Grover Bluejoy Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Based on their description, would it make sense that the Ibbenese are Neanderthals? Extinct creatures exist in this world, so why not an extinct branch of humans? Also based on their descriptions, it appears there is a branch or related species in Sothoryos as well, and that the Skagosi might have an admixture of Ibbenese blood. It's interesting how the Ibbenese had a similar battle with a similar species to The CoTF when they were settling and carving out new places to live in Essos. Part of what I really like about this series is the mystery behind the history of The Known World, and how we'll never get closure or explanations for some of these events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadedNorwegian Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Yeah, it`s pretty much confirmed that they are like our Neandethals, and that in the asoiaf universe multiple races still exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Bluejoy Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, DreadedNorwegian said: Yeah, it`s pretty much confirmed that they are like our Neandethals, and that in the asoiaf universe multiple races still exist. Very cool. I'm assuming there is some type of confirmation from Martin himself in an interview? I did a cursory search in Google and didn't see anything, aside from this post right here and another one concerning the same subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadedNorwegian Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Grover Bluejoy said: Very cool. I'm assuming there is some type of confirmation from Martin himself in an interview? I did a cursory search in Google and didn't see anything, aside from this post right here and another one concerning the same subject. Nah, but reading the World of Ice and fire books gives us a lot of clues about the Ibbenese and other humans races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Bluejoy Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 True. Ibbenese, Skagosi, and the brindled men of Sothoryos were the only ones I saw that fit more of a Neanderthal or Neanderthal type species that exist. Of course you have the tales of the people in The Thousand Islands, the winged and bloodless men in the Far East, etc., so there may be other species of humans running around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon Demands Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I'm not sure if they're one for one "Neanderthals" - though I interpreted them as such. I think the idea is that....think grounded in pseudo-realism Hyborean age and such, in their world a few other closely related hominid species survived. But, given that outright non-human races once existed (the children of the forest and the giants), they apparently just consider them "human" under a broader definition. I'm thinking of the Halo reboot trilogy explaining a few of the sub-types of ancient humans, some of which just don't exist in the modern era anymore or which were never discovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renly's Banana Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 The Ibbenese have to be human, since we know they can breed with humans just fine. My take on them is that they're just a very remote race of people who for some reason or another are more hairy and smaller. It's not like the Brindled Men, who we know cannot breed successfully with any human, making them a different species altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Bluejoy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 On 3/31/2017 at 9:15 PM, Renly's Banana said: The Ibbenese have to be human, since we know they can breed with humans just fine. My take on them is that they're just a very remote race of people who for some reason or another are more hairy and smaller. It's not like the Brindled Men, who we know cannot breed successfully with any human, making them a different species altogether. Well, Neanderthals are human, just a different species of human; I'm a bit of a pedant, I know. I think that's the same case with the people of Ib. Well, I don't know if I'd say they could mate very successfully though. According to the World Book, when an Ibbenese woman mates with non-Ibbenese, the results are stillborns and monstrosities. When an Ibbense male knocks up the non-Ibbense, the children are often deformed and sterile. Of course, this calls into question of whether the Skagosi actually are kin to the Ibbenese or not when you consider this, which is pure speculation to being with. I think you're onto something with Brindled Men in Sothoryos though. At first, I thought it might be more of the standard "Medieval" explanation for tattoos, but people in The Known World know what those are. Their description is pretty close to the Ibbenese, except the snout-like nose and of course, the brindled skin. Your user name is hilarious by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Others Take Them Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 It could also very easily be an example of subtle ignorant racism that commonly was seen in old historical texts, IE the "Bar-bars" being described as having the heads of dogs and communicating with barks, the dehumanized portrayal of pretty much every asian nation since Marco Polo, svengali characatures of jews, Uncle Tom negro stereotypes... The westerosi are a backwards and superstitious lot, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the maesters who wrote that book made most of it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hammer of Justice Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 On 31/03/2017 at 11:15 PM, Renly's Banana said: The Ibbenese have to be human, since we know they can breed with humans just fine Actually, that is not true, it is stated in the world of ice and fire that human/ibbenese inbreed would always result in stillborns and montrosities. If you remember the biology lessons, a species is often defined as the largest group of organisms in which two individuals can produce fertile offspring. If humans and Ibbenese can't produce fertile offsprings, then it is a strong hint that they are not humans (Homo sapiens)....and the only other known species that is closest to the Homo sapiens is the Homo neanderthalis (a different species) hehehe, asoiaf has so much of real world science that I'm almost convinced that is science finction instead of fantasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renly's Banana Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 @The Hammer of Justice But Brown Ben says he has Ibbenese ancestors.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hammer of Justice Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 On 07/05/2017 at 10:33 PM, Renly's Banana said: @The Hammer of Justice But Brown Ben says he has Ibbenese ancestors.. Brown Ben missed the biology lessons lol but seriously then, maybe the ibbenese are not like neanderthals as I thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon2909 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 11:22 AM, The Hammer of Justice said: Brown Ben missed the biology lessons lol but seriously then, maybe the ibbenese are not like neanderthals as I thought They are close enough. They remind me of the Dwarves from fantasy like LoTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Bluejoy Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 On Invalid Date at 4:43 AM, Others Take Them said: It could also very easily be an example of subtle ignorant racism that commonly was seen in old historical texts, IE the "Bar-bars" being described as having the heads of dogs and communicating with barks, the dehumanized portrayal of pretty much every asian nation since Marco Polo, svengali characatures of jews, Uncle Tom negro stereotypes... The westerosi are a backwards and superstitious lot, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the maesters who wrote that book made most of it up. Interesting. I didn't totally consider that thought, but that could very much be the case. Although, I wonder why a Westorosi Maester would say that only about the Ibbenese & the Sothoryosi "brindled men" and not other groups like the Dothraki, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddagain Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Given we now know Neanderthals are just a very divergent RACE not a separate species and that interbreeding did occur, I think we can confidently assume the the Ibbenese are pretty much the last of the neanderthals. For those of you who have not caught up on biology over the last 5 years the separate species neanderthal idea has been chucked out and we know that Europeans (and most Asians) have 1-4% Neanderthal contribution (not the same 4%). Only Africans have no ancestral neanderthal. Since this information was a pretty hot topic about the time the world book was written I think it probable that this has been built in. Not sure about those Denisovians though. GRRM is remiss!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodorisfaclessman Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 And yet their main city is described as being in many ways more advanced than many in westeros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hoare Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 On 2017-6-4 at 3:35 AM, Luddagain said: , I think we can confidently assume the the Ibbenese are pretty much the last of the neanderthals. But the neanderthals could breed with other humans, while the ibbenese give birth only to stillborns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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