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Who is Haldon Halfmaester?

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Sorry if this (I'm certain it has) been discussed before, But who is Haldon Halfmaester, really? So much speculation goes into Lemore's identity but I never see any questions about Haldon. Even when Tyrion is naming the "secret identities" of the pole boat, Haldon is never mentioned.

Quote

"He had sniffed out the truth beneath the dyed blue hair of Griff and Young Griff easily enough, and Yandry and Ysilla seemed to be no more than they claimed to be, whilst Duck was somewhat less. Lemore though... Who is she, really?" 

ADWD - Tyrion VI

Tyrion mentions the entire pole boat crew except Haldon. Why is that? Is GRRM trying to take our focus off this smart/ out of place man? Is he someone that might have been important in pre GOT history? What does everyone here thing. Tinfoils are welcome.

Edited by Foot_Of_The_King

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First one to say "Howland Reed" gets a smack to the head. 

I think Haldon is just Haldon. There really aren't any good candidates for who he could be based on the history we know. Just how Duck is merely Duck. I do think he could very well be working for the Hightowers or the Citadel in some way though. But that's tinfoily stuff; no proof for it either.  

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Haldon will betray young griff if he gets too powerful.  Since AC one of the main motivations of the measters has been either getting rid of dragon lords, or keeping them in check.  

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Lets say he is just Haldon. Where did he come from? Was he kicked out of the Citadel? How did Varys/Illyrio find him, and why rope him into this scheme? Just alot of questions....

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The Order of the Green Hand affirms he is the previous Master from Winterfell, who apparently died or disappeared around Robert´s Rebellion.

Of course, their theory depends on Aegon being the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar, who was sent to Varys by Ned, which I don´t buy. But if you do, they make a compelling case for it.

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For the first time, I actually think a secret identity here is likely if not necessary. Say he's just Haldon, a random guy who got kicked out of the Citadel. What stops him from going to Robert/Cersei/whatever and blabbing about Aegon being alive in exchange for a lordship or gold? What made Varys and Illyrio trust him so much as to let him in on this super secret mission? 

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Walys Flowers was the maester at Winterfell who disappeared around the same time as Lyanna.  He is the son of an archmaester and a noble woman.... so half-a-maester.

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33 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

For the first time, I actually think a secret identity here is likely if not necessary. Say he's just Haldon, a random guy who got kicked out of the Citadel. What stops him from going to Robert/Cersei/whatever and blabbing about Aegon being alive in exchange for a lordship or gold? What made Varys and Illyrio trust him so much as to let him in on this super secret mission? 

Thank you. All of this, and the fact Tyrion left him out of his musing makes me super suspicious. 

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1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

He wears his hair pulled back and knotted behind his head, like the high sparrow and sometimes Ned.

And Barbrey Dustin!

Sometimes I wonder if Haldon is more people than Rhaegar. They are both very talented individuals.

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Rhaegar, being skinchanged by Bloodraven, who is in turn a puppet of future-Bran.

For serious, though, his description sort of matches the "Stark look", with the thin face and grey eyes. 

The hair knot is also not unique to Ned Stark - Lady Dustin wears a "widow's knot". Maybe William Dustin? He was at the ToJ, so if we're looking for any of those guys to re-enter the story, he's a candidate. Lady Dustin's prominence in the plot also rises in DwD, so it would be very clever of GRRM to place her supposedly dead husband at this point in the timeline. And for added irony, Lady Dustin hates the Maesters.

Edit: beaten!

Edited by cgrav

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7 minutes ago, Foot_Of_The_King said:

Thank you. All of this, and the fact Tyrion left him out of his musing makes me super suspicious. 

My (admittedly crackpot) guess as to Haldon's identity goes back to this comment by Stannis: 

Quote

"Daemon Blackfyre, the brothers Toyne, the Vulture King, Grand Maester Hareth . . . traitors have always paid with their lives."

Well, I'm a firm subscriber to a couple of theories: one, that Aegon is a Blackfyre, and two, that Septa Lemore is Wenda the White Fawn. So:

- Aegon would naturally represent Daemon Blackfyre, the last descendant of his line.

- Wenda AKA Lemore would serve as a connection to Simon Toyne (some people think he might be the father of the child Lemore seemed to have had at some point).

- Then Duck could stand for the Vulture King. (Because both ducks and vultures are birds, I guess? I don't know)

- And finally Haldon would be connected in some way to this Grand Maester Hareth, whoever he is. But I bet he's an enemy of the Targ regime too. 

Basically, I think pretty much everyone on the Shy Maid (barring Duck, maybe) knows Aegon is not really a Targ...and that's why they support him. 

55 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Walys Flowers was the maester at Winterfell who disappeared around the same time as Lyanna.  He is the son of an archmaester and a noble woman.... so half-a-maester.

The problem with this is that Walys contributed to the downfall of the Targs. Why then would he be contributing with Dany's return to Westeros now, especially since she's bringing dragons, which the Citadel apparently hates? 

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1 hour ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

For the first time, I actually think a secret identity here is likely if not necessary. Say he's just Haldon, a random guy who got kicked out of the Citadel. What stops him from going to Robert/Cersei/whatever and blabbing about Aegon being alive in exchange for a lordship or gold? What made Varys and Illyrio trust him so much as to let him in on this super secret mission? 

I feel it is irrelevant whether he is well known or not (to the reader) for Varys to have a reason to trust him. If he is essentially a new character GRRM has complete freedom in his backstory. He will have a backstory, but I don't think it is essential that we have ever heard him mentioned before.

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21 minutes ago, Makk said:

I feel it is irrelevant whether he is well known or not (to the reader) for Varys to have a reason to trust him. If he is essentially a new character GRRM has complete freedom in his backstory. He will have a backstory, but I don't think it is essential that we have ever heard him mentioned before.

Maybe it's not that we've heard of him before but rather his affiliation with a person/group we are familiar with that can tie things together. I hate the idea that every character with a vague background has to have a secret identity, but I can't get over the fact that Tyrion mentioned everyone's potential "secret" but completely left out Haldon. It really seems something is there. 

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3 hours ago, Foot_Of_The_King said:

Sorry if this (I'm certain it has) been discussed before, But who is Haldon Halfmaester, really? So much speculation goes into Lemore's identity but I never see any questions about Haldon. Even when Tyrion is naming the "secret identities" of the pole boat, Haldon is never mentioned.

ADWD - Tyrion VI

Tyrion mentions the entire pole boat crew except Haldon. Why is that? Is GRRM trying to take our focus off this smart/ out of place man? Is he someone that might have been important in pre GOT history? What does everyone here thing. Tinfoils are welcome.

As has been mentioned, Haldon can't be just a random guy because the conspirators could never be certain of his loyalty. Also, he can't have any Blackfyre ties. Even if Aegon is a Blackfyre (and I seriously doubt he is), JonCon would never trust a Blackfyre loyalist. Therefore, Haldon would have to be someone who has proven his TARGARYEN loyalty. This conversation is between Brienne and the current maester of the Dunfort (AFFC - Chapter 9):
 

Quote

 

"And the Hollards?"

"Attainted and destroyed," said the maester. "I was forging my chain at the Citadel when this happened, but I have read the accounts of their trials and punishments. Ser Jon Hollard the Steward was wed to Lord Denys's sisterand died with his wife, as did their young son, who was half-Darklyn. Robin Hollard was a squire, and when the king was seized he danced around him and pulled his beard. He died upon the rack. Ser Symon Hollard was slain by Ser Barristan during the king's escape. The Hollard lands were taken, their castle torn down, their villages put to the torch. As with the Darklyns, House Hollard was extinguished."

 

GRRM has said that all betrayals will be revealed. Since it appears that all the people who could have told the Darklyns' side of the story were killed, I wondered how GRRM could reveal the betrayal behind Duskendale. Then I noticed the bolded. The Darklyn's maester is a person who would have been close enough to the Darklyns to tell their side of the story and he is missing. We aren't told the maester was killed, since as a "servant" he would have had to support the family. Since the Defiance happened ~25 years ago, the maester's age could run from about 45 to dead. So far everything I stated is a texturally based fact. There was a maester at the Dunfort during Defiance, who we don't what happened to. Everything after this point is my speculation.

I speculate that when Barristan rescued Aerys he had the help of an insider. I speculate that this insider was the maester assigned to the Darklyns. The maester hoped to keep the whole family from being destroyed by helping to get the king out. I think this was actually the agreement between the maester and Barristan. Instead, Aerys took a terrible revenge on the Darklyns and Hollards. Barristan was able to save only Dontos. The maester who helped Barristan lost his chain for betraying his "family". Since the Citadel needs the families to trust them, they couldn't let such a disastrous betrayal go unpunished. Therefore, I believe Haldon is the now chainless maester of the Dunfort during the Defiance.

ETA: The reason Tyrion doesnt' speculate about Haldon is because he learned who Haldon was when he won the bet and Haldon told him was the whole group was about.

 

Edited by bent branch

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5 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Jon Snow is the child of Rhaegar and Haldon (as Lady Dustin). Just gotta read it out.

You just blew my fucking mind. Personally I think that Rhaegar + Rhaegar = Rhaegar

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I'm surprised no ones thrown out leyton Hightower's name yet. He's always seemed like the most likely candidate to me

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OK, I came to this topic with the full intention of deciding Haldon is just Haldon. But the talk of the Darklyns and Hollards has given me an idea. I do not buy that he is the Maester of either house because we are told he is only Half trained hence Halfmaester. But I do think these two houses can explain why a boy at the Citadel might run away to Essos and end up with a bunch of other Westerosi exiles. I propose that Haldon is simply a son of either house Hollard or Darklyn who was studying at the Citadel when the defiance happened and afraid for his life after hearing of what King Aerys had done to his family he snuck away one night despite not having finished his chain and took a ship for Essos. As a student of the citadel he should have been safe from the Kings ire, but how could anyone trust this King who is rapidly looking to be somewhat unhinged to abide by this social ettiquete.

So Haldon Hollard or Haldon Darklyn. I think.  

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