Bigger Badass currently: Arya or Jon?

[jontargaryan]

Jon Snow

- Defended Castle Black with a skeleton crew of less than 100 men against 100,000 wildings.

- Defeated a White Walker in single combat

- Rescued thousands of Wildings up north in Hardhome against a horde of wights

- Stabbed to death and revived the next day

- Charged against 1000 horses by himself in the Battle of the Bastards

- Retook Winterfell with only 2000 men with inferior equipment

 

 

Arya Stark

- Didn't back down when talking to Tywin Lannister

- Escaped Harrenhall using a Faceless Man

- Left the Hound to die with him begging on his knees for mercy

- Sailed to Bravos to train with the Faceless Man

- Trained in advanced combat techniques as well as deception

- Killed the Waif in single combat

- Assassinated Walder Frey using a disguise

[The Exiled Septa]

On 2/28/2017 at 4:36 AM, jontargaryan said:

- Stabbed to death and revived the next day

- Charged against 1000 horses by himself in the Battle of the Bastards

- Retook Winterfell with only 2000 men with inferior equipment

 

 

-Well, he didn't do anything. Melisadre is the badass one who managed to revive a man.

-Without trying to find a better strategy, or trying to gather more strength and support...... just going with the wind .

-Retook Winterfell with his sister and Littlefingers helps.He, his 2000 men and his inferior equipment would be rotting in the ground but he was saved at the last moment.

***Arya is the winner for me***

 

[Gaz0680]

On 28/02/2017 at 1:36 PM, jontargaryan said:

Jon Snow

- Defended Castle Black with a skeleton crew of less than 100 men against 100,000 wildings.

- Defeated a White Walker in single combat

- Rescued thousands of Wildings up north in Hardhome against a horde of wights

- Stabbed to death and revived the next day

- Charged against 1000 horses by himself in the Battle of the Bastards

- Retook Winterfell with only 2000 men with inferior equipment

First off he wasn't alone defending Castle Black and it was never against 100,000 men. Mande never sent his full force against them, only a very small portion (I believe it was more like 1000 men that attacked Castle Black in watchers on the wall). Also, he wasn't alone in leading that defence. Ser Alliser Thorne was almost as much responsible for that victory as Jon was. 

His revival had nothing to do with him and everything to do with Davos convincing Melissandre to try and her succeeding. That wasn't an accomplishment or example of badassery on Jon's part.

Retaking Winterfell - also this was not on Jon. Sansa and Littlefinger's timely arrival with the knights of the vale saved Jon and the wild longs from defeat. Credit here goes more to Sansa than Jon for having the sense to know it was a lost cause without more men and doing what she could to get them. Again, not an example of Jon's badassery.

Charged against 1000 horses - shows bravery yes, but he was never going to beat those horses, it was basically a suicide move, though yes, I will grant still somewhat badass.

Still, for me Arya wins this by a long shot. Her personality, attributes and deeds so far are WAY more badass than Jon's.

With Jon, you added things that werent even badass actions on his part.

With Arya, you missed a few badass things she has done. 

*Learning from and challenging the Hound repeatedly through her interactions with him, possessing rare courage for a small young girl, most of whom, as Sansa was, would be terrified of the Hound.

*Killing Rorge

*deliberately putting herself in danger and a one on situation with Meryn Trant in order to exact vengeance on him in a brutal, badass fashion.

*Standing up to Prince Joffrey when he threatened her friend

*Standing up to and putting Hot Pie and Lommy, who were originally just bullies, in their place (with some support from Gendry though she was doing fine on own).

 

[RhaenysBee]

On 2017. 02. 28. at 3:36 AM, jontargaryan said:

Jon Snow

- Defended Castle Black with a skeleton crew of less than 100 men against 100,000 wildings.

- Defeated a White Walker in single combat

- Rescued thousands of Wildings up north in Hardhome against a horde of wights

- Stabbed to death and revived the next day

- Charged against 1000 horses by himself in the Battle of the Bastards

- Retook Winterfell with only 2000 men with inferior equipment

 

 

Arya Stark

- Didn't back down when talking to Tywin Lannister

- Escaped Harrenhall using a Faceless Man

- Left the Hound to die with him begging on his knees for mercy

- Sailed to Bravos to train with the Faceless Man

- Trained in advanced combat techniques as well as deception

- Killed the Waif in single combat

- Assassinated Walder Frey using a disguise

Jon

He had a big ass icewall between them. 

So did Sam. 

And lost thousands of them too.

That would make Melisandre, Davos or even his friends badass. But not Jon. 

With backup and nothing to lose. He has been dead before and cared little for life at this point. 

The Knights of the Vale retook Winterfell. Without them, Jon would be on the top of the corpse mountain. 

Arya

Why would she have? Tywin was but fair and encouraging towards her. 

And so that credit kinda goes to the Faceless Man who actually did the killing and the arrangement. 

In fact the Hound was on his back after Brienne injured him. Arya just walked away and thought she was cool. 

Getting on a ship makes you badass? She had no idea what she was signing up for. 

That went so well that she openly walked around Braavos while fully aware that the House of B&W was after her and got herself stabbed in the belly three times. 

Check. 

Check. 

 

Still, I would hardly call either of them badass. 

[Gaz0680]

22 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

Why would she have? Tywin was but fair and encouraging towards her. 

Tywin was a monster. He was only " fair and encouraging" towards Arya because straight away she showed intelligence and courage, which he respected. She earned his respect fast. Most girls her age, or older, would have been shitting their pants. Sansa included. 

But when Tywin first saw her and pegged her as a girl dressed as a boy, then put her on the spot asking why, Arya didn't hesitate or quiver. Keeping her wits, she immediately responded "safer to travel my lord" and was made his cupbearer. 

As his cupbearer, she still spoke her mind and even questioned Tywin "Have you met many stonemasons my lord?". Tywin only gave Arya the time of day because of how she responded to him and showed her strength. If she was a meek mild little girl showing lots of fear, you really think Tywin would have taken her as his cupbearer or opened up and told her about How he taught Jaime to read, about his own father, legacy, etc?? Hell no.

Arya gained his respect and he enjoyed her independent mind and strength of will. So yes, for a girl her age, that was pretty badass.

 

[RhaenysBee]

46 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

Tywin was a monster. He was only " fair and encouraging" towards Arya because straight away she showed intelligence and courage, which he respected. She earned his respect fast. Most girls her age, or older, would have been shitting their pants. Sansa included. 

But when Tywin first saw her and pegged her as a girl dressed as a boy, then put her on the spot asking why, Arya didn't hesitate or quiver. Keeping her wits, she immediately responded "safer to travel my lord" and was made his cupbearer. 

As his cupbearer, she still spoke her mind and even questioned Tywin "Have you met many stonemasons my lord?". Tywin only gave Arya the time of day because of how she responded to him and showed her strength. If she was a meek mild little girl showing lots of fear, you really think Tywin would have taken her as his cupbearer or opened up and told her about How he taught Jaime to read, about his own father, legacy, etc?? Hell no.

Arya gained his respect and he enjoyed her independent mind and strength of will. So yes, for a girl her age, that was pretty badass.

 

Arya showed courage and maturity and intelligence, I don't question that. She spoke to Tywin in a way she would talk to her own father underlining how much she missed and craved a father figure. The scenes showed Tywin in a new humane light, proved that under the fearsome "villain" he is a regular person too with family memories, values, even compassion. The scenes probably told more about him than about Arya. In any case, while she was brave and in possession of natural wit, I still don't think her exchanges with Tywin are "badass". But then, what is badass?. It's kinda open to interpretation.

[Cas Stark]

Arya, without question.  If LF hadn't shown up to save his ass, Jon would be dead again.  He's not a badass but a dumbass.

[Gaz0680]

2 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

Arya showed courage and maturity and intelligence, I don't question that. She spoke to Tywin in a way she would talk to her own father underlining how much she missed and craved a father figure. The scenes showed Tywin in a new humane light, proved that under the fearsome "villain" he is a regular person too with family memories, values, even compassion. The scenes probably told more about him than about Arya. In any case, while she was brave and in possession of natural wit, I still don't think her exchanges with Tywin are "badass". But then, what is badass?. It's kinda open to interpretation.

Absolutely it is. How "badass" someone is, is completely subjective. There is no objective measurement of badassery. 

In my opinion, for a person her age, Arya is a total badass. 

The Hound, Tywin and Cersei are also badass to my mind. 

[snow is the man]

I am a huge jon snow fan but in terms of pure badassery arya smokes him. Arya is able to kill people and just walk away. Also she is just so twisted and awesome. Although her actor is awesome and plays a large part of it.

Jon's acomplishment on the wall was impressive but not like in the books. His attack on the boltons was stupid and done in a fit of rage.  Now hardhome was his complete badass scene in truth.

[KINGpanther]

KOTV did win the Battle of Winterfel but would they have even shown up if Jon and his army hadn't weakened and distracted Ramsey?

But yeh Arya hands down bigger badass.

 

[Drogonthedread]

On 2/28/2017 at 8:06 AM, jontargaryan said:

Jon Snow

- Defended Castle Black with a skeleton crew of less than 100 men against 100,000 wildings.

- Defeated a White Walker in single combat

- Rescued thousands of Wildings up north in Hardhome against a horde of wights

- Stabbed to death and revived the next day

- Charged against 1000 horses by himself in the Battle of the Bastards

- Retook Winterfell with only 2000 men with inferior equipment

Almost all of this is not accomplished by Jon ..and there is nothing badass about hard home either 

Jon's most badass scene remains the beheading of Janos slynt and when he says his watch is over and when he says he had done plenty wrong and stand beside the council of aemon alisor thorne and slynt in season4 episode 1

So I would say arya

[Lucius Lovejoy]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 5:12 AM, RhaenysB said:

Still, I would hardly call either of them badass. 

 

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 9:19 AM, Gaz0680 said:

How "badass" someone is, is completely subjective. There is no objective measurement of badassery. 

I'm with @RhaenysB on this one - I don't consider either one of them as "bad ass" but like @Gaz0680 says it is all subjective.  For me, killing someone, even if it is justified or out of vengeance, just isn't bad ass - it is still sad though sometimes necessary.  Jon and Arya are both courageous, and have done some bad ass things (for me Jon sticking up for Sam at the beginning of the series and Arya refusing to kill the actress in S6 count) but I don't consider them the most bad ass characters.  Davos, on the other hand, has stood up to Melisandre countless times despite knowing what she is capable of, saved Gendry, convinced Stannis to save the Night's Watch, learned to read at an advanced age to be a good hand and convinced the IB to back Stannis, and countless other acts.  That's badassedry in my books.

[Cas Stark]

Arya is pretty badass.  That scene where the Freys are talking about Rob and she plops down off the horse, goes up to them like a waif, drops her iron coin and then stabs the guy, and later tells the Hound she had stolen his knife....that is total badassery.  I wasn't a huge fan of the way the show did the Frey pies, but you can't argue that cutting up the Freys and baking them into pies and then slitting Walder Frey's throat was badass...I would have preferred a more badass speech...but still badass.  Her whole arc is about being a badass, why does Jaqen even pay attention to her or help her except she's a badass.  I am however admittedly biased as she is my favorite character and when and if the author kills her my books are going to be given away.

[Gaz0680]

7 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

 

I'm with @RhaenysB on this one - I don't consider either one of them as "bad ass" but like @Gaz0680 says it is all subjective.  For me, killing someone, even if it is justified or out of vengeance, just isn't bad ass - it is still sad though sometimes necessary.  Jon and Arya are both courageous, and have done some bad ass things (for me Jon sticking up for Sam at the beginning of the series and Arya refusing to kill the actress in S6 count) but I don't consider them the most bad ass characters.  Davos, on the other hand, has stood up to Melisandre countless times despite knowing what she is capable of, saved Gendry, convinced Stannis to save the Night's Watch, learned to read at an advanced age to be a good hand and convinced the IB to back Stannis, and countless other acts.  That's badassedry in my books.

See, I guess it depends on how you interpret the word "badass". 

The word is slang and doesn't even exist in formal language. You won't find it in an Oxford or Macquarie dictionary, for example. 

It is defined in multiple online for informal dictionaries, however.

One definition marked as North American (informal) is "a tough, uncompromising or intimidating person" - by that definition, most of the GoT cast is badass as most character meet one or more of those descriptions.

Urban dictionary defines badass as follows:

Quote

A badass isn't someone wears ripped leather jackets, a badass isn't someone who breaks stuff to look tough, and a badass isn't someone who fights for the fun of fighting. That's the definition of a poser. Being a badass is completely different.

Unspoken Rules of Being Badass: 
1. First rule of being a badass. A badass does not talk about being a badass. Period.

2. Second rule of being a badass, a badass does not try to be a badass or look tough. A badass simply is a badass.

3. A badass stays true to themselves, always. This means being themselves for themselves, and not being fake to impress others.

4. A badass does not give up. Badasses will always push themselves for the better, no matter how hard it gets.

5. A badass is not a jerk. A badass does not prey on the weak, and shows kindness in return to those who are kind.

6. A badass knows his/her limits. Don't be stupid, you're not Superman, you'll die if you jump off a building.

7. A badass does not make enemies or go looking for fights. They do not fights that aren't worth fighting either.

Any breaking of these rules is grounds revoking of the status of being a badass. If this happens, a badass must once again prove they are worthy of being badass by following the rules. A badass can only be determined by the opinions of others.

By this definition, Arya is definitely a badass. She meets all 7 of those criteria. The Hound is also a badass but doesn't quite meet all 7. He doesn't go picking fights, though he does end them.

Arya I think is about the only character in GoT that meets all 7 of these criteria. Other characters, like Tywin, who more people probably consider badass, actually fail several criteria. For one, he was a massive jerk..and not only to Tyrion. 

Examples of posers would be Hot Pie and Lommy when they first met Arya, acting all tough and trying to bully her, but Arya just stood her ground and put Hot Pie In his place.

 

[Error-504]

Arya??? Pul-lease!!! The number of people Arya has killed with any significance to date is 1 maybe two. And arya ran like a scared little b**** when confronted by the waith head on.  John killed more people in combat than Arya will in 1000 lifetimes. Hard home, Winterfell, The wall. Not to mention a white walker. 

Had John waited for re-enforcements (the vale) the battle would have been much different, and a good chance they lose. It would have been a long drawn out siege battle.

When Arya actually out battles some one with any significance in one on one combat, then we will talk. To date all her kills have been elements of surprise, not bad-assery. 

[Gaz0680]

7 hours ago, Short Claw said:

Arya??? Pul-lease!!! The number of people Arya has killed with any significance to date is 1 maybe two. And arya ran like a scared little b**** when confronted by the waith head on.  John killed more people in combat than Arya will in 1000 lifetimes. Hard home, Winterfell, The wall. Not to mention a white walker. 

Had John waited for re-enforcements (the vale) the battle would have been much different, and a good chance they lose. It would have been a long drawn out siege battle.

When Arya actually out battles some one with any significance in one on one combat, then we will talk. To date all her kills have been elements of surprise, not bad-assery. 

Bad-assery isn't about killing people. What you are referring to is being a good fighter/warrior, not badass.

Being a badass has to do with the individuals nature, attitude, personality and actions. Fighting has nothing to do with it.

Also, Arya didn't "run like a scared little bit*h" as you put it, she ran like any smart girl her age would do to survive a fight she knew she couldn't win when confronted by an older, stronger, more experienced opponent, especially when she (Arya) was unarmed and also wounded. If she tried to fight the waif in Lady Crane's place, she would have lost. Arya ran from a point of weakness like the survivor she is until she could put herself into a position of strength to make her stand. That in fact, was an example that supports her badassery as a character, not refutes it.

[Error-504]

5 hours ago, Gaz0680 said:

Bad-assery isn't about killing people. What you are referring to is being a good fighter/warrior, not badass.

Being a badass has to do with the individuals nature, attitude, personality and actions. Fighting has nothing to do with it.

Also, Arya didn't "run like a scared little bit*h" as you put it, she ran like any smart girl her age would do to survive a fight she knew she couldn't win when confronted by an older, stronger, more experienced opponent, especially when she (Arya) was unarmed and also wounded. If she tried to fight the waif in Lady Crane's place, she would have lost. Arya ran from a point of weakness like the survivor she is until she could put herself into a position of strength to make her stand. That in fact, was an example that supports her badassery as a character, not refutes it.

Badass's don't run from a fight, sorry. Sneaking up on someone in a disguise and stabbing them in the back is not bad ass. Makes for a good assassin, yes, bad ass no. The viper was a bad ass. Arya has accomplished nothing, save for a few meaningless kills. John has faced wights (arya would pee he little panties), killed a WW, beat the bejesus out of Ramsay, faced numerous opponents on the battle field, etc. 

This whole conversation is a joke. 

[KINGpanther]

Were looking at it wrong. Badass moments are conveyed through words rather thann action. In this regard Jon and Arya havent had that many moments whereas Tyrion had a slew of bad ass moments from season 1-4. My fav moment is Davos "the dead are coming" to Lmormont.

[Cas Stark]

23 minutes ago, KINGpanther said:

Were looking at it wrong. Badass moments are conveyed through words rather thann action. In this regard Jon and Arya havent had that many moments whereas Tyrion had a slew of bad ass moments from season 1-4. My fav moment is Davos "the dead are coming" to Lmormont.

I drink and I know things is not badass in my opinion.  Tyrion is the farthest thing from a badass by my definition.  Davos isn't much of a badass either.  He's a nice, loyal, direct and capable person....but not a badass.

[Cas Stark]

4 hours ago, Short Claw said:

Badass's don't run from a fight, sorry. Sneaking up on someone in a disguise and stabbing them in the back is not bad ass. Makes for a good assassin, yes, bad ass no. The viper was a bad ass. Arya has accomplished nothing, save for a few meaningless kills. John has faced wights (arya would pee he little panties), killed a WW, beat the bejesus out of Ramsay, faced numerous opponents on the battle field, etc. 

This whole conversation is a joke. 

The same Arya who stood toe to toe with Tywin Lannister and told him anyone can be killed?  You think she would be afraid of some zombies?  Arya has never run away from a fight in her life.