Artificially fixed Nitrogen is likely hugely damaging to the environment... but we need it to feed our massive and growing human population...

[Altherion]

1 hour ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said:

There is finite agricultural land on this planet. Earth does not have the capacity to sustain anywhere near the amount of human beings present on it right now. Not even close.

Thomas Malthus called from the end of the 18th century and he wants his argument back.

More seriously, Earth clearly does have the capacity to sustain the current human population or else the latter would be decreasing due to starvation right now. In fact, we can do this despite a substantial amount of food being wasted. This happens due to food being literally thrown away (here's an article about the US), due to certain countries producing and eating more meat than is good for us by any reasonable measure and due to using food for things that either already are or very shortly will be superseded by better alternatives (e.g. ethanol). There's a lot of optimization available here should it become necessary.

[all swedes are racist]

Am I destroying The Earth by storing My Preicous urine in jugs under my Bed??!

[Isalie]

No, that is a practice we should all embrace.

[DunderMifflin]

8 hours ago, Altherion said:

Thomas Malthus called from the end of the 18th century and he wants his argument back.

More seriously, Earth clearly does have the capacity to sustain the current human population or else the latter would be decreasing due to starvation right now. In fact, we can do this despite a substantial amount of food being wasted. This happens due to food being literally thrown away (here's an article about the US), due to certain countries producing and eating more meat than is good for us by any reasonable measure and due to using food for things that either already are or very shortly will be superseded by better alternatives (e.g. ethanol). There's a lot of optimization available here should it become necessary.

It still relies on an assumption that all the land currently being farmed and refarmed over and over again will stay fertile enough to keep producing forever.

[Swordfish]

16 hours ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said:

There is finite agricultural land on this planet. Earth does not have the capacity to sustain anywhere near the amount of human beings present on it right now. Not even close. So, either the vastly overpopulated countries face starvation now and their population decreases, or we look for short-term solutions, destroy more of our land to establish more agriculture, provide even more food so the population can increase EVEN MORE, and we all starve. Do I want to see scores of people simply die off? No. But neither do I want to see us destroy this entire earth over something so preventable.

And yes, the prosperity of my own family and descendants is much more of a concern to me than somebody else's on the other side of the globe. Of course it is. Why would it not be? My country has spent decades supporting impoverished nations around the world, mainly through supplying food and water. We haven't ignored those in need. We have helped. And now the situation has grown out of control. If you spend more time worrying about everybody on this planet before yourself, then you are going to end up fucked over. It is the reality of the situation.

The fact of the matter is, we cannot help everybody. We cannot completely cure hunger. Not with the population level we have. It is not sustainable. If you think we can, then I admire your optimism and your kindness at wanting to help your fellow man, I sincerely do. Virtually every global issue we currently face has its roots in overpopulation, and I'm sorry, but until the number of human beings falls well under one billion, we are going to keep facing these issues.

You're operating from a bunch of flawed assumptions here, but even if you weren't,  I don't think it's all that reasonable to consider it 'lucky' for billions of people currently alive to start starving so that some hypothetical descendants of yours might have a better life.

If you're so concerned about overpopulation, why would you even be considering adding more descendants to the mix?  The earth doesn't need them, right?

[Rippounet]

19 hours ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said:

The fact of the matter is, we cannot help everybody. We cannot completely cure hunger. Not with the population level we have. It is not sustainable.

This is factually incorrect. Just one random link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-holt-gimenez/world-hunger_b_1463429.html

Quote

Hunger is caused by poverty and inequality, not scarcity. For the past two decades, the rate of global food production has increased faster than the rate of global population growth. The world already produces more than 1 ½ times enough food to feed everyone on the planet. That’s enough to feed 10 billion people, the population peak we expect by 2050. But the people making less than $2 a day — most of whom are resource-poor farmers cultivating unviably small plots of land — can’t afford to buy this food.

There are many many issues because of overpopulation, but contrary to popular belief, hunger isn't at the top of the list. At least, not for the reasons one might assume.

[maarsen]

Back to the original posting. Legumes are becoming a major part of the crops grown in the Canadian prairies. The nest thing about legumes is that they fix their own nitrogen lessening the need for nitrate fertilizers. Also as the Lobster says, store your pee. That is also a good source of nitrates for the fields. 

[Swordfish]

1 hour ago, maarsen said:

Back to the original posting. Legumes are becoming a major part of the crops grown in the Canadian prairies. The nest thing about legumes is that they fix their own nitrogen lessening the need for nitrate fertilizers. Also as the Lobster says, store your pee. That is also a good source of nitrates for the fields. 

But... what will the canadian paleo dieters do?  I mean, besides talking about crossfit all the time?

[felice]

On 9/05/2017 at 7:21 AM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

How many people who live on basic will be able to afford CAD/CAM programs and 3d-printers in the first place?

You can get free CAD/CAM software now, and it will only get better if open source programmers don't need day jobs. And in a few years, we should be able to print as many 3D-printers as we need with 3D-printers

[TrueMetis]

Let's not forget increased automation will see a decrease in costs for damn near everything. A basic income that only pays for food shelter and medical aid now will pay for a lot more in the future. And a lot of entertainment stuff will become damn near free. Personally the day basic income becomes a thing I'm probably fucking off back to the ocean side with a guitar and some scuba gear in summer and to the mountain with a snowboard in winter. If other people have a problem with that, well fuck'em it's their problem. If they feel they need to work to have fulfilling lives than that's a problem they have to sort out for themselves. Don't fuck the rest of us over.

[felice]

9 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Personally the day basic income becomes a thing I'm probably fucking off back to the ocean side with a guitar and some scuba gear in summer

One thing that does remain limited in a UBI utopia is space. We can't all have beachfront summer homes unless we put massive skyscrapers along the entire coastline of the planet, which I don't think is really optimal. Though it should be possible for anyone who wants to to take the occasional vacation by the seaside, rationed according to demand.

[Larry of the Lawn]

47 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Let's not forget increased automation will see a decrease in costs for damn near everything. A basic income that only pays for food shelter and medical aid now will pay for a lot more in the future. And a lot of entertainment stuff will become damn near free. Personally the day basic income becomes a thing I'm probably fucking off back to the ocean side with a guitar and some scuba gear in summer and to the mountain with a snowboard in winter. If other people have a problem with that, well fuck'em it's their problem. If they feel they need to work to have fulfilling lives than that's a problem they have to sort out for themselves. Don't fuck the rest of us over.

Yes, this.  And there's plenty of room beneath the hammock on the beach for a urine jug or three.

[TrueMetis]

39 minutes ago, felice said:

One thing that does remain limited in a UBI utopia is space. We can't all have beachfront summer homes unless we put massive skyscrapers along the entire coastline of the planet, which I don't think is really optimal. Though it should be possible for anyone who wants to to take the occasional vacation by the seaside, rationed according to demand.

True.