Bakker XLVIII - Selected to LEAD not to READ

[Pino Proxy]

1 minute ago, unJon said:

Just read the next series already and all your questions will he answered. Then come join the discussion. 

Ughh, first I have to read 150 pages of TTT appendix, then wait until Monday night for The Judging Eye to come in the mail.

It really does seem to me that the primary characters in this book are still directly connected to Kellhus (i.e. he's on their mind). Just the impression I got from that summary snippet.

[unJon]

15 minutes ago, YoungBoulheim said:

Ughh, first I have to read 150 pages of TTT appendix, then wait until Monday night for The Judging Eye to come in the mail.

It really does seem to me that the primary characters in this book are still directly connected to Kellhus (i.e. he's on their mind). Just the impression I got from that summary snippet.

I agree with that. Kel very much as Central to the story as he ever was just minus the POV. 

[Callan S.]

8 hours ago, YoungBoulheim said:

He has so much power and control, so I don't get how his prominence and relevance would suddenly just go down.

That's what he'd like you to think.

Think of Kellhus as a plague. All scenes in latter books are plague touched and the characters in them are plague touched.

A plague doesn't need a POV to be in the room.

[Hello World]

Do Bakker's recent comments (on a different subject) that it would be good for us if someone were in control show that Kellhus has good intentions?

[Darth Richard II]

Ugh I hope not.

[Callan S.]

By someone I think he meant someone human

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

On 4/20/2017 at 10:35 PM, YoungBoulheim said:

Okay, this makes sense, then. But it makes me wonder if he'll ever become more front and center again.

EDIT: I couldn't resist, and I read the summary on Amazon's page for The Judging Eye. Weird how Kellhus still seems awfully prominent.

@.H. said it best PoN is the story of Kellhus encountering the world, and dominating it. A good deal of it is through his POV. TAE, still is heavily influenced by Kellhus and central to the plot and all that happens on Earwa. It just changes because it seen through the eyes of others, and the effects Kellhus has on them. Still, as in PoN, TAE revolves around Kellhus. It's a brilliant decision by Bakker, imho. It lets you get to know the effects the Aspect-Emperor has had on their lives.

ETA: no need to wonder, Kellhus is front and center throughout, by proxy though.

[LuckyCharms]

I was talking with my friend about how the series could possibly end in the most anticlimactic manner possible. This was sorta the telos of thought we came to.

The first series follows the tonal structure of: Competing human factions fractiously divided whilst the obvious larger threat looms on the horizon. The great threat being the Consult.

In my opinion, the second series also follows this structure: Competing factions fractiously divided whilst the obvious larger threat looms on the horizon. The larger threat in this schema being the Gods feeding on damnation and suffering. I'm anticipating some sort of Hegelian synthesis between humanity and the Consult to combat their obvious common foe.

Now, if we follow Mimara current narrative trajectory; forgiving Galian and forgiving Koringhus, could we potentially see her forgiving the Consult for their sinful ways? Then, freed of their neurotic compulsion to escape damnation, they are positioned to ally with humanity potentially.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

4 hours ago, LuckyCharms said:

Now, if we follow Mimara current narrative trajectory; forgiving Galian and forgiving Koringhus, could we potentially see her forgiving the Consult for their sinful ways? Then, freed of their neurotic compulsion to escape damnation, they are positioned to ally with humanity potentially.

Interesting. Though, I'm on board that Mimara will forgive Kellhus and destroy the No-God by looking upon it with the JE and answering his questions. 

[Callan S.]

Totally.

As long as you ask no further questions on the matter.

No, I think what happened with Galian is she decided to spare him just that extra excruciating torture by gaming the rules of morality/rape by consenting to the ordeal. After seeing him with the judging eye and seeing the noble parts of him that are just intermingled with the slurry of him. Somewhat like Cnaiur is a mix of noble and monsterous.

[lokisnow]

Mimara forgiving the consult for being rape demon xenocidal aliens would be precisely the sort of misogyny blindness that supposedly proves feminist credentials we should be anticipating! Lol.

[redeagl]

Forgiving Kellhus and the Consult and destroying the No-God with a glance?!! Don't buy into it,myself. But we have our bet @Michael Seswatha Jordan

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

1 hour ago, redeagl said:

Forgiving Kellhus and the Consult and destroying the No-God with a glance?!! Don't buy into it,myself. But we have our bet @Michael Seswatha Jordan

Ok. I bet You a whole pack of Ramen noodles.

ETA: I never said anything about Mimara forgiving the Consult, only that it was interesting.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

8 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Is there confirmation that Mimara can expunge damnation by forgiving someone?

She forgives Koringhus, and the Eye approves. I could quote it all for you or you could reread the section.

[unJon]

Key to TUC was appeared in TJE. Damnation is a "false foil."

[.H.]

8 minutes ago, unJon said:

Key to TUC was appeared in TJE. Damnation is a "false foil."

So, damnation is just a trap set by the 100 (or the cubit)?  Mimara is key because she can set a new order as meaning for humans by humans?

[profgrape]

1 hour ago, .H. said:

So, damnation is just a trap set by the 100 (or the cubit)?  Mimara is key because she can set a new order as meaning for humans by humans?

Things are leaning in that direction.  What the "new order" is, however, is up for debate.  When answering whether people could guess or deduce the game changer in TUC, Bakker himself said it depended on how "twisted" they were.  So it might end up looking like what @lokisnow suggested, a world where the Consult are forgiven despite their having essentially made sin their purpose.

[.H.]

19 minutes ago, profgrape said:

Things are leaning in that direction.  What the "new order" is, however, is up for debate.  When answering whether people could guess or deduce the game changer in TUC, Bakker himself said it depended on how "twisted" they were.  So it might end up looking like what @lokisnow suggested, a world where the Consult are forgiven despite their having essentially made sin their purpose.

I have my doubts that Kellhus lets the Consult survive, Mimara's forgiveness or not.  Rather, I think she forgives Kellhus and Akka is forced to eat crow, despite being right.

[profgrape]

36 minutes ago, .H. said:

I have my doubts that Kellhus lets the Consult survive, Mimara's forgiveness or not.  Rather, I think she forgives Kellhus and Akka is forced to eat crow, despite being right.

Maybe she lets Kellhus become the No-God and *then* forgives him?

[Kalnestk Oblast]

Well, first Mimara will have to let herself get gangraped by  the Consult and/or the remnants of the Great Ordeal, and forgive them all in a bukkake-filled explosion of Meaning and Judgment. 

/only half joking

//you know it's plausible