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Bakker XLVIII - Selected to LEAD not to READ


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52 minutes ago, unJon said:

Doesn't the Kel conversation have to be with either Shae or one of the Inchies. I mean in PoN the "mission" was kill Moe and in AR the "mission" is stop the Consult. 

Yeah, most likely. Given how much about the Consult is supposedly revealed, it seems like that would be the best thing. 

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4 hours ago, Werthead said:

Also, pretty sure I have no idea whatsoever what the final duology will be called. Maybe the actual read will reveal something more.

Axiom: Title of TSTSNBN will be Kel's status at the beginning of series. 

Empirical data point: Wert doesn't know title after reading end of TUC. 

Conclusion: Kel's status at end of TUC is not clear. 

Hypothesis: TUC ends on a cliffhanger. Kel claims that he is going to subvert the creation of the No God by himself becoming the God. But the book ends with it unclear if that happenaned or if Kel has become the No God. 

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Have we talked about this:

 

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Rising about him as though upon a vast bowl, the Sons of Men butchered the Sons of Ninjanjin across the cracked shoulders of the Urokkas. [GO, p. 137]

This phrase uses “sons of Ninjanjin” to refer to the Sranc. I find that remarkable.

Theory: The Sranc are made in mockery of the Nonmen, and Ninjanjin was instrumental in that process in some way. Donating his “DNA,” for instance.

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1 hour ago, Happy Ent said:

Theory: The Sranc are made in mockery of the Nonmen, and Ninjanjin was instrumental in that process in some way. Donating his “DNA,” for instance.

Well, of course Nin’janjin is chief among those responsible for the Sranc.  However, it was Cu’jara Cinmoi who really pushed him into the corner Nin'janjin found himself in along with the Inchoroi.  Had Cu’jara not attempted to capitalize on the catastrophe that came to Viri, had he not made Viri a tributary and so Nin'janjin a subject of his, the chances are good that the Inchoroi would never have been able to defeat the Nonmen.

Indeed, Nin'janjin's DNA is most probably the progenitor of the Sranc.  Also, most probably, the Womb Plague.  He is literally the father of his species doom.  Yet, it is Cu’jara Cinmoi who is really the author of his whole species destruction.  Without his misguided ambition, without his narrow-sighted reach to immortality, the Nonmen are probably in a much less precarious and species-ending position.

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14 hours ago, Werthead said:

 

To Cal's point: The text makes up 451 pages. The Glossary is 141 pages. There's also 26 pages of "bonus material" (I'll ask if it's safe to reveal what this is, as it's pretty cool but non-spoilery) and then 9 pages of maps (every map previously published) and then an acknowledgements page. 631 in total.

Yes, very interested to hear what the 26 pages of bonus material are. 

You could always post under spoiler tag.

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1 hour ago, profgrape said:

@Werthead is there a review embargo date?  Or are you free to post whenever you want?

Well, my PDF file came directly from Scott, so I don't have the press release. But he did not mention any embargo.

 

4 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Yes, very interested to hear what the 26 pages of bonus material are. 

You could always post under spoiler tag.

Not sure why Wert wouldn't talk about these, as they have already been posted online: The Four Revelations and The False Sun. Not sure if they're exactly the same versions, though. . .

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We're not sure yet. Given that this is the final installment, Scott has been having problems finding something that works and doesn't contain spoilers. Scott would like to provide extracts to both Adam and I, but he's been looking for something that would work well since before the Holidays and has yet to find anything.

Time will tell. . . :)

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It better have some sort of conclusion or I'm going to be throwing things.

 

This is going to be hotly debated. I think, generally speaking, it will not be regarded as "the" conclusion. The end of a chapter, but if there was no more Earwa books, ever, I think a good few readers will be disappointed.

 

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I just don't want to end up with something like the finale of Lost.

 

It's not really similar, either structurally or thematically.

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I don't expect y'all to answer these, only to understand that this is the sort of thing I'm looking for. First, factual ones:

Most of that stuff is answered, some of it in the opening paragraphs of TUC. Most of the second paragraph stuff is alluded to, a couple of points are much more firmly answered, but the deep metaphysics of the world are more alluded to and teased more than answered outright. Some answers are given if you read between the lines: the people of a medieval fantasy world, even with badass sorcery, don't have the language to sit around and discuss advanced metaphysics, but some theories from the fandom are indeed confirmed and others shot down in blazing flames.

 

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Yes, very interested to hear what the 26 pages of bonus material are. 

 

As Pat says, they're The False Sun and The Four Revelations. I was surprised to see them there, as I thought Scott was holding fire on them for The Atrocity Tales collection.

 

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We're not sure yet. Given that this is the final installment, Scott has been having problems finding something that works and doesn't contain spoilers. Scott would like to provide extracts to both Adam and I, but he's been looking for something that would work well since before the Holidays and has yet to find anything.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath on this.

Scott also sent me an extra map not in the ARC: a map of Golgotterath itself.

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To continue on that, I would think that the best single way to get people interested and/or buy this book would be to go after those who had read the original trilogy and liked it but didn't continue - there are probably a whole bunch of those out there. So go for a chapter that ties into the old stuff. Go for a chapter with Cnaiur being awesome, or Akka and Cnaiur debating something, or something that talks about the Dunyain more, or something that talks about Fane/Inrithism more. Or...hmm. Probably the best would be to actually spoil something about the Consult, which is probably the single most compelling thing in the series left after Kellhus. It can be super spoilery for that, and that's good - because the point is to make people want to find out what's going to happen next.

I still think that he should have released one of the chapters of Ishterbenith and Sorweel - because while it would have been spoilery, it would have also showcased some of the best writing Bakker's ever done. 

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Hah! I recently said the false sun was a big nothing burger since only a few dozen people in his entire readership had read it / knew it existed, so therefore it couldn't actually transmit any crucial information. Just an archaic red herring

That it is included in this book suggests otherwise.

Is it an appendix ala the story of liet kynes or is it a prologue ala pate?

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