Callan S. Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Well, so does he. It's reaching a wider audience not just to have more facebook friends. It seems to be to prod at a bunch of issues he has with society, of which he seems to have a metric f' ton. For someone who's decided to fight a war on multiple fronts at once, he's doing pretty well. If he actually sold out, he'd do incredibly well. Though he would lose his soul, he'd gain the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 6 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: I was thinking more about how his interactions online, both recently and in the past, have driven a lot of people away. and I live under a bridge Come on, you can be more negative dude. It feels like your posts are only 90% full of venom and constant negativity towards Bakker. Surely you can go the extra mile and add a bit more disgust and condemnation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
End of Disc One Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I haven't read the recent AMA yet, but I've only seen Bakker act cordial towards his readers. Maybe he has a high opinion of his own work, but I mostly do too. And I think his mind is in a totally different place than everyone else's...reminds me of John Lennon's line, "no one I think is in my tree." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 11 hours ago, Callan S. said: But it'd also have to take into account he wants to reach a wide audience, not an echo chamber. So he'd have to be able to take the money but still potentially devote significant time to general publishing since it reaches a general audience. I don't think those things are incompatible. NK Jemisin runs a Patreon to help support her writing, while also publishing it for a broader audience. Bakker could do the same thing (assuming he has a publisher), or self-publish the books however he likes and release parts of them earlier for Patreon subscribers (if he doesn't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 5 hours ago, Calibandar said: Come on, you can be more negative dude. It feels like your posts are only 90% full of venom and constant negativity towards Bakker. Surely you can go the extra mile and add a bit more disgust and condemnation? Sorry I've been out of sorts. I'll ramp the negativity up a bit after lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 13 hours ago, Callan S. said: Well, so does he. It's reaching a wider audience not just to have more facebook friends. It seems to be to prod at a bunch of issues he has with society, of which he seems to have a metric f' ton. For someone who's decided to fight a war on multiple fronts at once, he's doing pretty well. If he actually sold out, he'd do incredibly well. Though he would lose his soul, he'd gain the world. the term "selling out" is just an Orwellian social construction to "keep you in your place" by making you think success is actually failure and failure is actually success. but Bakker would never realize that, holding tight to the idea that purity in failure is proof of success in *insert bullshit self serving concept here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 19 minutes ago, lokisnow said: the term "selling out" is just an Orwellian social construction to "keep you in your place" by making you think success is actually failure and failure is actually success. but Bakker would never realize that, holding tight to the idea that purity in failure is proof of success in *insert bullshit self serving concept here* Yes, but success at what? When I use the phrase 'selling out', I refer to the fact that the various companies who would pay to use your IP would not at all be interested in your IP if folk had not believed in your IP to begin with. Without their belief, the companies don't want to pay you anything for your IP. With their belief, the companies want to pay you to use your IP...and to do so is selling the belief folk had. The creator of Calvin and Hobbes didn't go into t-shirts and paraphernalia for this issue, I think. And in terms of pushing social issues, I think Bakker is right about complaints and that 'failure' - so often people hold contesting views, they complain because they are not used to being argued with on certain points. The 'failures' indicate hitting actual targets. The few times I've seen people raise an issue like a timeline error, something that wasn't trying to engage a (what Bakker thinks is a) problematic social issue, they've been polite and appreciative rather than it being a failure to engage them through the books. He only seems to 'fail' when running into the social targets he set out to run into. Say I don't like dog fights and write a book engaging that - if my book actually reaches people who run dog fights, they are going to complain. But I don't like dog fights, so is that a failure or is that a success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 No, if you set out to write a book that you say is full of meaning and then get to the end and tell everyone it was all actually meaningless and you had no idea what you were doing...that's failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 8 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: No, if you set out to write a book that you say is full of meaning and then get to the end and tell everyone it was all actually meaningless and you had no idea what you were doing...that's failure. Spoiler I looked up the 'narrative instincts' post. Doesn't seem to say it's all meaningless there. Just an absence of hard closure (I don't know if the end of the Soprano's was an issue as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Maybe you should read the entire AMA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 This discussion is straying a bit close to the spoiler topics... perhaps move it to other thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, Rhom said: This discussion is straying a bit close to the spoiler topics... perhaps move it to other thread? I don't think either of us is ever going to agree on anything, ever, but yeah we should move this to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Haven't gotten around to reading it yet, but the reviews on Amazon.com are hilariously divisive. I've honestly rarely seen a novel this divisive in response. Goodreads review lean more to the positive I noticed, but with a few deeply disappointed one in there as well. It seems to be a novel that people either rate 9 or 10 stars out of 10, or 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 29 minutes ago, Calibandar said: Haven't gotten around to reading it yet, but the reviews on Amazon.com are hilariously divisive. I've honestly rarely seen a novel this divisive in response. Goodreads review lean more to the positive I noticed, but with a few deeply disappointed one in there as well. It seems to be a novel that people either rate 9 or 10 stars out of 10, or 1. That sounds about right pre reading the Bakker AMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 I'm trying really hard to not let any of these Q&As/AMAs affect the score I gave it originally, but it is HARD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I wouldn't put too much weight on those Goodreads reviews, https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/627522336 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Not sure what your point is, or if there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Yeah, the point was I wouldn't put too much weight on those Goodreads reviews (maybe ratings would have been a better word here)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Goodreads rankings maybe? Yeah goodreads is a fascinating place sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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