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Heresy 196 and a look at the Wall


Black Crow

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On 3/22/2017 at 8:07 PM, Lady Dyanna said:

Well... Prophecy will bite your prick off every time... ;) 

I think that I'm still having a "duh" moment over this one. I need to go back and look, but I'm fairly certain that as @wolfmaid7, I believe, points out in her "R"+L=J essay there is a fair amount of symbolism present equating Jon with a horned lord or a green man. Actually, I think that @LmL has also found the same to be true in his research, only instead of equating Jon to Robert via the symbolism, he related some of it back to Rhaegar as a horned lord. Either way that you want to look at it the symbolism is there. 

This actually makes a lot of sense to me. :) 

This whole interpretation is just awesome! Have you by chance looked at the Jon chapter that is either right before or after this when he is locked up in his cell in the LC's tower and ends up fighting Othor, the wight? It seems to me that Jon escaping his cell to the tune of a creaking hinge, with the weirwood colored Ghost who has just finished gouging the wooden door by raking it with his claws is symbolic of some sort of escape. That whole passage drives me nuts because I'm certain there's something important hidden in it, but I can't figure out exactly what it is. Ugh. 

Just got back in and trying to answer questions.But i agree Jon as a continuation of the Horned god seems to evident.Thus he needs to have come from the stead of one that fulfils that.None more explicit than the crowned stag and king bastard maker himself...Bobby B.

As to the other,that entire situation has always struck me as odd.Especially when you consider Mormont's crow didn't rouse him,but only chose to make noise when Jon entered.It was there the entire time and its racket easily woke Mormont but not until after.

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On 4/13/2017 at 1:53 PM, wolfmaid7 said:

Just got back in and trying to answer questions.But i agree Jon as a continuation of the Horned god seems to evident.Thus he needs to have come from the stead of one that fulfils that.None more explicit than the crowned stag and king bastard maker himself...Bobby B.

Welcome back!  And :agree:

On 4/13/2017 at 1:53 PM, wolfmaid7 said:

As to the other,that entire situation has always struck me as odd.Especially when you consider Mormont's crow didn't rouse him,but only chose to make noise when Jon entered.It was there the entire time and its racket easily woke Mormont but not until after.

Hmm. I never thought about that part of it, but it is awfully intriguing if you think about it. Which makes me wonder.... Was it something that Martin just didn't think about? There's no real reason that was when Mormont was woken when he was, it just was when it was convenient? Or was it intentional? And if it was intentional... Was it due to some motivation of the crow or the entity that might be controlling it? Or was it set up that way to maintain a pattern in the storytelling? Does that make any sense?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I always found that rather odd and think it more on the part of the crow.Maybe a move to ensure Jon goes beyond the Wall.I mean what would have happened.Mormont might have been wighted.

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On 2017-04-13 at 1:53 PM, wolfmaid7 said:

Just got back in and trying to answer questions.But i agree Jon as a continuation of the Horned god seems to evident.Thus he needs to have come from the stead of one that fulfils that.None more explicit than the crowned stag and king bastard maker himself...Bobby B.

More specifically, the crowned stag limned in flame.  Mel has seen Jon limned in flame and so has Dany although she has never met him to reconize him - the great wolf and the man limned in flame.  

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5 minutes ago, LynnS said:

More specifically, the crowned stag limned in flame.  Mel has seen Jon limned in flame and so has Dany although she has never met him to reconize him - the great wolf and the man limned in flame.  

I say true dat...Sorry there my Cat Pepper was telling me she hates being ignored.

Black with some fury beneath.My take on MMD tenth ritual is a bit different and twofold.

It was to me a summoning representing the forces of nature.

The wolf of winter and the burning man.Life and death incarnate in those forms.

Also i've longed believed that there are elemental portals in Asoiaf whereby a "caster" can see through or work through.They serve as scrying tools.The flame being one of them.So its possible what Dany saw courtesy of MMD flames was Ghost and one of the wights in Mormont's room.

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35 minutes ago, wolfmaid7 said:

I say true dat...Sorry there my Cat Pepper was telling me she hates being ignored.

Black with some fury beneath.My take on MMD tenth ritual is a bit different and twofold.

It was to me a summoning representing the forces of nature.

The wolf of winter and the burning man.Life and death incarnate in those forms.

Also i've longed believed that there are elemental portals in Asoiaf whereby a "caster" can see through or work through.They serve as scrying tools.The flame being one of them.So its possible what Dany saw courtesy of MMD flames was Ghost and one of the wights in Mormont's room.

Yes, I agree with the elemental forces.  But also Dany sees other shadows along with the great wolf and the man limned in flame.

A side note on eye color since this is such an issue with Jon... dark grey eyes are slate colored - dark bluish-grey. :D

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