Star Wars Novels/Graphical Novels 2

[Derfel Cadarn]

5 hours ago, IlyaP said:

The authorial intent of George Lucas, at least, was that the empire was - drum rolls please! - the USA.

 

Yeah. The ewoks were inspired partly by the Vietcong

[Werthead]

10 hours ago, IlyaP said:

Here here. 

Stover's other Star Wars books are also extremely excellent. His Revenge of the Sith novelisation continues receiving praise for for its excellence. 

...And it occurs to me - despite the Disney buyout, some books are...trans-canon? The novelisations of the movies are still canon despite being published pre-buyout. @Werthead, what the heck do we even call that? Is trans-canon - a word I completely made up - the best word to use? Is there a better term you've come across you could suggest?

Schroedinger's Canon.

The status of the novelizations and The Old Republic video game (and by extension the Knights of the Old Republic series) remains uncertain because no-one's made a ruling on them yet.

[IlyaP]

10 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Schroedinger's Canon.

You sir, deserve the highest of high fives for that brilliant term. 

I am *so* using that. It's *perfect*!

[Rhom]

If Trans-Canon were a thing... would JK Rowling hate it???

[Werthead]

On 8/2/2020 at 2:22 PM, IlyaP said:

You sir, deserve the highest of high fives for that brilliant term. 

I am *so* using that. It's *perfect*!

To be fair, that one already exists on TVTropes.

[C.T. Phipps]

Alphabet Squadron: Shadow Fall thoughts

1. I really liked Yrica's journey in this book despite the fact that it doesn't say much about her for a character. Her reaction to the discovery of her war crimes is fascinating as it's clear she's actually more upset that she's lost her job and maybe her friends than she is about the fact she's now known to have murdered billions. It makes me wonder if Yrica has some serious mental problems (that make her less empathic) but this isn't portrayed as something that makes her EVIL. Also, that she could just be THAT traumatized.

2. Even if she didn't have any mental problems beforehand, that's probably not the case after she had her mind thoroughly tortured by the Emperor's Observatory. It makes me wonder if it's just THAT haunted by the Dark Side of the Force or if Yrica is Force Sensitive.

3. Speaking of Force Sensitive, I wonder if we're meant to assume that Chass' vision of herself is actually something that would really happen or just an extension of her fears. Because it really is an interesting realization that she's terrified of living rather than dying. Dying gloriously prevents her from running into all the problems that many RL veterans have to struggle with like making a living or dealing with being forgotten.

4. I think the book did an interesting job of keeping the tension with the Children of the Empty Sun. You expect them to be revealed as an evil cult at any point, only for them to NOT be. The fact they're so nice and accepting of Blink after she admitted she's a Operation: Cinder member kind of underscores it as well as their belief both the Empire/Republic are the same. It's a pretty terrible worldview but it's just because....they're pacifists. Chass, as usual, shows her ingratitude by beating a helpless priest in the face because she refuses to believe he's on the level.

5. Chass being in a cult is an interesting bit of lore and helps underscore a lot of her issues even if it doesn't excuse them.

6. I like how Nath is a guy who just keeps failing upwards. A failed Imperial pilot and black marketeer, he's since become the hero of Troithe and also someone who has successfully avenged his squadron. It's interesting to see how this affects Wyl as he witnesses such a genuine jerk keep moving up and out. Then again, does it matter what kind of person Nath is if he really is helping fight the Empire?

7. I like Wyl wanting to make peace but it's also clear that he's deluding himself as I thinl Blink is as psychotic an Imperial as exists in Shadow Squadron. Sadly, he thinks he's in LOST STARS not a deconstructive science fiction rebuttal to those kind of works.

[C.T. Phipps]

INFERNO SQUAD REVIEW

4/5
STAR WARS: INFERNO SQUAD is the tie-in book to STAR WARS: BATTLEFRONT II by Christie Golden. I'm a huge Christie Golden fan and love her work with Warcaft, Ravenloft, Star Craft, and her work in the Fate of the Jedi series. I was hesitant to read this book, though, because I felt that the  Battlefront II game had been something of a disaster.

I didn't dislike the protagonists of the single player campaign, even wanted to see more about them, but cutting off a third of their campaign for DLC left their story feeling pretty unfinished. Also, I felt like the game had been falsely advertised since it had implied a full Imperial campaign but you only spent a little time as Inferno Squad before defecting to the Rebellion.

Even so, I've softened my opinion regarding Iden Versio and her team and really wish we'd get more ofd their adventures during the Imperial Era. One of the disappointments I had in the TIE Fighter series was that they barely had any time to establish characters for what could have been a solid ongoing series. One of the benefits of the old Legends universe was the fact that we were able to follow the continuing adventures of numerous smaller groups. It's why I love the current ongoing Doctor Aphra series as it reminds me of things like Knights of the Old Republic and Legacy.

The premise is that Iden Versio and her three Special Forces troopers are working for the Imperial Security Bureau. Iden is one of the few survivors of the Death Star, which automatically means she's a complete fanatic, and wants some payback for the destruction of the Imperial war machine. After some low-level missions planting bugs and being closer to spies than commandos, they're given the mission of infiltrating the Partisans that have been given a second wind after their near-destruction in the movie ROGUE ONE.

I've always liked the Partisans and am interested in seeing more of them in future supplements (presumably before now). They're the terrorists to the Rebel Alliance's freedom fighters. It was something only the Star Wars RPG ever dealt with before in Legends and only barely with things like the Justice Action Network and the Imperial Remnant (ironically).

One thing that real life has shown is that oppression doesn't make someone a good person, it just makes them oppressed. Plenty of people would fight against the Galactic Empire but engage in terrorism to do so. Putting up die-hard fascists like Inferno Squad against hardcore terrorists is an interesting premise even if it's darker take from Star Wars than we're used to.
Part of what I like about this novel is that it really shows the average Imperial is fully capable of doing unimaginable evil while not mentally engaging with it. Iden mourns her comrades on the Death Star while not really thinking about Alderaan (dismissing everyone who died there as rebels despite 99.999999% being noncombatants).

Iden's willing to go along with the Partisans making terrorist attacks against Imperial citizens because that's the mission and it's for the greater good. Finally, her biggest worry is that her mother will be disappointed in her due to having them fake her defection. They're tribalistic "Team Us vs. Team Them" and it's unfortunately all too realistic. The fact that being undercover screws with that sensibility just a little is well-done.

I wasn't quite sure what the mission objective was for Inferno Squadron because they could eliminate the Partistans at any time and they don't seem to be doing much to find out where the leak of Imperial information was. I did like the interactions between the squad as well as their differing views on the war as well as the Partisans. I was also surprised at the inclusion of a major character from The Clone Wars 3D series and was glad to see them use that bit of continuity.

In conclusion, I really liked this book and would like to see further adventures of Inferno Squad during the Galactic Civil War. I don't see it likely as happening but Disney should know that it has plenty of interesting characters that fans would love to read more about. Inferno Squad seems like a group that would be great to show up in the Galactic Civil War, blowing up Rebels and performing more missions. Admittedly, I wanted to see more of that in Battlefront II anyway.

[Rhom]

Just now, Mr Meeseeks said:

Sir, I made an account after lurking for years just to say how hard I laughed at this, and that I want it on a t shirt.

(Now I need to find an avatar)

Glad that I could draw you out!  Welcome to the board!

[Toth]

Well, well. I guess I should have posted here some time ago when I actually managed to finish the Thrawn trilogy. Now I'm already halfway through with "Spectre of the Past" and still have "Outbound Flight" and the first novel of the New Jedi Order series to take on after finishing Hand of Thrawn.

I must admit, this has been my first time really engaging with the old EU at face value. I know pretty much all the major plot points thanks to Wookiepedia crawls, but other than that my only direct contact with post-Endor canon was Dark Forces I and II and Empire at War Forces of Corruption, which basically was a huge EU theme park dropping Mara Jade, Thrawn, the Arc Hammer, Kyle Katarn etc. as playable characters into your lap without further explanation.

Knowing how reverred the Thrawn trilogy is, it was very interesting to read it. It is clear as a day that this predates the Prequel Trilogy. The "Clone Masters" are clearly treated as the bad guys of the Clone Wars and Palpatine stealing technology from their cloning facilities causes astonished reactions rather than a "Well, figures". The Clone Wars are also placed 30 years before Yavin, so quite a time before Luke was born, and the transition of the Republic into the Empire took a lot longer and happened quite some time after the war, with it being implied that its devastation made the galaxy more vulnerable to its takeover. I also found that one scene interesting where Leia expands upon her growing up with her mother on Alderaan. It seemed to imply that "Padmé" and Bail were a thing and that Anakin never knew of her pregnancy. Made me think that maybe they only had a small affair? I already like that idea better than randomly dying of heartbreak because Lucas had no idea what to do with her...

I also find it interesting to look at Thrawn with the knowledge of the accusation of being a Mary Sue being directed at him. There is a notable break in continuity between the first book and the rest. In the first book Thrawn has a low-key obsession with asserting dominance, what with shooting some natives into submission, committing genocide because he can't figure out some species' art, killing an ensign who didn't admit his mistake in a manner not too unlike Vader and sacrificing some TIE fighters to gauge an enemy's thinking pattern. The rest of the trilogy then shifted to highlight again and again that he totally isn't like Vader, is purely meritocratic and benevolent if you don't cross him and never sacrifices his troops if he can help it. At the same time as he keeps demonstrating his ability to without fail predict every move of his military enemies, he still keeps holding the idiot ball in regards to C'baoth who continuously shows him that he can't be trusted with a butter knife, but Thrawn refuses to discard him because he seems unwilling to accept that there are people who can't be controlled despite understanding their motivations.

Generally, the entire trilogy is great entertainment. What I really love is just how solid the world building is. While at its core it's a bunch of concurrent adventure stories, the galaxy it takes place in has a clear shape and history. There is Old Republic trivia in the form of legends, events and old rivavlries, at the same time the galaxy is evolving and changing its shape in reaction to the fall of the Empire. It has its share of flaws, yes. Fey'lya is unabashedly just an incompetent obstructionist politician, whose characterization begins and ends right there. The battle of Bilbringi in the last book is a rush-job that left me puzzled as to what exactly happened, given that it's just 5 pages scattered across numberous pages of Wayland adventure with pretty much all important events happening off-screen. I was also negatively surprised by Mara in the first book. She also seemed pretty one-note, what with being hostile to Luke but never even attempting to actually kill him like she said she wanted to. But I started to really like her by the time she crashed on Jomark, flattened the deranged Jedi and picked up Luke to bust her boss out of prison. That entire trip was so ridiculous, I absolutely loved it. That and her 'close enough' kill to silence the Emperor's voice in her head had me in stitches. She works especially great when paired with Luke's characterization as a super agreeable puppy who just shrugs and goes with whatever hijinks life throws at him. Someone who goes to ridiculous lengths to take out enemies non-lethally and only goes all out when cornered or allies are endangered. Someone meeting a crazy dark side user and his first instinct is to reach out to him, hoping to find a way to heal him. That's Luke Skywalker, Ladies and Gentlemen! The other characters are great as well, though I must admit that Han gets a bit of a backseat while Lando has significantly more time to shine. Even though I feel sorry, he never gets to keep his businesses alive, can he?

Still curious how it goes on from there. The timeskip to Hand of Thrawn seems to be a bit overly much. 10 years, huh? The Empire being down to 200 ships and having long run out of TIEs is sad to see. I'm also a bit puzzled as to why that 'decorative' bodyguard that appeared two times in the Thrawn Trilogy somehow warrants a main POV status (and is still in the same job, even). Also the beginning seemed a bit contrived about all characters who appeared during the Thrawn trilogy suddenly running into each other even before events happened that might have connected them again. That actually was something that I noticed during the Thrawn Trilogy itself at times (making the galaxy look ludicrously small), but never to this degree. Pelleaon having taken about 20 degrees in badass is a nice change though. Having an Imperial character uncovering a plot within the Empire, solely relying on other Imperial characters to do so, is a great change of pace.

[Ran]

Glad you enjoyed the trilogy! It really locked in my love of the Star Wars universe, at least as an idea as expressed in the original trilogy. I didn't really bother following any of the rest of the EU novels, for some reason, but felt (as a young teenage fan) that the trilogy by itself ended in a really satisfactory way, like it was the post-OT trilogy that had been rumored and nothing more needed to be said about the Skywalker story.

Of course, they found more to be said, some good, a lot not so good!

[Toth]

4 minutes ago, Ran said:

Glad you enjoyed the trilogy! It really locked in my love of the Star Wars universe, at least as an idea as expressed in the original trilogy. I didn't really bother following any of the rest of the EU novels, for some reason, but felt (as a young teenage fan) that the trilogy by itself ended in a really satisfactory way, like it was the post-OT trilogy that had been rumored and nothing more needed to be said about the Skywalker story.

Of course, they found more to be said, some good, a lot not so good!

Do you mean by that you also didn't follow the other Zahn novels? Because as I said, the Hand of Thrawn duology seems like it had been intended to follow up right away. If not, Fey'lya's sudden frenzy about Palpatine's cache of blackmail on Wayland never makes sense as it came out of nowhere and was never resolved within the first three books.

My plan really was just to read the Zahn novels and then The New Jedi Order since the Yuuzhan Vong invasion is a really interesting and gloriously ambitious concept when watched from afar. Also would love to read more about Jaina and Jacen. And their 10 years old versions aren't quite cutting it.^^

[Ran]

2 minutes ago, Toth said:

Do you mean by that you also didn't follow the other Zahn novels? Because as I said, the Hand of Thrawn duology seems like it had been intended to follow up right away.

Yeah, never read any other of the Zahn books. My understanding is that they were commissioned years after the initial trilogy, to close out the Bantam Spectra run of books when the license was being moved to a new publisher, so they weren't necessarily part of any plan from Zahn. Loose ends in the first trilogy were just things he threw out there for other writers, I think, but I could be wrong on this.

[Toth]

10 hours ago, Ran said:

Yeah, never read any other of the Zahn books. My understanding is that they were commissioned years after the initial trilogy, to close out the Bantam Spectra run of books when the license was being moved to a new publisher, so they weren't necessarily part of any plan from Zahn. Loose ends in the first trilogy were just things he threw out there for other writers, I think, but I could be wrong on this.

I see. I guess that makes sense. But in that sense, nobody bothered to pick up on things like what the Emperor had against the Bothans or what the hell Thrawn was doing in the five years between Endor and him taking command of the Empire. And I'd argue that the Thrawn Trilogy doesn't really work as an end point for a sequel trilogy as the war with the Imperial Remnant supposedly goes on. Since Pelleaons main mission in Hand of Thrawn seems to be getting peace talks on their way, it seems very much that these two books end with a sense of finality for this conflict.

Though I must admit, I'm a bit skeptical about Outbound Flight. That seems like a book nobody asked for and it will be weird to see Zahn trying to fit Thrawn into the prequel era.

[Werthead]

The Thrawn Trilogy (1991-93) opened Bantam's run in the old EU (the novel side anyway, the official start of the EU was the West End Games roleplaying game published in 1987) and The Hand of Thrawn duology (1997-98) closed it down, before the move to Ace Books who did a mild reboot of the EU in the massive New Jedi Order series (1999-2003).

So there's a whole bunch of books that fall between Thrawn and Hand of Thrawn and expand on why, for example, the Empire has further collapsed and the various crises that have taken place that mean that the New Republic may have exhausted its capacity for further military action. Unfortunately a number of these books are horseshit. The Jedi Academy Trilogy by Kevin J. Anderson is important as it shows Luke setting up the new Jedi Academy on Yavin IV, the birth of Han and Leia's younger son and how a resurgent Imperial admiral with delusions of Thrawn ends up hurting the Empire way more than helping it, but it also has some truly awful elements (the Sun Crusher, which is basically the Death Star but it can destroy stars and it's the size of a B-wing) and Anderson's prose is borderline unreadable.

Some of the better series which do expand on the canon in that time are the Corellian Trilogy by Roger MacBride Allen (set fourteen years after Return of the Jedi and a year or two before the Hand of Thrawn books) and especially the X-Wing series by Michael Stackpole and Aaron Allston (set between Return of the Jedi and Heir to the Empire).

You're then into The New Jedi Order, which at its best (Traitor, Star by Star) is exceptional and at its weakest is pretty phoned in (Dark Journey).

[Ghostlydragon]

I've just gotten into the EU in the last few months. Heir to the Empire is a masterpiece but Thrawn's refusal to listen to Paellon and keep faith in C'boath when he should have known better seemed strange but I guess all villains have to make some mistakes but his downfall made sense. For a guy who prided himself on knowing everything, it was right that what he didn't know beat him.

 

I've bought so many. NJO and Legacy of the Force are gonna take months to read as well as the first 4 X Wing books and the Hand of Thrawn duo should be great.

I've even picked up some 00s books for a re-read. I loved the Dark Lord trilogy back in 2006 and can't wait to do it again.

I've even bought the Darth Bane trilogy for a bit of old republic reading.

[Toth]

No, I still haven't managed to finish Vision of the Future... But have found a rather amusing webcomic called Blue Milk Special that is currently doing a parody of the Thrawn Trilogy: http://www.bluemilkspecial.com

http://www.bluemilkspecial.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/HEIR026.jpg

http://www.bluemilkspecial.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/HEIR062.jpg

http://www.bluemilkspecial.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/HEIR094.jpg

http://www.bluemilkspecial.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HEIR096.jpg

http://www.bluemilkspecial.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HEIR103.jpg

[Ghostlydragon]

On 6/9/2021 at 10:04 PM, Toth said:

No, I still haven't managed to finish Vision of the Future... But have found a rather amusing webcomic called Blue Milk Special that is currently doing a parody of the Thrawn Trilogy: http://www.bluemilkspecial.com

http://www.bluemilkspecial.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/HEIR026.jpg

http://www.bluemilkspecial.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/HEIR062.jpg

http://www.bluemilkspecial.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/HEIR094.jpg

http://www.bluemilkspecial.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HEIR096.jpg

http://www.bluemilkspecial.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HEIR103.jpg

Haha, excellent.

[Lord Varys]

On 8/15/2020 at 10:08 PM, Ran said:

Yeah, never read any other of the Zahn books. My understanding is that they were commissioned years after the initial trilogy, to close out the Bantam Spectra run of books when the license was being moved to a new publisher, so they weren't necessarily part of any plan from Zahn. Loose ends in the first trilogy were just things he threw out there for other writers, I think, but I could be wrong on this.

Zahn actually wanted to make his own Unknown Regions threat for which there are hints in the duology, but he ended up not contributing to the NJO.

On 8/16/2020 at 8:25 AM, Toth said:

I see. I guess that makes sense. But in that sense, nobody bothered to pick up on things like what the Emperor had against the Bothans or what the hell Thrawn was doing in the five years between Endor and him taking command of the Empire. And I'd argue that the Thrawn Trilogy doesn't really work as an end point for a sequel trilogy as the war with the Imperial Remnant supposedly goes on. Since Pelleaons main mission in Hand of Thrawn seems to be getting peace talks on their way, it seems very much that these two books end with a sense of finality for this conflict.

Though I must admit, I'm a bit skeptical about Outbound Flight. That seems like a book nobody asked for and it will be weird to see Zahn trying to fit Thrawn into the prequel era.

Outbound Flight works reasonably well, actually.

The X Wing series is really good at times, and while Wert is right that Anderson's Jedi Academy Trilogy isn't that great, I daresay it is, in parts, better than the ST movies insofar as plot is concerned.

The Sun Crusher works better as a super weapon than the Starkiller plant thingy.

And for all Thrawn trilogy fans - I can only reiterate: Learn German. We got an audioplay version of that trilogy with the characters spoken by the original German voices of the OT. It is an outstanding work.

[Ghostlydragon]

8 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Zahn actually wanted to make his own Unknown Regions threat for which there are hints in the duology, but he ended up not contributing to the NJO.

Outbound Flight works reasonably well, actually.

The X Wing series is really good at times, and while Wert is right that Anderson's Jedi Academy Trilogy isn't that great, I daresay it is, in parts, better than the ST movies insofar as plot is concerned.

The Sun Crusher works better as a super weapon than the Starkiller plant thingy.

And for all Thrawn trilogy fans - I can only reiterate: Learn German. We got an audioplay version of that trilogy with the characters spoken by the original German voices of the OT. It is an outstanding work.

Great. I actually started the first x wing book recently. It was so good. People who've called it Top Gun in space aren't lying. I've now got the first 7. I may pick the remaining three up one day but the jedi academy trilogy is next. I'm slowly getting towards the new jedi order series. That's gonna be brutal.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, Ghostlydragon said:

Great. I actually started the first x wing book recently. It was so good. People who've called it Top Gun in space aren't lying. I've now got the first 7. I may pick the remaining three up one day but the jedi academy trilogy is next. I'm slowly getting towards the new jedi order series. That's gonna be brutal.

If you like Corran Horn from the X Wing series you should also consider reading 'I, Jedi' after the Jedi Academy Trilogy.