HBO confirms on working on four potential spinoffs of GOT

[Meera of Tarth]

7 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

Werthead speculates at his Wertzone that it could be Daniel Abraham, a long-time good friend of George who also writes the ASoIaF comic books and has recent TV experience from The Expanse. I thinks it's a very good guess.

This. I also think he could be the writer.....

[Gaz0680]

3 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

The Conquest would not be a particularly interesting setting for a drama.  The Targaryens curbstomp everybody, other than the Dornish, and Dorne is super unpopular with TV audiences.

I disagree. The conquest could be a potentially fascinating setting for a drama. 

We know some basic details and outcomes of the conquest (which is the problem EVERY potential prequel series has), but unlike Robert's Rebellion, there's also a hell of a lot we don't know and the HOW it comes about could be really interesting.

For a start, while Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya would be the clear primary characters, you would still have a cast of many supporting characters that could have their own subplots and stories as well. (Orys Baratheon - Aegons best friend, King of the North Torrhen Stark and his advisors, King Harren Hoare and his sons, King of the Reach Mern Gardener, etc).

There's also plenty of opportunity for politics. Aegon didn't simply try to kill all the current nobility and then rule what was left. He gave them a chance to kneel. His sisters also seemed involved in some politicking, though we don't have specific details.

We could be given a real insight into how things operated and the various conflicts that went on when there were seven separate kingdoms before Aegon's conquest and how the conquest happened. Lots of potential.

 

[TheRevanchist]

If Daniel Abraham is involved, I would be super-excited about it. Him - together with Abercrombie - is the closest thing we have to Martin in the genre.

With Dunk and Egg, and Robert's Rebellion, this is what I would like to see:

1) The fall of Valyria, followed by how Targaryans set to Westeros.

2) The Long Night (never going to happen, too far away and too mysterious)

3) The Dance of Dragons - budget here needs to be absurd 

 

 

 

[aFeastForDragons]

14 hours ago, Dragonsbone said:

Actually I felt quite different. What I read was, that he broke his word when he stated that he won't be involved in any other project until winds is done. So bye, bye winds....

If anybody thinks Winds is coming out in the next 2-3 years they need to read this blog post. George is going to be heavily involved in all these shows. I'd confidently say that this is it, done, no more books, just prequel shows and expanded universe books. 

 

5 prequels? I think HBO are thinking way too big here! I am excited. Hopefully something completely away from the books that we haven't seen before so its new to everyone. 

[Colonel Green]

55 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

There's also plenty of opportunity for politics. Aegon didn't simply try to kill all the current nobility and then rule what was left. He gave them a chance to kneel.

He accepted their surrender after crushing them militarily.  Not really that dramatic.  The Targaryens were not seriously challenged anywhere other than Dorne.

[Robert Baratheon's hammer]

Although we know MOST of Robert's Rebellion story I would still like to see it on TV for maybe 2 seasons. There just so many key enthralling moments in this, from the disappearance of Lyanna to the trial of Brandon and Rickard to the Battle gulltown, Battle of Ashford, Battle of the Bells, The Trident and the Sack of Kingslanding. The mad kings madness to the marriages at Riverun while I wouldn't mind seeing the siege of storms end too.

One of the things we haven't seen/read much of in the Rebellion is Lyanna or Rhaegar perspective. What were they doing for all those months? 

Of course I would love to see Robert in his Prime on the battlefield but I'd also like to learn more about his character, I think he's a little more complicated than just a drunken womanizing warrior. 

I'd start it from the tourney of Harrenhall and work it from there. You'd get a glimpse of the rift between Rhaegar and the Mad King the potential southern ambitions of Rickard stark. This would be in the first few episodes to give the audience some backstory of what the situation was at that time.

You have to remember that many Game of Thrones aren't book-readers and won't know as much about it unless of course the show decide to spoil some of it in the coming seasons. Most ASOIAF readers enjoyed the first 4 seasons of GOT even though we already knew the story.

[Robert Baratheon's hammer]

Haha just read GRRM ''Not A Blog'' and Robert's rebellion won't be done as all will be revealed in the books. While neither will Dunk and Egg.

Still want to see both of them as a series but you can't always get what you want i guess.

[Leonardo]

53 minutes ago, aFeastForDragons said:

If anybody thinks Winds is coming out in the next 2-3 years they need to read this blog post. George is going to be heavily involved in all these shows. I'd confidently say that this is it, done, no more books, just prequel shows and expanded universe books. 

 

5 prequels? I think HBO are thinking way too big here! I am excited. Hopefully something completely away from the books that we haven't seen before so its new to everyone. 

Most will never become actual shows. They are effectively competing at this point and I doubt they will run two shows from the same brand simultaneously.

 

Some of these may not even be shows, but one off mini series or even a two part HBO film. 

[HouseVelaryon]

A series about the Dance of the Dragons would be amazing! It's filled with amazing characters, possibly/arguably even better than the fantastic GOT characters. You have a rogue prince in Daemon Targaryen, a strong female lead in Rhaenyra Targaryen, you get the Hightowers, Cregan Stark, Tyland Lannister, "Loyal" Addam Velaryon, Alyn Oakenfist, Criston Cole, Aemond Targaryen, King Aegon II, and the Sea Snake! It would probably be like a 2/3 season show at most but a shorter series allows for bigger actors in the roles. I, for one, would love to see Timothy Dalton as Lord Corlys. 

[The Dragon has three heads]

All are prequels, so that makes me actually happy about it.

The inclusion of the expanse writer is V. Interesting.

[RhaenysBee]

Here's an article about the potential spin-offs. I don't know how reliable this is, but... I don't see how they are going to get any viewers if the spinoff is neither about Robert's Rebellion nor dunk and egg. I really really don't see how any of this is going to work. 

*not impressed* 

[Newstar]

1 hour ago, RhaenysB said:

Here's an article about the potential spin-offs. I don't know how reliable this is, but... I don't see how they are going to get any viewers if the spinoff is neither about Robert's Rebellion nor dunk and egg. I really really don't see how any of this is going to work. 

*not impressed* 

Yeah, me neither, although I think you can blame HBO for passing on Dunk & Egg.

I think GRRM is overestimating the appeal of the Westeros universe outside ASOIAF to a mass audience--and I think it's safe to say that the board posters here are not representative of that wider audience--but who knows? People may still watch it. People watched the Star Wars prequels even though they were steaming hot garbage.

[Leonardo]

Dance of the dragons is ten times as interesting as RR....

[RhaenysBee]

46 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Yeah, me neither, although I think you can blame HBO for passing on Dunk & Egg.

I think GRRM is overestimating the appeal of the Westeros universe outside ASOIAF to a mass audience--and I think it's safe to say that the board posters here are not representative of that wider audience--but who knows? People may still watch it. People watched the Star Wars prequels even though they were steaming hot garbage.

Star Wars prequels reached a whole new generation of fans becasue they were made 20 years after the last original movie. GoT spinoffs don't have a new generation to catch, all they can rely on is the general GoT audience. Also, Star Wars did a direct prequel that led up to the events of the original films, they brought back old characters, they created buildup for existing storylines. HBO/GRRM/whoever came up with this believes they can sell a story with approximately zero connection to the original plot and literally zero returning characters. They are counting on the average GoT viewer to set out on a new adventure that's set in the same cities from GoT the name of which they could barely remember even when they were watching GoT, features a whole bunch of new characters that have little to nothing to do with that bunch of characters half of whose name they couldn't remember when they were watching GoT, and maybe has cool CGI dragons? 

I'll be really impressed if they can make it happen, but "Hey people? this is the same world as GoT" doesn't sound like a strong enough UPS to me. I read the books and I'm still not interested in any spinoff that's not Robert's Rebellion or maybe the Aegon's conquest. 

And I would rather not say anything about the correctness of grrm's various estimations... 

34 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Dance of the dragons is ten times as interesting as RR....

That's really up to personal opinion and preference. Show me a fan who only watched the show who even knows what the dance of the dragons is. H

[Newstar]

38 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Dance of the dragons is ten times as interesting as RR....

That is a matter of opinion.

I for one thought the DOTD was a big yawn. None of the characters were particularly sympathetic, even the ones who were supposed to be. The Targs came off like a bunch of petty, destructive assholes who deserved to lose their dragons and their lives. A really good writer might be able to salvage something worth watching from the DOTD, but I wouldn't bet on it.

The show is also going to run into huge problems in adapting the DOTD, since even GOT at the height of its budget can only afford four or so dragon scenes per season (not episodes, scenes).

9 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

HBO/GRRM/whoever came up with this believes they can sell a story with approximately zero connection to the original plot and literally zero returning characters. They are counting on the average GoT viewer to set out on a new adventure that's set in the same cities from GoT the name of which they could barely remember even when they were watching GoT, features a whole bunch of new characters that have little to nothing to do with that bunch of characters half of whose name they couldn't remember when they were watching GoT, and maybe has cool CGI dragons? 

Yes. It sounds like the prequels are predicated on the assumption that fans will find anything set in Westeros--or even beyond Westeros--just as fascinating as they found GOT, when it has none of GOT's characters, nothing to do with GOT's plots, and maybe not even any dragons. That seems like a huge assumption to me.

[Duranaparthur]

Hope fully, the prequel or spinoff that makes it is one that follows the keys to the first Season of GOT's success; strong character work and smart drama. Because it may be accurate to say that the genre and setting may not appeal to mainstream audiences in-and-of-itself, BUT! in the last decade we have seen that a strong series concept and strong writing can make almost any TV series that survives a first season with positive feedback and decent numbers can explode. I mean, period dramas about the Vikings invading England don't really have people clambering for them base don concept alone, but we've got History Channel's Vikings and BBC's The Last Kingdom.

GOT didn't take off because of ice zombies and dragons; it took off because it made the mainstream audience care for characters who you knew would have to deal with ice zombies and dragons. Subplots like Arya's training or Tynion's capture had nothing to do with the fantasy elements, but gave you protagonists you liked facing challenges you wanted to see them resolve. And because they made all the characters fascinating with Dany and Drogo's relationship or the tragicomic dialogue between Cersei and Robert, you even cared about antagonists and side-characters. The one thing you can't afford is to waste good actors and concepts on underwhelming storytelling and writing with characters you either don't worry about, like how King Arthur: Legend of the Sword did, or characters you don't like, similar to how Starz's Camelot did.

Whichever successor series they make needs a main protagonist the audience can both cheer for and worry about, like Ned Stark, and then pump up the ensemble with equally great characters and conflicts. RR has too many known factors and known fates: even Unsullied with short attention spans are going to realize that every Stark between Ned and Winterfell is going to die, that Robert's going to be king, and that the hopeful little swordsman joining the Kingsguard is going to have a nasty secret involving his sister. There's high drama there, but a lot less tension and suspense. On the other hand, if they did something like the Blackfyre Rebellions, the Unsullied don't know anything beyond the Targaryens surviving the war.

[Dragonsbone]

When you talk about television, there are some very important issues that you have to consider. 

1. Ratings are EVERYTHING. Even if a show does not gain big profits at the beginning or in worst case make losses, it does not matter for a certain period as long as the ratings are high. High ratings for a pay tv as HBO mean that you sell more abonements to private households, thus reaching a bigger part of the peer-group. Even if the costs for a series (e.g. Dance of the dragons) are high, it does not matter as long as the ratings are high. Even if they don't make profit with the show, they gain a bigger group of consumers for their other programs. They just substitute their gains to other programs. Some shows are just a cliff-hanger to get people to buy the HBO abonement. 

2. The peer-group: To gain big ratings, it is important to reach a huge part of people, from all across the world. If you produce a big show, it is not enough to reach the hardcore fans, since they will probably watch it anyway. They do not matter in terms of strategic aspects. They are a constant in their planings. Also they are way to small, to be concerned. GoT is not successfull because of people like me. It is successfull because of people like my parents, grandparents, brother, friends and colleagues. They do not read fantasy, they barely watched fantasy before. None of them has ever read ASOIAF. Some of them don't even know who GRRM is. But they have one thing in common: they surpass me by numbers in a huge amount. It is not profitable for HBO to concentrate on me or loose time and affort on me. Point here is: WE (the book readers) DO NOT MATTER.

3. The story must be made for non book readers. It must be a story that reaches the mass. GoT did not reached the mass because of its fantasy elements, but because the drama, characters and politics. Oh and Sex. HBO will use the same formula for the new show. As they always do. Not because they are stupid and uninspired. But because they specifically know very well how television works. Minimize the risk, maximize the ratings. 

Considering the arguements obove, some shows that some book readers wish are just wishes. Dunk and Egg??? If you try to sell this story to producers, and you have not made a name in television, they will call the security and you will be baned for life from the building. Even with the success of GoT, there is no way that this show will reach masses and be successfull. Just imagine the "Everyday Joe" switching to this show and hoping he will get something similar to GoT. This show would not even pass the pilot episode. And please take into consideration that I am not talking about myself and my wishes. I am just trying to explain how the business of television works (trust me, I am speaking out of experience). The only possibility for a Dunk and Egg would be if GRRM would sign a contract where he is the producer and take all the costs and risks and sells it to HBO, while HBO is allowed to put it in their programe at whatever time they want and quit it whenever they want. No sane human in the world would sign such a contract. 

I strongly believe, that HBO right now is overestimating the success of GoT in respect to his successor-show. I do not believe that the spinn-offs will be successfull, whichever spinn-off they choose. The mass has one big flaw: they are fed up pretty fast. 

 

[Newstar]

1 hour ago, Duranaparthur said:

Whichever successor series they make needs a main protagonist the audience can both cheer for and worry about, like Ned Stark, and then pump up the ensemble with equally great characters and conflicts. RR has too many known factors and known fates: even Unsullied with short attention spans are going to realize that every Stark between Ned and Winterfell is going to die, that Robert's going to be king, and that the hopeful little swordsman joining the Kingsguard is going to have a nasty secret involving his sister. There's high drama there, but a lot less tension and suspense.

People gobble up historical dramas despite knowing full well what's going to happen to everyone involved. It's the power of the story that matters, not knowing the ultimate fates of everyone involved.

 

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Hope fully, the prequel or spinoff that makes it is one that follows the keys to the first Season of GOT's success; strong character work and smart drama. (...)I mean, period dramas about the Vikings invading England don't really have people clambering for them base don concept alone, but we've got History Channel's Vikings and BBC's The Last Kingdom.

When GOT came out, there weren't many shows like GOT, so GOT could flourish without much competition. However, thanks in no small part to the success of GOT, other shows, such as the shows you have mentioned, have sprung up. Who's going to watch a GOT spinoff when they can get their drama fix from Vikings, Outlander, Poldark, Wolf Hall, Medici, The White Princess, The Last Kingdom, etc. etc.? Any GOT spinoff would be competing against shows like these, and a lot of them are likely better than anything a spinoff writer could come up with in the Westeros universe.

 

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GOT didn't take off because of ice zombies and dragons; it took off because it made the mainstream audience care for characters who you knew would have to deal with ice zombies and dragons.

Again, I disagree. Strip away the ice zombies, dragons and other magical trappings, and GOT is just your run of the mill medieval story, ultimately no different from other medieval drama offerings. Remember that when it came to drama, Rome had compelling writing, great characters, fascinating political intrigue, high production values, lavish costumes, and excellent acting, but it failed to achieve GOT's success, even if it may have been a better show than GOT all things considered. 

As they say, you gotta have a gimmick: GOT's gimmick is ice zombies and dragons. As great as the characters may be, it was the ice zombies and dragons which set GOT apart from your standard medieval story.

Now, I agree that ice zombies or dragons won't save a shitty story with unsympathetic, uninteresting characters--which is why I think a DOTD spinoff is doomed--but they will set a spinoff apart from being essentially indistinguishable from the glut of medieval drama currently on the market. The GOT brand will only go so far.

[Tifani]

6 minutes ago, Newstar said:

 

Now, I agree that ice zombies or dragons won't save a shitty story with unsympathetic, uninteresting characters--which is why I think a DOTD spinoff is doomed--but they will set a spinoff apart from being essentially indistinguishable from the glut of medieval drama currently on the market. The GOT brand will only go so far.

well i think rhaenyra is plenty interesting. she's like a more sympathetic and likeable cersei, decaffeinated cersei lol. 

[Tifani]

On 5/15/2017 at 1:25 AM, Colonel Green said:

Even apart from knowing the ending, my other issue with the idea for Robert's Rebellion as a series is that, considering that one of the biggest arguments for it is the ability to use characters the audience is already familiar with, most of them don't do much of anything (people always talk about casting a young Cersei, for instance, but Cersei does nothing at all in that story other than show up at the end and marry Robert; same with Catelyn, whose only role is marrying Ned; Lyanna, after disappearing, spends the entire war hidden away in a tower and then dies giving birth, something we've already seen dramatized on GOT).

yes good point. one of the major cons of a robert's rebellion series was that the women characters basically have nothing to do and are mostly just there to serve as love interests for male characters of ned, jaime, robert, rhaegar etc. i'm sure that was a point that was thought of when dismissing the idea of that as a spinoff.