Jump to content

Bakker XLVIII - Selected to LEAD not to READ


lokisnow

Recommended Posts

Just now, Hello World said:

Did he? I thought it was that guy with duck avatar that said TGO "absolutely concludes" TAE or something along those lines.

He said it had a very good ending and concluded a lot of things. Not the overall story, but it had a good beginning, middle and end. Here's his review at TSA if you're interested.

And that's fine - others thought that as well - but it's good to determine what kind of reviewer it is. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And to be fair, @Werthead said something pretty similar.

Quote

The Great Ordeal was originally the first half of a much longer book that had to be split for publication. The risk here was that it may only feel like half a novel, but this is not the case at all. Events are set in motion at the start of the book which culminate in the caverns of Ishterebinth, in the forests of Kuniuri, on the streets of Momemn and, most spectacularly, on the summit of Dagliash. This multi-stranded finale is epic and breathtaking, among the greatest convergences in modern epic fantasy, and the notion it was originally supposed to be a mid-novel climax makes you wonder what exactly Bakker is holding back for the second half. The problem with this climax is that only a couple of strands are firmly resolved, with the rest ending on a series of absolutely titanic cliffhangers (as in, Dance with Dragons levels of cliffhangers or greater).

(He also messed up the reason why women are less than men in that review, but I think we've swung him around on that). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, bakkerfans said:

THAT REFERENCE TO DANCE WITH DRAGONS REALLY RUBS ME THE WRONG WAY.  I DON'T THINK I COULD EVER HATE ANYONE ENOUGH TO SAY THAT ABOUT THEM

Whereas my view was that TGO was basically nothing but cliffhangers ala ADWD, with virtually nothing resolved or resolved clearly. The entire Theon storyline has more resolution than basically all of TGO. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Whereas my view was that TGO was basically nothing but cliffhangers ala ADWD, with virtually nothing resolved or resolved clearly. The entire Theon storyline has more resolution than basically all of TGO. 

:) KALBEAR, YOU MAKE ME SMILE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Whereas my view was that TGO was basically nothing but cliffhangers ala ADWD, with virtually nothing resolved or resolved clearly. The entire Theon storyline has more resolution than basically all of TGO. 

I think there are some parallels between the Theon/Reek storyline and the Ishterebinth arc - both were extremely dark, very well written, self-contained and had reasonably satisfying endings. But the rest of the novels' storylines were basically left unresolved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Darth Richard II said:

I just don't want to end up with something like the finale of Lost.

Also, eh, why does that guy talk in all caps?

- IT'S NOT A LOST ENDING

- I GOT CARRIED AWAY CHANNELING WUTTEAT AND PROBABLY SOME KIND OF PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUE

- I AM ALSO FOND OF DR2'S POSTS AND I QUITE LIKE BOTH OF YOUR MONIKERS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Paxter said:

I think there are some parallels between the Theon/Reek storyline and the Ishterebinth arc - both were extremely dark, very well written, self-contained and had reasonably satisfying endings. But the rest of the novels' storylines were basically left unresolved.

That was pretty much what I concluded as well, though I think Theon's story was a better overall arc than Sorweel (as we're still debating about whether or not Serwa used sorcery or not, and there were some people questioning whether or not Sorweel even lived). 

The other storylines either end in a really bad place (the Cnaiur chapter really should have been left out) or end with real confusion. Especially Momemn's arc. Dagliash, I guess, ends 'fine', but a lot of that is because of extratextual reading - things like finding out that multiple nuclear weapons have been used in the history of Earwa despite that never been even hinted at in the text makes Dagliash work a bit better, but at the cost of cohesion in the actual story. I hope that the glossary in this one helps clarify some of these weird plot details. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As to @Wertheadnow getting the ARC, and others presumably getting it soon, here are the questions I want to get answered. I don't expect y'all to answer these, only to understand that this is the sort of thing I'm looking for. First, factual ones:

  • Is Esme dead?
  • Is Kelmomas Ajokli's avatar?
  • Is Mimara Onkis' avatar?
  • How was the White Luck stopped?
  • What was the thinking behind the incredibly stupid nuke trap at Dagliash?
  • Did Kellhus know about the effects of Sranc?
  • How did the Consult find out about Ishual?
  • Does Cnaiur have even a slight point?
  • Do we find out about the Nail of Heaven?

Then the metaphysical ones:

  • Does Mimara actually forgive sin? Can she stop damnation?
  • Was Koringhus right?
  • Is Kellhus just as right?
  • Are the Consult right?
  • Is the Inverse Fire right?
  • Do we find out why Akka is having the weird-ass dreams that he has been, and what has caused them?
  • Do we understand what the Eschaton is?
  • Do we get why Earwa is special, or even if Wutteat was telling the truth?
  • Do we find out why the rules of the universe are the way they are?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, larrytheimp said:

Just for fun, I'm guessing that we only get answers to the first two and last three of the factual questions, and answers to none of the metaphysical ones you listed.

That would definitely make it very disappointing to me, I'll confess. I figure we'll know pretty quickly if Esme died, for instance, but I'm not entirely sure that we will do anything important with Cnaiur other than having him as a Very Special Guest Star. 

My prediction is that similar to TTT, we'll have a very large, multi-threaded climax around...Golgotterath, I guess? - where we get explanations woven with big-ass battles and other things like that. At this point, one of the questions I have is who is going to actually have the conversation with Kellhus - who will act as the Kellhus to his Moe. Akka seems absurdly behind and confused, Mimara appears to be more of an agent than an asker. Kelmomas maybe? That'd be a fucked-up conversation. Esme would be ideal, but again - dead. And Sorweel seems way too human to get most of this stuff. Maybe it's a conversation between Kellhus and Aurang again; that might fit more with things, showing how much Kellhus understands. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

That would definitely make it very disappointing to me, I'll confess. I figure we'll know pretty quickly if Esme died, for instance, but I'm not entirely sure that we will do anything important with Cnaiur other than having him as a Very Special Guest Star. 

My prediction is that similar to TTT, we'll have a very large, multi-threaded climax around...Golgotterath, I guess? - where we get explanations woven with big-ass battles and other things like that. At this point, one of the questions I have is who is going to actually have the conversation with Kellhus - who will act as the Kellhus to his Moe. Akka seems absurdly behind and confused, Mimara appears to be more of an agent than an asker. Kelmomas maybe? That'd be a fucked-up conversation. Esme would be ideal, but again - dead. And Sorweel seems way too human to get most of this stuff. Maybe it's a conversation between Kellhus and Aurang again; that might fit more with things, showing how much Kellhus understands. 

Doesn't the Kel conversation have to be with either Shae or one of the Inchies. I mean in PoN the "mission" was kill Moe and in AR the "mission" is stop the Consult. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...