, but it's actually league. I mean, the document doesn't say it's 100 but everything is in mpd. 

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It was a hundred leagues from Astapor to Yunkai by the old Ghiscari coast road, and another fifty from Yunkai to Meereen. The free companies, well mounted, could reach Yunkai in six days of hard riding, or eight at a more leisurely pace. The legions from Old Ghis would take half again as long, marching afoot, and the Yunkai'i and their slave soldiers … 

 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

21 hours ago, Zyee said:

This isn't about the timeline but the travel speed rates. Someone wrote that in Quentyn II for a 100 miles it takes 6 days large group riding, but it's actually league. I mean, the document doesn't say it's 100 but everything is in mpd. 

 

Fixed it!  

[Lost Melnibonean]

In Theon Winds, 

Spoiler

it is still snowing...

Quote

The door opened with a gust of cold black wind and a swirl of snow.

...

The maester vanished in another blast of cold and snow.

...

Roose Bolton was not a man to blunder blindly out into the snow, map or no.

 

In Jon XIII, Dance 69, the storm has ended...

Quote

The Wall was a dull white, the sky above it whiter. A snow sky. "Just pray we do not get another storm."

Although, another storm would begin again before the chapter's end. 

[SFDanny]

@Rhaenys_Targaryen can I ask the thinking for listing Jon's name day before Robb's? It seems clear to me that both Catelyn and Ned's stories are that Jon is conceived after Ned leaves her pregnant with Robb. Sometime after that date, not right after it. Whatever the real date of Jon's birth, it should be clear that his name day is celebrated after Robb's. Or that is how I see it.

[TMIFairy]

@Rhaenys_Targaryen

Thank you for this document! It is an invaluable aid for me when writing That Which Shall Not Be Mentioned on this board.

In II.300 you have a little mess with Tyrion - he first leaves Pentos - 2.II, and then he he kills Tywin on 7.II .

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

On 15-7-2017 at 9:20 AM, TMIFairy said:

@Rhaenys_Targaryen

Thank you for this document! It is an invaluable aid for me when writing That Which Shall Not Be Mentioned on this board.

In II.300 you have a little mess with Tyrion - he first leaves Pentos - 2.II, and then he he kills Tywin on 7.II .

Oops! That's a silly mistake, of course. Will change it!

 

On 15-7-2017 at 0:56 AM, SFDanny said:

@Rhaenys_Targaryen can I ask the thinking for listing Jon's name day before Robb's? It seems clear to me that both Catelyn and Ned's stories are that Jon is conceived after Ned leaves her pregnant with Robb. Sometime after that date, not right after it. Whatever the real date of Jon's birth, it should be clear that his name day is celebrated after Robb's. Or that is how I see it.

That stems from the issue with Tyrion's travel-time in AGOT. Jon turns 15 while Tyrion is still at the Wall. But Tyrion has such long distances to travel  after leaving the Wall (from the Wall to Winterfell, from Winterfell to the Inn at the Crossroads, from there to the Eyrie, to Tywin's army, wich whom he stays for a while, until he leaves for KL), that having Tyrion leave the Wall much later than he does now brings us in trouble with his travel-speed (which is already rather fast ). 

If you know a way to tweak it so the order is properly displayed, please don't hesitate to post it Because I agree, with Ned's story and Catelyn's believes, Jon's nameday is celebrated after Robb's, not before.

[SFDanny]

6 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Oops! That's a silly mistake, of course. Will change it!

 

That stems from the issue with Tyrion's travel-time in AGOT. Jon turns 15 while Tyrion is still at the Wall. But Tyrion has such long distances to travel  after leaving the Wall (from the Wall to Winterfell, from Winterfell to the Inn at the Crossroads, from there to the Eyrie, to Tywin's army, wich whom he stays for a while, until he leaves for KL), that having Tyrion leave the Wall much later than he does now brings us in trouble with his travel-speed (which is already rather fast ). 

If you know a way to tweak it so the order is properly displayed, please don't hesitate to post it Because I agree, with Ned's story and Catelyn's believes, Jon's nameday is celebrated after Robb's, not before.

Thank you, RT. I know this issue, but i was hoping there was more that I wasn't seeing.

As I think I've stated before, I think the answer in all cases is  to only use travel times for starting estimates when we have nothing else to go on. Sequence should, I believe, trump travel times every time in making up these timelines. I'll get back to you with any suggestions on how best to fix this.

[TMIFairy]

It's me again

"Tywin's funerals" are listed twice -12.II and 14.II - not that two days makes much of a difference - he was a smelly boy either way

The 9.II (my BD, BTW) entry of 300AC is so cryptic that it simply must foreshadow something awesome   - "only cat" - DUM!DUM!DUM!

 

 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

46 minutes ago, TMIFairy said:

It's me again

"Tywin's funerals" are listed twice -12.II and 14.II - not that two days makes much of a difference - he was a smelly boy either way

That's not a mistake Both chapters describe one of the seven days and nights of Tywin's funeral. During Jaime's chapter, we learn that it has not yet been seven days (which is why the two chapters are not placed further apart), but that the smell is becomming so bad that Jaime feels Cersei should call an end to it anyway.

46 minutes ago, TMIFairy said:

The 9.II (my BD, BTW) entry of 300AC is so cryptic that it simply must foreshadow something awesome   - "only cat" - DUM!DUM!DUM!

 

 

Hahaha, I've added slightly more info (though it still states "only cat" as well )

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

On 16-7-2017 at 9:08 PM, SFDanny said:

Thank you, RT. I know this issue, but i was hoping there was more that I wasn't seeing.

As I think I've stated before, I think the answer in all cases is  to only use travel times for starting estimates when we have nothing else to go on. Sequence should, I believe, trump travel times every time in making up these timelines. I'll get back to you with any suggestions on how best to fix this.

That would be much appreciated

[TMIFairy]

1 hour ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

That's not a mistake Both chapters describe one of the seven days and nights of Tywin's funeral.

 

Oh, silly me. I missed this being a drawn out affair with Tywin ending up post end-date

[Lost Melnibonean]

Mercy, Winds?

Alayne, Winds? 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

On 10-3-2017 at 11:57 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

The only thing I still have to do is adjust the Jon timeline. Jon 9 needs to be moved to ~7-1, as per my earlier post, but that means that more northern chapters need changing, and I haven't gotten to those chapters yet.

So I've been able to fix this, though it required more changes than I had expected.

 

• We start at Reek II. This chapter remains at 4-5, but I've added Roose's arrival at Moat Cailin separately on 5-9.
• Jon 6 has been moved a few days up, to 4-12, as summons to Barrowton and the statement of Ramsay marrying Arya would likely only be sent after Roose had arrived.
• The Wayward Bride is moved to 4-25, accounting for time for Roose and Ramsay to travel to Barrowton as well as time for the raven to reach Asha
• Melisandre I is moved to 4-18, keeping the difference of 6 days with Jon 6 as previously was the case as well
• Jon 7 has been moved to 4-29 and 4-30
• The start of Ramsay's 16-day hunt has been moved to 5-18
• Davos's chapter remains at 4-17, as Wyman leaves White Harbor only after this  chapter, but must have arrived at Barrowton at the start of Ramsay's hunt (which was previously dated prior to Davos 4)
• Ramsay's return from his hunt (Reek III) has been moved to 6-2, giving Manderly about a month to travel from WH to Barrowton. This is based on @Lost Melnibonean's estimation of ~30 days of travel.
• Jon 8 is moved to 6-18; There is a (waxing) half moon. Val says to look for her at the full moon, but as that would be 8 days away, she likely returned late. Her return is placed on 7-25.
• The King's Prize moves up 2 weeks. So the start of Stannis's march is placed on 6-16. They'll end their 34-day march on 7-20. The start of the snows is relocated to 6-20 (the fourth day of the march).
• Ramsay's wedding (Theon 4) is moved to 6-14
• Jon 9 is relocated to 7-2, as Tycho arrives at CB from Eastwatch with news about GC ships in the Stepstones, indicating that news about GC ships have reached Braavos, after which Tycho travelled to Eastwatch. Based on the distance between Lannisport and Bear Island, it would take about 2 weeks for a ship to travel from the Stepstones to Braavos, and slightly less than 2 weeks for a ship to travel from Braavos to Eastwatch. So about a month, at least, needs to have passed between the GC sailing through the Stepstones and Tycho arriving at CB. (giving them a few days to travel from Eastwatch to CB). So Jon 9 should be moved to ~7-1, and the subsequent Jon, Asha, and Theon chapters should be matched accordingly, as Tycho has arrived at Stannis's camp by the end of Asha's last chapter.
  Additionally, in Jon 9 Jon notes that the snows have moved south (so since Jon 8 on 6-18), and apparently a while already as Jon notes the respite they had gotten due to the improved weather. These snows arrive in Asha's chapter (The King's Prize) on the fourth day of the march (6-20).
  And last, this places Jon 9 ~4,5 months after Jon 1, a very, very rough "half a year" since Jon 1 (the time Jon believed he needed to make the Nightfort habitable).
• The Turncloak is moved to 6-20 as well, to match with the snow in  The King's Prize
• All subsequent Theon and Asha entries from The Sacrifice, A Ghost in Winterfell, Theon I, Jon X, XI, XII and XIII have been relocated according to the dates given thusfar. The time in between the entries has not changed.

 

As always, please let me know if you spot any mistakes!

[TheSeason]

I don't know that this is the proper place to ask this question, as it doesn't exactly pertain to the chapter order or current event timelines of the novels. It's a question about the timeline extending into the past, actually. If @Rhaenys Targaryen or someone who knows better than I do about such matters (I don't really pay attention to timelines or travel speeds, but this document is rather amazing! Kudos to all who have worked on or contributed to making it better!) would deign to weigh in here... 

In another topic, we were discussing the exact(ish) timeline of the Harrenhal tourney, Aegon VI's conception and birth, Rhaegar's abduction of Lyanna, Jon and Dany's conception/birth dates, Rhaegar's departure from King's Landing for the Battle of the Trident, Chelsted's resignation and burning, Rhaella's rape by Aerys II, Rossart's brief (fortnight) reign as Hand of the King, etc., as it relates to Dany's conception and birth, the storm that smashed the Targaryen fleet, and Darry's flight with Viserys and Dany to Braavos, and there appears to be a mistake (either the author made a mistake in the timeline or Jaime has a mistaken memory of what happened/who was with him, if anyone, at the time of Dany's conception). 

The mistake: Jaime remembers that Jonothor "Jon" Darry  was guarding Rhaella's bedchamber door with him the night that Aerys II raped Rhaella (conceiving Dany), following Chelsted's resignation and burning, and the appointment of Lord Rossart to office of Hand of the King (should take place sometime during the Battle of the Trident). However, Jon Darry should have left for the Trident with Rhaegar already, as he is stated to have died in the Battle of the Trident (alongside Prince Rhaegar, Llewyn Martell, and--almost, earning a grievous injury!--Barristan Selmy). As LC Gerold Hightower, Oswell Whent, and Arthur Dayne were guarding the Tower of Joy at this time (in the Red Mountains of Dorne, where Lyanna--and, later, Jon--was (likely) located), it seems that Jaime should have been guarding the door alone that night. There is a possibility (a very small one?) that Jaime has confused Ser Willem Darry, the master-at-arms of the Red Keep (who fled to Dragonstone with Rhaella and Viserys, who protected Viserys and Dany from the soldiers who wanted to sell them to Robert Baratheon, who fled across the Narrow Sea to Braavos with Viserys and Dany a day before Stannis arrived at Dragonstone, managing to keep them safe) with his sworn brother of the Kingsguard, Ser Jonothor Darry, but I find that particularly doubtful (it's a hard switch to make, between a "brother" and a "brother's" relative!). There are some other (dubious) possibilities I list in my comment (in spoiler tag below). [Jaime also alleges that Barristan Selmy was (most likely) present in King's Landing at this time also (Rhaella's rape by Aerys/Dany's conception), when he asks Rhaegar to appoint Selmy to guard Aerys II instead of himself--this, when they were leaving for the Battle of the Trident--probably because of the trauma of standing outside the door and doing nothing whilst Rhaella was raped (and other injurious complicities inflicted upon Kingsguard knights).]

 

We discussed the matter in this thread (my comment linked): 

My comment, containing the pertinent quotes (that I can recall) is in spoiler tags, here: 

Spoiler

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 0:56 AM, Ygrain said:

Just a little correction here: the rape took place before Rhaegar's departure for the Trident, because Darry, who was also killed at the Trident, is guarding the door along with Jaime.

Really? Lord Rossart served Aerys II as Hand for a fortnight, following Chelsted's burning (ETA: for "insulting" Aerys by quitting as Hand when he learned of the wildfire plot. It's clear this plot began in secret whilst Rhaegar was still in residence, but it makes more sense that Chelsted doesn't find out about until after Rhaegar's departure, else he should have approached the crown prince who was sort of "acting" as king, intending to set aside his father, instead of crazy Aerys who'd burn him alive for it--I mean, out of survival instinct alone, if not because it would be more efficient to have Rhaegar act, seize the throne, take control of his father and the wildfire cache, and negotiate with the rebels from his place as king, which might have ended the rebellion if he was willing to make peace. I guess I see this as sort of a "missed opportunity" event; had Jaime simply told Rhaegar what Aerys was planning before he left the city, I don't think Rhaegar would have left the city so long as his father had the authority to raze it to the ground on a whim, with all/half of their family and all of their subjects within.). This is a nice find, indicating a huge timeline conflict that I never really noticed before. 

ETA: forgot the most important quote, establishing timeline of Rossart's reign as Hand. Doy!

Quote

Tyrion I, Clash

Littlefinger laughed. "You're a braver man than me, Lannister. You do know the fate of our last two Hands?"

"Two? If you mean to frighten me, why not say four?"

"Four?" Littlefinger raised an eyebrow. "Did the Hands before Lord Arryn meet some dire end in the Tower? I'm afraid I was too young to pay them much mind."

"Aerys Targaryen's last Hand was killed during the Sack of King's Landing, though I doubt he'd had time to settle into the Tower. He was only Hand for a fortnight. The one before him was burned to death. And before them came two others who died landless and penniless in exile, and counted themselves lucky. I believe my lord father was the last Hand to depart King's Landing with his name, properties, and parts all intact."

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rossart

Quote

Tyrion V, Clash

Tyrion smiled up at him. "When you tell me to dress warmly, I dress warmly. When you tell me to be careful, well . . ." He gave a shrug. "I've seen enough. Perhaps you would be so good as to escort me back up to my litter?"

"It would be my great, hmmm, pleasure, my lord." Hallyne lifted the lamp and led the way back to the stairs. "It was good of you to visit us. A great honor, hmmm. It has been too long since the King's Hand graced us with his presence. Not since Lord Rossart, and he was of our order. That was back in King Aerys's day. King Aerys took a great interest in our work."

King Aerys used you to roast the flesh off his enemies. His brother Jaime had told him a few stories of the Mad King and his pet pyromancers. "Joffrey will be interested as well, I have no doubt." Which is why I'd best keep him well away from you.

 

Tyrion XI, Clash

"No, no," Hallyne squeaked, "the sums are accurate, I swear. We have been, hmmm, most fortunate, my lord Hand. Another cache of Lord Rossart's was found, more than three hundred jars. Under the Dragonpit! Some whores have been using the ruins to entertain their patrons, and one of them fell through a patch of rotted floor into a cellar. When he felt the jars, he mistook them for wine. He was so drunk he broke the seal and drank some."

"There was a prince who tried that once," said Tyrion dryly. "I haven't seen any dragons rising over the city, so it would seem it didn't work this time either." The Dragonpit atop the hill of Rhaenys had been abandoned for a century and a half. He supposed it was as good a place as any to store wildfire, and better than most, but it would have been nice if the late Lord Rossart had told someone. "Three hundred jars, you say? That still does not account for these totals. You are several thousand jars ahead of the best estimate you gave me when last we met."

"Yes, yes, that's so." Hallyne mopped at his pale brow with the sleeve of his black-and-scarlet robe. "We have been working very hard, my lord Hand, hmmm."

 

Jaime II, Storm

A moon's turn later, a royal raven arrived at Casterly Rock to inform him that he had been chosen for the Kingsguard. He was commanded to present himself to the king during the great tourney at Harrenhal to say his vows and don his cloak.

Jaime's investiture freed him from Lysa Tully. Elsewise, nothing went as planned. His father had never been more furious. He could not object openly—Cersei had judged that correctly—but he resigned the Handship on some thin pretext and returned to Casterly Rock, taking his daughter with him. Instead of being together, Cersei and Jaime just changed places, and he found himself alone at court, guarding a mad king while four lesser men took their turns dancing on knives in his father's ill-fitting shoes. So swiftly did the Hands rise and fall that Jaime remembered their heraldry better than their faces. The horn-of-plenty Hand and the dancing griffins Hand had both been exiled, the mace-and-dagger Hand dipped in wildfire and burned alive. Lord Rossart had been the last. His sigil had been a burning torch; an unfortunate choice, given the fate of his predecessor, but the alchemist had been elevated largely because he shared the king's passion for fire. I ought to have drowned Rossart instead of gutting him.

Brienne was still awaiting his answer. Jaime said, "You are not old enough to have known Aerys Targaryen . . ."

 

Jaime II, Storm

But when he closed his eyes, it was Aerys Targaryen he saw, pacing alone in his throne room, picking at his scabbed and bleeding hands. The fool was always cutting himself on the blades and barbs of the Iron Throne. Jaime had slipped in through the king's door, clad in his golden armor, sword in hand. The golden armor, not the white, but no one ever remembers that. Would that I had taken off that damned cloak as well.

When Aerys saw the blood on his blade, he demanded to know if it was Lord Tywin's. "I want him dead, the traitor. I want his head, you'll bring me his head, or you'll burn with all the rest. All the traitors. Rossart says they are inside the walls! He's gone to make them a warm welcome. Whose blood? Whose?"

"Rossart's," answered Jaime.

 

Jaime V, Storm

He floated in heat, in memory. "After dancing griffins lost the Battle of the Bells, Aerys exiled him." Why am I telling this absurd ugly child? "He had finally realized that Robert was no mere outlaw lord to be crushed at whim, but the greatest threat House Targaryen had faced since Daemon Blackfyre. The king reminded Lewyn Martell gracelessly that he held Elia and sent him to take command of the ten thousand Dornishmen coming up the kingsroad. Jon Darry and Barristan Selmy rode to Stoney Sept to rally what they could of griffins' men, and Prince Rhaegar returned from the south and persuaded his father to swallow his pride and summon my father. But no raven returned from Casterly Rock, and that made the king even more afraid. He saw traitors everywhere, and Varys was always there to point out any he might have missed. So His Grace commanded his alchemists to place caches of wildfire all over King's Landing. Beneath Baelor's Sept and the hovels of Flea Bottom, under stables and storehouses, at all seven gates, even in the cellars of the Red Keep itself.

"Everything was done in the utmost secrecy by a handful of master pyromancers. They did not even trust their own acolytes to help. The queen's eyes had been closed for years, and Rhaegar was busy marshaling an army. But Aerys's new mace-and-dagger Hand was not utterly stupid, and with Rossart, Belis, and Garigus coming and going night and day, he became suspicious. Chelsted, that was his name, Lord Chelsted." It had come back to him suddenly, with the telling. "I'd thought the man craven, but the day he confronted Aerys he found some courage somewhere. He did all he could to dissuade him. He reasoned, he jested, he threatened, and finally he begged. When that failed he took off his chain of office and flung it down on the floor. Aerys burnt him alive for that, and hung his chain about the neck of Rossart, his favorite pyromancer. The man who had cooked Lord Rickard Stark in his own armor. And all the time, I stood by the foot of the Iron Throne in my white plate, still as a corpse, guarding my liege and all his sweet secrets.

"My Sworn Brothers were all away, you see, but Aerys liked to keep me close. I was my father's son, so he did not trust me. He wanted me where Varys could watch me, day and night. So I heard it all." He remembered how Rossart's eyes would shine when he unrolled his maps to show where the substance must be placed. Garigus and Belis were the same. "Rhaegar met Robert on the Trident, and you know what happened there. When the word reached court, Aerys packed the queen off to Dragonstone with Prince Viserys. Princess Elia would have gone as well, but he forbade it. Somehow he had gotten it in his head that Prince Lewyn must have betrayed Rhaegar on the Trident, but he thought he could keep Dorne loyal so long as he kept Elia and Aegon by his side. The traitors want my city, I heard him tell Rossart, but I'll give them naught but ashes. Let Robert be king over charred bones and cooked meat. The Targaryens never bury their dead, they burn them. Aerys meant to have the greatest funeral pyre of them all. Though if truth be told, I do not believe he truly expected to die. Like Aerion Brightfire before him, Aerys thought the fire would transform him . . . that he would rise again, reborn as a dragon, and turn all his enemies to ash.

***

"Ned Stark was racing south with Robert's van, but my father's forces reached the city first. Pycelle convinced the king that his Warden of the West had come to defend him, so he opened the gates. The one time he should have heeded Varys, and he ignored him. My father had held back from the war, brooding on all the wrongs Aerys had done him and determined that House Lannister should be on the winning side. The Trident decided him.

"It fell to me to hold the Red Keep, but I knew we were lost. I sent to Aerys asking his leave to make terms. My man came back with a royal command. 'Bring me your father's head, if you are no traitor.' Aerys would have no yielding. Lord Rossart was with him, my messenger said. I knew what that meant.

"When I came on Rossart, he was dressed as a common man-at-arms, hurrying to a postern gate. I slew him first. Then I slew Aerys, before he could find someone else to carry his message to the pyromancers. Days later, I hunted down the others and slew them as well. Belis offered me gold, and Garigus wept for mercy. Well, a sword's more merciful than fire, but I don't think Garigus much appreciated the kindness I showed him."

 

Epilogue, Dance

Ser Kevan wished that he could share his certainty. He had known Jon Connington, slightly—a proud youth, the most headstrong of the gaggle of young lordlings who had gathered around Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, competing for his royal favor. Arrogant, but able and energetic. That, and his skill at arms, was why Mad King Aerys had named him Hand. Old Lord Merryweather's inaction had allowed the rebellion to take root and spread, and Aerys wanted someone young and vigorous to match Robert's own youth and vigor. "Too soon," Lord Tywin Lannister had declared when word of the king's choice had reached Casterly Rock. "Connington is too young, too bold, too eager for glory."

The Battle of the Bells had proved the truth of that. Ser Kevan had expected that afterward Aerys would have no choice but to summon Tywin once more … but the Mad King had turned to the Lords Chelsted and Rossart instead, and paid for it with life and crown. That was all so long ago, though. If this is indeed Jon Connington, he will be a different man. Older, harder, more seasoned … more dangerous. "Connington may have more than the Golden Company. It is said he has a Targaryen pretender."

"A feigned boy is what he has," said Randyll Tarly.

 

Jaime II, Storm

A new stepfather, most like. Jaime knew the look in his sister's eyes. He had seen it before, most recently on the night of Tommen's wedding, when she burned the Tower of the Hand. The green light of the wildfire had bathed the face of the watchers, so they looked like nothing so much as rotting corpses, a pack of gleeful ghouls, but some of the corpses were prettier than others. Even in the baleful glow, Cersei had been beautiful to look upon. She'd stood with one hand on her breast, her lips parted, her green eyes shining. She is crying, Jaime had realized, but whether it was from grief or ecstasy he could not have said.

The sight had filled him with disquiet, reminding him of Aerys Targaryen and the way a burning would arouse him. A king has no secrets from his Kingsguard. Relations between Aerys and his queen had been strained during the last years of his reign. They slept apart and did their best to avoid each other during the waking hours. But whenever Aerys gave a man to the flames, Queen Rhaella would have a visitor in the night. The day he burned his mace-and-dagger Hand, Jaime and Jon Darry had stood at guard outside her bedchamber whilst the king took his pleasure. "You're hurting me," they had heard Rhaella cry through the oaken door. "You're hurting me." In some queer way, that had been worse than Lord Chelsted's screaming. "We are sworn to protect her as well," Jaime had finally been driven to say. "We are," Darry allowed, "but not from him."

Jaime had only seen Rhaella once after that, the morning of the day she left for Dragonstone. The queen had been cloaked and hooded as she climbed inside the royal wheelhouse that would take her down Aegon's High Hill to the waiting ship, but he heard her maids whispering after she was gone. They said the queen looked as if some beast had savaged her, clawing at her thighs and chewing on her breasts. A crowned beast, Jaime knew.

ETA: This sequence gives us: 

Tywin Lannister--Hand until Harrenhal Tourney/Jaime's investiture, whereupon he resigns upon a pretext and returns to Casterly Rock, returning only upon the Sack of King's Landing

Orton Merryweather--Hand from Harrenhal to Pre-Battle of the Bells (possibly Battle of Ashford and Robert's retreat northward), thereafter exiled

Jon Connington---Hand from Pre-Battle of the Bells to Battle of the Bells, thereafter exiled

*Rhaegar returns from south, urges father to appoint Tywin to Handship; Tywin does not answer; Kevan apparently does not know that Aerys applied to Tywin for aid during this period* (This also means, Rhaegar returned from the south in the early months of the war, sometime following the Battle of the Bells and Connington's exile, and spent the remainder of the war marshalling his army until the Battle of the Trident, with the long lull in between. It was Lyanna who was missing for a year, not Rhaegar; they spent only a few months together, it appears, from the "new year" following the False Spring to the Battle of the Bells, whereupon Hightower locates Rhaegar and gives him his father's command/request to return to King's Landing and put down the rebellion.)

Chelsted--Hand from Battle of the Bells (aftermath) to His Burning by Wildfire upon Resignation

Rossart--Hand from Chelsted's Burning/Resignation to Sack of King's Landing

Yet we also have this from Jaime about Rhaella's rape the night Chelsted was burned, also from Jaime II:

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The sight had filled him with disquiet, reminding him of Aerys Targaryen and the way a burning would arouse him. A king has no secrets from his Kingsguard. Relations between Aerys and his queen had been strained during the last years of his reign. They slept apart and did their best to avoid each other during the waking hours. But whenever Aerys gave a man to the flames, Queen Rhaella would have a visitor in the night. The day he burned his mace-and-dagger Hand, Jaime and Jon Darry had stood at guard outside her bedchamber whilst the king took his pleasure. "You're hurting me," they had heard Rhaella cry through the oaken door. "You're hurting me." In some queer way, that had been worse than Lord Chelsted's screaming. "We are sworn to protect her as well," Jaime had finally been driven to say. "We are," Darry allowed, "but not from him."

Jaime had only seen Rhaella once after that, the morning of the day she left for Dragonstone. The queen had been cloaked and hooded as she climbed inside the royal wheelhouse that would take her down Aegon's High Hill to the waiting ship, but he heard her maids whispering after she was gone. They said the queen looked as if some beast had savaged her, clawing at her thighs and chewing on her breasts. A crowned beast, Jaime knew.

The only way to reconcile these two events is if Rhaegar and Darry left that night, which would be ludicrous, or early the next morning following Rhaella's rape... However, this does not jive with the date of Rhaegar and Darry's deaths, on the Trident, the event being two weeks after their departure from King's Landing. Of their departure we get only this (edited to expand quote, suggestive of "daytime" as their departure--also suggestive of Rhaegar as "acting" king during this period: Jaime calls Rhaegar "Your Grace!" but Joffrey/Tommen, who are also "crown prince" for a time are never called "Your Grace" during the period of another king's reign...): 

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Jaime I, Feast

The day had been windy when he said farewell to Rhaegar, in the yard of the Red Keep. The prince had donned his night-black armor, with the three-headed dragon picked out in rubies on his breastplate. "Your Grace," Jaime had pleaded, "let Darry stay to guard the king this once, or Ser Barristan. Their cloaks are as white as mine."

Prince Rhaegar shook his head. "My royal sire fears your father more than he does our cousin Robert. He wants you close, so Lord Tywin cannot harm him. I dare not take that crutch away from him at such an hour."

Jaime's anger had risen up in his throat. "I am not a crutch. I am a knight of the Kingsguard."

"Then guard the king," Ser Jon Darry snapped at him. "When you donned that cloak, you promised to obey."

Rhaegar had put his hand on Jaime's shoulder. "When this battle's done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but . . . well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken. We shall talk when I return."

Those were the last words Rhaegar Targaryen ever spoke to him. Outside the gates an army had assembled, whilst another descended on the Trident. So the Prince of Dragonstone mounted up and donned his tall black helm, and rode forth to his doom.

And we know Dany was born a full nine months after the Sack of King's Landing (which itself was a fortnight after Rhaegar's death on the Trident, with Rhaella fleeing with Viserys to Dragonstone a week after Rhaegar was killed as his army fled south to King's Landing for protection/to regroup). As I said in my post above, a pregnancy going overdue two weeks or a conception delayed a few days is in no way abnormal, but trying to weasel at least a full month into this timespan is extremely difficult. 

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Daenerys I, Game

Yet sometimes Dany would picture the way it had been, so often had her brother told her the stories. The midnight flight to Dragonstone, moonlight shimmering on the ship's black sails. Her brother Rhaegar battling the Usurper in the bloody waters of the Trident and dying for the woman he loved. The sack of King's Landing by the ones Viserys called the Usurper's dogs, the lords Lannister and Stark. Princess Elia of Dorne pleading for mercy as Rhaegar's heir was ripped from her breast and murdered before her eyes. The polished skulls of the last dragons staring down sightlessly from the walls of the throne room while the Kingslayer opened Father's throat with a golden sword.

She had been born on Dragonstone nine moons after their flight, while a raging summer storm threatened to rip the island fastness apart. They said that storm was terrible. The Targaryen fleet was smashed while it lay at anchor, and huge stone blocks were ripped from the parapets and sent hurtling into the wild waters of the narrow sea. Her mother had died birthing her, and for that her brother Viserys had never forgiven her.

She did not remember Dragonstone either. They had run again, just before the Usurper's brother set sail with his new-built fleet. By then only Dragonstone itself, the ancient seat of their House, had remained of the Seven Kingdoms that had once been theirs. It would not remain for long. The garrison had been prepared to sell them to the Usurper, but one night Ser Willem Darry and four loyal men had broken into the nursery and stolen them both, along with her wet nurse, and set sail under cover of darkness for the safety of the Braavosian coast.

This information is corroborated by Stannis, who claims to have sailed in the next day, only to find that Willem Darry had taken Viserys and Dany across the Narrow Sea, "stealing" them from the soldiers who'd hoped to sell them to Robert to their deaths. It's been corroborated by others as well. This is an iconic storm with monumental political significance, so messing with or mussing up the date of this event would be very strange. 

I can only conclude there was some sort of mistake made by the author, because Jaime should have been guarding Rhaella's door alone that night, not alongside any of his sworn brothers, who should have been elsewhere... but that isn't possible, given that Jaime would have barged into the room, if it were solely him. The other option I can think of is that Jaime's confused Willem Darry, the master-at-arms, with his sworn brother, Jon Darry, in this memory... but that's also ludicrous crackpot, I admit. ETA: the very last crackpot reconciliation I can make is that they waited two weeks, in wartime, with Crown Prince Rhaegar off to battle the Usurper, to name Rossart as Hand of the King, but I really don't see any evidence of a gap between Chelsted and Rossart. Do you guys have any evidence of one?

Hmm... This is a cool catch, whatever it means (mistaken timeline by author or mistaken memory by Jaime). Do you have any quotes or insight that might reconcile this information and make sense of the timeline? Thanks!

Again, please forgive me if this is in the improper thread. I'm not certain where it should go. If anyone can reconcile this set of conflicting information, I'd like to hear it. Thanks!

[direpupy]

1 hour ago, TheSeason said:

 

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And we know Dany was born a full nine months after the Sack of King's Landing (which itself was a fortnight after Rhaegar's death on the Trident, with Rhaella fleeing with Viserys to Dragonstone a week after Rhaegar was killed as his army fled south to King's Landing for protection/to regroup). As I said in my post above, a pregnancy going overdue two weeks or a conception delayed a few days is in no way abnormal, but trying to weasel at least a full month into this timespan is extremely difficult. 

 

Again, please forgive me if this is in the improper thread. I'm not certain where it should go. If anyone can reconcile this set of conflicting information, I'd like to hear it. Thanks!

Daenerys I, Game

She had been born on Dragonstone nine moons after their flight, while a raging summer storm threatened to rip the island fastness apart. They said that storm was terrible. The Targaryen fleet was smashed while it lay at anchor, and huge stone blocks were ripped from the parapets and sent hurtling into the wild waters of the narrow sea. Her motherhad died birthing her, and for that her brother Viserys had never forgiven her.

Nine moons is not the same as nine months, a moon is four weeks while a month is four weeks and two or three days. Thus nine moons is only 36 weeks instead of the 39 that make up nine months. Also a pregnancy is actually 40 to 42 weeks so if Dany was born nine moons after the flight, Rhaella should already have been pregnant for a couple of weeks already. so the timeline not matching up is actually even more complicated then you thought.

Not helpful in solving your issue i know but is just wanted to give you a heads up that the situation is actually even more complex then you thought.

[Amris]

6 minutes ago, direpupy said:

Daenerys I, Game

She had been born on Dragonstone nine moons after their flight, while a raging summer storm threatened to rip the island fastness apart. They said that storm was terrible. The Targaryen fleet was smashed while it lay at anchor, and huge stone blocks were ripped from the parapets and sent hurtling into the wild waters of the narrow sea. Her motherhad died birthing her, and for that her brother Viserys had never forgiven her.

Nine moons is not the same as nine months, a moon is four weeks while a month is four weeks and two or three days. Thus nine moons is only 36 weeks instead of the 39 that make up nine months. Also a pregnancy is actually 40 to 42 weeks so if Dany was born nine moons after the flight, Rhaella should already have been pregnant for a couple of weeks already. so the timeline not matching up is actually even more complicated then you thought.

Not helpful in solving your issue i know but is just wanted to give you a heads up that the situation is actually even more complex then you thought.

How can we assume Dany's recollection of events is accurate to a day (or even to a week)? They are the recollections of a child who has heard it second hand from her brother who himself was only eight years old at the time. This leaves GRRM a lot of wiggle room.

That said: Even if we did assume Dany's memory is 100% accurate to the day the timeline works out:

For instance if the rape happened approximately two weeks before the battle of the trident then a couple of days pass (up to a week maybe) before Rhaella and Viserys are sent to dragonstone. So Rhaella would have been pregnant for about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks before she left for dragonstone. Another nine moons (or 36 weeks) means Dany was born about 39 weeks after conception. A little early actually but not impossibly so.

Or maybe the rape happened not two weeks but three weeks before the trident. Then Dany would have been born 40 weeks after conception or on time really.

The only thing that then does not fit is that Rossart according to Tyrion was only hand for a fortnight. It must have been at least a couple of days more than that. And why not? It's not like Tyrion was counting out days when he told that story.

[direpupy]

13 minutes ago, Amris said:

How can we assume Dany's recollection of events is accurate to a day (or even to a week)? They are the recollections of a child who has heard it second hand from her brother who himself was only eight years old at the time. This leaves GRRM a lot of wiggle room.

That said: Even if we did assume Dany's memory is 100% accurate to the day the timeline works out:

For instance if the rape happened approximately two weeks before the battle of the trident then a couple of days pass (up to a week maybe) before Rhaella and Viserys are sent to dragonstone. So Rhaella would have been pregnant for about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks before she left for dragonstone. Another nine moons (or 36 weeks) means Dany was born about 39 weeks after conception. A little early actually but not impossibly so.

Or maybe the rape happened not two weeks but three weeks before the trident. Then Dany would have been born 40 weeks after conception or on time really.

The only thing that then does not fit is that Rossart according to Tyrion was only hand for a fortnight. It must have been at least a couple of days more than that. And why not? It's not like Tyrion was counting out days when he told that story.

Actually since she was born on the day of that massive storm and the events of Roberts rebellion being well known, Dany can very easily check for herself if the story's are true. And she would have heard the story from Willem Darry not Visery's.

But really it was in response to the post by TheSeason above mine maybe you should read that if you want to know what the problem with the timeline is. My own post was meant as additional information for him/her.