Jon was born a bastard and remains a bastard.

[The Twinslayer]

13 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

I agree with you that mischance or unconventional tactics change a lot, even so it is unlikely that 3 of the best fighters the realm knew lost that fight regardless of tactics. Jamie even said that ser Arthur could kill the current KG with his left hand while taking a piss with his right (that KG included the hound and ser loras), so it is hard to believe arguably the best sword the realm has seen and 2 of the next best fighters lost to those 7 average fighters. Regardless if you agree with me or not on that subject I dont thing the TOJ incident happened exactly like Neds fever dream, some sort of fight happened but i believe the dream is purpusley misguiding the readers and we should not take that dream as literal.  

One of the reasons Ned and his friends were able to overcome the 3KG is that Ned and his friends were mounted while Hightower, Dayne and Whent were on foot.  One or two of the KG probably died or at least were seriously injured from being trampled in the initial charge.  

[Damein Blackfyre true king]

8 minutes ago, The Twinslayer said:

One of the reasons Ned and his friends were able to overcome the 3KG is that Ned and his friends were mounted while Hightower, Dayne and Whent were on foot.  One or two of the KG probably died or at least were seriously injured from being trampled in the initial charge.  

Where did u get this info.  There is absolutely no proof that Ned and his vanguard fought on horseback at the tower. Nor do we have any info that dayne, whent, and Hightower didn't have horses to mount as needed.  The only slight evidence we have is that reed did something unhonorable to help sleigh dayne.  Other than that we have no evidence.

[Eilrach Dayne]

1 hour ago, Damein Blackfyre true king said:

Where did u get this info.  There is absolutely no proof that Ned and his vanguard fought on horseback at the tower. Nor do we have any info that dayne, whent, and Hightower didn't have horses to mount as needed.  The only slight evidence we have is that reed did something unhonorable to help sleigh dayne.  Other than that we have no evidence.

It is implied that the 7 rode to the tower of joy so it makes sense that they would have horses, also in ADWD Lady Barbrey Dustin, the widow of Lord William Dustin (one of Ned 6 companions), resents that Ned brought Willam's red stallion back, but not the remains of Willam himself. Damien you are also right, in the sense that the KG could and most likely had horses themselves. However, the fact that (ned and his companions) had horses does not mean they would win, I think the biggest mistake everyone is doing is assuming the fever dream Ned has is a literal representation of what happened that day instead of a what in fact it really is, a vague recollection of feelings mixed with actual events that Ned lived, all because of a fever. Think about all the dreams you have had, even if it is a dream about something that happend most likely the dream wont be 100% a clear recolection of events like a memory but a vague representation. Then consider that Ned had a fever and was also under the influence of milk of the poppy (because of his broken leg). Also think about this; 3 of the most capable fighters/comanders woulld leave their position of advantage (the tower itself) to fight against a greater number of foes outside on the field, why? The answer is they would not, inside the tower greater numbers would not count because they have to go up narrow corridors, they could easily get rid of them in there, why go meet a foe they probably saw coming miles away (again towers are strategic outposts that would give them the advantage to spot enemies from a far). This for me is just another hint that something is way off about the incident in the TOJ as we know so far. Ned took Lyannas remains back to Winterfell why not take the other bodies to their families as well? There are too many unanswerd questions, which Martin is doing on purpose because those events are of importance, just like the mystery surrounding the tragedy in Summerhall. 

[The Twinslayer]

1 hour ago, Damein Blackfyre true king said:

Where did u get this info.  There is absolutely no proof that Ned and his vanguard fought on horseback at the tower. Nor do we have any info that dayne, whent, and Hightower didn't have horses to mount as needed.  The only slight evidence we have is that reed did something unhonorable to help sleigh dayne.  Other than that we have no evidence.

It comes straight from Ned's dream.  "In his dream, his friends rode with him, as they had in life."  So, they ride up to the toj.  We even get a description of one of the horses.  "Lord Dustin on his great red stallion."  And they stay on the horses.  "In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist."  

Ned remembers that he had the numerical advantage.  "They were seven, facing three.  In the dream as it had been in life."  This is one of the things that makes the memory bitter for Ned.

The KG were on foot.  "Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, had a sad smile on his lips.  The hilt of the greatsword Dawn poked up over his right shoulder.  Ser Oswell Whent was on one knee, sharpening his blade on a whetstone."  And:  "Between them stood fierce old Ser Gerold Hightower, the White Bull, Lord Commander of the Kinsguard."

There is no mention of Ned and his men dismounting and no mention of the KGs mounting up. They just talk, and Arthur Dayne "donned his helm" and then "unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands."  The next thing that happens is that "they came together in a rush ...".  If the KG had mounted horses before the fight, it would have said that Arthur donned his helm, mounted his horse, and unsheathed Dawn.  

The last thing Ned says is this:  "No," Ned said with sadness in his voice.  "Now it ends."  If Ned dismounted, it would have been easy for GRRM to write:  "No," Ned said sadly as he dismounted.  "Now it ends."  But that isn't what happened.  

Ned's seven used their warhorses to ride down the three unmounted KG and the KG still managed to kill five of them.  That is quite impressive.  

[Jon's Queen Consort]

2 hours ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

I dont necesarily agree with the part of the story about the 3 kingsguard still alive and in disguise, I just dont believe Ned and company could beat them in a fight.

If Ned was with normal warriors I might had doubt it too. But he was with Howland, a man who wasn't a warrior but he was much more powerful in his own way.

2 hours ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

N+A= J and R+L= A. 

There are several reasons why both of them are not plausible. In N+A case its plain logic, why Ned didn't left Jon at Dorne where his life would had been so much easier is one of them.

Welcome by the way!

[Eilrach Dayne]

10 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

If Ned was with normal warriors I might had doubt it too. But he was with Howland, a man who wasn't a warrior but he was much more powerful in his own way.

There are several reasons why both of them are not plausible. In N+A case its plain logic, why Ned didn't left Jon at Dorne where his life would had been so much easier is one of them.

Welcome by the way!

Thanks for the discussion I enjoy sharing ideas it helps me get a better understanding of the story. Why is Howland so powerful according to you? He might have had poison darts or something like that, but he would never match any of the 3 KG in hand to hand combat (also it is hard to shoot darts at a fully armoured fighter coming to kill you. 

N+A is fully plausible, Jon went home with Ned a) because he was his son b)because Ashara took Aegon/young griff to hide. I dont know if you read my previous comments but I believe septa Lemure is Ashara in desguise. Asharas body was never found after her supposed suicide, Edric Dayne heir and Lord of Starfall is known as NED, why would they name him like that if Ned supposedly killed their sword of the morning and was the reason for Asharas suicide? Also Edric Dayne tells Arya Ned and Ashara loved each other. 

Also as i sateted before I think the biggest mistake everyone is doing is assuming the fever dream Ned has, under the influence of the milk of the poppy, is a 100% recollection of actual events. I think that something happened in TOJ but its not as straight forward as the fever dream. Also I dont believe Ned and the 6 companions stood a chance of outfighting those three regardless of numerical advantage. On top of this why would Ned fight them If he wanted to keep the baby safe as well? (if in fact that is the reason they fought or if there even was a fight in the first place?

[Eilrach Dayne]

36 minutes ago, The Twinslayer said:

It comes straight from Ned's dream.  "In his dream, his friends rode with him, as they had in life."  So, they ride up to the toj.  We even get a description of one of the horses.  "Lord Dustin on his great red stallion."  And they stay on the horses.  "In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist."  

Ned remembers that he had the numerical advantage.  "They were seven, facing three.  In the dream as it had been in life."  This is one of the things that makes the memory bitter for Ned.

The KG were on foot.  "Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, had a sad smile on his lips.  The hilt of the greatsword Dawn poked up over his right shoulder.  Ser Oswell Whent was on one knee, sharpening his blade on a whetstone."  And:  "Between them stood fierce old Ser Gerold Hightower, the White Bull, Lord Commander of the Kinsguard."

There is no mention of Ned and his men dismounting and no mention of the KGs mounting up. They just talk, and Arthur Dayne "donned his helm" and then "unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands."  The next thing that happens is that "they came together in a rush ...".  If the KG had mounted horses before the fight, it would have said that Arthur donned his helm, mounted his horse, and unsheathed Dawn.  

The last thing Ned says is this:  "No," Ned said with sadness in his voice.  "Now it ends."  If Ned dismounted, it would have been easy for GRRM to write:  "No," Ned said sadly as he dismounted.  "Now it ends."  But that isn't what happened.  

Ned's seven used their warhorses to ride down the three unmounted KG and the KG still managed to kill five of them.  That is quite impressive.  

Assuming the dream is an actual representation of the events that transpired in TOJ you might have a good argument. I just dont think that is the case, something definetley happened but I think we should not take the fever dream as actual representation of events. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

6 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

Why is Howland so powerful according to you?

Because he has magic.

6 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

N+A is fully plausible, Jon went home with Ned a) because he was his son b)because Ashara took Aegon/young griff to hide.

So Ned condemned his son to a terrible life because of what? He needed him close? And why Ashara condemned her son to a terrible life? To take care af a stranger?

6 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

Lemure is Ashara in desguise

I don't think that this is right.

6 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

Asharas body was never found after her supposed suicide

That happens for people who die in the sea.

6 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

Edric Dayne heir and Lord of Starfall is known as NED, why would they name him like that if Ned supposedly killed their sword of the morning and was the reason for Asharas suicide?

He wasn't named after Eddard, Ned is short for Edric. They are not the same. Also they should thank Ned for returning Dawn while everyone else would had kept it.

6 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

Also Edric Dayne tells Arya Ned and Ashara loved each other. 

That doesn't mean that she is alive and they had Jon. She can be dead and have a daughter.

 

[Eilrach Dayne]

14 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Because he has magic.

What makes you believe he "has" magic? I can accept that he might know certain cranogmen style fighting but we have no proof he uses magic.

So Ned condemned his son to a terrible life because of what?

Jon would have a terrible life either way, he would always be regarded as a bastard regardless of what story you choose to believe (if he is Rhaegar and Lyannas he is a bastard, if he is Ned and Asharas he is a bastard) Taking Jon as his son and giving him the life he had was the best thing he could do. Even if Jon was Ashara and Neds child and he stayed at Starfall or wherever he would be a bastard and it would be hard for Ashara to find a noble husband that accepted her child with another man as their own.

I don't think that this is right.

I cant prove Septa Lemure is Ashara but you cant prove she is not.

That happens for people who die in the sea.

Yes this might well be, but it also is a perfect way to fake a death

He wasn't named after Eddard, Ned is short for Edric. They are not the same. Also they should thank Ned for returning Dawn while everyone else would had kept it.

Well that is a convinient explanation for the nickname, but think about how Edric considers Ned Stark in high regard, I believe he tells Arya he wanted to go talk to Ned when he saw him in the tourney because he was his namesake or something similar. I will have to look this up again but im almost certain he talks to Arya about this when he is with the brotherhood without banners.

That doesn't mean that she is alive and they had Jon. She can be dead and have a daughter.

It does not mean she is alive and they had Jon you are right, but there is no proof she is dead. And most of the people who knew Ashara associate a love connection/afair or something similar with Ned at the tourney at Harenhall

Lady Ashara Dayne. It's an old tale, that one. I heard it once at Winterfell, when I was no older than you are now. I doubt there's any truth to it. But if there is, what of it? When Ned met this Dornish lady, his brother Brandon was still alive, and it was him betrothed to Lady Catelyn, so there's no stain on your father's honor. There's nought like a tourney to make the blood run hot, so maybe some words were whispered in a tent of a night, who can say? Words or kisses, maybe more, but where's the harm in that? Spring had come, or so they thought, and neither one of them was pledged.[4]

”

- Harwin to Arya Stark 

Sorry for being lazy but im sure this is accurate, i took it from wikipedia still. Just one of many examples of Ned + Ashara stuff.

Also sorry for the format I dont know how to make my responses like you did with the colors so I use bold letters on your answers

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Just now, Eilrach Dayne said:

Jon would have a terrible life either way, he would always be regarded as a bastard regardless of what story you choose to believe (if he is Rhaegar and Lyannas he is a bastard, if he is Ned and Asharas he is a bastard) Taking Jon as his son and giving him the life he had was the best thing he could do. Even if Jon was Ashara and Neds child and he stayed at Starfall or wherever he would be a bastard and it would be hard for Ashara to find a noble husband that accepted her child with another man as their own.

Not true. In Dorne Jon would have a much better life and if he was with Ashara in Essos no one would care if he was a bastard.

1 minute ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

I cant prove Septa Lemure is Ashara but you cant prove she is not.

One small but unique detail. Lemore is not purple eyed.

2 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

Yes this might well be, but it also is a perfect way to fake a death

Not true, since TWOIAF we have seen people just disappearing, even Ladies of Great Houses, with no need of a fake death.

3 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

Well that is a convinient explanation for the nickname, but think about how Edric considers Ned Stark in high regard, I believe he tells Arya he wanted to go talk to Ned when he saw him in the tourney because he was his namesake or something similar. I will have to look this up again but im almost certain he talks to Arya about this when he is with the brotherhood without banners.

He never said that he was named after Ned. As for wanting to meet him he had no reason why not. As I said before he was in Ned's debt for returning Dawn.

5 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

 And most of the people who knew Ashara associate a love connection/afair or something similar with Ned at the tourney at Harenhall

So? I do agree that Ned and Ashara had a relationship and I believe that she is one of his broken promises but that doesn't mean that Jon is the result of the affair.

[Eilrach Dayne]

3 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Not true. In Dorne Jon would have a much better life and if he was with Ashara in Essos no one would care if he was a bastard.

I dont think that a bastard has a better life in Dorne, why do you think so? Ashara had to leave Jon to Ned so she could take the infant Aegon, sorry i didnt explain that part to you, I wrote more about what I believe in other responses on this thread. I believe the Aegon/young griff is in fact Rhaegar and Lyannas. I hope that helps clarify why i think Ned had to take Jon, also Ned loved his child from his true love, sure he came to love catelyn as well but that was more a marriage out of duty and necesity not love. 

One small but unique detail. Lemore is not purple eyed.

Lemures eyes are never referenced, Tyrion did not comment on the colors of her eyes, this would have been too easy and give away martins vagueness regarding the subject. So we dont get confirmation that lemure eyes are purple but we dont get to know what color they are at all.

Not true, since TWOIAF we have seen people just disappearing, even Ladies of Great Houses, with no need of a fake death.

I have not read anything from the winds of winter, if there is any chapters on that please show me a link or something. Also people disappearing is ok, but the situation when Ashara disapeared was different than the times in current book. Also I dont think that takes away from the posibillity of Ashara faking her death. 

He never said that he was named after Ned. As for wanting to meet him he had no reason why not. As I said before he was in Ned's debt for returning Dawn.

I have to re read the dialogue, but even so Edric sees Ned as a great man he sounds as he even admires him and believes he was in love with his aunt. I just dont see how some one that supposedley brought ruin to your house can be regarded in such a light, even if he did the little gesture of bringing dawn back to starfall (which suposedley is the trigger behind Asharas aparent suicide) it just does not add up for me. 

So? I do agree that Ned and Ashara had a relationship and I believe that she is one of his broken promises but that doesn't mean that Jon is the result of the affair.

You are right, it does not mean Jon is the result of the affair but it certainly opens up the posibility for Jon being their child.

I was just saying that N+A= J is apossibility that should not be disregarded so easily. A lot of people in the forum almost entirely assume the fever dream is proof that R+L= J, i dont belive this to be true. That dream to me is not a literal representation of the events at TOJ, I thinnk MArtin does that a lot with the dreams in ASOIAF they contain certain truths mixed with other things to misdirect us, some profetic dreams are more truthful but Neds dream is one he has with a fever, and under the influence of milk of the poppy because of his broken leg. 

[Ralphis Baratheon]

If Jon was Ned's true born son and heir why did he let him join the Night's Watch? That's a pretty shitty thing to do to him and it is out of character for Ned. If Jon was Ned's true heir he would have planned to give him some small keep in the North and a minor lordship while he was still a boy at the very least. 

What irritates me is that the order of the green hand give these theories and pawn them off as "clarifications" to confuse people and make them think what they say is all but proven fact. Also they claim Catelyn Stark is a mass murderer.  At least Preston Jacobs says before all his videos that what he's saying is his theory and he's probably wrong about at least half the stuff he says.

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

26 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

I dont think that a bastard has a better life in Dorne, why do you think so? 

Because it's in the books.

26 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

Ashara had to leave Jon to Ned so she could take the infant Aegon, sorry i didnt explain that part to you, I wrote more about what I believe in other responses on this thread. I believe the Aegon/young griff is in fact Rhaegar and Lyannas. I hope that helps clarify why i think Ned had to take Jon, also Ned loved his child from his true love, sure he came to love catelyn as well but that was more a marriage out of duty and necesity not love. 

So according to you a mother abandoned her child to take care of a stranger's child?

26 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

Lemures eyes are never referenced, Tyrion did not comment on the colors of her eyes, this would have been too easy and give away martins vagueness regarding the subject. So we dont get confirmation that lemure eyes are purple but we dont get to know what color they are at all.

Ashara didn't just had pretty eyes, she had haunting eyes. For Tyrion not noticing them it would be impossible. She wasn't just pretty, she was stunning. Also Tyrion describes her as handsome which means that she was in her mid 40s when Ashara would had been in her 30s.

26 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

I have not read anything from the winds of winter, if there is any chapters on that please show me a link or something. Also people disappearing is ok, but the situation when Ashara disapeared was different than the times in current book. Also I dont think that takes away from the posibillity of Ashara faking her death. 

If the Lady of Casterly Rock, Rohanne, simply disappeared there is no reason why Ashara couldn't do it and she would need a fake suicide.

26 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

I have to re read the dialogue, but even so Edric sees Ned as a great man he sounds as he even admires him and believes he was in love with his aunt. I just dont see how some one that supposedley brought ruin to your house can be regarded in such a light, even if he did the little gesture of bringing dawn back to starfall (which suposedley is the trigger behind Asharas aparent suicide) it just does not add up for me. 

Brought ruin? Who ever said that?

26 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

You are right, it does not mean Jon is the result of the affair but it certainly opens up the posibility for Jon being their child.

I am sorry but imnsho there is no way that Jon is Ashara's son. If he was when he was conceived?

26 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

I was just saying that N+A= J is apossibility that should not be disregarded so easily. A lot of people in the forum almost entirely assume the fever dream is proof that R+L= J, i dont belive this to be true. That dream to me is not a literal representation of the events at TOJ, I thinnk MArtin does that a lot with the dreams in ASOIAF they contain certain truths mixed with other things to misdirect us, some profetic dreams are more truthful but Neds dream is one he has with a fever, and under the influence of milk of the poppy because of his broken leg. 

There are way more proofs about R+L=J than just a dream.

[Clegane'sPup]

As far as I am concerned Jon is Eddard’s bastard and until Mr. Martin gets off his hinny Jon will remain Eddard’s bastard. Theories or no.

Squeze me, I just had a fight with my lawn tractor. Gas was leaking out of the plastic tank which has rubber washers and non corrosive tubes. Fortunately I wasn’t smoking. Kinda puts a perspective on things.

The party line is that Jon Snow is the love child of Rheagar and Lyanna. Since there is no, nada, zero info novels that Rheagar and Lyanna snuck away to have a miraculous weddings somewhere like on the Isle of Faces or in front of a heart tree or consecrated by Septon of the Seven Jon Snow is the bastard born son of Eddard Stark.

Robb’s will can say whatever he wants it to say. King Robb. King Stannis. King whomajeggie. Jon Snow is a bastard until whoever sits their arse on the Iron Throne says he ain’t.

Unless of course there is anarchy in Westeros and then anyone can be whoever they wanna be.

[Eilrach Dayne]

6 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

If Jon was Ned's true born son and heir why did he let him join the Night's Watch? That's a pretty shitty thing to do to him and it is out of character for Ned. If Jon was Ned's true heir he would have planned to give him some small keep in the North and a minor lordship while he was still a boy at the very least. 

What irritates me is that the order of the green hand give these theories and pawn them off as "clarifications" to confuse people and make them think what they say is all but proven fact. Also they claim Catelyn Stark is a mass murderer.  At least Preston Jacobs says before all his videos that what he's saying is his theory and he's probably wrong about at least half the stuff he says.

 

I dont think that jon is necesarily Neds true born son, I just said that it could be true that Ned and Ashara are Jons parents, he could still be a bastard If he concieved Jon with Ashara before getting married then the war started and he had to marry Catelyn for political reasons. Even if Jon was the true born son because Ned married Ashara before the war started (which still could be true) he still needed to hide that fact for the good of his marriage with Catelyn and their family/political union. Even so, if he Jon was concieved out of wedlock  that stil makes him a bastard.

I dont claim all the theories of the order of the green hand are correct I just think they got the essence of N+A=J right. And of course every theory we talk about is speculation, I dont claim any one theory is correct beyond reasonable doubt. We will have to wait for confirmation as you say.

On the Catelyn thing, I did not watch all their videos on her, I dont believe she is a mass murdere but I do think she was a shity person, not because of order of the green hand videos, I thought that since AGOT. 

[Eilrach Dayne]

6 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

As far as I am concerned Jon is Eddard’s bastard and until Mr. Martin gets off his hinny Jon will remain Eddard’s bastard. Theories or no.

Squeze me, I just had a fight with my lawn tractor. Gas was leaking out of the plastic tank which has rubber washers and non corrosive tubes. Fortunately I wasn’t smoking. Kinda puts a perspective on things.

The party line is that Jon Snow is the love child of Rheagar and Lyanna. Since there is no, nada, zero info novels that Rheagar and Lyanna snuck away to have a miraculous weddings somewhere like on the Isle of Faces or in front of a heart tree or consecrated by Septon of the Seven Jon Snow is the bastard born son of Eddard Stark.

Robb’s will can say whatever he wants it to say. King Robb. King Stannis. King whomajeggie. Jon Snow is a bastard until whoever sits their arse on the Iron Throne says he ain’t.

Unless of course there is anarchy in Westeros and then anyone can be whoever they wanna be.

I agree with the bastard thing, until Martin confirms it. But I dont think it matters that much as other people do, Jon will maybe never find out and if he does he has no believable proof to do something about it and if given the opportunity I believe he would not even want to assume any type of kingship. Also im not convinced Jon is Rhaegar and Lyannas.

Sorry for your lawn tractor accident and im happy nothing really bad happened, cheers to that!

[Ygrain]

10 hours ago, Damein Blackfyre true king said:

Where did u get this info.  There is absolutely no proof that Ned and his vanguard fought on horseback at the tower. Nor do we have any info that dayne, whent, and Hightower didn't have horses to mount as needed.  The only slight evidence we have is that reed did something unhonorable to help sleigh dayne.  Other than that we have no evidence.

There is no evidence that HR did something dishonourable, there is no evidence to anything whatsoever. It can be speculated that he used the net to immobilize Dayne like Meera does, and there is an analogical use of whip in Barristan's PoV where his initial dismissal of such a weapon against a knight is overcome by seeing with his own eyes how lethal such tactics is. 

As for fighting on horseback, as Barristan says, a honourable man would dismount. Ned was a man of honour.

 

8 hours ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

 I think the biggest mistake everyone is doing is assuming the fever dream Ned has is a literal representation of what happened that day instead of a what in fact it really is, a vague recollection of feelings mixed with actual events that Ned lived, all because of a fever. Think about all the dreams you have had, even if it is a dream about something that happend most likely the dream wont be 100% a clear recolection of events like a memory but a vague representation. Then consider that Ned had a fever and was also under the influence of milk of the poppy (because of his broken leg).

Not this again. It's an old dream, i.e. Ned had had it before. It's definitely not literal but its elements are true and making sense, or else Ned wouldn't elaborate on the outcome after he woke up (and he woke up perfectly lucid, by the way, so neither the drug nor the fever affected him that much). He even states (twice) that the setting is as it had been in life, namely that part "seven against three". Only he and HR survived, he built eight cairns. Facts fit.

 

8 hours ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

Also think about this; 3 of the most capable fighters/comanders woulld leave their position of advantage (the tower itself) to fight against a greater number of foes outside on the field, why?

Not to let any of them get away and bring reinforcements and reveal their location.

8 hours ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

Ned took Lyannas remains back to Winterfell why not take the other bodies to their families as well? There are too many unanswerd questions, which Martin is doing on purpose because those events are of importance, just like the mystery surrounding the tragedy in Summerhall. 

Try to think about the logistics of transporting eight grown males in a hot climate. One body can be cremated or preserved somehow, but not so many of them.

7 hours ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

 Edric Dayne heir and Lord of Starfall is known as NED, why would they name him like that if Ned supposedly killed their sword of the morning and was the reason for Asharas suicide? 

All Ed- names can be shortened as Ned. Besides, Ned went out of his way to return their ancestral blade which he could have kept as spoils of war, that is a huge deal, and even though he caused them grief by killing Arthur, he earned immense respect by that.

7 hours ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

On top of this why would Ned fight them If he wanted to keep the baby safe as well? (if in fact that is the reason they fought or if there even was a fight in the first place?

Because the codes of honour demanded that he revealed the existence of Rhaegar's son to Robert, which would put Jon in mortal danger, and even if he could be swayed himself, there were six more men who might have talked. Plus, with the whole possible legitimity issue, it wouldn't be just the life of a baby but the life of their king, and they are KG. They can't take such chances.

7 hours ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

it would be hard for Ashara to find a noble husband that accepted her child with another man as their own.

 

She would be unacceptable anyway because her pregnancy was not kept secret. Plus, her baby could have been sent away to foster with some vassals.

 

7 hours ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

 

It does not mean she is alive and they had Jon you are right, but there is no proof she is dead. And most of the people who knew Ashara associate a love connection/afair or something similar with Ned at the tourney at Harenhall

Lady Ashara Dayne. It's an old tale, that one. I heard it once at Winterfell, when I was no older than you are now. I doubt there's any truth to it. But if there is, what of it? When Ned met this Dornish lady, his brother Brandon was still alive, and it was him betrothed to Lady Catelyn, so there's no stain on your father's honor. There's nought like a tourney to make the blood run hot, so maybe some words were whispered in a tent of a night, who can say? Words or kisses, maybe more, but where's the harm in that? Spring had come, or so they thought, and neither one of them was pledged.[4]

”

- Harwin to Arya Stark 

Sorry for being lazy but im sure this is accurate, i took it from wikipedia still. Just one of many examples of Ned + Ashara stuff.

I suggest that you go and search the books on your own for all the clues, don't just rely on what someone said in the videos because they are cherrypicking there. For one, in this very quote, you have Harwin doubting the truth of the story, and while the young Ned talks about a N+A romance, he says that Jon was fathered on Wylla. And what name does Ned give his BFF Robert? Wylla. Why does he lie to his BFF and king (and it is treason to lie to the king, mind you), when everyone and their mother are gossiping about N+A? Then, in Sansa I, we have a rumour circulating around Winterfell that Jon's mother was commonborn. Okay, they are forbidden to talk about Ashara, but why come up with this one at all?

BTW, have you noticed that in his PoVs, Ned never, ever, has a single thought that could be interpreted as a hint at Ashara? Even that brothel scene which has him think of Jon, brings up only Lyanna (and Rhaegar), not Ashara.

[Eilrach Dayne]

6 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Because it's in the books.

you mean the Sand snakes? I believe that is more do to Oberyn than Dornish culture, like Eddard he took in his bastard daughters and gave them a better life than what they would normaly have. I dont think Dorne in general is more agreable towards bastards, thats why they still call them Sand and they dont get to be heirs to family names, castles, swords ect.

So according to you a mother abandoned her child to take care of a stranger's child?

Not a strangers child, Neds nephew (the man i believe she loved). I dont see it as abandoning her child since she knew ned would take care of him. Still it was probably a really hard choice.

Ashara didn't just had pretty eyes, she had haunting eyes. For Tyrion not noticing them it would be impossible. She wasn't just pretty, she was stunning. Also Tyrion describes her as handsome which means that she was in her mid 40s when Ashara would had been in her 30s.

Yes she did, but tyrion almost never notices peoples eyes only the ones of people that put his life in danger. Handsome is another word for beautiful, he was clearly attracted to her and made sexual jokes about her. He notices how beautiful she must have been once and that she is still really attractive. Martin is probably making this interaction purposley deceving as well. Tyrion describing her as handsome does not place her in her mid 40s.

If the Lady of Casterly Rock, Rohanne, simply disappeared there is no reason why Ashara couldn't do it and she would need a fake suicide.

I dont see how one random disappearance makes it ok for Ashara to disapear, I just said that the whole idea about her suicide is weird, and the manner of her disaperance raises questions. So we should keep the posibility of her being alive or at least living beyond the supposed suicide.

Brought ruin? Who ever said that?

Well if Ned killed the most decorated member of the family (Arthur Dayne), was part of the revolution against the House to which the Dayne family was banner to and loyal to the crown with deep ties, and then subsequently (supposedley because of his actions of killing the brother) the sister commits suicide, I just think it is logical to assume that the Dayne house would have little love for Ned and the starks.

I am sorry but imnsho there is no way that Jon is Ashara's son. If he was when he was conceived?

Probablt at the tournament at harenhall or around that period before Brandon Stark went south to marry Catelyn before he found out about lyanna. I think it is very possible in my humble opinion. Im not saying im outright right, im just saying we should not disregard the possibility completely.

There are way more proofs about R+L=J than just a dream.

Can you highlight some of the proof beyond the fever dream? I feel the whole R+L=J theory is based upon that vague fever dream, which we should not take as a factual account of events.

 

[Ygrain]

29 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

Probablt at the tournament at harenhall or around that period before Brandon Stark went south to marry Catelyn before he found out about lyanna. I think it is very possible in my humble opinion. Im not saying im outright right, im just saying we should not disregard the possibility completely.

There is a SSM (So Spake Martin quotes) you probably don't know about, in response to a fan who was trying to figure out the timelines and asked GRRM if his estimate of Jon being born about a year before Dany was correct. GRRM responded that the timelines are a PITA but that Jon was born about 8-9 months before Dany. Dany was born 9 months after Rhaella's flight to Dragonstone, i.e. 9 months after the Sack which closely followed. That places Jon's birth approximately within a month since the Sack. The Rebellion lasted for about a year, i.e. Jon was conceived a couple of months into its start, long after the tourney.

 

29 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said:

Can you highlight some of the proof beyond the fever dream? I feel the whole R+L=J theory is based upon that vague fever dream, which we should not take as a factual account of events.

No, it is definitely not. There are other important elements, such as the haunting promiseS and the price Ned paid to keem them (burying Lyanna at Winterfell was apparently one of them but there is no price nor any reason why it should keep haunting Ned), secrets that are best kept hidden and are too dangerous to share even with those one loves and trusts (we don't know about any secret that Ned is harboring except the identity of Jon's mother), Ned referring to Jon as "my blood" instead of "my son" when he gets angry with Cat's enquiring, the whole issue of Ned being too honourable to have sex outside marriage (not to mention with a highborn girl and not marrying her) and not telling Jon what he is entitled to know, all that emphasy on Lyanna and blue roses which tie her to Rhaegar... The dream is just one element, revealing the location of Lyanna's death and tying to a previous memory of her death in a room that smelled of blood and roses where she made Ned promise.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that bastards are treated better in Dorne then they are in any other Kingdom. Dorne considers bastard born of love rather then lust. Oberyn Martell has a bastard squire, how many great lords of Westeros would let a unrelated bastard be their squire? The heir to Dorne Princess Arianne Martell had sex at a very early age and has slept with bastards. Dorne is far less prude then the rest of the realm and that's why the rest of the Kingdoms tend to hold them in a lower regard.