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Crackpots I believe in


chrisdaw

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I had made this topic before but it got deleted, a quirk of the board and nothing against it a mod I asked thought. So I'm remaking the topic as I made it originally because I wanted a record of the below. Though I am of course open to discussing any of it. Some amendments and new bits here and there.

1) Aeron is less mad than it seems. When he goes to the sea and the Drowned God speaks to him, that is the 'sea is in him', he is actually being skinchanged by someone or magically contacted by someone, perhaps a glass candle user. They are feeding him information trying to get him to do their bidding. Particularly they're trying to get him to crown Theon, but he thinks that's impossible, so when he has gotten to the point of the voice telling him to crown Theon he thinks it must be wrong, that he's misunderstanding the Drowned God's word and sort of fills in the blanks himself. Basically there's a very frustrated skinchanger or otherwise magic practitioner behind Aeron.

2) Euron is going to second life and thus become and corrupt Drogon and become a stone sphinx, a hybrid of a dragon and a kraken, he will slowly grow into a sea dragon as his kraken self overcomes the dragon part and he'll end up a sea based being and in the ocean. Before he does he will have infected the realm with Greyscale, that's what the stone beast's shadow flame is, greyscale. The stone beast will breathe greyscale because Euron is going to have greyscale when he sacrifices himself to second life the dragon. A very large amount of the realm's population will contract this greyscale. Alternative he will do this not to Drogon but to Rhaegal, and then in this form as Rhaegal defeat Drogon. It's hard to split the foreshadowing between the two possibilities. To second life the dragon Euron will need a Targ child also of his blood, currently he plans to have this child with Dany but for whatever reason he will not succeed in getting a child on Dany that survives long enough in the womb to become the sacrifice. He will then settle for an alternate source of Targ blood, Arianne, and with her he will succeed. From her is also how he will get greyscale. JC -> Daemon -> Arianne -> Euron. Arianne will also make a component of the Stone Beast, not just her Targ blood but her Greenblood. It's Garin's revenge on the Valyrians as the Stone Beast ruins Dany's dragon and grip on power.

3) Aeron is going to second life and thus become a leviathan (whale). And as the leviathan Aeron is going to fight, defeat and drag the stone beast Euron to the bottom of the ocean. Possibly devouring him. That's what Patchface's 'the old fish eat the young fish' is about, and Manderly's mural.

4) A great sea event is going to occur that will wash the Titan of Bravos away. The sea event will also flood Winterfell, and the Titan of Bravos or part of it at least will wash up in Winterfell.

5) The Narrow Sea will run dry. How specifically I don't know. The coldness will freeze the caps which will play a part, and maybe Bran makes a new Wall south and drains lots of ocean water or the Others summon an ice dragon from the narrow sea, emptying it. It won't empty fully, there will still be a middle lake, like the dry Dothraki Sea and the womb of the world.

6) When the narrow sea runs dry, Davos will find his luck there, his fingerbones that he lost during the Blackwater. And accordingly he will have very good luck, as he's going to find Aeron's leviathan in the dried out narrow sea, and in the belly of the whale he'll find the stone dragon. It may not be Davos finds it so much as he happens on it by getting swallowed by the Leviathan before the sea runs dry, and his good luck is that the sea runs dry, saving him. I don't know, but drogon is going to end up in a whale's belly or by the whale and Davos is going to find it, and his luck.

7) The greyscale will actually seem to help in the fight against the Others. Not entirely sure how, but it will serve a purpose, and people will think it is the saviour, but it will ultimately just prove to be another path to destruction or a path that requires more sacrifice than our heroes will accept.

8) The climactic battle of the WFTD will be fought in the dried out narrow sea. There will be an exodus from mainland Westeros and the realm of men will make their last stand at the gullet. There they will build a makeshift wall by throwing anything and everything they can in the gullet, a crude blockade basically. Much of it will be wood from shipwrecks, and they will fire it during the battle. I think humanity is on the eastern side. This is what Mother Mole's vision was really of, and Melisandre sees it too. Jaime and Arya are the two leaders here, and when they fire the wall it will be akin to when Nymeria fired her ships, a statement that this would be their last stand. So long as Jaime holds the wall, so long as he keeps it burning, the realm lives. When the flames die out, so will he, and the whole world too.

9) Besides the Patchface quote about the young and old fish, his quotes which have in them 'under the sea' is about what happens in the dried out narrow sea. To his mind, everything there, because its in the dried out sea, is described in an aquatic theme. People are merman and mermaids, horses are seahorses, horns are seashells.

10) The great bulk of the Dothraki will not cross the poison water to Westeros with Dany. The great Khalasar will form, but it will not cross. But then the Narrow Sea will run dry, and then it will and they will arrive at the back of the realm of men at their makeshift wall at the gullet and help fight the Others. The defenders will blow horns to announce their arrival. That's what this Patchface quote is about.

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Patchface jumped up. "I will lead it!" His bells rang merrily. "We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh."

11) There exists magic doors in the world that can serve as teleports, to use them one must say the right words before them. The doors of the House of Black and White are one, the magic door below Castle Black another. If one says the right magic words for a specific location then steps through one of these doors, when they do they will arrive at that location. There will be many of these doors hidden in caves beneath Westeros. Arya is going to use them, the magic words will be in the language of the COTF and Arya is going to be taught it, what she needs of it anyway. The language of the COTF is described as sounds heard in nature. When all this plays out, it will give relevance to the saying 'words are wind', an ancient reason for where the saying was derived. And its why GRRM refused his editor in cutting down the use of the saying.

12) Arya will get greyscale. And this vision of Mel's is not irrelevant Alys Karstark but really is of Arya. And it will happen.

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"Arya." His voice was hoarse. "My half-sister, truly …"

"… for you are bastard born. I had not forgotten. I have seen your sister in my fires, fleeing from this marriage they have made for her. Coming here, to you. A girl in grey on a dying horse, I have seen it plain as day. It has not happened yet, but it will."

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The girl. I must find the girl again, the grey girl on the dying horse. Jon Snow would expect that of her, and soon. It would not be enough to say the girl was fleeing. He would want more, he would want the when and where, and she did not have that for him. She had seen the girl only once. A girl as grey as ash, and even as I watched she crumbled and blew away.

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"If your stiff-necked lord commander will allow it. Did your fires show you where to find this girl?"

"I saw water. Deep and blue and still, with a thin coat of ice just forming on it. It seemed to go on and on forever."

"Long Lake. What else did you see around this girl?"

"Hills. Fields. Trees. A deer, once. Stones. She is staying well away from villages. When she can she rides along the bed of little streams, to throw hunters off her trail."

And it will occur in the dried out narrow sea, the lake being that what remains of the sea.

13) Arya will fall pregnant by Gendry, but with greyscale the child will be doomed to die, that's what the greyscale will do besides the usual, no children will be born living from greyscale suffering parents. But when Dany wakes the stone dragon, Drogon as Davos finds him, the curse of the stone beast, the Euron influence, Garin's curse, will be destroyed. Everyone with greyscale will be cured, reborn, including Arya.

14) Sansa will both poison Tyrion to death and lose her virginity to him, on the same night. Or she will be willing but Tyrion will refuse her, his last act of kindness. And Jaime will claim responsibility for the murder and Jon will sentence him to take the black for it.

15) Arya, a princess of the kingdom of the north, will marry Robert Arryn, the king on the IT, this will reunite the realm as the KITN will then bend the knee to the king on the IT. The marriage may not occur before Jon bending the knee, it may just be the betrothal. Arya will not want to marry SR and SR will not want to marry Arya, but Jon and Sansa will force them. Jon will lock (pregnant) Arya in the maiden vault and she will escape. But in the end the marriage will happen. Possibly Jon puts Dany and Sansa in the maiden vault for safe keeping too, putting the realm back together won't be easy and bitches can't be trusted not to do dumb shit.

16) Dany will glamour as Ygritte in order to get Jon to have sex with her, it will work, and they'll do it against the wall where Ygritte died and the wall will crack there. Dany will fall pregnant and give birth to a living girl who will have the stub of a tail. She will do all this because she will lose Drogon and come to believe she must sacrifice a child of hers to regain him, to wake the dragon. She will come to this belief at least partly through learning what Rhaegar learnt in that ancient Valyrian scroll. Also she will have experienced what happened with Drogo and Euron. The comet will be back in the sky and she'll believe she has to conceive the child before it's gone. And will succeed on that note too.

17) Rhaegar believed he would have to sacrifice Jon to save the realm, and he intended to do it. Likely Rhaegar first believed he had to be the sacrifice, then Aegon, and maybe in the end all three or just Jon. That's why Rhaegar was so melancholy. And likely the obscure scroll he read either gave him the impression or strengthened it. Ultimately Targaryens could/can ride dragons through the sacrifice of their kin. The kin will allow others to second life a dragon, and that dragon would then be friendly enough with family to ride. That's what the scroll will be about, but Rhaegar probably came to interpret it to mean the sacrifice would grant him a flaming sword (Lightbringer), and that's why he decided he had to become a great warrior, to wield it effectively.

18) What this is all leading to is a situation where Dany is pregnant by Jon with a child she intends to sacrifice to wake the dragon to save the realm. And Jon has a clear choice, either he is a Targaryen like his father Rhaegar, and he allows the sacrifice to happen. Or he's a Stark like his father Eddard and refuses to allow the death of a child as the ultimate presiding point of principal. Jon will save the child of ice and fire from sacrifice. Though by the time she gives birth Dany might have found she can't sacrifice the child anyway. For emotive reasons, not incapacitation.

19) Dany will die. And when she does she will second life Drogon and wake him from stone and grant him back his true fire and save the world. She will have been mistaken in thinking she has to sacrifice another of her children. The blood sacrifice requirement is very real but has already been fulfilled through Rhaego, she need only die to become the Dragon. And when Dany becomes the dragon it will not be a piss ant little dragon like the Drogon we know, it's going to be like Balerion.

20) The tragedy at Summerhall was sabotage, but the sabotage was not an attempt to prevent the return of dragons but to bring about their return. The saboteur(s) believed, had a suspicion or knew the requirement for a Targaryen blooded child sacrifice to wake the dragon, and the purpose of their sabotage efforts was to fulfil this requirement. They either brought their knowledge to the king and was rejected or more likely kept it to themselves because they knew it would be rejected. They then acted in secret. But their attempt failed because Rhaegar did not die, Dunk saved him, but had Rhaegar died it probably would have worked. The saboteur was most likely Shiera, if not possibly Bloodraven or the two together.

21) Lancel will become High Septon. Dany will sentence Jaime to the dragon pit and Lancel, armoured only in his faith will brave the pit to save Jaime. He will succeed and it will be deemed a miracle and he will be raised to HS. Eventually when he refuses to make peace with Jon's heretical north Jaime will murder him.

22) Jaime will be offered the crown. He will reject it and instead will help kingmake Tyrion.

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1 hour ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Just out of curiosity how sure are you any of your theories will happen? 30%? 70%?

Foreshadowing for Aeron second lifing a Leviathan is sparse and how we get to the gullet and Jaime's and Arya's role in that is murky. The rest I'm all confident in as far as it was the intention at the time the text was written, obviously GRRM can change his mind and it goes out the window. But generally everything grows stronger the more stuff is released and much of it is based on recent releases meaning it's less likely he's going to change direction. For example ADWD established the second life within animals and TWOIAF gave us Valyrians and dragons as kin.

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8 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

16) Dany will glamour as Ygritte in order to get Jon to have sex with her, it will work, and they'll do it against the wall where Ygritte died and the wall will crack there.

Jesus, how hard are they gonna bang? 

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9 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

15) Arya, a princess of the kingdom of the north, will marry Robert Arryn, the king on the IT, this will reunite the realm as the KITN will then bend the knee to the king on the IT.

Ok.  I don't see any of these happening (no offense), but this one?? Really?

@chrisdaw I am extremely curious as to where this one comes from.

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All interesting and well organized into a realistic order. But I have a hard time with quite a bit of this. Especially considering the proposed amount of book(s) we have left. Some of the cataclysmic events you propose could easily take an entire book to detail, setup, and explain. I like where you're going with this even though I have strong doubts that any of the points will prove true.

6 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

The rest I'm all confident in as far as it was the intention at the time the text was written, obviously GRRM can change his mind and it goes out the window. But generally everything grows stronger the more stuff is released and much of it is based on recent releases meaning it's less likely he's going to change direction.

This came off like you are saying "I know where the story was meant to go and if GRRM changes it then he deviated from his original intent. So no matter what I'm not wrong that my thoughts were fact at one point." I would argue that any changes GRRM makes to his original storyline would be made in the interest of consistency and continuity. A story is only meant to go where it does go. And anything that doesn't make it into the books is just fodder for fan fiction and extrapolation. But, if these theories don't come to life, I would be very happy to read your own stories because you definitely have some good thoughts.

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On ‎4‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 3:03 AM, Wolf of the Steppes said:

Ok.  I don't see any of these happening (no offense), but this one?? Really?

@chrisdaw I am extremely curious as to where this one comes from.

It relies on a lot else and like a domino effect I'd have to explain a lot else (too much) to give a full picture. So in short form.

Jon becomes KITN. Foreshadowing isn't really required, there's a will out there, one which GRRM went well out of the way to have created.

Aegon and Dany fight the Dance. Dany wins, is hated, KL revolts and boots her out of the city. A Great Council is called to fill the role of king and queen, Sansa outplays Cersei in the game of thrones and Tyrion is made king and Sansa queen. Sansa has Tyrion name SR his heir because she can control SR and thus if Tyrion should die she'd control the realm through the king. Tyrion agrees because Sansa manipulates him and a king needs a heir and there will be no-one else, Jaime's children will be either dead or Jaime won't want them in the line of succession.

To expand on this particular bit, Sansa as she smartens up is going to be replaying what she has seen and what she has been told. Particularly she's had it explained to her what Tyrion wants, which is the key to manipulating him. She's seen Cersei take power in KL by offing her husband and ruling through her child. LF basically did the same to Lysa. For some foreshadowing look at how Sharra Arryn tried very hard to do the same to Aegon, trying to marry him and get him to name her son Ronnel Arryn heir to the IT. Sharra did not succeed in this, but that's because Sharra was no Sansa and Tyrion is no Aegon.

So Jon KITN sending ravens to KL begging for help against the Others. King Tyrion pissed off because Jon as KITN is rebellion, and he does what he did the first time he sat the IT and the north came calling for help against a zombie enemy, that is not a whole lot. Jon can't beat the Others with just the north so eventually he has to march south, as much to flee as to try and forge an alliance with the south.

Here's a thread on the foreshadowing of Jon coming south.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/137902-the-foreshadowing-inevitibility-of-jon-coming-south/

At some point Arya turns from Sansa to Jon as Sansa's Lannister ways piss Arya off.

Jon with his rag tag army defeats Tyrion. Tyrion runs and locks himself away in KL, his dragon dead and his walls his only protection against Jon who will either be at them or racing towards them, Tyrion will order something horrendous (father like son), Sansa then does the Jaime and murders him so that the order can not be carried out, Sansa opens the gates of KL to Jon and Jon has his hour of the wolf, in the same circumstances, king dead, young heir, mess to sort out.

Now, Jon's objective here is not the crown, he doesn't want to be king, he wants the realm to unite and fight against the Others. So what he needs is a king and queen that everyone will accept and do his bidding. Arya is now a princess of the north and Jon speaks for her, Robert Arryn is heir to the Iron Throne (with Tyrion's death really king) and spoken for by Sansa.

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Arya cocked her head to one side. "Can I be a king's councillor and build castles and become the High Septon?"

"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon." 

Arya screwed up her face. "No," she said, "that's Sansa." She folded up her right leg and resumed her balancing. Ned sighed and left her there.

Jon takes Eddards place in the foreshadowing. Note the similarity to this.

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Spoiler

"He doesn't," Lord Robert insisted. "He wants my father's castle, that's all, so he pretends." The boy clutched the blanket to his pimply chest. "I don't want you to marry him, Alayne. I am the Lord of the Eyrie, and I forbid it." He sounded as if he were about to cry. "You should marry me instead. We could sleep in the same bed every night, and you could read me stories." 

No man can wed me so long as my dwarf husband still lives somewhere in this world. Queen Cersei had collected the head of a dozen dwarfs, Petyr claimed, but none were Tyrion's. "Sweetrobin, you must not say such things. You are the Lord of the Eyrie and Defender of the Vale, and you must wed a highborn lady and father a son to sit in the High Hall of House Arryn after you are gone."

Robert wiped his nose. "But I want—"

She put a finger to his lips. "I know what you want, but it cannot be. I am no fit wife for you. I am bastard born."

"I don't care. I love you best of anyone. " 

You are such a little fool. "Your lords bannermen will care. Some call my father upjumped and ambitious. If you were to take me to wife, they would say that he made you do it, that it was no will of yours. The Lords Declarant might take arms against him once again, and he and I should both be put to death."

"I wouldn't let them hurt you!" Lord Robert said. "If they try I will make them all fly." His hand began to tremble.

Alayne stroked his fingers. "There, my Sweetrobin, be still now." When the shaking passed, she said, "You must have a proper wife, a truebornmaid of noble birth." 

"No. I want to marry you, Alayne."

Once your lady mother intended that very thing, but I was trueborn then, and noble. "My lord is kind to say so." Alayne smoothed his hair. Lady Lysa had never let the servants touch it, and after she had died Robert had suffered terrible shaking fits whenever anyone came near him with a blade, so it had been allowed to grow until it tumbled over his round shoulders and halfway down his flabby white chest. He does have pretty hair. If the gods are good and he lives long enough to wed, his wife will admire his hair, surely. That much she will love about him. "Any child of ours would be baseborn. Only a trueborn child of House Arryn can displace Ser Harrold as your heir. My father will find a proper wife for you, some highborn girl much prettier than me. You'll hunt and hawk together, and she'll give you her favor to wear in tournaments. Before long, you will have forgotten me entirely."

 

Sansa will take the place of the implied LF herself. Arya will love Gendry and SR will love Sansa, but what they want will not matter, more important things are at play, duty. Note the little joke, he'll marry a woman much more beautiful than Sansa, says Sansa, who will marry him to Arya. Also the argument for why LF can't marry Alayne to SR is the same as why Jon won't be able to just take the crown himself.

So Jon marries Arya to SR to be queen and Sansa marries SR to Arya to be king. A Princess of the North marries into the IT as was bandied about a few times but never occurred. Jon consolidates his conquest south with marriage as his hero the Young Dragon failed to do. And as Cregan did in his conquest of KL.

And he has a similar pact to Torrhen. When SR and Arya take the Iron Throne Jon will kneel like Torrhen did, give up the KITN title and swear fealty to the Iron Throne, thus consolidating the realm again behind a king that's going to fight TWFTD, which was all he wanted. Back to Sharra and her boy-king son Ronnel Arryn. Sharra and Torrhen Stark married their children to each other, Ronnel to a daughter of Torrhen Stark. Rhaenys made the match for the purpose of knitting the new realm together, and there was much protest and tooing and froing before eventually agreement was reached. Rhaenys is probably foreshadowing Dany in this case, meaning Dany is likely going to push hard for this match, having grown up and caring more about the good of the realm than her ruling it. Otherwise Rhaenys is just more Sansa foreshadowing.

From the character arc and thematic angle. Jon forces Arya to marry into the throne against her will, because that's what the realm requires. It's kill the boy let the man be born stuff, turning ice, traces of warmth fleeing. It's Jon growing up and becoming a big boy with big boy issues like realm peace and stability and survival against the zombie apocalypse.

It's wild child Arya growing up, foregoing her freedoms and returning to her duty to become queen so that she can do the type of justice that Cersei didn't which turned Arya and Westeros into victims, which her arc has been a first hand account of.

The ending scenario is a weak Robert Arryn as king between the queen and mother of his children, the strong willed Arya, and on the other side the woman he loves, equally as strong and determined Sansa. The two will fight over his ear and between them control of the realm. The Marge - Tommen - Cersei situation had it ever been fully realised.

On ‎4‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 4:43 AM, The Bastards Giant Friend said:

A story is only meant to go where it does go.

Consider the show, 1 to 1 for the books in the first season then drift away and are now totally off the reservation. You could have predicted Joff tried to have Bran killed, and you'd be wrong, because they just couldn't be arsed backing up their narrative plots with conclusions. Apply that here, IF GRRM decided he just wanted it finished or otherwise changed course, no-one could account for that, that is all I mean.

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16 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Just out of curiosity how sure are you any of your theories will happen? 30%? 70%?

I think a better question is what % is it that the OP is fucking with us.  I can't tell from the tone, but I am going high at 90%.  Even tinfoil hat wearers usually have some sort of evidence.  Also, I have seen him tell other people their theories are crazy.  

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41 minutes ago, Unchained said:

I think a better question is what % is it that the OP is fucking with us.  I can't tell from the tone, but I am going high at 90%.  Even tinfoil hat wearers usually have some sort of evidence.  Also, I have seen him tell other people their theories are crazy.  

As I said in the OP, if you want anything explained ask, but arguing the points was not my purpose in making this thread and it would be too long a single post (and I lose interest in trying) to detail all points.

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16 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Just out of curiosity how sure are you any of your theories will happen? 30%? 70%?

 

15 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

0%

 

11 hours ago, LindsayLohan said:

I agree.

 

8 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

Dude I don't really think any of those "crackpots" are even crackpots. I think this is simply a new story. This is pure fan fiction, that is NO WAY any of those things happening.

 

14 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

@chrisdaw please write a book series (not ASOIAF fan fiction) because I'd probably read the shit out of it. 

57 minutes ago, Foot_Of_The_King said:

Seconded

 

44 minutes ago, Unchained said:

I think a better question is what % is it that the OP is fucking with us.  I can't tell from the tone, but I am going high at 90%.  Even tinfoil hat wearers usually have some sort of evidence.  Also, I have seen him tell other people their theories are crazy.  

 

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