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Rothfuss XIII: Fan Angst Live Stream


Myrddin

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16 hours ago, Ninefingers said:

Depends on what kind of reader you are.

Do you like looking for easter eggs, theory crafting, and trying to unravel mysteries? If so, these books are for you. As thistlepong put so well once: "These books reward careful reading"

However, if you're not into rereads and are looking for something lighter, I'd wait until #3 comes out.

I have to say, out of all the series that people talk about having hidden 'Easter eggs', deeper mysteries, or being ripe for theories, it seems weird to me that Kingkiller has people doing this.  There isn't a lot of substance there, and I feel like Rothfuss has the story so incomplete after two books that it could go anywhere.  Maybe you'll be proven right in the end, but I just don't see anything there.   

Werthead's description above is much closer to how I read the first two novels.  The first one is even pretty good.  But I don't see much substance or subtlety to Rothfuss.  I'd argue that careful reading of them will be at best a waste of time and at worst lead you on a wild goose chase down a rabbit hole to the navelgazing lizardtwitch of your own brain.   And then you get to book two with ginger-on-SuperElf sex-ninja porn interludes to really ram home the idea that this is a scattered and unplanned sprawling mess of wish fullfillment.

So far we have a couple of fun reads that clumsily strive to be deeper than they manage to be.

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2 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

I have to say, out of all the series that people talk about having hidden 'Easter eggs', deeper mysteries, or being ripe for theories, it seems weird to me that Kingkiller has people doing this.  There isn't a lot of substance there, and I feel like Rothfuss has the story so incomplete after two books that it could go anywhere.  Maybe you'll be proven right in the end, but I just don't see anything there.   

I agree with this assessment as to perceived depth in the series. All that stood out to me about narrative mysteries in KKC was how little they had been developed two thirds into a purported trilogy. If there’s room for theorizing, it’s because the reader has about as much to go on at the end of TWMF as they did when the mysteries were first introduced in TNOTW.

I’ve seen TUC being brought up as a cautionary tale for theorizing and depth. As someone who had just gotten into TSA series in the months prior to TUC, I found my reading of fan discussions a lot more disorienting than usual. In reading the disappointed reactions to TUC I get the impression that it wasn’t just the years of waiting that caused people to overanalyze, but Bakker’s own comments about the series that led fans down paths that ended up being dead ends. Given that TSA is supposed to have a message that Bakker discusses in his other work, it’s understandable that fans were led down a few rabbit holes.

I’m not aware of any such author influenced goose chases regarding KKC. Has Rothfuss stoked anything in the past or are people just overanalyzing a text that has already been picked apart as much as possible in the years waiting for the next?  

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23 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Pffft if he has a copy of book 3 complete then I'm the queen of Spain.

Your Majesty, there was some discussion earlier in this thread suggesting that Rothfuss had a practically completed manuscript distributed to beta readers as early as 2013. Problem was, it apparently wasn't very good. As in, bad beyond salvage and Rothfuss had no idea what to do with it. Still hasn't, by some accounts. The post two posts above what was linked suggests a manuscript that wasn't even touched between 2013 and 2016.

Over the years (okay, one year and a couple of months) since I first read the books, I've come to the conclusion that the best way to approach the series is to read the first book and then try to imagine how the past and present fit together. Book two doesn't really tie anything up (it only elaborates what was said in book one, if I remember correctly), while also being a bit of a drag to read, and from what is known (or speculated) about book three, Rothfuss can't really explain what happened in between either. So at this point, your own imagination might be the best bet if you want to see the past and present tied together.

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3 hours ago, Werthead said:

The Name of the Wind is a decent book, enjoyably written with some interesting takes on standard material. Kvothe is an arsehole (he's basically Emo-Kellhus in college) but he's supposed to be and as long as that works for you, it's reasonable stuff.

The Wise Man's Fear is a significantly inferior work. Some stuff happens - a lot of it neckbear wish-fulfilment bullshit of the highest order - but none of it is consequential for the overall storyline. The writing goes a bit saccharine at time, the female characters turn into two dimensional filler and about 80% of the book is dominated by Kvothe's student finance woes. The book is highly readable - the really short chapters help - but after you finish you realise it was a bit of a nothing book that has put a titanic amount of weight on Book 3 to redeem the series.

No wonder Rothfuss would rather play video games and write comics.

Damn. Tough but fair.

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13 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Yeah wasn't that manuscript/beta reader thing thoroughly debunked?

Yeah, nobody can source the "beta readers hated it" thing.

But the existence of a manuscript that went to beta readers is legit. Rothfuss posted it on his google+ page.

LINK  (You have to scroll down to February 2013 because I'm to dumb to permalink to the exact right spot.)

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3 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

I don't see much substance or subtlety to Rothfuss.  I'd argue that careful reading of them will be at best a waste of time and at worst lead you on a wild goose chase down a rabbit hole to the navelgazing lizardtwitch of your own brain.

Is there deeper meaning, written on purpose by Rothfuss, in addition to the normal narrative of the story?

I'm not a talented enough reader to carry an informed opinion. However...

I held a strong dislike for Slow Regard of Silent Things. It's all from Auri's POV. Following along as she's feeling that this pipe is angry, and that broken railing is ashamed and this moonbeam just farted was powerfully annoying to read through. Nothing much happened, and insights regarding the novels were few. It was all sickeningly twee and stank of Rothfuss laboring to exhibit how clever he is. To say nothing of the opening author's note, which served up heaping doses of condescension and personal insecurity simultaneously.

And then I read through an analysis of the novella provided by Thistlepong. If someone who has the skills to provide a walkthrough like that, concludes that further informed navel gazing within the primary novels is not a total waste of time, I am inclined to hold out hope that Book Three will deliver, at least in part, on revealing some deeper substance and subtlety.

As you note, only Book Three can help us towards an answer.

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6 minutes ago, Seiche said:

To say nothing of the opening author's note,

I have never in my life seen someone fish for compliments harder. 

The guy must have crippling insecurity/anxiety. Goes a long way towards explaining the book three delay, IMO.

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1 hour ago, Ninefingers said:

I have never in my life seen someone fish for compliments harder. 

The guy must have crippling insecurity/anxiety. Goes a long way towards explaining the book three delay, IMO.

Kind of a shitty take on both his author's note and insecurity/anxiety in general. 

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But yeah Rothfuss needs to just finish this book if for no other reason than so he go on to write other, different books and actually grow as an author. Pointless to agonize over this third book so much because if he's a good enough writer, he should have conviction that he'll put out another great book one day -- even if this one (as increasingly seems to be the case) is too weighed down by having to end a trilogy written without much conception of what he was doing. 

Dude is obviously tormenting himself over this book to the point where it's suffocating his creativity, which is sad and sympathetic, but a certain point just get it over with one way or the other. 

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6 minutes ago, crowganic said:

But yeah Rothfuss needs to just finish this book if for no other reason than so he go on to write other, different books and actually grow as an author. Pointless to agonize over this third book so much because if he's a good enough writer, he should have conviction that he'll put out another great book one day -- even if this one (as increasingly seems to be the case) is too weighed down by having to end a trilogy written without much conception of what he was doing. 

Dude is obviously tormenting himself over this book to the point where it's suffocating his creativity, which is sad and sympathetic, but a certain point just get it over with one way or the other. 

Kind of a shitty take on both his creativity and what he should do in general.

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1 minute ago, Ninefingers said:

Kind of a shitty take on both his creativity and what he should do in general.

Diagnosing somebody with a mental illness and then implying that this mental illness leads somebody to fish for compliments is just sort of an iffy way to go about things. But I'm not all that torn up about it, by all means keep doing what you gotta do.  And sorry if my post doesn't work for you.

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2 hours ago, Ninefingers said:

I have never in my life seen someone fish for compliments harder. 

The guy must have crippling insecurity/anxiety. Goes a long way towards explaining the book three delay, IMO.

What is this, 4chan?

I agree the intro to TSRoST is almost pathologically self-aggrandizing in the way that it explains to the reader why the book is supposed to be good, but are we really attacking the author now for having anxiety? Really?

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26 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

What is this, 4chan?

I agree the intro to TSRoST is almost pathologically self-aggrandizing in the way that it explains to the reader why the book is supposed to be good, but are we really attacking the author now for having anxiety? Really?

Please point out the attack.

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13 hours ago, Kyll.Ing. said:

Your Majesty, there was some discussion earlier in this thread suggesting that Rothfuss had a practically completed manuscript distributed to beta readers as early as 2013. Problem was, it apparently wasn't very good. As in, bad beyond salvage and Rothfuss had no idea what to do with it. Still hasn't, by some accounts. The post two posts above what was linked suggests a manuscript that wasn't even touched between 2013 and 2016.

Even if this was 100% true, having a crappy manuscript does not equal having the book finished. Unless he doesn't mind getting the book he knows to be crappy out to his readers.

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