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Bakker XLVII: Eär-War - A Nomen of Onomatopoeic Omen


.H.

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11 hours ago, Triskan said:

Dude, this post was really good but I have to say would have been better if there was a "Only slightly less well-known is THIS!" included somewhere.  

Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Earwa" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against an Ikurei when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...

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2 hours ago, Rhom said:

Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Earwa" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against an Ikurei when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...

Inconceivable!

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29 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I just finished re-reading The Warrior-Prophet, and just like before, I still don't know what Kellhus did exactly when they removed him from the Circumfix. 

He pulled Serwa's heart out of his butt when his followers put the blanket on him. Then he reached "into" his chest and pulled it out. 

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8 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

So would it be like the Matrix sequels then, and this is really like the fifth apocalypse?

The survivor states his conclusion that 'this has all happened before'

I was wondering if it was Donnie Darko like, where the movie is the final iteration of a looping world where the events have all repeated multiple times before we see the movie.

Also the other day I found out 'apocalypse' in Greek means revelation of a great knowledge

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Eternal recurrence isn't what happened in the matrix, was it? The machines just destroyed the old human hide away and built a new one, with the human seeds being ignorant of this history. As you say, there are multiple circles on the map - that'd be more like the matrix resets than eternal recurrence.

Anyway, the books are written all in past tense (except for Mimara) as peeps have noticed (not me, I had to read about other people noticing that) - so 'this has all already happened'. Not sure the extent of that repeating - nor am I sure why Bakker released the maps with the rings on his blog. But the rings are not, apparently, being removed. It's not a full reset.

 

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"Also Remember the College of Luthymae?"

This is one of the most irritating sorts of spoilers, and most childish. You're either setting up a red herring or you are setting the readership on high alert for something that may have occurred out of the blue for them otherwise. In otherwords, you're changing the reading experience by dropping these and the yemaleti mountains sorts of tidbits. Please stop putting people on their guard, you're fucking with how we read it.

That said, this means either that Maithanet is indeed alive, or there is more to the story of Inrau.

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2 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

"Also Remember the College of Luthymae?"

This is one of the most irritating sorts of spoilers, and most childish. You're either setting up a red herring or you are setting the readership on high alert for something that may have occurred out of the blue for them otherwise. In otherwords, you're changing the reading experience by dropping these and the yemaleti mountains sorts of tidbits. Please stop putting people on their guard, you're fucking with how we read it.

That said, this means either that Maithanet is indeed alive, or there is more to the story of Inrau.

Fully agree about reading experiences. Can we put all things from BakkerFans in spoiler tags going forward. 

Loki, on substance, Inrau was my first thought. Also could be some anti-Zundunyaini movement led by these the College that out of the blue attacks Kel? I dunno. That would be out of the blue. 

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2 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

The impression that I got from that statement (and bear in mind I am neither a student of philosophy, nor anywhere near caught up on all the Bakker theories, so I may be way off) was more in keeping with Nietzsche's Doctrine of Eternal Recurrence, rather than the idea that there were previous Inchy landings in this timeline. "Earwa is a flat circle" and all that.

playing the silly and applying math. If Earwa is a flat circle/recurrance, there must be a way to track the iterations.

Presuming that EARth and EARwa are part of the same iteration cycle (thus the common three front letters), let us presume that AAAAA would be the first iteration and ZZZZZ would be the last iteration for a possible total number of iterations of 26^5

Earth is then the iteration 26^4*4+0+26^2*17+26*19+8

Earwa is then the iteration 26^4+0_26^2*17+26*22+1

Dropping common factors, Earth = 502 and Earwa = 573 for an inclusive distance between of the two cycles of 69 iterations.

which since this number would obviously be Bakker's personal42, such a numerical proof means we are obviously in true space and also explains the black semen, probably.

 

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51 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

playing the silly and applying math. If Earwa is a flat circle/recurrance, there must be a way to track the iterations.

Presuming that EARth and EARwa are part of the same iteration cycle (thus the common three front letters), let us presume that AAAAA would be the first iteration and ZZZZZ would be the last iteration for a possible total number of iterations of 26^5

Earth is then the iteration 26^4*4+0+26^2*17+26*19+8

Earwa is then the iteration 26^4+0_26^2*17+26*22+1

Dropping common factors, Earth = 502 and Earwa = 573 for an inclusive distance between of the two cycles of 69 iterations.

which since this number would obviously be Bakker's personal42, such a numerical proof means we are obviously in true space and also explains the black semen, probably.

 

::standing ovation::

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@Kalbear isn't going to like this, but I think that @Michael Seswatha Jordan is right in some way about love.

First, Koringhus, the stones, the crab handed boy, and love, the reason he rescues and keeps and nurtures the child. Ties in to zero somehow too, I think.

Then Kellhus, inexplicably returning to Momemn, as MSJ says ties into the "heart crash to ruin" stuff.

but the counter of course that Kellhus knew this was so but still doesn't make sense for him to return unless it's just a collapse of the probabilities enforced by the WLW requirements.

 

I think Kellhus is aware of zero, aware of the judging eye, but is choosing not to go the route of koringhus (possibly in order to save the world), and I think in knowledge of those things, he's aware he needs those vestigial emotions and connections and irrationalities. He needs to love Esmenet for the same reason that Leto II needs the outcomes of his genetic engineering program in GEoD. because if Love is the answer, Kellhus needs to be willing to sacrifice all for her, or it is all for naught. but it can't be rational self interest, because it isn't a rational thing. I think Kellhus knows he has to allow it, but he doesn't know how the pathways of his connection to love will manifest because those pathways are the sideways step of zero-made-one, the essence of connection, soul-to-soul connections that are invisible to the granary/starving sky render of the world but are the essence of the zero-universe. (perhaps this is even whey the no god is invisible to the gods--and why there is the semantic similarity to zero in the name no-god--he is invisible because like zero he is outside the render framework of the granary/starving sky world but unlike zero he encompasses the absence of soul-to-soul connections.

So that's a long winded way to say that Kellhus may very well know that Esmenet is the key but also know that he can't interrogate those pathways without destroying them in the process, so he has to let them be and improvise within the framework of love and it's impact on the soul.

So, one might ask, what prompted all this nonsense?

A minor little quote from the WHCB section of TGO that I was just going to drop in here with nothing but the comment, "problem solved, you're welcome"  but I felt like it needed a bigger explanation , and now everything I wrote seems silly and overly elaborate and projectionist.

But in any event, in spite of my silly ramblings, you all should take this following synopsis very seriously in light of Kellhus returning for Esmenet known in the context of the revelations from the Survivor storyline:

Quote

The mad adolescent immediately begins by asking the Holy Shriah whether he intends to murder their mother. Maithanet denies this, repeatedly, but Inrilatas’s questions morph, begin turning on ever more subtle observations. “Uncle Holy”, as the Imperial siblings refer to him, admits that he has always been concerned by the way their father has, over the years, allowed his concern for Esmenet to compromise the Shortest Path …

The way Kellhus has allowed love to cloud the Thousandfold Thought.

 

The entire climax of the famous Inrilitis conversation builds to is the revelation about Kellhus' love for Esmenet in connection to the larger fundamental philosophies of the series.

So, why does Kellhus come back for Esmenet? I don't really know, as the above babbling should prove, but I think Kellhus comes back for Esement because there fundamentally is not a story if he does not come back for Esmenet, that it is a crucial for the narrative to function that he come back for her.

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11 hours ago, Callan S. said:

Eternal recurrence isn't what happened in the matrix, was it? The machines just destroyed the old human hide away and built a new one, with the human seeds being ignorant of this history. As you say, there are multiple circles on the map - that'd be more like the matrix resets than eternal recurrence.

Anyway, the books are written all in past tense (except for Mimara) as peeps have noticed (not me, I had to read about other people noticing that) - so 'this has all already happened'. Not sure the extent of that repeating - nor am I sure why Bakker released the maps with the rings on his blog. But the rings are not, apparently, being removed. It's not a full reset.

 

Don't think the past tense of the books have anything to do with the plot, most epic fantasy books are written in past tense. What intrigues me is why Mim's chapters are written in the present tense.

11 hours ago, lokisnow said:

"Also Remember the College of Luthymae?"

This is one of the most irritating sorts of spoilers, and most childish. You're either setting up a red herring or you are setting the readership on high alert for something that may have occurred out of the blue for them otherwise. In otherwords, you're changing the reading experience by dropping these and the yemaleti mountains sorts of tidbits. Please stop putting people on their guard, you're fucking with how we read it.

That said, this means either that Maithanet is indeed alive, or there is more to the story of Inrau.

99% it is a red herring but I will put any further teasing in spoiler tags if you want.

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