Jon Darry died wearing Rhaegar's armor at Battle of the Trident

[Ser Loras The Gay]

2 minutes ago, Aegon VII said:

Good question. Let's remember that this whole theory is predicated on BR sending Rhaegar help through dreams/ GoHH. Let's say the glamor ended as soon as JD died, it very well could have just been the plan that they bleached JD's hair and then BR cleans up his face after he dies to conceal the switcheroo. Concerning how the crows got in, even if they weren't warged by BR there's a great chance they could get in his helm and devour his face. A wild animal after food is pretty efficient at getting to it. I would assume most styles of helmet would allow enough entry to mess up a face with the birds just trying every entry point and wiggling it around. Once we add them being warged I think it's pretty easy to believe BR got in there and devoured some face. nom nom nom

So you're willing to believe that BR wasted his fucking time warging some crows to devour the face of Rhaegar AFTER the battle but you're not willing to believe that Rhaegar is simply alive? Oh, okay.

[The hairy bear]

15 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

Let me know what you think!

I think the theory makes little ground.

It specially makes no sense from Rhaegar's perspective. I assumes Rhaegar would cowardly send a friend to die in his place, and abandon his father, wife and children to their fates. Moreover, he would abandon his pregnant lover/wife that he believes is the key to a prophecy that will save the world. All this to accomplish... what exactly?

 

[Dorian Martell's son]

16 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

TL/DR

Let me know what you think!

Jonothor's Body was found. We know he was dead, the same as the prince. 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

1 minute ago, The hairy bear said:

I think the theory makes little ground.

It specially makes no sense from Rhaegar's perspective. I assumes Rhaegar would cowardly send a friend to die in his place, and abandon his father, wife and children to their fates. Moreover, he would abandon his pregnant lover/wife that he believes is the key to a prophecy that will save the world. All this to accomplish... what exactly?

Be alive as the king of the fucking free folk and bitching on the north side of the wall doing fucking nothing.

[Alia of the knife]

While from a mechanical standpoint, the meta is well written, I think Rhaegar is dead. Historically speaking, any man taking a throne from another would make sure that his opponent was actually the real deal and was dead, right down to stripping the body and putting it on display for all to see, so as not to leave any doubt.

Ned, Robert, but especially Tywin would make CERTAIN Rhaegar was Rhaegar and was dead, especially since they also purged the rest of House Targaryen.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

13 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Jonothor's Body was found. We know he was dead, the same as the prince. 

So...

I got it! Another impostor, who was glamored into Jonothor Darry, when Ser Jonothor was glamored into Rhaegar! Yes, this is what this theory lacked!

[Ser Loras The Gay]

Just now, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

So...

I got it! Another impostor, who was glamored into Jonothor Darry, when Ser Jonothor was glamored into Rhaegar! Yes, this is what this theory lacked!

I lol'd

[Ygrain]

13 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Jonothor's Body was found. We know he was dead, the same as the prince. 

Funny how long it took for someone to point this out. If Darry was poising as Rhaegar, who the hell was poising as Darry? Darry is known to have died on the Trident, hence his body was apparently identified. Darry was dead, and Rhaegar was cremated.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

Just now, Ygrain said:

Funny how long it took for someone to point this out. If Darry was poising as Rhaegar, who the hell was poising as Darry? Darry is known to have died on the Trident, hence his body was apparently identified. Darry was dead, and Rhaegar was cremated.

The OP said they just meant "the HOUSE darry" derp.

[Ygrain]

3 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

The OP said they just meant "the HOUSE darry" derp.

What, as in, a whole frikking castle glamoured as Rhaegar? Wow, that would have been a feat!

But I see lots of "Jon Darry" in the OP.

 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

Just now, Ygrain said:

What, as in, a whole frikking castle glamoured as Rhaegar? Wow, that would have been a feat!

But I see lots of "Jon Darry" in the OP.

No. When people said "darry" was dead the OP said they meant "the HOUSE Darry" was dead. Not the person.

[Dorian Martell's son]

8 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

So...

I got it! Another impostor, who was glamored into Jonothor Darry, when Ser Jonothor was glamored into Rhaegar! Yes, this is what this theory lacked!

It was mance obvs. 

8 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

Funny how long it took for someone to point this out. If Darry was poising as Rhaegar, who the hell was poising as Darry? Darry is known to have died on the Trident, hence his body was apparently identified. Darry was dead, and Rhaegar was cremated.

Mance was glamoured to Jon Darry's armor obvs. He came down from the watch, breaking his vows, then when Rhaegar went north to the wall he couldn't be at the watch as Mance because real mance had broken his vows by going south to fight as Jon Darry when Jon was fighting as Rhaegar. See, If you just make fan fic complex and baroque enough it all makes sense in the end 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

@Dorian Martell's son I saved this thread to the "crackpot list". Someday I'll post it like the "compendium of theories" thread. Just you wait.

[Trigger Warning]

13 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

@Dorian Martell's son I saved this thread to the "crackpot list". Someday I'll post it like the "compendium of theories" thread. Just you wait.

Kekking. 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

Just now, Trigger Warning said:

Kekking. 

Kekking indeed.

[Aegon VII]

1 hour ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

So you're willing to believe that BR wasted his fucking time warging some crows to devour the face of Rhaegar AFTER the battle but you're not willing to believe that Rhaegar is simply alive? Oh, okay.

Man did I do something to personally offend you as you've been on a tear this thread? As I mentioned in a previous comment I recognize this is crackpot but if we're going to evaluate asoiaf I do believe we have to at least consider the possibility Rhaegar is alive, especially considering how much evidence supports MR=RT. In my evaluation I noticed parallels between that two incidents at the trident and evidence that Darry could have been involved in both. Your comments like "so you're willing to believe"  suggest I believe my theory is the most likely explanation of asoiaf, when I can assure you I realize it's a longshot. You say that because they knew it was the wrong wolf that completely invalidates the parallels but that's not the case at all. There's still quite a few parallels of note, without JD being the one whom died, but if we assume it was him the parallels go even further. If you find no value from the analysis that's fine but that speaks just as much about you as it does the analysis.

 

1 hour ago, Alia of the knife said:

While from a mechanical standpoint, the meta is well written, I think Rhaegar is dead.

Thank you for the kind words, nice change of pace! If I was a betting man (I am) I would put my money on his death as well.

1 hour ago, Alia of the knife said:

Historically speaking, any man taking a throne from another would make sure that his opponent was actually the real deal and was dead, right down to stripping the body and putting it on display for all to see, so as not to leave any doubt.

Very true, so it would have to be a case of poetic license. That or GRRM just does glamors and such in a way that explains it.
 Real world, no way this could happen. A fantasy series though, just maybe..

 

1 hour ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

The OP said they just meant "the HOUSE darry" derp.

Seriously.. I'd appreciate if you try to be funny somewhere else. I'm relatively new to these forums but I have to ask, have you ever contributed anything of value here. You're doing a great job recognizing my theory here is crackpot and making jokes about it, but have you ever done the opposite? Build something? Create a theory? You and way too many others on this forum love to shit on crackpot theories. It creates a hostile environment not conducive to the sharing of ideas and theories, which is necessary for us to learn and evolve our understanding of the series, which is the reason many of us come here.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

@Aegon VII so, I made a post recently adressing some problems about the big gap between the books one of them was about the fact that it's almost impossible to come up with a new theory that makes sense because almost all of them were already made or at least discussed. My contribution to this forum is basically start discussions about what was written and opinions about future happening in the books. I don't see any value on making a theory like yours when yourself is telling us you know this is crackpot. Doing theories for the sake of doing theories doesn't make sense. And everytime I read about Rhaegar being alive and is *put any name here* I have to say something, and you know why? Because someone else already have done a """theory"""" about it. Sorry if I've offended you when I made fun about your crackpot. But you're just one in a bigger problem in the community. This forum at this stage is a place to discuss the events that happened in fact and discuss more about the theories that were already done. It's very very hard to come up with something new that is supported by the text. Not just supported, but makes something to the overall story. I'm not here to dictate what people should or shouldn't post, but I have the right to mock when something doesn't add up, and Rhaegar is *insert name here* theories is something that I'll mock just like Euron is *insert any name here* or Howland reed is *insert any name here*.

[Damon_Tor]

16 hours ago, Helikzhan said:

That quote about the 3 shadows people read too far into all the time. The Hound and Sansa, Ned and Jamie, Gregor and Arya have all come and gone already. 

 

The bit about the visor full of blood though seems to point to a future event that hasn't yet happened. A redemption arc for the Hound and Jamie fighting unGregor would be my guess. 

I don't think that vision has to do with Gregor at all. Someone's "shadow" is already established to have nothing to do with their size thematically, so a shadow as big as a mountain need not be cast by a man the size of a mountain. Gregor isn't "armored in stone" even metaphorically. "Black Blood" is generally a reference to House Hoare.

[maudisdottir]

18 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

"I vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her."
"You did," Ned reminded him.
"Only once," Robert said bitterly.

Once wasn’t enough to get the job done?

"In my dreams, I kill him every night," Robert admitted. "A thousand deaths will still be less than he deserves."

With MR=RT, Rhaegar assumes many different identities and has multiple deaths. Also the number of a thousand is heavily associated with BR.

“Well take heart, father; at least Rhaegar Targaryen is still dead.”

Would be ironic if he wasn’t.

'Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died.'

Interesting that he purposely separates “and Rhaegar died” from Rhaegar’s other traits? Perhaps the first three things are true, the last one isn’t.

Prince Rhaegar burned with a cold light, now white, now red, now dark.

In Jaime’s weirwood dream the flame is life. He and Brienne try to not let theirs go out. But Rhaegar being described as burning with a cold light suggests he too has a flame and is therefore also alive.

“Ser Jon was slain at the Trident,^[5] cut down in the midst of the conflict”

A very small note here is that BR is heavily associated with mist, and midst and mist sound almost the same.

I'm not a fan of crackpot, even to kill time during the Long Wait. I try not to be too rude or condescending, unless the OP does the same in defending their theories (eg when there's nothing in the books to back it and up the only evidence is "you're obviously not perceptive enough to read between the lines to see what GRRM isn't saying"). So while I don't think mockery is the best way to express disagreement, I can understand the frustration.

Having said that, I don't really consider the above constitutes "analysis". Taking a quote from the text and saying "would be ironic if he wasn't" is not evidence - it's the opposite. You're basically giving examples of characters stating Rhaegar is dead, then using those to somehow claim they're all lying or mistaken. And the connection between "mist" and "midst" is non-existent. That's not even a play on words - it's nothing.

 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

5 minutes ago, maudisdottir said:

I'm not a fan of crackpot, even to kill time during the Long Wait. I try not to be too rude or condescending, unless the OP does the same in defending their theories (eg when there's nothing in the books to back it and up the only evidence is "you're obviously not perceptive enough to read between the lines to see what GRRM isn't saying"). So while I don't think mockery is the best way to express disagreement, I can understand the frustration.

Having said that, I don't really consider the above constitutes "analysis". Taking a quote from the text and saying "would be ironic if he wasn't" is not evidence - it's the opposite. You're basically giving examples of characters stating Rhaegar is dead, then using those to somehow claim they're all lying or mistaken. And the connection between "mist" and "midst" is non-existent. That's not even a play on words - it's nothing.

 

I too know that mockery is the best way to approach, but I guess I'm just tired of overthinking and reading what it's not in the text to make a serious refutation.