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Suzanna Stormborn

[Book Spoilers] R+L=J, A+J=T and other theories on HBO V.4

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11 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

A dragon wont die like that in the books. That was Tyrions dragon. They gave it to the Night King (Matty Ice). So now they could easily leave out AJT, just like fAegon.

books and show have seriously diverged more than I thought they would. None of this episode will happen in the books at all!

I do prefere the show doing stuff like this because its less likely to spoil the books for me. I just accept the show as fanfiction with great cgi scenes.

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25 minutes ago, Tinker Tanner said:

I do prefere the show doing stuff like this because its less likely to spoil the books for me. I just accept the show as fanfiction with great cgi scenes.

Agreed. I feel better about them doing this fanfic version than spoiling the real story with bad writing.

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6 hours ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

A dragon wont die like that in the books. That was Tyrions dragon. They gave it to the Night King (Matty Ice). So now they could easily leave out AJT, just like fAegon.

books and show have seriously diverged more than I thought they would. None of this episode will happen in the books at all!

Why does everybody say it's Viserion? It is not explicitly said so in the episode and from the colours of his/her scales/eyes I would say it is more likely to be Rhaegal?

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3 hours ago, Jo Maltese said:

Why does everybody say it's Viserion? It is not explicitly said so in the episode and from the colours of his/her scales/eyes I would say it is more likely to be Rhaegal?

Because Awayforthelads said it was Viserion. I was watching the Inside the Episode segments, and I believe they never refer to the dragon that was killed by name. They only call it "the dragon."

This should be cleared up in 7x07 if the dragons make an appearance, though.

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3 hours ago, Jo Maltese said:

Why does everybody say it's Viserion? It is not explicitly said so in the episode and from the colours of his/her scales/eyes I would say it is more likely to be Rhaegal?

Weird how that happened - I couldn't find an explicit naming of Viserion either. I didn't watch the behind the scenes clip yet, about the ice battle - maybe someone said its name then? Seems like a strange omission for Dany not to say anything, and stranger if everyone assumed it was Viserion without evidence.

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3 hours ago, Jo Maltese said:

Why does everybody say it's Viserion? It is not explicitly said so in the episode and from the colours of his/her scales/eyes I would say it is more likely to be Rhaegal?

I once accidently clicked onto someone's 'Hidden comments:' a while back and it said 'From the leaks, we know Viserion will die.'. That's why I've assumed that it was Viserion. Plus, I always felt that if Jon were to ride a dragon, the most likely one for him to ride would be Rhaegal, given that it was named after his father.

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Alan Taylor (7x06) on Jon/Dany:

Quote

 

DEADLINE: With over 10 million viewers watching the 9 PM broadcast and growing each week, plus all those on the other platforms, I think it’s pretty clear they are going to stick around, if for nothing else to see what brews up between Jon and Dany…

TAYLOR: (Laughs) There’s been an inevitability to the two of them coming together. It’s been foreshadowed over and over again, and those who know the books know it’s inevitable, but that doesn’t tell you anything about how it’s going to play out or how it’s going to go. I remember when I was doing Season 1 and we were on location in Malta, and George R. R. Martin came to visit. He was sitting in a chair, and he was being really quite open about things that were to come…

DEADLINE: About Jon and Dany or Game of Thrones in general?

TAYLOR: Bit of both, but it was early days and nobody was paying attention to the show. We didn’t really know what a phenomenon it was going to be, and I think he was being less guarded than we’ve become since then. Anyways, he alluded to the fact that Jon and Dany were the point, kind of. That, at the time, there was a huge, vast array of characters, and Jon was a lowly, you know, bastard son. So it wasn’t clear to us at the time, but he did sort of say things that made it clear that the meeting and the convergence of Jon and Dany were sort of the point of the series.

So, I was happy that a big step forward was taken in the episode I got to do this season is where he has fallen for her both, you know, emotionally and politically I think. He recognizes what she’s capable of, and is ready to bend the knee as soon as his knees bend. There’s still a step further to go with them in terms of the romantic side of things and a lot more to play out in terms of how the politics and the power struggle will work, but it was at least a sort of solid step forward in that major arc.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Jo Maltese said:

Why does everybody say it's Viserion? It is not explicitly said so in the episode and from the colours of his/her scales/eyes I would say it is more likely to be Rhaegal?

Yeah I still think Viserion is meant for Tyrion in the books. I just meant Tyrion was supposed to get 1 of the 3 dragons and instead D&D gave it to the NK.

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38 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Yeah I still think Viserion is meant for Tyrion in the books. I just meant Tyrion was supposed to get 1 of the 3 dragons and instead D&D gave it to the NK.

Me too + I think Rhaegal is the one to be killed - somehow, in the books.

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I'm having a hard time equivocating Jon and Dany's future book relationship, as implied by the director, with George's comments about Jon being a "fire wight" that isn't really fully human any more. Maybe their convergence will be played completely differently in the books, but right now it seems rather paradoxical to me. 

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Okay, now it's official.  One dragon is dead.  So, the theory of 3 of our heroes riding the 3 dragons seems ever more unlikely unless you think the show killed a dragon who will not die in the books that will not be written?

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3 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Okay, now it's official.  One dragon is dead.  So, the theory of 3 of our heroes riding the 3 dragons seems ever more unlikely unless you think the show killed a dragon who will not die in the books that will not be written?

That is exactly what will happen. Show and book have diverged, not the same at all anymore.

 

I can safely say that not one minute from that episode last night will be in the books at all.

fucking olympic javelin thrower! no no no

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2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Okay, now it's official.  One dragon is dead.  So, the theory of 3 of our heroes riding the 3 dragons seems ever more unlikely unless you think the show killed a dragon who will not die in the books that will not be written?

Think it is a very strong possibility that one of the dragons will die during the second DotD.

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2 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

That is exactly what will happen. Show and book have diverged, not the same at all anymore.

 

I can safely say that not one minute from that episode last night will be in the books at all.

fucking olympic javelin thrower! no no no

The dragon may die differently, but I am a believer that wolves/dragons/Starks/Lannisters/Targaryens are all getting the same ending.  Summer will die for Bran.  Somehow Rickon and Shaggy Dog will die.  One of the dragons will die before being ridden by the 3 heroes.  In fact, since the only element of the episode that had any real emotional resonance was the dragon's death, it's a safe bet that it came from George.  Everything else was Suicide Squad/Pretty Little Liars/level stupidity and obviousness.

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I'm a little concerned that in the show every single Northern lord with the exception of Baby Mormont, Badass, is a traitorous cunt.

 

It seems impossible that GRRM, with all the seeding in the books of the North's almost ironclad loyalty to House Stark, that anything like this will happen.  But, I've somewhat given up on the author in terms of disappointing me with storylines I once thought were crackpot.  So, I guess the real Wyman Manderly could betray Rickon, and the rest of the Northern Lords could betray the Starks, but it seems really out there even now.

Either the North remembers, or it doesn't.

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I'm wondering if the convergence of Jon and Beric on the show means that somewhow Jon and LSH are destined to be reunited and her purpose is to make good on how she treated Jon when he was a kid, like if that is now part of her purpose.

 

I agree that maybe one of the dragons will die in DoD 2.0.  But absolutely nothing from that episode made any GD sense.

 

Also why aren't more ppl on this website talking about the show? I remember a few seasons ago it was like overwhelming posts all week, every week that the show was on. It's like no one gaf anymore.

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12 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

I'm wondering if the convergence of Jon and Beric on the show means that somewhow Jon and LSH are destined to be reunited and her purpose is to make good on how she treated Jon when he was a kid, like if that is now part of her purpose.

 

I agree that maybe one of the dragons will die in DoD 2.0.  But absolutely nothing from that episode made any GD sense.

 

Also why aren't more ppl on this website talking about the show? I remember a few seasons ago it was like overwhelming posts all week, every week that the show was on. It's like no one gaf anymore.

I have been watching the show and enjoying this season very much (other than this past episode -- Beyond the Wall -- which I did not care for much). But as far as this thread goes, RLJ is basically confirmed on the show -- so no point in debating the point -- and AJT has been discussed in terms of how the show might not be going in that direction and what it might mean for the books. But other threads on this site are dedicated to discussing the show directly -- and they get plenty of traffic. So the show is being discussed.

As to the assertion by some that if AJT is true in the books -- then it must be true on the show, I just am not as certain. And no, I am not "moving the goalposts" or "engaging in confirmation biased thinking." Rather I am watching how much D&D seem to be changing major elements of the plot and how D&D might think that introducing Tyrion as a Targ bastard might be too complicated and controversial to put forward on the show. 

If AJT is true in the books, without knowing how it plays out in the books, I cannot assess how radical a change the story would have to take to ignore that development. Sure AJT not being revealed on the show makes me less certain of AJT in the books -- but not to the point of being convinced of AJT not happening in the books. As @Lord Varys has stated, the changes made to how the dragons "bond" on the show compared to the books suggests that the use of the dragons might be playing out differently on the show -- and I have never been convinced that Tyrion will ride a dragon in the books and don't think AJT is necessarily being done to allow Tyrion to do so.

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13 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

I have been watching the show and enjoying this season very much (other than this past episode -- Beyond the Wall -- which I did not care for much). But as far as this thread goes, RLJ is basically confirmed on the show -- so no point in debating the point -- and AJT has been discussed in terms of how the show might not be going in that direction and what it might mean for the books. But other threads on this site are dedicated to discussing the show directly -- and they get plenty of traffic. So the show is being discussed.

As to the assertion by some that if AJT is true in the books -- then it must be true on the show, I just am not as certain. And no, I am not "moving the goalposts" or "engaging in confirmation biased thinking." Rather I am watching how much D&D seem to be changing major elements of the plot and how D&D might think that introducing Tyrion as a Targ bastard might be too complicated and controversial to put forward on the show. 

I meant on the Rant and Rave thread more than this one, it used to be hundreds of posts per day, and I still feel that posters have plenty to rant and rave about, to me it seems ppl do not care as much anymore.

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14 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

(...)

Rather I am watching how much D&D seem to be changing major elements of the plot and how D&D might think that introducing Tyrion as a Targ bastard might be too complicated and controversial to put forward on the show. 

(...)

Not sure D&D are too concerned with either controversy or [out of the blue]ness! :D

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