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Better Call Saul -- Season 3 Fring-ing The Gang Back Together Again

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22 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

Just about everything Jimmy said after he kicked the door in, just to start.......

 

 

And also his criminal record, which would be admitted if he testified in court.  And the actual sequence of events with Kim and the account...which all squares with Chuck's account and Jimmy's confession.  And then you would have to bank on two or three people willing to commit perjury in court on Jimmy's behalf to make it work.  Doubtful.

Edited by Cas Stark

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1 minute ago, The Mance said:

So what, specifically, did Jimmy say that contradicts the fact that the last time he was at Chuck's house Chuck was in the process of papering his walls with mylar?  And what, specifically, did he say that contradicts the fact that Jimmy, at the urging of a doctor who would rather have supported just having Chuck committed to a psyche facility, had to get a temporary order from a judge to force Chuck to accept medical care?  And what, specifically, did he say that affirms that the conversation that Chuck recorded was a sincere admission of guilt rather than just a desperate conciliatory gesture to talk Chuck down off the ladder?  

Remember that at the actual moment that Jimmy opens his mouth to "confess" Chuck is literally standing on a ladder in the act of attaching sheets of mylar to the entire inside of his house.  You can probably actually hear the rustle of foil on the recording.  How do you think that is going to play with a jury?

 

I just don't think it's relevant, given the charges, which are pretty cut and dried, regardless of Chuck's mental state.  

What's in the confession is irrelevant and unlikely to be discussed, so i don't know why you're even bringing that up.  

We'll find out I guess in the next couple weeks.

 

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7 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

I just don't think it's relevant, given the charges, which are pretty cut and dried, regardless of Chuck's mental state.

Well I just think that if Jimmy could convince a jury that he had legitimate reasons to be concerned for Chuck's wellbeing, theres's no way they'd convict him of b&e.  And if he can taint the validity of the taped confession then it become not evidence, so no destruction of evidence charges.

 

 

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Just now, The Mance said:

Well I just think that if Jimmy could convince a jury that he had legitimate reasons to be concerned for Chuck's wellbeing, theres's no way they'd convict him of b&e.  And if he can taint the validity of the taped confession then it become not evidence, so no destruction of evidence charges.

 

 

it's clear the contents of the tape are not going to be discussed in the trial, and nothing Jimmy did that day, all of which  was witnessed by two people, indicated he was acting out of concern for Chuck.  

But again, I guess we'll see.

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6 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

it's clear the contents of the tape are not going to be discussed in the trial

How can they charge him with destroying evidence wihtout establishing whether what he destroyed was evidence?  I mean, maybe intent matters?  But then its just a matter of whether he believed what he was destroying was evidence, and that's pretty much the same conversation.

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4 minutes ago, The Mance said:

How can they charge him with destroying evidence wihtout establishing whether what he destroyed was evidence?  I mean, maybe intent matters?  But then its just a matter of whether he believed what he was destroying was evidence, and that's pretty much the same conversation.

They didn't charge him with destroying evidence, as far as I know.


That was a key part of Chuck's plan from the beginning.  To get Jimmy in court without going into the details about what was on the tape.

 

Edited by Swordfish

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23 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

They didn't charge him with destroying evidence, as far as I know.


That was a key part of Chuck's plan from the beginning.  To get Jimmy in court without going into the details about what was on the tape.

Oh, I thought that was one of the charges.  What was the felony charge then?  And yeah, there was nothing about the contents of the tape by itself that was actionable.

 

eta: maybe I'm thinking of destruction of property?

Edited by The Mance

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I really hope it doesn't come to a climax with likeable Jimmy and clever Kim getting the jury onside, calling Ernesto to the stand etc and basically exposing crazy mean Chuck, which looks the most likely route right now. Chuck knows Jimmy too well and he's far too accomplished and intelligent to lose that way.

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13 hours ago, The Mance said:

Oh, I thought that was one of the charges.  What was the felony charge then?  And yeah, there was nothing about the contents of the tape by itself that was actionable.

 

eta: maybe I'm thinking of destruction of property?

The felony was forceful entry, breaking in. The misdemeanors were destruction of property and assault

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10 hours ago, dooog said:

I really hope it doesn't come to a climax with likeable Jimmy and clever Kim getting the jury onside, calling Ernesto to the stand etc and basically exposing crazy mean Chuck, which looks the most likely route right now. Chuck knows Jimmy too well and he's far too accomplished and intelligent to lose that way.

I can't see this ever going to court. I am betting Jimmy will talk with Chuck and give up the McGill name and Chuck will be ok with that. Chuck will be a wreck about going to court, electronics and all.

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Chuck has already gone to court and was going to the office as well.  However I don't think it will go to a jury, there will be some agreement....still don't think Chuck is going to survive the series.

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Jimmy's only real concern is getting off of the felony B&E to keep his law license. I think there's enough to do it.  Prior the incident, he had a key and free access to Chuck's house.  A long history of helping Chuck. Chuck has a long history of odd and irrational behavior.  No reason for Jimmy to think he, specifically, was being denied access to Chuck's house.  Could easily argue he thought Chuck was doing some new wacky thing.

Unless the tape gets brought into evidence.  I don't think it will.  

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Didn't Chuck change the locks after the Mesa Verde incident last season? I don't recall him giving Jimmy another key so Jimmy no longer had free access to Chuck's place. Jimmy clearly didn't have permission to enter the premises and additionally used force to enter the premises - seems like a pretty cut and dry B&E plus Chuck has two mentally competent witnesses.

Does any felony conviction warrant automatic disbarment? Maybe someone with better knowledge than I could weigh in on this. From my own cursory reading, one of the causes for disbarment is conviction of a felony or misdemeanor involving moral turpitude (the bolded certainly does not apply in Jimmy's case). Further, B&E is a class four felony so I could see a situation where Chuck wins the 'battle' (Jimmy is convicted of B&E) but loses the 'war' (due to mitigating factors, the judge exercises discretion during sentencing and Jimmy gets away with probation and possibly a fine as well but gets to keep his law license).

Right now, most people are expecting Jimmy to simply be acquitted or the charges dropped. That might still happen but I would prefer the above scenario.

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12 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Does any felony conviction warrant automatic disbarment?

Within the context of the show, Jimmy & Kim discussed that the felony wasn't automatic disbarment, but it was VERY rare for them (the Bar) to make an exception... and they mentioned that Chuck is old friends with all of them so...

If you're looking for real-life context, @Ser Scot A Ellison might be able to weigh in

(ETA to cleanup post)

 

Edited by Ded As Ned

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Yes, Chuck had the locks changed and told the ADA he had done so.  So, I don't think Jimmy is going to be able to argue this was business as usual, and Chuck's witnesses aren't mentally incapacitated in any way.  Additionally, not sure if it would be admissable, but he had hired guards to prevent his brother from breaking in.......and I'm not sure if the tape wouldn't be admissable under the guise of motive alone in the B&E case, not pertaining to any crimes he admitted to, but as the reason why he broke in.

Edited by Cas Stark

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11 minutes ago, Ded As Ned said:

Within the context of the show, Jimmy & Kim discussed that the felony wasn't automatic disbarment, but it was VERY rare for them (the Bar) to make an exception... and they mentioned that Chuck is old friends with all of them so...

If you're looking for real-life context, @Ser Scot A Ellison might be able to weigh in

(ETA to cleanup post)

 

No clue.  I suspect it varies by State and that is entirely up to the office of disciplinary counsel.  The point they would key on is whether the felony involved a breach of trust.

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Eh, this is Jimmy we're talking about anyway.  He'll do something sly and dastardly to get out of losing his license.  Not just a simple defense.

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We know for a fact that Jimmy does not get disbarred. It is also my understanding that permanent disbarment is quite rare. Heck, I just read about a real-life case in New Mexico where a lawyer plead guilty to filing false tax returns thereby defrauding the United States of more than $425,000 in federal income taxes over a seven-year period. After cooperating with the IRS and Federal Investigators, he was sentenced to probation and the only sanction he received from the Disciplinary Board was a deferred suspension. I think the scenario I laid out is a plausible one and one that I consider preferable (and more believable) to Jimmy simply being acquitted or charges dropped due to him doing something sly. As I said, the crime of breaking and entering looks to be pretty cut and dry to me.

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2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Wouldn't it be great if Mike is the cause of Hector's stroke?  Yeah, that's mean, I don't care.

 

I mean, it's not as if Hector is a good person.

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