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Lyanna Stark: A Gift from Old Gods

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20 hours ago, SFDanny said:

Since when is a "bed of blood" a phrase used to describe menstruation? Childbirth, possibly, but menstruation, no.

That night Sansa dreamed of the riot again. The mob surged around her, shrieking, a maddened beast with a thousand faces. Everywhere she turned she saw faces twisted into monstrous inhuman masks. She wept and told them she had never done them hurt, yet they dragged her from her horse all the same. "No," she cried, "no, please, don't, don't," but no one paid her any heed. She shouted for Ser Dontos, for her brothers, for her dead father and her dead wolf, for gallant Ser Loras who had given her a red rose once, but none of them came. She called for the heroes from the songs, for Florian and Ser Ryam Redwyne and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, but no one heard. Women swarmed over her like weasels, pinching her legs and kicking her in the belly, and someone hit her in the face and she felt her teeth shatter. Then she saw the bright glimmer of steel. The knife plunged into her belly and tore and tore and tore, until there was nothing left of her down there but shiny wet ribbons.

When she woke, the pale light of morning was slanting through her window, yet she felt as sick and achy as if she had not slept at all. There was something sticky on her thighs. When she threw back the blanket and saw the blood, all she could think was that her dream had somehow come true. She remembered the knives inside her, twisting and ripping. She squirmed away in horror, kicking at the sheets and falling to the floor, breathing raggedly, naked, bloodied, and afraid.

But as she crouched there, on her hands and knees, understanding came. "No, please," Sansa whimpered, "please, no." She didn't want this happening to her, not now, not here, not now, not now, not now, not now.

Madness took hold of her. Pulling herself up by the bedpost, she went to the basin and washed between her legs, scrubbing away all the stickiness. By the time she was done, the water was pink with blood. When her maidservants saw it they would know. Then she remembered the bedclothes. She rushed back to the bed and stared in horror at the dark red stain and the tale it told. All she could think was that she had to get rid of it, or else they'd see. She couldn't let them see, or they'd marry her to Joffrey and make her lay with him.

Snatching up her knife, Sansa hacked at the sheet, cutting out the stain. If they ask me about the hole, what will I say? Tears ran down her face. She pulled the torn sheet from the bed, and the stained blanket as well. I'll have to burn them. She balled up the evidence, stuffed it in the fireplace, drenched it in oil from her bedside lamp, and lit it afire. Then she realized that the blood had soaked through the sheet into the featherbed, so she bundled that up as well, but it was big and cumbersome, hard to move. Sansa could get only half of it into the fire. She was on her knees, struggling to shove the mattress into the flames as thick grey smoke eddied around her and filled the room, when the door burst open and she heard her maid gasp.

In the end it took three of them to pull her away. And it was all for nothing. The bedclothes were burnt, but by the time they carried her off her thighs were bloody again. It was as if her own body had betrayed her to Joffrey, unfurling a banner of Lannister crimson for all the world to see.

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8 hours ago, Voice said:

That night Sansa dreamed of the riot again....

I'm aware of the scene, but again I note the absence of the phrase "bed of blood" to be used in this scene. The phrase is associated with childbirth, not menstruation. Not even the first menstruation. You speculate how Lyanna's first menstruation may have happened in the Year of the False Spring, but that is later than Sansa's experience. Not that it is impossible by any means, but is there something other than speculation that makes you think this is the case? If we are to speculate how Lyanna might have a special connection with the Old Gods, and something in her life broke open old barriers of magic, don't you think it makes more sense to suggest this might have happened during childbirth? A childbirth in which she dies giving birth to her only child? Only death can pay for life - and the rebirth of magical creatures lost to the world. If I remember correctly.

Edited by SFDanny

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On 4/5/2017 at 1:15 PM, ravenous reader said:

 

I don't think the archetypal duel between Ned and Arthur, nor the putative 'C-section' which birthed Jon, occurred at Starfall, as you've suggested, since the men's and woman's respective 'battlefields' belong together. 

And it's stated quite unambiguously in the following quote that the duel and sequelae leaving a bitter taste in Ned's mouth occurred at the Tower of Joy, from which I'm inferring -- admittedly, based on my predilection for symmetry (just different symmetries to the ones you prefer sometimes :)) -- that Jon also had to be born at the same place, therefore TOJ:

Interestingly, in the latter pregnancy (Dany's), GRRM also toys with the suggestion of a potential C-section.  Could this be a hint as to the circumstances surrounding the former pregnancy (Lyanna's)?

When faced with the choice between her brother and herself -- Dany chose her brother's death.  In fact, I think she's responsible for the 'treason for blood' in her own prophecy -- with the blood of her brother Viserys, her unborn son Rhaego, and her husband Drogo 'blood of my blood' arguably on her hands (see Voice, unlike you, I'm not afraid to say something unpopular in less-than-coy terms! ;) ).

Then at what should have been the delivery of her son -- once again self-preservation wins the day.  Here again we have a curious C-section motif:

 

Ravenous,

 I have been meaning to add this here for a long time, but my brain's memory department needs an upgrade. Anyway, this awkward discussion between Lancel and Jaime always stood out to me, and now I think I know why? Possibly another c-section motif, or maybe I am stretching it too far??? The name Lancel  sounds like a feminine version of the more manly "lance". This is in keeping with Lancel's character description as well. I am sure you can get the possible metaphor here ;)

A Feast for Crows - Jaime IV

". . . lay with my sweet sister?" Say it. Say it!
"Never spilled my seed in . . . in her . . ."
". . . cunt?" suggested Jaime.
". . . womb," Lancel finished. "It is not treason unless you finish inside. I gave her comfort, after the king died. You were a captive, your father was in the field, and your brother . . . she was afraid of him, and with good reason. He made me betray her."
"Did he?" Lancel and Ser Osmund and how many more? Was the part about Moon Boy just a gibe? "Did you force her?"
"No! I loved her. I wanted to protect her."
You wanted to be me. His phantom fingers itched. The day his sister had come to White Sword Tower to beg him to renounce his vows, she had laughed after he refused her and boasted of having lied to him a thousand times. Jaime had taken that for a clumsy attempt to hurt him as he'd hurt her. It may have been the only true thing that she ever said to me."Do not think ill of the queen," Lancel pleaded. "All flesh is weak, Jaime. No harm came of our sin. No . . . no bastard."
"No. Bastards are seldom made upon the belly." He wondered what his cousin would say if he were to confess his own sins, the three treasons Cersei had named Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella.
"I was angry with Her Grace after the battle, but the High Septon said I must forgive her."
 
Bastards are seldom made upon the belly, but maybe kings are?
By the way, I always thought it was supremely odd that sex with the queen was not treason unless you finish inside.

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2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Ravenous,

 I have been meaning to add this here for a long time, but my brain's memory department needs an upgrade. Anyway, this awkward discussion between Lancel and Jaime always stood out to me, and now I think I know why? Possibly another c-section motif, or maybe I am stretching it too far??? The name Lancel  sounds like a feminine version of the more manly "lance". This is in keeping with Lancel's character description as well. I am sure you can get the possible metaphor here ;)

A Feast for Crows - Jaime IV

". . . lay with my sweet sister?" Say it. Say it!
"Never spilled my seed in . . . in her . . ."
". . . cunt?" suggested Jaime.
". . . womb," Lancel finished. "It is not treason unless you finish inside. I gave her comfort, after the king died. You were a captive, your father was in the field, and your brother . . . she was afraid of him, and with good reason. He made me betray her."
"Did he?" Lancel and Ser Osmund and how many more? Was the part about Moon Boy just a gibe? "Did you force her?"
"No! I loved her. I wanted to protect her."
You wanted to be me. His phantom fingers itched. The day his sister had come to White Sword Tower to beg him to renounce his vows, she had laughed after he refused her and boasted of having lied to him a thousand times. Jaime had taken that for a clumsy attempt to hurt him as he'd hurt her. It may have been the only true thing that she ever said to me."Do not think ill of the queen," Lancel pleaded. "All flesh is weak, Jaime. No harm came of our sin. No . . . no bastard."
"No. Bastards are seldom made upon the belly." He wondered what his cousin would say if he were to confess his own sins, the three treasons Cersei had named Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella.
"I was angry with Her Grace after the battle, but the High Septon said I must forgive her."
 
Bastards are seldom made upon the belly, but maybe kings are?
By the way, I always thought it was supremely odd that sex with the queen was not treason unless you finish inside.

Hi Leech :)  

On the one hand, I agree it's odd that sex without 'finishing inside' wouldn't be counted as treason -- since would one really trust ones rival (especially the hapless Lancel of less-than-surgical acuity) to 'pull out' in time; and therefore as a man could one really be sure (especially in a vexatious medieval age sans reliable paternity tests) that the ensuing offspring in which one was investing were really ones own legacy and not a worthless investment, from a purely genetic perspective (I don't want to get into an argument here about the rewards of adoption)?  On the other hand, sex that does not result in children might as well never have happened (again from that purely genetic endowment viewpoint); whereas children ensuing from an illicit encounter, however, are very definitely treason made flesh -- so maybe Lancel has a point (pun fully unintended, of course)!

I'm not sure where you're getting the C-section vibe here!  Perhaps you could elaborate?

'Lancel' reminds me of 'lance' = (to) prick; and 'lancet' = scalpel; so I suppose there are both reproductive and surgical associations to be mined, in the vein of Voice's notion of how in some unfortunate circumstances a woman's first 'bloody-bladed' experience (= losing her maidenhood) might also directly lead to and moreover embody her last (= fatal C-section).

The sentence 'Bastards are seldom made upon the belly' sure is peculiar.  I'm not sure what to make of it, beyond it's obvious meaning employed by Lancel in his own exculpatory defense.  Are you suggesting it might be some veiled reference to how if someone is delivered via C-section -- i.e. literally 'upon the belly' -- instead of vaginally; that somehow that infant might escape the taint of bastardy on a technicality?  Apart from being misogynistic, in its suggestion that the 'taint' is carried by the treacherous passage of the vagina; that would seem to be stretching the limits of semantic credibility!

'Spilling the seed' anywhere but the womb might also be interpreted as a kind of 'abortive' gesture -- the 'no harm done' which Lancel expresses -- whereby the lives of the unborn bastards are nullified.  It reminds me of that passage in which Cersei fantasizes about 'eating Robert's heirs' (in somewhat 'rat king' style), curiously juxtaposed with an obvious C-section motif towards the end of the passage:

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Cersei VII

"Do what you will." Taena's hair was as black as Robert's, even down between her legs, and when Cersei touched her there she found her hair all sopping wet, where Robert's had been coarse and dry. "Please," the Myrish woman said, "go on, my queen. Do as you will with me. I'm yours."

But it was no good. She could not feel it, whatever Robert felt on the nights he took her. There was no pleasure in it, not for her. For Taena, yes. Her nipples were two black diamonds, her sex slick and steamy. Robert would have loved you, for an hour. The queen slid a finger into that Myrish swamp, then another, moving them in and out, but once he spent himself inside you, he would have been hard-pressed to recall your name.

She wanted to see if it would be as easy with a woman as it had always been with Robert. Ten thousand of your children perished in my palm, Your Grace, she thought, slipping a third finger into Myr. Whilst you snored, I would lick your sons off my face and fingers one by one, all those pale sticky princes. You claimed your rights, my lord, but in the darkness I would eat your heirs. Taena gave a shudder. She gasped some words in a foreign tongue, then shuddered again and arched her back and screamed. She sounds as if she is being gored, the queen thought. For a moment she let herself imagine that her fingers were a bore's tusks, ripping the Myrish woman apart from groin to throat.

Are we supposed to wonder whether an heir to the throne was abducted/symbolically aborted/surgically removed?

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3 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Hi Leech :)  

On the one hand, I agree it's odd that sex without 'finishing inside' wouldn't be counted as treason -- since would one really trust ones rival (especially the hapless Lancel of less-than-surgical acuity) to 'pull out' in time; and therefore as a man could one really be sure (especially in a vexatious medieval age sans reliable paternity tests) that the ensuing offspring in which one was investing were really ones own legacy and not a worthless investment, from a purely genetic perspective (I don't want to get into an argument here about the rewards of adoption)?  On the other hand, sex that does not result in children might as well never have happened (again from that purely genetic endowment viewpoint); whereas children ensuing from an illicit encounter, however, are very definitely treason made flesh -- so maybe Lancel has a point (pun fully unintended, of course)!

I'm not sure where you're getting the C-section vibe here!  Perhaps you could elaborate?

'Lancel' reminds me of 'lance' = (to) prick; and 'lancet' = scalpel; so I suppose there are both reproductive and surgical associations to be mined, in the vein of Voice's notion of how in some unfortunate circumstances a woman's first 'bloody-bladed' experience (= losing her maidenhood) might also directly lead to and moreover embody her last (= fatal C-section).

The sentence 'Bastards are seldom made upon the belly' sure is peculiar.  I'm not sure what to make of it, beyond it's obvious meaning employed by Lancel in his own exculpatory defense.  Are you suggesting it might be some veiled reference to how if someone is delivered via C-section -- i.e. literally 'upon the belly' -- instead of vaginally; that somehow that infant might escape the taint of bastardy on a technicality?  Apart from being misogynistic, in its suggestion that the 'taint' is carried by the treacherous passage of the vagina; that would seem to be stretching the limits of semantic credibility!

'Spilling the seed' anywhere but the womb might also be interpreted as a kind of 'abortive' gesture -- the 'no harm done' which Lancel expresses -- whereby the lives of the unborn bastards are nullified.  It reminds me of that passage in which Cersei fantasizes about 'eating Robert's heirs' (in somewhat 'rat king' style), curiously juxtaposed with an obvious C-section motif towards the end of the passage:

Are we supposed to wonder whether an heir to the throne was abducted/symbolically aborted/surgically removed?

I'm out shopping for weekend sundries, so I only have a quick minute, but basically yes, Cersei is the epitome of corrupt. Even down to her handling of future "heirs". 

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On 4/26/2017 at 10:22 PM, SFDanny said:

I'm aware of the scene, but again I note the absence of the phrase "bed of blood" to be used in this scene. The phrase is associated with childbirth, not menstruation. Not even the first menstruation. You speculate how Lyanna's first menstruation may have happened in the Year of the False Spring, but that is later than Sansa's experience. Not that it is impossible by any means, but is there something other than speculation that makes you think this is the case? If we are to speculate how Lyanna might have a special connection with the Old Gods, and something in her life broke open old barriers of magic, don't you think it makes more sense to suggest this might have happened during childbirth? A childbirth in which she dies giving birth to her only child? Only death can pay for life - and the rebirth of magical creatures lost to the world. If I remember correctly.

 

It was you, not I, who brought up that specific usage:

 

On 4/26/2017 at 0:42 AM, SFDanny said:

Since when is a "bed of blood" a phrase used to describe menstruation? Childbirth, possibly, but menstruation, no. Surely you are not saying Lyanna gave birth in the Year of the False Spring? Do all images of flowers, in your view, point to menstruation? It is quite a jump to go from noting the phrase "woman flowered" is related to post pubescent women to your equation of "flowers=womanhood" or the idea all flower images are a reference to post pubescent women.

 

My point was/is as follows:

 

On 4/25/2017 at 2:14 PM, Voice said:

Flowers=Womanhood in asoiaf.

Post-pubescent men are "men grown," post-pubescent women are "women flowered." A blue flower, growing from a chink in a wall of ice, tells me that Lyanna's flowering caused a crack in Winter. So I would place her first bed of blood in the Year of the False Spring.

Barristan believes that Rhaegar loved Lyanna, but he confesses he did not know Rhaegar very well. Still, that remains quite plausible.

The idea that Lyanna loved Rhaegar, or would even find him attractive, is far more difficult to demonstrate. The text tells us that Lyanna was more like Arya, who did not swoon for princes – let alone married princes. And even Sansa did not swoon for Joffrey after the execution of her father. We also know that Lyanna did not look kindly upon men who kept more than one bed, and sired bastards within them.

So while I can see why Barristan might believe Rhaegar loved Lyanna, as it fits with a pro-dragon POV reconciling the narrative that Rhaegar abducted Lyanna (which we still do not know actually happened), it is far more difficult for me to see why/how Lyanna would love Rhaegar.

To the point of this OP, I think the blue flower+crack represent the way Lyanna's presence was able to break the barrier that had kept direwolves from Winterfell for 200 years.

 

The blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice sounds, to me, like an out-of-place bloom amid winter. I think this is analogous to the False Spring, which of course was a temporary chink in a season of winter. It was winter before the False Spring, and it was winter after the False Spring.

The wall is ice on both sides of the chink created by the blue flower...

Thus, I can't help but ponder whether Lyanna's blooming as a child-woman might have caused a temporary chink in an otherwise ongoing winter season.

Sansa's bed of blood, while not called, specifically "a bed of blood" nor "a bloody bed" is still, obviously, a bloody bed and a bed of blood. Once she shoves it in the fireplace, it became a bed of fire and blood. Or, at least, an ashy bloody bed.

If Dany had seen a smouldering blue flower dripping blood, I might be arguing that she glimpsed Sansa's flowering in the House of the Undying. But she didn't. She sees a flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice.

So I think Dany bears witness to a cold womb. That could be Lyanna's, or it could be another dead woman/child-woman. Pertinent to this OP, I think a valid argument can be made for it being Lyanna's flowering. She is dead, and may have ushered a pregnant she-wolf through the Wall. After all, that dead mother in Bran I AGOT was spectacular because its like had not been seen south of the Wall in 200 years.

Dany might have seen the mechanism by which that spectacle was possible.

The purpose of this OP is to draw attention to Lyanna as the source of this reintroduction of direwolves to the Wolfswood and the pups of Winterfell.

Off of this topic, I would nominate the Night's Queen as the fertile womb envisioned as the blue flower growing from the chink in Dany's wall of ice. But even then, I would say that Lyanna is the descendant of NQ's husband anyway, if not NK+NQ, and argue that Lyanna is the most likely candidate for the person who broke House Stark's 200-year direwolf drought anyway. :D 

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On 4/5/2017 at 8:25 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

Nice work @ravenous reader Just to add to the c-section discussion, the term c-section (as many may know) means one of two things; the name of Julius Caesar and how he was supposedly born, and/or  Lex Caesarea which means imperial law, or, royal law.

Also, I can't help but notice the possible play on words with c-section and sea section... because Jon is currently "under the sea" while at the wall and north of it. 

Now, if it is derived from Julius Caesar (or if GRRM chose this meaning for his story), then we also have JC (that means Julius Caesar, not Jesus Christ;) (and his holy Ghost)), then we also have other JC parallels as @Lost Melnibonean described in this post here, which I pasted below:

  • The allusions to Shakespear's Julius Caesar are too strong to ignore...

    Just as Wick Whittlestick barely grazed Jon's neck with the first dagger, Casca was the first to cut Ceaser with a glancing cut to the neck. Just as Caesar caught Casca by the arm, Jon caught Wick's wrist. Just as Wick retreated and put his arms up, Casca was frighted and shouted for help. (That Jon understood this to mean that Wick was denying involvement was very curious. I'm not sure what to make of that other than he might have been mistaken.) That Bowen Marsh wept and claimed to be doing it for the Watch clearly alluded to Brutus...

    "Let's kill him boldly, but not wrathfully; Let's carve him as a dish fit for the gods, Not hew him as a carcass fit for hounds:"

    And Brutus expected his fellow Romans to be glad, going so far as to persuade his fellow conspirators to ignore Marcus Antonius. Given the strong allusion to the assassination of Julius Caesar I'm assuming that Bowen will expect his brothers to be glad. I don't think he has a plan. And much like Brutus was forced to flee Rome in short order I think Bowen is in a very, very tight spot, because Tormund is set to play the role of Marcus Antonius. I would expect him to whip the wildings into a frenzy against Marsh and the other conspirators. 

     

     

@Lady Dacey Here is one of the discussions. It starts a little before this post, and goes a little after, with a few good links thrown in there just to keep you reading for a good long while :read:

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10 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

@Lady Dacey Here is one of the discussions. It starts a little before this post, and goes a little after, with a few good links thrown in there just to keep you reading for a good long while :read:

You're always so nice! Thanks. I actually felt silly and lazy after asking you for links and decided to use the search engine to look for "caesarian" and "c-section". I should have done it before asking but I was so excited it didn't cross my mind, sorry. A lot of interesting topics have come up. Thanks again.

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On 1/16/2018 at 5:38 PM, Lady Dacey said:

You're always so nice! Thanks. I actually felt silly and lazy after asking you for links and decided to use the search engine to look for "caesarian" and "c-section". I should have done it before asking but I was so excited it didn't cross my mind, sorry. A lot of interesting topics have come up. Thanks again. 

 

LOL! Love your avatar pic. :bowdown:

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I'm sure, that the blue flower on the wall of ice, is Jon Snow. Dany saw this vision in a trinity "bride of fire". So this is a clue, that Dany's third husband will be Jon.

In ASOIAF blue winter roses are symbol of Lyanna's and Rhaegar's love. Their child is also symbol of their love. Thus - blue rose = Jon.

Also Lyanna died in bed of blood, because, in my opinion, she was unable to give birth to her child on her own. So the maester, that was there at the Tower of Joy (and I think, that it was maester Marwyn. He, probably, also assisted Elia, when she was giving birth to Rhaegar's children, and Dany, when she was giving birth to Rhaego), had to perform on her a cesarean section.

Lyanna was described as "child-woman" and "slim of frame". In other words, she was petite. And women like that, often are unable to naturally give birth on their own, and need a c-section. So the cause of Lyanna's death, is extensive blood loss.

And that Jon's final scene in ADWD, similar to how Caesar was killed, is a clue about how Jon was born. It's an irony - Jon was born and died from the same cause.

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

I'm sure, that the blue flower on the wall of ice, is Jon Snow. Dany saw this vision in a trinity "bride of fire". So this is a clue, that Dany's third husband will be Jon.

In ASOIAF blue winter roses are symbol of Lyanna's and Rhaegar's love. Their child is also symbol of their love. Thus - blue rose = Jon.

Also Lyanna died in bed of blood, because, in my opinion, she was unable to give birth to her child on her own. So the maester, that was there at the Tower of Joy (and I think, that it was maester Marwyn. He, probably, also assisted Elia, when she was giving birth to Rhaegar's children, and Dany, when she was giving birth to Rhaego), had to perform on her a cesarean section.

Lyanna was described as "child-woman" and "slim of frame". In other words, she was petite. And women like that, often are unable to naturally give birth on their own, and need a c-section. So the cause of Lyanna's death, is extensive blood loss.

And that Jon's final scene in ADWD, similar to how Caesar was killed, is a clue about how Jon was born. It's an irony - Jon was born and died from the same cause.

 

A very conventional analysis.  :cheers:

Mayhaps one day you will invent a round disc that will fit this heavy barrow of mine. 

Seriously though, westeros.org is missing out if they don't start marketing these sorts of insights on rubber stamps.

Jon = Blue Flower, in particular, would be perfect for stamps and stencils, coloring books, flash cards, stuffed toys...

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3 hours ago, Voice said:

 

A very conventional analysis.  :cheers:

Mayhaps one day you will invent a round disc that will fit this heavy barrow of mine. 

Seriously though, westeros.org is missing out if they don't start marketing these sorts of insights on rubber stamps.

Jon = Blue Flower, in particular, would be perfect for stamps and stencils, coloring books, flash cards, stuffed toys...

Bran is the blue flower, the chink in the wall, the bitter bloom. 'The things I do for love' -- I'll explain it later...

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On 7/9/2018 at 5:35 PM, Megorova said:

Lyanna was described as "child-woman" and "slim of frame". In other words, she was petite. And women like that, often are unable to naturally give birth on their own, and need a c-section. So the cause of Lyanna's death, is extensive blood loss.

When is Lyanna described as "slim of frame"? Besides seeing a slim girl assumed by Theon to be Lyanna in a dream, in which we should take with a grain of salt, after all, Ned is missing a head, but apparently still identifiable. Theon's dreams can't be taken any more literally than the Neddard's fever dream. Even if Lyanna was slim, what does that really mean? Theon also thinks of Jeyne Poole (fake Arya) as slim, but tall, so slim doesn't necessarily mean petite. Many slim women can deliver babies just fine without the need for an operative delivery. 

 

On 7/9/2018 at 10:55 PM, ravenous reader said:

Bran is the blue flower, the chink in the wall, the bitter bloom. 'The things I do for love' -- I'll explain it later...

I'm curious to hear about this! I have come to wonder if the blue flower isn't a hint at House Florent, and not a Stark winter rose at all.

Edited by St Daga
clarification and spelling

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On 7/9/2018 at 9:55 PM, ravenous reader said:

Bran is the blue flower

 

In that case, I eagerly await his menstruation bloody bed. :commie:

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On 4/28/2017 at 11:52 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

Ravenous,

 I have been meaning to add this here for a long time, but my brain's memory department needs an upgrade. Anyway, this awkward discussion between Lancel and Jaime always stood out to me, and now I think I know why? Possibly another c-section motif, or maybe I am stretching it too far??? The name Lancel  sounds like a feminine version of the more manly "lance". This is in keeping with Lancel's character description as well. I am sure you can get the possible metaphor here ;)

A Feast for Crows - Jaime IV

". . . lay with my sweet sister?" Say it. Say it!
"Never spilled my seed in . . . in her . . ."
". . . cunt?" suggested Jaime.
". . . womb," Lancel finished. "It is not treason unless you finish inside. I gave her comfort, after the king died. You were a captive, your father was in the field, and your brother . . . she was afraid of him, and with good reason. He made me betray her."
"Did he?" Lancel and Ser Osmund and how many more? Was the part about Moon Boy just a gibe? "Did you force her?"
"No! I loved her. I wanted to protect her."
You wanted to be me. His phantom fingers itched. The day his sister had come to White Sword Tower to beg him to renounce his vows, she had laughed after he refused her and boasted of having lied to him a thousand times. Jaime had taken that for a clumsy attempt to hurt him as he'd hurt her. It may have been the only true thing that she ever said to me."Do not think ill of the queen," Lancel pleaded. "All flesh is weak, Jaime. No harm came of our sin. No . . . no bastard."
"No. Bastards are seldom made upon the belly." He wondered what his cousin would say if he were to confess his own sins, the three treasons Cersei had named Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella.
"I was angry with Her Grace after the battle, but the High Septon said I must forgive her."
 
Bastards are seldom made upon the belly, but maybe kings are?
By the way, I always thought it was supremely odd that sex with the queen was not treason unless you finish inside.

Bumping to get back to reread later :read:

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