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Good Guy Garlan

Random thought: What if the Horn of Joramun is a dragonbinder/hellhorn?

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So, a lot of theories seem to treat as a fact that the two types of magic horns (I'm not counting the kraken horn) have 2 different functions: the Horn of Joramun "wakes giants from the earth" and would tear the Wall down if blown, and the dragonbinder, as its name states, binds the will of dragons to the horn's master. 

But, those two functions aren't mutually exclusive: Someone with the power to control dragons could easily used said dragons to melt the Wall. 

We know there were more than one dragonbinder in Valyria: 

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The dragonlords of old sounded such horns, before the Doom devoured them. With this horn, ironmen, I can bind dragons to my will.

We also know the Free Folk routinely trade with people from across the Narrow Sea, even more so when Hardhome was a thriving trade spot/almost town. 

So what if Joramun got a dragonbinder this way, from trades from Essos?

We also know both the Horn of Joramun and dragonbinders are supposed to be quite big:

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"Did she? She burned that fine big horn, aye. A bloody sin, I call it. A thousand years old, that was. We found it in a giant's grave, and no man o' us had ever seen a horn so big. That must have been why Mance got the notion to tell you it were Joramun's. He wanted you crows to think he had it in his power to blow your bloody Wall down about your knees. But we never found the true horn, not for all our digging. If we had, every kneeler in your Seven Kingdoms would have chunks o' ice to cool his wine all summer."

The dragonbinder is also big, six feet long. Also, both the horn Melisandre burned and Euron's have glyphs/runes. 

I know what you're thinking: why the thing about waking giants from the earth? Well, for one thing it's been speculated that that's a metaphor for earthquakes or volcanic activities, which are closely related to dragons. There has to be some connection between dragons and the Doom, and possibly whatever happened in Hardhome as well. 

TL;DR: The Horn of Winter doesn't literally bring down the Wall, but allows people to use dragons to do just that, and Euron has that horn. 

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Joramun = dragonbinder has definitely come up before. If you dig around in the Mythical Astronomy discussions or listen to the podcasts you'll see the basis for the equivalency. Basically dragons = meteors/comets, which bring the Long Night-related disasters that are hinted at in the distant past of Planetos.

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Just now, cgrav said:

Joramun = dragonbinder has definitely come up before. If you dig around in the Mythical Astronomy discussions or listen to the podcasts you'll see the basis for the equivalency. Basically dragons = meteors/comets, which bring the Long Night-related disasters that are hinted at in the distant past of Planetos.

I'm sure I'm not breaking new ground but the search function and me don't get along.

Also, I just thought of how incredibly ironic it would be if the horn Mel burned was a fully functional dragonbinder. 

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1 minute ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

I'm sure I'm not breaking new ground but the search function and me don't get along.

Also, I just thought of how incredibly ironic it would be if the horn Mel burned was a fully functional dragonbinder. 

Shouldn't Mel be able to read Valyrian glyphs?

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16 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Shouldn't Mel be able to read Valyrian glyphs?

Perhaps, but maybe the glyphs were vague. Maybe Moqorro lied to Victarion about what it's written in Euron's horn.

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18 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

I'm sure I'm not breaking new ground but the search function and me don't get along.

Also, I just thought of how incredibly ironic it would be if the horn Mel burned was a fully functional dragonbinder. 

Oh I'm not putting the topic down or anything like that. If anything, I think the idea is under-explored. The fact that Sam's horn is kept close but only mentioned once in a while just screams Chekhov's Gun.

Euron's horn seems to be imbued with some sort of fire magic, but who knows if it really binds dragons. It could well be a "wrong grail" kind of thing, seeing what it did to the guy who blew it.

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I don't even think dragonbinder binds dragons. The Valyrians (not all but some of them) were capable of binding with dragons without a horn, because generations of Targaryens of Valyrian descent did so without any such horn. Why would they need a horn to do it?

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16 minutes ago, Praetor Xyn said:

I don't even think dragonbinder binds dragons. The Valyrians (not all but some of them) were capable of binding with dragons without a horn, because generations of Targaryens of Valyrian descent did so without any such horn. Why would they need a horn to do it?

The Targaryens in question already had dragons bound to their line. But...maybe the horns were an attempt at stealing another house's dragons, or claiming the dragons of a house that had gone extinct.

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50 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

The Targaryens in question already had dragons bound to their line. But...maybe the horns were an attempt at stealing another house's dragons, or claiming the dragons of a house that had gone extinct.

Based on how immediately after the horn was blown, everyone is swayed by Euron, then after the guy who blew it dies, they start dissenting, it seems a safer assumption that the horn binds people.

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If that's the case then it is at the wrong place.

But it is a wrong idea because the Horn of Winter is apparently a magical weapon to cause earthquakes (that's what 'waking the giants in the earth' means). Those, in turn, can then bring down the Wall. The Horn of Joramun was apparently blown in the past (else nobody would know what it can do) but apparently not in the vicinity of the Wall (or at a time when the Wall was still pretty small, more like fence).

Dragonbinder was blown in AFfC and did not cause an earthquake so it isn't the Horn of Joramun. Not to mention that this is a rather weird idea considering that the Valyrian dragonlords most certainly would not have reused some old wildling horn for their purposes. We know that they had multiple such horns to control their dragons anyway.

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9 hours ago, Praetor Xyn said:

Based on how immediately after the horn was blown, everyone is swayed by Euron, then after the guy who blew it dies, they start dissenting, it seems a safer assumption that the horn binds people.

That's an interesting possibility. But...what if it's like a Jedi thing and only works on the weak-minded? I can see that having Daenerys bound to obey him would essentially give Euron control of Drogon, but I'm not convinced it would work on her. Asha isn't swayed by the horn, nor is The Reader.

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1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

That's an interesting possibility. But...what if it's like a Jedi thing and only works on the weak-minded? I can see that having Daenerys bound to obey him would essentially give Euron control of Drogon, but I'm not convinced it would work on her. Asha isn't swayed by the horn, nor is The Reader.

This is probably correct assuming I'm right. I could see the Valyrians creating a magic horn to make slaves more pliable, and slaves are generally so beaten down a horn thwt depends on the target being weak-minded is likely to work on most of them.

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It was a terrible sound, a wail of pain and fury that seemed to burn the ears. Aeron Damphair covered his, and prayed for the Drowned God to raise a mighty wave and smash the horn to silence, yet still the shriek went on and on. It is the horn of hell, he wanted to scream, though no man would have heard him. The cheeks of the tattooed man were so puffed out they looked about to burst, and the muscles in his chest twitched in a way that it made it seem as if the bird were about to rip free of his flesh and take wing. And now the glyphs were burning brightly, every line and letter shimmering with white fire. On and on and on the sound went, echoing amongst the howling hills behind them and across the waters of Nagga's Cradle to ring against the mountains of Great Wyk, on and on and on until it filled the whole wet world.

I'm pretty sure we witnessed the horn being used right there in AFFC. And I'm betting it will be used to steal the Unsullied, not a dragon.

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On 3/13/2017 at 2:02 AM, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

It was a terrible sound, a wail of pain and fury that seemed to burn the ears. Aeron Damphair covered his, and prayed for the Drowned God to raise a mighty wave and smash the horn to silence, yet still the shriek went on and on. It is the horn of hell, he wanted to scream, though no man would have heard him. The cheeks of the tattooed man were so puffed out they looked about to burst, and the muscles in his chest twitched in a way that it made it seem as if the bird were about to rip free of his flesh and take wing. And now the glyphs were burning brightly, every line and letter shimmering with white fire. On and on and on the sound went, echoing amongst the howling hills behind them and across the waters of Nagga's Cradle to ring against the mountains of Great Wyk, on and on and on until it filled the whole wet world.

I'm pretty sure we witnessed the horn being used right there in AFFC. And I'm betting it will be used to steal the Unsullied, not a dragon.

That's an awesome possibility!

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11 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

That's an awesome possibility!

More specifically, I think it will be the resolution of Chekov's unsullied's un-named goddess. Quote from ADWD Dany VI:

Before midday a dozen fires were burning. Columns of greasy black smoke rose up to stain a merciless blue sky. Dany's riding clothes were stained and sooty as she stepped back from the pyres. "Worship," Grey Worm said, "this one and his brothers beg your leave to bathe in the salt sea when our work here is done, that we might be purified according to the laws of our great goddess."

The queen had not known that the eunuchs had a goddess of their own. "Who is this goddess? One of the gods of Ghis?"

Grey Worm looked troubled. "The goddess is called by many names. She is the Lady of Spears, the Bride of Battle, the Mother of Hosts, but her true name belongs only to these poor ones who have burned their manhoods upon her altar. We may not speak of her to others. This one begs your forgiveness."

So there is a secret goddess whose true name is only known to the Unsullied, and apparently her authority outranks Dany, which makes sense since Dany is not a goddess. And we are told that when Varys had his manhood burned on an altar, a voice called out from the fire. Whose voice was it? Is it the same goddess? And then we hear Dragonbinder, which is related to fire in that it's runes burned red hot and it burned the lungs of the guy using it. Now we are presented a situation where the Unsullied are out on the battlefield, and Dragonbinder is nearby about to be used. What if, when the Unsullied hear the horn, they perceive it to be the voice of their goddess commanding them? They are primed to follow her orders, whoever she is.

And it would be really fitting if Dany's former slave army was, in a certain sense, never really free at all. I won't be surprised if Victarion sails away with the Unsullied and possibly also Quentyn plus a dragon before Dany ever makes it back to Meereen (Quentyn is alive, and Victarion has a bunch of pork with him). And then Quentyn will somehow get the dragon to Aegon and end up siding against his own father in war. It will be great.

 

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