Heresy 198 The Knight of the Laughing Tree

[ravenous reader]

2 hours ago, JNR said:

Well, the text provides the definition of singers pretty clearly:

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"The First Men named us children," the little woman said. "The giants called us woh dak nag gran, the squirrel people, because we were small and quick and fond of trees, but we are no squirrels, no children. Our name in the True Tongue means those who sing the song of earth. Before your Old Tongue was ever spoken, we had sung our songs ten thousand years."

It is synonymous with the CotF, who are certainly a different species from Bran.  The CotF also literally do sing:

'Those who sing...' Please reread @wolfmaid7's iconic thread of the same name, and consider a possible expansion of the idea!  

There are plenty of examples of Bran literally singing, including to wolves and comets:

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A Clash of Kings - Bran I

He could not walk, nor climb nor hunt nor fight with a wooden sword as once he had, but he could still look. He liked to watch the windows begin to glow all over Winterfell as candles and hearth fires were lit behind the diamond-shaped panes of tower and hall, and he loved to listen to the direwolves sing to the stars.

Of late, he often dreamed of wolves. They are talking to me, brother to brother, he told himself when the direwolves howled. He could almost understand them . . . not quite, not truly, but almost . . . as if they were singing in a language he had once known and somehow forgotten. The Walders might be scared of them, but the Starks had wolf blood. Old Nan told him so. "Though it is stronger in some than in others," she warned.

Summer's howls were long and sad, full of grief and longing. Shaggydog's were more savage. Their voices echoed through the yards and halls until the castle rang and it seemed as though some great pack of direwolves haunted Winterfell, instead of only two . . . two where there had once been six. Do they miss their brothers and sisters too? Bran wondered. Are they calling to Grey Wind and Ghost, to Nymeria and Lady's Shade? Do they want them to come home and be a pack together?

 

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A Clash of Kings - Bran I

If I were truly a direwolf, I would understand the song, he thought wistfully. In his wolf dreams, he could race up the sides of mountains, jagged icy mountains taller than any tower, and stand at the summit beneath the full moon with all the world below him, the way it used to be.

"Oooo," Bran cried tentatively. He cupped his hands around his mouth and lifted his head to the comet. "Ooooooooooooooooooo, ahooooooooooooooo," he howled. It sounded stupid, high and hollow and quavering, a little boy's howl, not a wolf's. Yet Summer gave answer, his deep voice drowning out Bran's thin one, and Shaggydog made it a chorus. Bran haroooed again. They howled together, last of their pack.

The noise brought a guard to his door, Hayhead with the wen on his nose. He peered in, saw Bran howling out the window, and said, "What's this, my prince?"

'Windows' are symbolic of 'third eyes' (eg. when Bran naughtily 'slips out the window at night' that is synonymous with making a greenseeing trip).  Same thing for 'shutters' -- 'songs drifting through shutters' is receiving the 'song of the earth.'

When Bran skinchanges Summer, he does understand the wolf's language, just as the wolf understands his.  There is a channel created between Common and True Tongues in which the translation between the two is facilitated.

Then in this passage while he's in his coma (during which the third-eye initiation is transpiring) Bran's heart sings along in synch with the healing song of the wolves drifting through the window , which Robb as a warg, in contrast to Cat, has instinctively known to open via his connection to Grey Wolf who reciprocally is connected to Summer who initiates the chorus.

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A Game of Thrones - Tyrion I

"If he wakes," Cersei repeated. "Is that likely?"

"The gods alone know," Tyrion told her. "The maester only hopes." He chewed some more bread. "I would swear that wolf of his is keeping the boy alive. The creature is outside his window day and night, howling. Every time they chase it away, it returns. The maester said they closed the window once, to shut out the noise, and Bran seemed to weaken. When they opened it again, his heart beat stronger."

The queen shuddered. "There is something unnatural about those animals," she said. "They are dangerous. I will not have any of them coming south with us."

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A Game of Thrones - Catelyn III

Outside the tower, a wolf began to howl. Catelyn trembled, just for a second.

"Bran's." Robb opened the window and let the night air into the stuffy tower room. The howling grew louder. It was a cold and lonely sound, full of melancholy and despair.

"Don't," she told him. "Bran needs to stay warm."

"He needs to hear them sing," Robb said. Somewhere out in Winterfell, a second wolf began to howl in chorus with the first. Then a third, closer. "Shaggydog and Grey Wind," Robb said as their voices rose and fell together. "You can tell them apart if you listen close."
Catelyn was shaking. It was the grief, the cold, the howling of the direwolves. Night after night, the howling and the cold wind and the grey empty castle, on and on they went, never changing, and her boy lying there broken, the sweetest of her children, the gentlest, Bran who loved to laugh and climb and dreamt of knighthood, all gone now, she would never hear him laugh again. Sobbing, she pulled her hand free of his and covered her ears against those terrible howls. "Make them stop!" she cried. "I can't stand it, make them stop, make them stop, kill them all if you must, just make them stop!"
She didn't remember falling to the floor, but there she was, and Robb was lifting her, holding her in strong arms. "Don't be afraid, Mother. They would never hurt him." He helped her to her narrow bed in the corner of the sickroom. "Close your eyes," he said gently. "Rest. Maester Luwin tells me you've hardly slept since Bran's fall."
"I can't," she wept. "Gods forgive me, Robb, I can't, what if he dies while I'm asleep, what if he dies, what if he dies . . . " The wolves were still howling. She screamed and held her ears again. "Oh, gods, close the window!"
"If you swear to me you'll sleep." Robb went to the window, but as he reached for the shutters another sound was added to the mournful howling of the direwolves. "Dogs," he said, listening. "All the dogs are barking. They've never done that before . . . " Catelyn heard his breath catch in his throat. When she looked up, his face was pale in the lamplight. "Fire," he whispered.
Fire, she thought, and then, Bran! "Help me," she said urgently, sitting up. "Help me with Bran."
Robb did not seem to hear her. "The library tower's on fire," he said.

If Robb hadn't responded to the wolf call, they would not have been alerted to the fire.

2 hours ago, JNR said:

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Sometimes the sound of song would drift up from someplace far below. The children of the forest, Old Nan would have called the singers, but those who sing the song of earth was their own name for themselves, in the True Tongue that no human man could speak.

But Bran never participates in this singing and is not a CotF.

While I agree that Bran is definitely not a CotF, I must disagree that he never participates in the 'singing'.  

'Those who sing the song of the earth' are the Children of the Forest.  They sing the song in the True Tongue that no human man could speak.  But once Bran weds the tree, he is no longer technically a 'human man', being part tree now!  We can see the end-product of this relationship in Bloodraven who is described as 'half a corpse' (so no longer really a man) and 'half tree.'   If Bran is no longer strictly 'human' -- and he's not a 'man' being a boy, anyway, if we're going to be linguistically pedantic in the vein of our formidable cunning linguistic Voice  -- then we cannot really rule out, from that statement alone, that Bran might be able to speak, and even 'sing', in the True Tongue.

So what is this 'True Tongue'?  I don't know how you feel about TWOIAF but there is this suggestive passage regarding Bran's ancestor, who started out as a 'human man' (although who can tell what he became later on?) and the 'manner in which he learned the True Tongue' which however in classically coy GRRM style is never clarified (damn that GRRM, he keeps moving the goal posts every time we try to nail down the canon!) -- and as it so happens this ancestor not only is his namesake but his journey has a remarkable similarity to the story we're reading of our Bran's own quest, leading one to question why we are being fed this obvious parallel.  Brandon Stark is following in Brandon Stark's footsteps for some reason.....but you know, that is 'a tale so often repeated that it doesn't bear repeating', you know the one I mean..?!  

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The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Dawn Age

Their song and music was said to be as beautiful as they were, but what they sang of is not remembered save in small fragments handed down from ancient days. Maester Childer's Winter's Kings, or the Legends and Lineages of the Starks of Winterfell contains a part of a ballad alleged to tell of the time Brandon the Builder sought the aid of the children while raising the Wall. He was taken to a secret place to meet with them, but could not at first understand their speech, which was described as sounding like the song of stones in a brook, or the wind through leaves, or the rain upon the water. The manner in which Brandon learned to comprehend the speech of the children is a tale in itself, and not worth repeating here. But it seems clear that their speech originated, or drew inspiration from, the sounds they heard every day.

'At first' Brandon could not understand their speech -- i.e. the True Tongue -- which doesn't however rule out his learning it in the course of his sojourn with the Children.  In fact, it's confirmed that he did indeed subsequently learn to comprehend, if not master, this foreign language -- via some unspecified manner of 'language lesson' (I'd wager it's the kind where 'lessons become dreams and dreams lessons...'  When GRRM says 'a tale not worth repeating' that's a text marker for us to pay attention -- since it's one of the key mysteries and founding principles of the saga (he also employs this cheeky catchphrase to mark the account of 'Rhaegar and Lyanna' in order to indicate that what we think we know might be spurious and that we ought to look into it further):

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Fall of the Dragons: The Year of the False Spring

The False Spring of 281 AC lasted less than two turns. As the year drew to a close, winter returned to Westeros with a vengeance. On the last day of the year, snow began to fall upon King's Landing, and a crust of ice formed atop the Blackwater Rush. The snowfall continued off and on for the best part of a fortnight, by which time the Blackwater was hard frozen, and icicles draped the roofs and gutters of every tower in the city.

As cold winds hammered the city, King Aerys II turned to his pyromancers, charging them to drive the winter off with their magics. Huge green fires burned along the walls of the Red Keep for a moon's turn. Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides.

But that tale is too well-known to warrant repeating here.

As far as the 'tale not worth repeating' in Brandon Stark's case, it's also a delectable irony, given that our Bran's story is repeating that of his ancestor, therefore contradicting in the same breath the assertion that it's not worth repeating!  LOL

Now let me draw your attention to the True Tongue which you've agreed is used for the singing, to which I would add that the True Tongue is synonymous with the Song -- speaking it therefore is the same as singing it; or why else refer to the language in three separate ways, namely as 'the song' which can be interpreted as qualifying the following three items, stones, wind, and rain; or in other words the elements of earth, air and water, respectively (think of the song involved as dialects of the same, if you will).  So, the True Tongue =the song of stones=the song of the wind=the song of the rain.

Do you think our Brandon might be able to communicate using any of these dialects?  We've already seen him use at least one of them a number of times (for more, please refer to the marathon tug-of-war MacGregor and I had with Dorian trying to get him to admit to the significance of the 'rustling,' in which I believe you also took part):

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

… but then somehow he was back at Winterfell again, in the godswood looking down upon his father. Lord Eddard seemed much younger this time. His hair was brown, with no hint of grey in it, his head bowed. "… let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them," he prayed, "and let my lady wife find it in her heart to forgive …"

"Father." Bran's voice was a whisper in the wind, a rustle in the leaves. "Father, it's me. It's Bran. Brandon."

Eddard Stark lifted his head and looked long at the weirwood, frowning, but he did not speak. He cannot see me, Bran realized, despairing. He wanted to reach out and touch him, but all that he could do was watch and listen. I am in the tree. I am inside the heart tree, looking out of its red eyes, but the weirwood cannot talk, so I can't.

Bran is incorrect in concluding that 'the weirwood cannot talk, so I can't'.  Bran, or, more accurately, Bran via the weirwood conduit can talk/sing/whisper/rustle/sigh, etc. -- it's just that Ned doesn't understand the language.  Nor does Sam:

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A Storm of Swords - Samwell III

Sam made a whimpery sound. "It's not fair . . ."

"Fair." The raven landed on his shoulder. "Fair, far, fear." It flapped its wings, and screamed along with Gilly. The wights were almost on her. He heard the dark red leaves of the weirwood rustling, whispering to one another in a tongue he did not know. The starlight itself seemed to stir, and all around them the trees groaned and creaked.

But someone else in the text does indeed inexplicably understand this language or 'tongue', someone with more of an aptitude for receiving, and therefore we could say more attuned to such 'third-eye' communications, especially since he's lost several of his body parts, including his penis and reproductive capacity, all suggesting that in GRRM's world he's now eminently qualified to connect with a greenseer...

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A Dance with Dragons - A Ghost in Winterfell

And in the heart of the wood the weirwood waited with its knowing red eyes. Theon stopped by the edge of the pool and bowed his head before its carved red face. Even here he could hear the drumming, boom DOOM boom DOOM boom DOOM boom DOOM. Like distant thunder, the sound seemed to come from everywhere at once.

The night was windless, the snow drifting straight down out of a cold black sky, yet the leaves of the heart tree were rustling his name. "Theon," they seemed to whisper, "Theon."

The old gods, he thought. They know me. They know my name. I was Theon of House Greyjoy. I was a ward of Eddard Stark, a friend and brother to his children. "Please." He fell to his knees. "A sword, that's all I ask. Let me die as Theon, not as Reek." Tears trickled down his cheeks, impossibly warm. "I was ironborn. A son … a son of Pyke, of the islands."

A leaf drifted down from above, brushed his brow, and landed in the pool. It floated on the water, red, five-fingered, like a bloody hand. "… Bran," the tree murmured.

Then in TWOW, Theon confirms that the message was not transmitted purely telepathically -- so not in the 'silent shout' category -- but heard audibly, and moreover produced specifically by the leaves moving: 

Spoiler

The Winds of Winter - Theon I

She has to understand. She is my sister. He never wanted to do any harm to Bran or Rickon. Reek made him kill those boys, not him Reek but the other one. "I am no kinslayer," he insisted. He told her how he bedded down with Ramsay's bitches, warned her that Winterfell was full of ghosts. "The swords were gone. Four, I think, or five. I don't recall. The stone kings are angry." He was shaking by then, trembling like an autumn leaf. "The heart tree knew my name. The old gods. Theon, I heard them whisper. There was no wind but the leaves were moving. Theon, they said. My name is Theon." It was good to say the name. The more he said it, the less like he was to forget. 

Theon saw the leaves moving on a windless night, so there is no commonsense explanation beyond something supernatural in play.  We cannot say it was 'only the wind', because there was no wind.  I've concluded that Bran as greenseer is beginning to get the hang of 'tree speak' or True Tongue and established a conduit between him and Theon in which the True Tongue and common tongue can be mutually understood.

Finally, though, I must caution you that 'singing' this particular song is a euphemism for weaving spells-- although that's another story and my post is already long enough.  Insofar as much human greenseers acquired magic with help of the Children (e.g. of the kind that might raise a wall or cause a castle, tower or cairn to disappear, hammers to fall and waters to rise...) they can be said to be 'singing' that song, and in their strange wedding to the trees and/or other singers be counted among the singers themselves.

(ETA:  To reiterate re: 'the strange wedding' in which there is a degree of identity diffusion or dissolution of individuality (by which I do not mean to imply a total paralysis of will with loss of autonomy), this is one of the reasons as I've previously explained that the north is configured as being figuratively 'underwater' 'under the sea,' and that drowning or 'near-drowning' in that green sea/see is a metaphor for greenseeing.)

I also have an inkling that the other less euphemistic name for 'the song of the earth' is 'the murderer's song' and that a greenseer in the past used it in such a way as to call forth mass catastrophe, for which his ancestors are still paying the price.  You see, when you can sing 'the song of stone' you can also manoeuvre celestial bodies which are made of the same stone, or if you don't like the comet theory, trigger volcanic eruptions; or using the song of water, unleash a flood like Garin did, who it should be obvious by now was also a greenseer, regardless of Voice's impressive statistics on the frequency of phenotypic expression.  It's important to understand that the 'rustle' created by Bran for Theon entailed both sound and movement, so songs can translate as projectiles in the territory of telekinesis.  There is nothing innocuous or quaint in this 'song.'  Don't be fooled.

2 hours ago, JNR said:

I mean, imagine the following:

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Ned produced Robert's letter. "Lord Varys, be so kind as to show this to my lady of Lannister."

The eunuch carried the letter to Cersei. The queen glanced at the words. "Protector of the Realm," she read. "Is this meant to be your shield, my lord? A piece of paper?" She ripped the letter in half, ripped the halves in quarters, and let the pieces flutter to the floor.

Ned watched, stunned, as his hand lifted, palm up, without his wishing it to do so, and beyond his power to stop!  His fingers curled toward him -- all but the middle one, which pointed directly at the queen.  "Holy shit," he screamed, "my hand is doing weird things all on its own!!"

 

I just can't picture this happening without Ned noticing, thinking about it, or commenting along such lines.

 

[Matthew.]

On 5/21/2017 at 2:47 PM, LynnS said:

I'm reminded of Quaithe touching Dany's wrist, leaving a tingling sensation.  She seems to have made a physical connection with Dany using touch that allows her to come to her by way of glass candle.  

A belated response, but might a comparison be made between the weirwood paste and Shade of the Evening? When Bran first eats it, I recall that the taste evolves to become more pleasant in a way that is not dissimilar to Dany's experience with Shade of the Evening, and it may be that the similarities go deeper than that--there's also the point where Dany is literally being fed upon by the Undying, something she initially fails to notice while she's under the influence, and also seems powerless to resist until Drogon's intercession. Though, it's been long enough since I read that chapter that I might be misremembering.

Perhaps Bran, while under the influence of the weirwood paste, is similarly vulnerable.

 

5 hours ago, JNR said:

1) Leaf, by touching Bran, established a telekinetic connection to Bran that empowered her to lift his body parts on her mental command (a supernatural power of the CotF never shown or even hinted at in myths, five books into a seven-book series)

I don't know, what you describe here doesn't seem that far a cry from what skinchangers do. Do all of the singers have the gift? How far does the "collective consciousness" thing they have going on extend--do living singers have some connection to one another, or is that reserved for the greenseers and the dead? Is Bran being brought into the collective without realizing it?

[Melifeather]

4 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

or using the song of water, unleash a flood like Garin did, who it should be obvious by now was also a greenseer, regardless of Voice's impressive statistics on the frequency of phenotypic expression.  It's important to understand that the 'rustle' created by Bran for Theon entailed both sound and movement, so songs can translate as projectiles in the territory of telekinesis.

Ooh, I like this very much! Calling upon the gods to bring a flood! Hmmm - foreshadowing for Jaime somehow? I find it hard to believe he's got greenseeing in his future, but he is a symbolic parallel to Garin the Great in his golden cage.

2 hours ago, Matthew. said:

A belated response, but might a comparison be made between the weirwood paste and Shade of the Evening? When Bran first eats it, I recall that the taste evolves to become more pleasant in a way that is not dissimilar to Dany's experience with Shade of the Evening, and it may be that the similarities go deeper than that--there's also the point where Dany is literally being fed upon by the Undying, something she initially fails to notice while she's under the influence, and also seems powerless to resist until Drogon's intercession. Though, it's been long enough since I read that chapter that I might be misremembering.

Perhaps Bran, while under the influence of the weirwood paste, is similarly vulnerable.

 

I don't know, what you describe here doesn't seem that far a cry from what skinchangers do. Do all of the singers have the gift? How far does the "collective consciousness" thing they have going on extend--do living singers have some connection to one another, or is that reserved for the greenseers and the dead? Is Bran being brought into the collective without realizing it?

Think about the Undying biting and licking Dany....ew, gives me goosebumps...anyways, you could change the location and insert Bran...they're biting and licking him when he's on his weirwood throne trying to consume him. 

[Black Crow]

8 hours ago, Matthew. said:

 

I don't know, what you describe here doesn't seem that far a cry from what skinchangers do. Do all of the singers have the gift? How far does the "collective consciousness" thing they have going on extend--do living singers have some connection to one another, or is that reserved for the greenseers and the dead? Is Bran being brought into the collective without realizing it?

 

I agree entirely - that's how I read it

[LordImp]

Is there a heresy thread discussing Euron ?

[JNR]

19 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

While I agree that Bran is definitely not a CotF, I must disagree that he never participates in the 'singing'.

He's a skinchanger and the direwolves do something that we can call singing, and Bran can skinchange direwolves. 

But I'm talking about the literal singing the CotF do ("below" Bran when he's on his weirwood throne).  There's no instance of Bran participating in that, and while we can choose to refer metaphorically to skinchanging as singing, that's our concept -- not the CotF's concept, as given in the text. 

The World book account of Brandon the Builder learning to understand the True Tongue is interesting, but even that doesn't say Brandon the Builder became a singer himself.

Also, nomenclaturally, the CotF would surely have a name for their own species... just as we do... to distinguish themselves from all other creatures.  And we've been told what it is.  In Leaf's mind, men are men, giants are giants, and singers are singers.  Bran's behavior as a skinchanger/greenseer is not going to transform him into their species for the same reason Leaf can't become a human being or a giant, no matter what she does.

If the argument is that to skinchangers the whole concept of species has no meaning, that's clearly not the case.  Because they certainly do know the difference between weirwoods and other trees, the difference between lions and mammoths, etc.  They would know the difference between themselves and all other species and they would require a name to reflect that difference.

Here's another problem.  If skinchanging means singing, then clearly Bloodraven should be a singer as well.  But Leaf never calls him a singer, just as she never calls Bran a singer.  Bloodraven is like Bran -- a greenseer, a skinchanger, someone born with extraordinary skinchanging gifts -- but that's apparently it.

19 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

So, the True Tongue =the song of stones=the song of the wind=the song of the rain.

Do you think our Brandon might be able to communicate using any of these dialects?

He would have to be skinchanging a creature that has suitable anatomy (which men don't) such as a raven or CotF, and he would also have to know the True Tongue (which he doesn't). 

So it's conceivable, yes, but even then the CotF would still have needed a name for their species.

19 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

I also have an inkling that the other less euphemistic name for 'the song of the earth' is 'the murderer's song'...  Don't be fooled.

  We'll see.  The notion of the CotF as mass murderers is one of the oldest in Heresy, far older than your participation in Heresy... and it has always been, I'm afraid, incorrect.

[JNR]

17 hours ago, Matthew. said:

I don't know, what you describe here doesn't seem that far a cry from what skinchangers do.

What skinchangers do is absolutely, positively noticed by the entity being skinchanged.  

Think back to Varamyr trying to assume command of Thistle:

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He summoned all the strength still in him, leapt out of his own skin, and forced himself inside her.

Thistle arched her back and screamed.

Also, of course, the skinchanger then becomes the entity who speaks on behalf of the body:

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No one ever knew when he was wearing Hodor's skin. Bran only had to smile, do as he was told, and mutter "Hodor" from time to time, and he could follow Meera and Jojen, grinning happily, without anyone suspecting it was really him.

But we know Bran retains control of his own voice throughout this chapter.

The idea that Leaf could surreptitiously skinchange Bran in such a way that Bran would not even notice, or mention it, or think about it, thus explicitly contradicts the text in multiple ways. 

And since this is a Bran POV chapter, we have direct access to his thoughts!  If his hand had started acting on its own initiative, or if his voice had started saying things he never thought or wanted it to say... he would absolutely have noticed that, or said something, or thought about it at some point in the same chapter.

But he never does...

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

Hello fellow heretics. I just posted the final part of my personal grand theory concerning Bloodraven over in the main forum and wanted to advertise it here, since it is quite heretical in nature  

Enjoy

[ravenous reader]

1 hour ago, JNR said:

He's a skinchanger and the direwolves do something that we can call singing, and Bran can skinchange direwolves. 

But I'm talking about the literal singing the CotF do ("below" Bran when he's on his weirwood throne).  There's no instance of Bran participating in that, and while we can choose to refer metaphorically to skinchanging as singing, that's our concept -- not the CotF's concept, as given in the text. 

Of course you're talking about the 'literal singing' -- you prefer to stick strictly to the literal, whereas I like reading between the lines and intuiting connections, after which you use the literal against me in order to prove me wrong, so we're unlikely to find consensus (although I do appreciate your whipsmart sense of humor in which you occasionally loose your grip on the literal).  

I agree that we don't see Bran participating in that singing, although the ravens 'kissing' his arms with their beaks (in time to the music, or prompted by a signal in the music rising up to them?) seem to be urging Bran to join in!

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"Some books. I like the fighting stories. My sister Sansa likes the kissing stories, but those are stupid."

"A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies," said Jojen. "The man who never reads lives only one. The singers of the forest had no books. No ink, no parchment, no written language. Instead they had the trees, and the weirwoods above all. When they died, they went into the wood, into leaf and limb and root, and the trees remembered. All their songs and spells, their histories and prayers, everything they knew about this world. Maesters will tell you that the weirwoods are sacred to the old gods. The singers believe they are the old gods. When singers die they become part of that godhood."

Bran's eyes widened. "They're going to kill me?"

When Bran weds the tree, or slips the skin of the tree, what else is that but 'going into the wood, into leaf and limb and root'?  Once he's joined to the tree, he has access to 'all their songs and spells' which the trees remember (it's a giant archive of collective knowledge); so although Bran is not of the 'singer' species technically, he can partake in their language and potentially 'sing their songs'.  Think of it as a human having access to the singers' library!

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The World book account of Brandon the Builder learning to understand the True Tongue is interesting, but even that doesn't say Brandon the Builder became a singer himself.

The True Tongue is a Song.  We've been told that in a number of ways...'song of the earth...song of stones...song of wind...song of water.'  So speaking it is a kind of 'singing'!  I was not arguing that Brandon became another species, just that when he sings their song -- the one they taught him -- he becomes a singer of sorts!

There's one verb here -- 'sing' -- and GRRM uses it ambiguously, regardless of your attempts to pigeonhole it.

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Also, nomenclaturally, the CotF would surely have a name for their own species... just as we do... to distinguish themselves from all other creatures.  And we've been told what it is.  In Leaf's mind, men are men, giants are giants, and singers are singers.  Bran's behavior as a skinchanger/greenseer is not going to transform him into their species for the same reason Leaf can't become a human being or a giant, no matter what she does.

Agreed.

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If the argument is that to skinchangers the whole concept of species has no meaning, that's clearly not the case.  Because they certainly do know the difference between weirwoods and other trees, the difference between lions and mammoths, etc.  They would know the difference between themselves and all other species and they would require a name to reflect that difference.

Here's another problem.  If skinchanging means singing, then clearly Bloodraven should be a singer as well.  But Leaf never calls him a singer, just as she never calls Bran a singer.  Bloodraven is like Bran -- a greenseer, a skinchanger, someone born with extraordinary skinchanging gifts -- but that's apparently it.

The strongest argument yet.  Yet insofar as greenseers learn to sing, they become singers, just not the species 'singer.'  

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The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Long Night

As the First Men established their realms following the Pact, little troubled them save their own feuds and wars, or so the histories tell us. It is also from these histories that we learn of the Long Night, when a season of winter came that lasted a generation—a generation in which children were born, grew into adulthood, and in many cases died without ever seeing the spring. Indeed, some of the old wives' tales say that they never even beheld the light of day, so complete was the winter that fell on the world. While this last may well be no more than fancy, the fact that some cataclysm took place many thousands of years ago seems certain. Lomas Longstrider, in his Wonders Made by Man, recounts meeting descendants of the Rhoynar in the ruins of the festival city of Chroyane who have tales of a darkness that made the Rhoyne dwindle and disappear, her waters frozen as far south as the joining of the Selhoru. According to these tales, the return of the sun came only when a hero convinced Mother Rhoyne's many children—lesser gods such as the Crab King and the Old Man of the River—to put aside their bickering and join together to sing a secret song that brought back the day.

Were all these tribes singing the secret song singers?  No, some of them are men, who are singers.

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The World of Ice and Fire - Dorne: The Breaking

Many maesters find Cassander's arguments plausible and have come to accept his views. But whether the Breaking took place in a single night, or over the course of centuries, there can be no doubt that it occurred; the Stepstones and the Broken Arm of Dorne give mute but eloquent testimony to its effects. There is also much to suggest that the Sea of Dorne was once an inland freshwater sea, fed by mountain streams and much smaller than it is today, until the narrow sea burst its bounds and drowned the salt marshes that lay between.

Even if we accept that the old gods broke the Arm of Dorne with the Hammer of the Waters, as the legends claim, the greenseers sang their song too late.

What 'song' is this, and where did they learn it?

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He would have to be skinchanging a creature that has suitable anatomy (which men don't) such as a raven or CotF, and he would also have to know the True Tongue (which he doesn't). 

You're right; his vocalizations are limited by the 'voice apparatus' of the particular creature skinchanged.  He's skinchanging a tree, so he's singing the song of wind through leaves, otherwise known as the preternatural 'rustling'!  I differ from you in that I've interpreted this as the True Tongue.  Bran is part of the tree so he has access to all that knowledge.  He's 'one with the library', immediate download and all that, as I've mentioned!

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So it's conceivable, yes, but even then the CotF would still have needed a name for their species.

  We'll see.  The notion of the CotF as mass murderers is one of the oldest in Heresy, far older than your participation in Heresy... and it has always been, I'm afraid, incorrect.

I don't think the CotF are mass murderers.  But humans are; and they used the song they learnt from the singers to kill (hence the greenseer wars).

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"Gone down into the earth," she answered. "Into the stones, into the trees. Before the First Men came all this land that you call Westeros was home to us, yet even in those days we were few. The gods gave us long lives but not great numbers, lest we overrun the world as deer will overrun a wood where there are no wolves to hunt them. That was in the dawn of days, when our sun was rising. Now it sinks, and this is our long dwindling. The giants are almost gone as well, they who were our bane and our brothers. The great lions of the western hills have been slain, the unicorns are all but gone, the mammoths down to a few hundred. The direwolves will outlast us all, but their time will come as well. In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us."

She seemed sad when she said it, and that made Bran sad as well. It was only later that he thought, Men would not be sad. Men would be wroth. Men would hate and swear a bloody vengeance. The singers sing sad songs, where men would fight and kill.

For me 'song' is synonymous with magic.  It's not limited to a specific species.  Bran is practising that magic for example when he speaks via rustling to Theon on a windless night.  Bran is singing and the 'wind' created is his figurative 'breath' passing through the wooden 'wind instrument' of the tree.

Finally, there's the evidence of the sentence which you're asserting (rather conveniently) is a typo.  If it isn't however, then we're left with having to explain 'He raised his hand, and the other singers began to move...' in which 'the other singers' ambiguously refers not only to Leaf as singer, but to Bran himself as the primary subject of the sentence.

[Black Crow]

1 hour ago, JNR said:

What skinchangers do is absolutely, positively noticed by the entity being skinchanged.  

Think back to Varamyr trying to assume command of Thistle:

Also, of course, the skinchanger then becomes the entity who speaks on behalf of the body:

But we know Bran retains control of his own voice throughout this chapter.

The idea that Leaf could surreptitiously skinchange Bran in such a way that Bran would not even notice, or mention it, or think about it, thus explicitly contradicts the text in multiple ways. 

And since this is a Bran POV chapter, we have direct access to his thoughts!  If his hand had started acting on its own initiative, or if his voice had started saying things he never thought or wanted it to say... he would absolutely have noticed that, or said something, or thought about it at some point in the same chapter.

But he never does...

But unlike Thistle he has consented and he has eaten the paste. The two are not comparable, for the point here is not that Bran's body is being taken over, as Varamyr attempted to do with Thistle, but that the body is becoming irrelevant.

[LynnS]

On 2017-05-22 at 11:23 AM, ravenous reader said:

The watchers moved forward together, as if some signal had been given. Swords rose and fell, all in a deathly silence. It was cold butchery. The pale blades sliced through ringmail as if it were silk. Will closed his eyes. Far beneath him, he heard their voices and laughter sharp as icicles.

It's an interesting turn of phrase to characterize the WW as the watchers.  Leaf's compatriots are also watching and we could extend that to watching via weirwood tree.  Not all trees have a face, but we are given to understand that the purpose of giving faces to trees is so that someone can bare witness.   The drunken ash, old chestnut and oak tree appear to have the face of the one sacrificed by the wildlings; but there isn't a skinchanger attached to their roots.  The blood sacrifice suggests that trees with faces become gateways and portals to be used by greenseers travelling the weirnet web.

When Bran breaks his connection to the weirnet, a torch is lit immediately.  How does Leaf know that he is no longer under the influence without Bran speaking a word?  I think it's possible that the cotf travel with Bran as 'watchers' and that he is unaware of heir presence.  Leaf asks Bran what he has seen, but I'm not so sure she doesn't already know --  "A thousand eyes and (the) one."

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A Storm of Swords - Bran IV

Meera was untangling the fat brother. Jojen went to the well and peered down. "Where did you come from?"

"From Craster's," the girl said. "Are you the one?"

Jojen turned to look at her. "The one?"

"He said that Sam wasn't the one," she explained. "There was someone else, he said. The one he was sent to find."

 

When Patchface says that 'under the sea, the crows are white as snow';  I think he's saying that the cotf are the crows in question and that they are white as snow in their guise as White Walkers.     

The exchange between Gilly and BranCo is interesting because not only has Coldhands been sent to find 'the one';  Bran is looking the 'the crow'.  Once again it's Patchface who identifies the crow when he sees Jon Snow for the first time.

"The crow, the crow... under the sea, the crows are white as snow."

The 3EC also shows up when the torches go out, adding ambiguity, since in the darkness, the reader isn't shown who is speaking.  The immediate assumption is that it's Bloodraven.  It's a curious detail that in the HBO show, BR is referred to as the three-eyed raven rather than the three-eyed crow. 

[Matthew.]

1 hour ago, JNR said:

The idea that Leaf could surreptitiously skinchange Bran in such a way that Bran would not even notice, or mention it, or think about it, thus explicitly contradicts the text in multiple ways. 

This is why I made the comparison to Dany's experience while she's on Shade of the Evening; it may be that Bran's state of mind is altered to a degree that he would not notice if the line between himself, the Singers, weirnet, etc. is becoming blurred.
Basic logic and human experience contradicts the idea that a person could, under normal circumstances, be fed upon without noticing, but Dany's circumstances were not normal, and I think it's worth considering that Bran's circumstances were not normal either.

We cannot reasonably determine what represents a "contradictory" experience under the influence of weirwood paste, because we have no prior experience to draw upon

Similarly, this whole "in five books, this supernatural power of the CotF is not shown or hinted at..." line of argument is flawed because we haven't been shown the CotF until Bran II/III in ADWD the first place, and the myths were missing several notable details: that greenseers physically merge with trees, that the CotF have extraordinary lifespans, that greenseers can look into the past, that the old gods are the spirits that have gone into the wood, etc. It's an argument that presumes new information must be foreshadowed or hinted at--yet the author is already violating that standard.

That said, I should make it clear that I am attempting to engage in good faith with a line of speculation that other posters have raised, and draw a comparison to another substance that alters the subject's state of consciousness; personally, I don't think there's anything notable about the line where Bran raises his hand, nor do I think he was being physically controlled at that point. IMO, it's more likely that Bran was just raising his hand in a "whoa, I feel weird" kind of way, or (as you say) that line was missing an S, or that Bran was giving a pre-agreed upon signal that he's ready to be left alone.

[The Fattest Leech]

26 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

But unlike Thistle he has consented and he has eaten the paste. The two are not comparable, for the point here is not that Bran's body is being taken over, as Varamyr attempted to do with Thistle, but that the body is becoming irrelevant.

Exactly. George does this in A Song for Lya. The bell ringers are the ones who "lure" new recruits in with the song of the bells, and once you "learn" the song of the bells, you are absorbed into the hive mind as a consciousness and your body is no longer relevant. Once you are absorbed into the hive matter, it is pure love and bliss and everything all at once. Some serious kool-aid is a flowin' down in those caves.

 

 

By the way: how long do I have to get you the Citadel write up? I am working on it a bit at a time, but I am falling behind in real life work, so the process is slower than I prefer. If someone else gets something ready first, have a go at it because mine will be along shortly thereafter.

Now, back to writing my own children's book and making lots of Jackalopes to fill some orders!

[Black Crow]

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Exactly. George does this in A Song for Lya. The bell ringers are the ones who "lure" new recruits in with the song of the bells, and once you "learn" the song of the bells, you are absorbed into the hive mind as a consciousness and your body is no longer relevant. Once you are absorbed into the hive matter, it is pure love and bliss and everything all at once. Some serious kool-aid is a flowin' down in those caves.

A very apposite parallel 

As to the Citadel, this is page 9 and it would be great to have something by the time we reach 20 but how long that will take depends on the present piece of string. 

[ravenous reader]

7 hours ago, LynnS said:

On 5/22/2017 at 11:23 AM, ravenous reader said:

The watchers moved forward together, as if some signal had been given.

Swords rose and fell, all in a deathly silence. It was cold butchery. The pale blades sliced through ringmail as if it were silk. Will closed his eyes. Far beneath him, he heard their voices and laughter sharp as icicles.

It's an interesting turn of phrase to characterize the WW as the watchers. 

Yes, there's a curious mirroring of greenseer and Others.  Will the 'far-eyes' peering from the sentinel is the Bran-greenseer equivalent here with the Others-COTF similarly watching.  From his vantage point hidden up the tree (clear weirwood/greenseer parallel), Will 'whispers the prayer to the nameless gods of the wood' = Others, thereby summoning the Others.  6 Others (1 leader + 5 followers) + 3 brothers (1 leader + 2 followers)  = 9, the same number as the trees in the weirwood circle north of the Wall (also called 'watchers' btw), and the number of iron spikes on the crown of the King of Winter.

P.S.  What is your opinion on what exactly the 'signal' in question was, whether employed deliberately or not, that 'set off the watchers' in unison?

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Leaf's compatriots are also watching and we could extend that to watching via weirwood tree.  Not all trees have a face, but we are given to understand that the purpose of giving faces to trees is so that someone can bare witness.   The drunken ash, old chestnut and oak tree appear to have the face of the one sacrificed by the wildlings; but there isn't a skinchanger attached to their roots.  The blood sacrifice suggests that trees with faces become gateways and portals to be used by greenseers travelling the weirnet web.

Yes, this is the equivalent of Dany's 'red door' -- think of the 'red door' involved as the red mouth (or vagina) of the weirwood permitting entry via a sacrifice (analogous to 'black gate' though i'm not sure why it's white and not red).  In the Prologue the blood sacrifice required to 'activate the portal' or 'awaken the powers' is the 'wedding' of the greenseer to the tree in which Will gets the 'sticky sap' (symbolic of his brother's and/or his own blood) on his face and hands.  The appearance of the Others out of the wood  (the same into which Will has gone) is linked to the greenseer uttering the spells/songs/whispers/rustles, etc. from the tree.

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When Bran breaks his connection to the weirnet, a torch is lit immediately.  How does Leaf know that he is no longer under the influence without Bran speaking a word?  I think it's possible that the cotf travel with Bran as 'watchers' and that he is unaware of heir presence. 

Yes, that's why the 3 brothers in the Prologue -- well at least 2 of them -- are aware of being shadowed while they are in the woods.  The actual bloodbath, however, only gets started in earnest once the greenseer says the words.

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Leaf asks Bran what he has seen, but I'm not so sure she doesn't already know --  "A thousand eyes and (the) one."

That's an interesting re-interpretation of the 1001 eyes -- I like it!  Given the 'hive mind' in which experiences are shared collectively, it's not surprising that Bran's vision is simultaneously distributed across the network.  For some reason, however, the 1000 can not do this by themselves without the 1 greenseer to orchestrate it.  Any ideas on why that should be the case?

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A Storm of Swords - Bran IV

Meera was untangling the fat brother. Jojen went to the well and peered down. "Where did you come from?"

"From Craster's," the girl said. "Are you the one?"

Jojen turned to look at her. "The one?"

"He said that Sam wasn't the one," she explained. "There was someone else, he said. The one he was sent to find."

When Patchface says that 'under the sea, the crows are white as snow';  I think he's saying that the cotf are the crows in question and that they are white as snow in their guise as White Walkers.     

I like that.  The trees are often described wearing white mantles, cloaks, coats.

'Under the sea, the merwives wear nennymoans in their hair and weave gowns of silver seaweed.'

The 'gowns' could then, as you've indicated, refer to the camouflage worn by the COTF in their White Walker guise. Furthermore, the 'seaweed' in question is a pun on 'see-weed' -- since we're talking about the spells placed on the greenseers, which is compared to taking a kind of psychotropic, mind- and reality-altering substance, as the weirwood bole and shade of the evening both suggest!

In terms of the Others being transformed 'crows', @Unchained has also brought up the idea of a 'parliament of crows' -- or 'murder of crows' -- referring to the observed phenomenon in nature of one crow being judged by a group of others, almost as if they were acting as collective judge, jury, and executioner.  If the 'defendant' crow is found guilty, then 'at some unknown signal' the others descend on him and tear him to bits (akin to the ritualised 'cold butchery' of the Prologue).  Therefore, I'm wondering if that would rather suggest that the Others represent human greenseers (former Night's Watch men = crows) rather than COTF.  What do you think?

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The exchange between Gilly and BranCo is interesting because not only has Coldhands been sent to find 'the one';  Bran is looking the 'the crow'.  Once again it's Patchface who identifies the crow when he sees Jon Snow for the first time.

"The crow, the crow... under the sea, the crows are white as snow."

The head crow would correspond to the Night's Watch commander ('King Crow'), the Night's King; with the Others under his control somehow.  Except, as demonstrated via the allegory in the Prologue, those Others went rogue and in @cgrav words 'the seance got out of hand' and backfired on the greenseer who had 'summoned the demons' so casually -- hence, the 'lazy parry,' as reflected in the decisive blow, ultimately leading to Waymar's resurrection and Will's death.

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The 3EC also shows up when the torches go out, adding ambiguity, since in the darkness, the reader isn't shown who is speaking.  The immediate assumption is that it's Bloodraven.  It's a curious detail that in the HBO show, BR is referred to as the three-eyed raven rather than the three-eyed crow. 

I don't think Bloodraven is the 3EC.  But -- GRRM doesn't lie, even when he's being coy and cagey, so the 3EC is 'related to the Targaryeans...'  hmmm Lynn? and other 'heretics'?   (I am still waiting for you to comment on Howland as Jon's father -- you are not let off the hook..!)  

6 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Exactly. George does this in A Song for Lya. The bell ringers are the ones who "lure" new recruits in with the song of the bells, and once you "learn" the song of the bells, you are absorbed into the hive mind as a consciousness and your body is no longer relevant. Once you are absorbed into the hive matter, it is pure love and bliss and everything all at once. Some serious kool-aid is a flowin' down in those caves.

Interesting Leech!  Could you explain what form 'learning the song' takes in that context?  Might it be analogous to 'learning the True Tongue'?  Are you implying the bells are used to effect some form of hypnosis (like the Pied Piper of Hamelin as @Pain killer Jane has suggested)?

[The Fattest Leech]

 

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

Interesting Leech!  Could you explain what form 'learning the song' takes in that context?  Might it be analogous to 'learning the True Tongue'?  Are you implying the bells are used to effect some form of hypnosis (like the Pied Piper of Hamelin as @Pain killer Jane has suggested)?

I can try, it is described in long detail about 4-5 times in the story, so give me a second to find some good books quotes to back up what I am (disastrously) explaining. The last time I read this story was about a year ago, and in general, my long term memory sucks. (car accident)

Also, if anyone else wants to step and clarify what I say, have at it.

The CotF are like the Shkeen in the story. The weirwood net is like the Greeshka in this story. The shkeen are passive, but their numbers on this planet are growing, and so are a bunch of weird occurrences. In addition to their being lots of Shkeen children running around, the Shkeen themselves are described as childlike. They are much more like a cult. This main city of the Shkeen, it has no name and it is more ancient than our ancient days. The Shkeen come to this city for final "union". Union is when they are absorbed in to the weirwood Greeshka, which is huge, jelly-like mass that has some sort of a conscious calling. Two telepaths are called in to the city to investigate what the weirdness is going on, and why people are disappearing. These two are Robb and Lyanna (Lya).

There are lots of descriptions like, "her mind was a forest," and, "as her mind opened, so so her body and I entered her." Then there are lines such as, "I felt pleasure washing over me in great glorious waves, my pleasure, her pleasure, both together building on each other, and I rode the crest for an eternity as it approached a far distant shore. And finally as it smashed into that beach, we came together, and for a second-- for a tiny, fleeting second-- I could not tell which orgasm was mine, and which was hers." As wonderful as this event is, this is just the beginning of what a "union" with the Greeshka is like. (Also, this sounds like Asha)

I guess the bells could maybe be a little like the Pied Piper, but it does not seem to work on everyone. Normals do not seem to hear it. It is not one sound, or song, that everyone hears and they flick into action. There is a line that says it worked on this one character only because he was a "broken man." It is like the bells activate the people who are susceptible to the process. Lya describes a character she has read as, "He's happy Robb. He really is. For the first time in his life, he's happy. He'd never known love before. Now it fills him." Lya gives the most descriptive explanation of the feeling, but it is about two full pages long... and she does it in a very non-tradtional/Georgesque way

Robb describes the sound of the bells (in his opinion) as, "the noise of the bells was smashing against my ears as the joy and the love and the feel of the bells assaulted my mind once again. I lingered to savor it...." Robb goes on about it a lot in this moment.

Oh, I almost forgot, the Greeshka start out as a blob on your head/back of the neck. Apparently it is not painful, but a glorious happy union. It lives off the blood of the person until it starts to eat the flesh. Those who have a Greeshka head blob are called the Joined. They live in love and music. They wander the streets and talk and sing and give out food.

Ok, there is so very much more to this, but I don't want to spoil everything for anyone who has not read the story yet. It is well worth a read, and it is a short novella, so a few hours at most.

Oh, and meatrolls

[aDanceWithFlagons]

On 5/21/2017 at 6:05 AM, Black Crow said:

I suspect that some of the discussion here may be hampered not by terminology but by an inflexible interpretation of that terminology.

The Nights Watch we meet at the outset of the story is a large organisation which although much decayed still requires a Lord Commander, who in effect is comparable to a king, albeit a petty one. If, as we have discussed in the past, the Night Fort was originally built to protect the magical portal we know as the Black Gate, then the Night's Watch by extension may have been guarding the gate rather than the Wall. Its a discussion we've had before but the point I'm making here is that if the Night's King was the leader of a sworn brotherhood of 13 rather than an army of 1300 or 13,000 then the nature of the post is rather different.

Furthermore there is the title, whether or not the King of Winter and the Night's King are one and the same or completely different, the nature of their sovereignty is the same, but neither are a prince of the earth. They have dominion over a concept or a power; Night or Winter - or Ice, not an earthly kingdom. The number of their subjects is immaterial for they have none; they do not sit upon a throne, wear a crown, hold lands...

Yeah, that's it in a large nutshell.

I'd say that the original usage of the Black Gate was to enter, or leave, the Heart of Winter. At least in the era of the Night's King. (Who knows where Bran landed on the other side when passing through, or if it always led there.) Whether as an agreement or as an outpost to gaurd the portal, it's a coin toss. Yet the idea that the Night's King spotted his cold bride south of the Wall would make good sense if the Gate were being guarded and the 'woman' slipped through to be caught and bound. Better yet, that he, the NK, passed through the portal to claim his prize north of the Wall. (cough~Bran~cough) 

Either way, The Night's King supposedly did some unscrupulous things after catching his 'white woman' and I'd say she was from the Heart of Winter. Whoever or whatever she may be.

[Unchained]

2 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

I like that.  The trees are often described wearing white mantles, cloaks, coats.

'Under the sea, the merwives wear nennymoans in their hair and weave gowns of silver seaweed.'

The 'gowns' could then, as you've indicated, refer to the camouflage worn by the COTF in their White Walker guise. Furthermore, the 'seaweed' in question is a pun on 'see-weed' -- since we're talking about the spells placed on the greenseers, which is compared to taking a kind of psychotropic, mind- and reality-altering substance, as the weirwood bole and shade of the evening both suggest!

In terms of the Others being transformed 'crows', @Unchained has also brought up the idea of a 'parliament of crows' -- or 'murder of crows' -- referring to the observed phenomenon in nature of one crow being judged by a group of others, almost as if they were acting as collective judge, jury, and executioner.  If the 'defendant' crow is found guilty, then 'at some unknown signal' the others descend on him and tear him to bits (akin to the ritualised 'cold butchery' of the Prologue).  Therefore, I'm wondering if that would rather suggest that the Others represent human greenseers (former Night's Watch men = crows) rather than COTF.  What do you think?

I have thought of that quote as saying that the Others are the under-the-sea equivalent to the NW.  They are the watchers who fight for the realm of not-men.  I have had an unhealthy aversion to the CotF being the source of the Others for too long.  I was fine with them being involved, but, just like Tywin not being Tyrion's biological dad, I think I am changing my mind.  I still think it is more than just them however.

 

I like silver seaweed having something to do with the reflective armor.  I think merwives = NQ in some way, so they should help them I guess.  

 

I really want to figure out the trials.  Waymar is found unworthy.  I think Viserys is too.  

 

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When the sun of her life reached her, Dany slid an arm around his waist. The khal said a word, and his bloodriders leapt forward. Qotho seized the man who had been her brother by the arms. Haggo shattered his wrist with a single, sharp twist of his huge hands. Cohollo pulled the sword from his limp fingers. Even now Viserys did not understand. "No," he shouted, "you cannot touch me, I am the dragon, the dragon, and I will be crowned!" 

  

Dany at this time is only ok at understanding Dothraki, so maybe it is nothing.  Earlier in this chapter she connot understand something Drogo says, but it is a dozen fast words.  It almost seems like that was camoflage to hide the fact that Drogo says a killing word which we do not get to know.  He is seized by bloodriders which I think is pretty close to Kingsguard and Others.  Also, Waymar's cloak is his "crowning" glory.    

 

Janos also seems to be.  He is taken captive by 7 gold cloaks, the leader of which has a metal hand, reminding of LC Jaime.  He is sent to become a crow with 6 others, one of which is drowned on the way.  I assume this is all heading to Jon being found worthy.  I have seen it said (I know in Red Dragon but I think elsewhere), that being stabbed is like slipping into a warm bath.  Jon "only felt the cold".  Gared described freezing as slipping into warm milk, and that all sounds like drowning to me.  Maybe the unworthy ones are like the dreamers who don't fly in Bran's coma dream and are impaled on th ice spikes.  I don't think Jon will be a greenseer when we comes back, but he may become much more Bran's other half or something like that.     

 

I also really like the bells as something luring people into the WWnet.  I never did figure why there were so many bells at "King's pyre" scenes, Stannis' LB forging, Dragon hatching, Red wedding, Purple wedding, etc...  There are a bunch of ringing bells controlling people at Norvos where the people in charge marry ash wood spears.         

[JNR]

13 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

There's one verb here -- 'sing' -- and GRRM uses it ambiguously, regardless of your attempts to pigeonhole it.

Well, it's undoubtedly true singing is used ambiguously -- just look at the series title!  We agree there.

But in context, we're talking about a longer and more specific phrase, and I'm not doing the pigeonholing; it's the CotF:

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"The First Men named us children," the little woman said. "The giants called us woh dak nag gran, the squirrel people, because we were small and quick and fond of trees, but we are no squirrels, no children. Our name in the True Tongue means those who sing the song of earth."

So let's clarify this a bit.  The First Men named them children; this obviously means all members of the species to which Leaf belongs (not skinchangers).  The giants called them squirrel people; this obviously has the same meaning, all the members of that species (not skinchangers).  In both cases the chosen term -- children or squirrels -- was meant to reflect the small size common to them all (not skinchanging).

Then Leaf says their own name for the same concept -- all members of her species, and not skinchangers -- is different.  It is "those who sing the song of earth."

This is why I'm pretty confident that that phrase means, uniquely, the people frequently referred to on this site as CotF.  Ergo, it doesn't mean Bran, and it doesn't mean Brandon the Builder, and that's why there are no other human instances of such usage to be found.  They are instead called men, or greenseers if they have those capabilities.

So let's look at the sentence in which this came up for context:

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He raised a hand, and the other singers began to move about the cavern, extinguishing the torches one by one.

...which was the reason all this came up.   "Singers" used here is plainly short for the longer phrase "singers of the song of earth," which Leaf has explained to us means her whole species and not Bran's.  So the paste did not transform Bran into a singer as the word is used there.

BTW, I pointed this bit out to another analyst (with whom I've been discussing these books for many years).  She not only agrees that this is likely a typo... and the word GRRM meant was she... but points out there is another very similar typo in the same chapter:

Quote

Bran did want to be married to a tree … but who else would wed a broken boy like him?

What's happened here is much the same as the above, I think.  Because we all know Bran did not want to be married to a tree.

Instead, GRRM just failed to type some characters -- 'nt -- and that mistake got past spellcheck, and Anne Groell too.  And so we were left with something that's not a mystery, but an oopsy. 

[JNR]

13 hours ago, Black Crow said:

But unlike Thistle he has consented and he has eaten the paste. The two are not comparable, for the point here is not that Bran's body is being taken over, as Varamyr attempted to do with Thistle, but that the body is becoming irrelevant.

Any way you slice it, Bran has no remote clue that his hand is going to start doing things that he didn't want it to do, and that he can't override. 

When he sees his hand lifted up, he knows perfectly well he isn't responsible.  He should be shocked senseless. 

He isn't; he never says a thing about it; he never even thinks a thing about it. 

It's just not even close to plausible to me, though apparently it is to you, that Bran could be skinchanged... without ever having been told any such thing would happen!... and that he wouldn't notice, say anything, or think anything about it.  We're right there in his head the whole chapter, after all.

But it is quite plausible to me that GRRM failed to type an S.