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TyrionTLannister

Arya will become Queen

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There's a lot of evidence that Arya will become Queen of Westeros at the end, with Jon as King. A recent discussion with @The Fattest Leech has motivated me to make this topic. I feel this is a highly plausible endgame for ASOIAF that many choose to unfairly dismiss, so I thought I would remind people just how much evidence exists for this theory.

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That brought a bitter twist to Ned’s mouth. “Brandon. Yes. Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything. He was born to be a King’s Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me.” (AGOT Catelyn II)

Ned refers to himself as a father to queens, plural. Sansa was then-betrothed to the crown prince, Joffrey, but how exactly was Arya supposed to become a queen? Ned wouldn’t realistically say this; and when characters in ASOIAF say things that they normally wouldn’t say, it’s generally GRRM speaking through them, foreshadowing future events.

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Arya cocked her head to one side. “Can I be a king’s councillor and build castles and become the High Septon?”

“You,” Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, “will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon.”

Arya screwed up her face. “No,” she said, “that’s Sansa.” She folded up her right leg and resumed her balancing. Ned sighed and left her there. (AGOT Eddard V)

Once again, Ned makes the mistake of stating that Arya is a future queen, when his other daughter was the one betrothed to the crown prince. Ned and Arya’s exchange strongly parallels Cersei and Maggy the Frog’s exchange in AFFC. 

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“Three questions may you ask,” the crone said, once she’d had her drink. “You will not like my answers. Ask, or begone with you.”

Go, the dreaming queen thought, hold your tongue, and flee. But the girl did not have sense enough to be afraid.

“When will I wed the prince?” she asked.

“Never. You will wed the king.”

Beneath her golden curls, the girl’s face wrinkled up in puzzlement. (AFFC Cersei VIII)

Both Cersei and Arya ask three questions, both are told they will marry a king, and both don't quite understand and make faces. Maggy the Frog ended up being right about Cersei, and it seems that Ned will end up being right about Arya. I feel the parallels are too striking to simply be a coincidence. Credit to @DutchArya for this catch.

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Benjen Stark was a Sworn Brother. Jon would be a son to him, the child he would never have. And in time the boy would take the oath as well. He would father no sons who might someday contest with Catelyn’s own grandchildren for Winterfell. (AGOT Catelyn II)

This is ironic, because Jon’s sons will be Catelyn’s grandchildren. One of Jon's sons will inherit Winterfell as Catelyn feared, but not in the way she would have expected.

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“Go ahead, call me all the names you want,” Sansa said airily. “You won’t dare when I’m married to Joffrey. You’ll have to bow to me and call me Your Grace.” (AGOT Sansa III)

This is ironic as well, because Arya will one day hold the position Sansa so covets, and it’d be Sansa who’d have to bow to her sister and call her Your Grace.

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The girl smiled in a way that reminded Jon so much of his little sister that it almost broke his heart. “Let him be scared of me.” The snowflakes were melting on her cheeks, but her hair was wrapped in a swirl of lace that Satin had found somewhere, and the snow had begun to collect there, giving her a frosty crown. Her cheeks were flushed and red, and her eyes sparkled. (ADWD Jon X)

Alys is compared to Arya, then the snow gives her a frosty crown. This could foreshadow Jon Snow making Arya Queen by marrying her.

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Gendry was the closest thing to a man grown, but it was Willow shouting all the orders, as if she were a queen in her castle and the other children were no more than servants.

If she were highborn, command would come naturally to her, and deference to them. Brienne wondered whether Willow might be more than she appeared. The girl was too young and too plain to be Sansa Stark, but she was of the right age to be the younger sister, and even Lady Catelyn had said that Arya lacked her sister’s beauty. (AFFC Brienne VII)

Brienne compares Willow to a queen, then wonders if she is Arya. 

Arya's sword is called Needle, which could refer to her role in "sewing up" the realm as Queen after the Long Night.

Arya named her direwolf Nymeria, after the warrior queen. I strongly suspect that the names of the direwolves are indicative of their owners' ultimate fates. For example, Robb's direwolf was Grey Wind, which is symbolic of how meteoric his rise and fall were. Jon's direwolf is Ghost, which either points to his death and resurrection or to his longevity, if he rules as King for many years and lives to an old age. So it would make sense for the name of Arya's direwolf, Nymeria, to also be indicative of her ultimate fate, which is to be a queen.

You may be wondering where Daenerys fits into all this. After all, there's a lot of foreshadowing that Jon and Dany will marry and have a child. These theories don't have to be mutually exclusive. I agree that Jon and Dany will marry and have a son, but I think Dany is fated to die during the Long Night. After the Long Night, Jon will marry Arya and they will rule Westeros together as King and Queen. Recall that Ned tells Arya that her sons will be princes, not kings. So I think Jon and Arya will have children, one of whom will be the future Lord of Winterfell, but none of their children will become King after Jon, because Jon and Dany's son would be the firstborn and thus the rightful heir. 

This would mirror the situation at the beginning of the series. Jon and Arya would take on Ned and Catelyn's role, with Arya having to raise a child that isn't hers. Jon and Dany's son would be the outsider with different features and future King, and he would grow up alongside the future Lord of Winterfell.

Like his forebear Aegon the Conqueror, Jon will marry twice, first to Dany (fire) and then to Arya (ice). So Dany would be the Rhaenys in this arrangement and Arya would be the Visenya. Like Rhaenys, Dany will die relatively young, and bear a son who later becomes King. And Arya has a lot in common with Visenya. The last two letters of their names even match up:

Jon - Aegon

Daenerys - Rhaenys

Arya - Visenya

There are many parallels between Arya and Dany. They are both young noble girls who have been forced to flee to Essos following the deaths of their parents; they both seek to return home to avenge the fall of their House; they both empathize greatly with the weak and the downtrodden, and seek to protect and avenge them; they both suffer identity crises revolving around embracing their heritage; they both have a close bond with a burly knight with a burly animal sigil; and so on. There may be a reason for this.

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6 hours ago, TyrionTLannister said:

fter all, there's a lot of foreshadowing that Jon and Dany will marry and have a child

I don't know where you get those foreshadowings from.

6 hours ago, TyrionTLannister said:

just how much evidence exists for this theory.

Actually there are no as much evidence as you would like. One thing, for example, that you forget is how Arya herself renouncing her *fate* to marry a King.

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No,” she said, “that’s Sansa.” 

BTW Ned never said you will be a Queen, he said you will marry a King. 

Also there are also a lot of foreshadowings that Arya will die; 

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 When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.

 

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I'd probably like an ending with Jon and Arya together, assuming they aren't half siblings. I don't want Arya to be queen though. She needs to be free to do whatever she wants like her wolf.

If you're trying to take textual clues for your theory though I think her wolf's name is the strongest example.

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Thanks for the mention TTL, but just to be clear about my thoughts on this, I am not for this theory because I see an incredible amount of evidence that points elsewhere, which is still good for Arya. 

That said, I know the Arya superfans will be here shortly to add their line or two, and they can have at it because I know how this topic goes. Arya is a favorite of mine and I'm over the conversation where Arya "experts" claim everyone else is not a good reader because they don't see what they see. And all the "lols". 

Adding: the LOL's have arrived! Just like every other time.:lmao:

……

 

"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." 

---GB Shaw

 

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7 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

They are siblings. DNA doesn't matter, they are siblings.

I meant in the sense that their children are more likely to be born with six toes and such. Stereotypical (though I did go to school with a guy whose parents were cousins and he was born with six fingers but they removed one at birth), but that's a hard thing to not think of when considering people having kids.

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42 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Actually there are no as much evidence as you would like. One thing, for example, that you forget is how Arya herself renouncing her *fate* to marry a King.

Well, suppose she hadn't. Then people would pay more attention to the quote as a possible instance of foreshadowing. That would make it too obvious and would basically spell out the series' ending in the first book. 

50 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

BTW Ned never said you will be a Queen, he said you will marry a King. 

But he refers to Arya as a queen in his conversation with Catelyn.

54 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Also there are also a lot of foreshadowings that Arya will die; 

There is, but I've always taken it to be more of a warning that Arya will die if she doesn't give up her quest for vengeance. I think it would be too predictable for this child soldier who is so closely associated with death to just die.

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22 minutes ago, Praetor Xyn said:

I'd probably like an ending with Jon and Arya together, assuming they aren't half siblings. I don't want Arya to be queen though. She needs to be free to do whatever she wants like her wolf.

I agree that would be better for her, but GRRM doesn't really care what his characters want. In fact, he tends to give his characters the complete opposite. For example, Bran wanted to be a knight, but he was crippled after being thrown from a window. GRRM promised a bittersweet ending, and it would be bittersweet for someone who never wanted to be Queen to be basically forced into that position.

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1 minute ago, Praetor Xyn said:

I meant in the sense that their children are more likely to be born with six toes and such. Stereotypical (though I did go to school with a guy whose parents were cousins and he was born with six fingers but they removed one at birth), but that's a hard thing to not think of when considering people having kids.

I agree but we are talking about a book series were a dynasty was based at incest. In any case, Jon and Arya will always be siblings and they will not be like "We are not siblings? HIGH FIVE! Now we can [email protected]@k!".

3 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

Well, suppose she hadn't. Then people would pay more attention to the quote as a possible instance of foreshadowing. That would make it too obvious and would basically spell out the series' ending in the first book. 

Sure.

3 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

But he refers to Arya as a queen in his conversation with Catelyn.

There is more than one place in GRRTH, he never said Queens of Westeros.

4 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

There is, but I've always taken it to be more of a warning that Arya will die if she doesn't give up her quest for vengeance. I think it would be too predictable for this child soldier who is so closely associated with death to just die.

If it was any other yes it would had been predictable, but is about Arya a major PoV that would be original.

 

In any case Jon marrying Arya has much less foreshadowings than other of candidates for Jon's wife.

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Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Val.

I briefly discussed this with The Fattest Leech in the other thread. Val doesn't have as much to offer to Jon politically as Arya. And I don't think it would be appropriate from a storytelling perspective for a non-POV character introduced halfway through the series to become Queen of Westeros at the end. That said, I'm not ruling out a romantic relationship between Jon and Val.

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Just now, TyrionTLannister said:

I briefly discussed this with The Fattest Leech in the other thread. Val doesn't have as much to offer to Jon politically as Arya. And I don't think it would be appropriate from a storytelling perspective for a non-POV character introduced halfway through the series to become Queen of Westeros at the end. That said, I'm not ruling out a romantic relationship between Jon and Val.

There is a difference between what you think and what foreshadowings there are. 

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I think that too much weight gets placed on small details and lines. Absolutely some of it is foreshadowing, some of it is not. I haven't seen anything in Arya's story (her growth, her thoughts, etc) that point to being a queen part of her future. She is a ball of fury, vengeance and survival. Jon and Dany's arcs are about leadership. Sansa is learning several lessons, all of which would serve her in a political career. I don't see any of those things in Arya's arc. So while you can pick out a few lines here and there, I don't think that outweighs the story we are being told about her. I don't know what role she will have in the future, but the most important thing is going to be about identity for her. I think (hope) she embraces her Stark self again strongly. If she becomes a queen of something, somewhere, I see it as incidental, and frankly, not likely.

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36 minutes ago, TyrionTLannister said:

Well, suppose she hadn't.

Is that really the best defense that exist against this, very obvious, objection to this theory? I mean, Arya is a main character and has an own arc. And that arc has have nothing to do with queenship so far. So if anything is forshadowing, it should be Aryas line and not Neds? 

I feel that so-called Arya fans try to sell this end game for Arya, based on absolutely nothing, in order to give Jon a nice trophy wife who will sacrifice all her agency for him. And for once I actually feel sorry for Jon here. Can´t he get someone who he doesn´t see at his sister? Yuck! A little better I think even he deserve. 

As for me, I would prefer that Arya died rather than giving her this ending and I would hold GRRM for less of a writer since he then have decided to cut short Aryas story arc in favor of Jons. Its like Witcher 3 all over again, where I prefered 

Spoiler

the ending where Ciri dies rather than ascend to the Nilfguard throne, something it is very clear that Ciri does not want to do. 

 

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28 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

There are other threads about it. The latest one is; Val is Jon's true Queen. Part trois.

Interesting. GRRM is definitely up to something there. Though I don't how you can say there's more foreshadowing for a Jon-Val romance than a Jon-Arya romance. GRRM has clearly been setting up Jon and Arya from the beginning.

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I'm skeptical that it will be as Jon's wife, but I think there is a strong possibility that Arya will be Queen or Queen Regent of the North at the end.

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