Lollygag Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, Traverys said: However, I do have to roll my eyes hardcore at how she goes from not being interested in the Iron Throne ("I want to go home...") to trying to convince Drogo to invade at the beginning of the next chapter. Suddenly the house with the red door doesn't have the same appeal it once did, but you could also blame that on the prophecy of the Stallion who Mounts the World. I thought that was strange too until her last chapter in Dance. She never really addressed Viserys' death emotionally, so adopting his cause was her way to resolve this emotionally and it didn't work well since it all came back at the end of Dance. After this scene in Dance, she carries Viserys' cause even further by resolving to plant no trees, be a conqueror and not a ruler, etc... She dreamt of her dead brother. Viserys looked just as he had the last time she'd seen him. His mouth was twisted in anguish, his hair was burnt, and his face was black and smoking where the molten gold had run down across his brow and cheeks and into his eyes. "You are dead," Dany said. Murdered. Though his lips never moved, somehow she could hear his voice, whispering in her ear. You never mourned me, sister. It is hard to die unmourned. "I loved you once." Once, he said, so bitterly it made her shudder. You were supposed to be my wife, to bear me children with silver hair and purple eyes, to keep the blood of the dragon pure. I took care of you. I taught you who you were. I fed you. I sold our mother's crown to keep you fed. "You hurt me. You frightened me." Only when you woke the dragon. I loved you. "You sold me. You betrayed me." No. You were the betrayer. You turned against me, against your own blood. They cheated me. Your horsey husband and his stinking savages. They were cheats and liars. They promised me a golden crown and gave me this. He touched the molten gold that was creeping down his face, and smoke rose from his finger. "You could have had your crown," Dany told him. "My sun-and-stars would have won it for you if only you had waited." I waited long enough. I waited my whole life. I was their king, their rightful king. They laughed at me. "You should have stayed in Pentos with Magister Illyrio. Khal Drogo had to present me to the dosh khaleen, but you did not have to ride with us. That was your choice. Your mistake." Do you want to wake the dragon, you stupid little whore? Drogo's khalasar was mine. I bought them from him, a hundred thousand screamers. I paid for them with your maidenhead. "You never understood. Dothraki do not buy and sell. They give gifts and receive them. If you had waited …" I did wait. For my crown, for my throne, for you. All those years, and all I ever got was a pot of molten gold. Why did they give the dragon's eggs to you? They should have been mine. If I'd had a dragon, I would have taught the world the meaning of our words. Viserys began to laugh, until his jaw fell away from his face, smoking, and blood and molten gold ran from his mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said: Indeed. Much like my brother died because he took the mashed potatoes and gravy, Viserys died because Dany wanted him subsumed. Your brother died? I'm sorry if that's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 How is it dany's fault he died? He threatened to cut out her unborn child (and drogo's). All she did was translate what he said. Drogo killed him and I doubt she could have done anything to stop it? She is not a kinslayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 minute ago, snow is the man said: All she did was translate what he said. She spoke the 'Killing Word,' my dear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traverys Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 30 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: My goodness -- the Dany enforcers have done you a number! You sound like a Dany apologist ... Dany rescued Mirri from rape; it was within her power to rescue her brother, or at least attempt to do so, but chose not to -- instead, referring to him before he'd died as 'the man who had been her brother.' Haha, I definitely do sound like an apologist. And you can trust it pains me. I have strong negative opinions about her, but they aren't likely to be heard unless I can demonstrate being fair to her. I'm more than happy to link you to some of my more belligerent replies from the past where I threw that philosophy to the wind. They of course only made people mad and my strong arguments were ignored in favor of knitpicking my snarky language about her. She rescued MMD from her husband's Khalasar. All of the Khals were present when Viserys went fatally belligerent. She could stop Drogo, but the drawing of steel would likely have led to someone else bloodlessly killing him, in theory at least. But imagine how it would make Drogo look to the other Dothraki if he didn't take matters into his own hands. They are savages, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Just now, Traverys said: She could stop Drogo, but the drawing of steel would likely have led to someone else bloodlessly killing him, in theory at least. They are savages, after all. It's significant that she didn't try. She wrote off her brother's life, while he was still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Dany is the Bloodstone Emperor; Viserys and/or Drogo are in the position of the Amethyst Empress. Good thing that LmL is not about; he is a big Dany fan and would not look kindly on the insolence of the devil's secretary muse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: She spoke the 'Killing Word,' my dear... So what was she supposed to do? That's like saying clydas killed jon by giving him that letter which led to bowen marsh killing him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, snow is the man said: So what was she supposed to do? That's like saying clydas killed jon by giving him that letter which led to bowen marsh killing him Ned said some lies were not dishonorable, if uttered in service of a noble purpose. Why didn't Dany lie about what Viserys had said, in order to save his life; the way that Arya saved Nymeria's life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 36 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Your brother died? I'm sorry if that's true. No he's alive and well last I checked. Grew a hideous mustache for some reason. Was nearly as good as my hideous mustache. Nearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traverys Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 33 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: It's significant that she didn't try. She wrote off her brother's life, while he was still alive. She wrote him off as soon as he put the sword to her belly: “this man who had once been her brother.” I think it's the beginning of a long pattern of behavior that ends up overlooked in favor of her dragons and freeing slaves. Let's not forget two chapters after this one she comes to terms with the fact she has to enslave and sell defenseless people to fund her invasion. This is her first instance of "the ends justify the means" that is pervasive throughout her arcs, disguised/hidden under "moments of awesome." In this first instance it's her trying to stop them from raping the women. Very nice of her, but she's certainly not suggesting they should stop enslaving them all to sell. She later has a change of heart about slavery when she wants an army of unsullied she can't afford. She has some emotional thoughts about how kings and queens should protect innocents to justify her plan with the masters. Of course, she doesn't ponder too long on what constitutes an innocent and orders the slaughter of anyone (barring children 12 and under) that's a soldier, has a whip, is a good master, or wearing a tokar (wives, adolescent boys and girls, etc.). This slaughter is hidden under the "crowning moment of awesome" of her revealing she speaks High Valyrian (which was Jorah's suggestion, not her own idea) and engaging the dracarys scene we all know. Afterwards she makes a big deal about freeing the unsullied... an army of eunuchs that have been systematically drugged and brainwashed to obey a master the bulk of their life. These are the kinds of things I take major issue with regarding her character. So, hopefully this shows my true colors in regards to the popular interpretation of her character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 18 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said: No he's alive and well last I checked. Grew a hideous mustache for some reason. Was nearly as good as my hideous mustache. Nearly. A hideous moustache is better than no moustache at all... 13 minutes ago, Traverys said: disguised under "moments of awesome." OK, let's stop there... Bran, my man, skinchange Drogon already, and let's be done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saer Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 2 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said: Dany raised the glass to her lips. The first sip tasted like ink and spoiled meat, foul, but when she swallowed it seemed to come to life within her. She could feel tendrils spreading through her chest, like fingers of fire coiling around her heart, and on her tongue was a taste like honey and anise and cream, like mother’s milk and Drogo’s seed, like red meat and hot blood and molten gold. It was all the tastes she had ever known, and none of them … and then the glass was empty. https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=anise&povs[]=Daenerys https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=cream&povs[]=Daenerys Quote Warm blood filled her mouth and ran down over her chin. The taste threatened to gag her, but she made herself chew and swallow. The heart of a stallion would make her son strong and swift and fearless, or so the Dothraki believed, but only if the mother could eat it all. How does she know what anise or cream or hot blood tastes like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted May 20, 2017 Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Saer said: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=anise&povs[]=Daenerys https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=cream&povs[]=Daenerys How does she know what anise or cream or hot blood tastes like? Anise is a Mediterranean spice. I assume Dany has tried it. Cream is cream... I know what cream tastes like, do you? It's delicious. I bet Dany has tried it at some point. And everyone knows what hot blood tastes like assuming you have ever cut yourself and sucked on the wound. It tastes like iron basically. But I have no idea what molten gold tastes like, because I would probably be dead if I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said: Cream is cream... I know what cream tastes like, do you? It's delicious. I bet Dany has tried it at some point. And everyone knows what hot blood tastes like assuming you have ever cut yourself and sucked on the wound. It tastes like iron basically. But I have no idea what molten gold tastes like, because I would probably be dead if I did. Wow. That is quite something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted May 20, 2017 Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 Just now, ravenous reader said: Wow. That is quite something. I really appreciate what you are doing to my thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Just now, 40 Thousand Skeletons said: I really appreciate what you are doing to my thread... LOL...There is something I love more than gold -- And that is iron- y ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 4 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said: However, Dany has never tasted molten gold. Or has she? Well, since it is included on the list, I guess she has tasted it before... I'm not sure I find it so odd that Danny would know what molten gold would taste like. I'm assuming that the taste would be the same as gold, only a warm liquid. Is it so far fetched to think that at some point in her life she had tasted gold in some form? Perhaps sucking on some gold jewelry; a lot of people have a tendency to suck on their necklaces and/or pendants. Or maybe some gold cutlery she may have used, or perhaps even from biting a gold coin. I know of at least one person know to do such. A Dance with Dragons - The Ugly Little Girl Quote Yet they brought him money: leather purses plump with gold and silver and the square iron coins of Braavos. The old man would count it out carefully, sorting the coins and stacking them up neatly, like with like. He never looked at the coins. Instead he bit them, always on the left side of his mouth, where he still had all his teeth. From time to time he'd spin one on the table and listen to the sound it made when it came clattering to a stop. I don't know Is it so unbelievable? To think she might associate the taste from biting a gold coin, or sucking on a gold chain, with that of molten gold, while drinking a beverage that "seemed to come to life within her" and made her "feel tendrils spreading through her chest, like fingers of fire coiling around her heart." 1 hour ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said: It tastes like iron basically. Just curious, how do you know what iron tastes like? I would think one would be as likely to know what gold tastes like, as they would iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted May 20, 2017 Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Darkstream said: I'm not sure I find it so odd that Danny would know what molten gold would taste like. I'm assuming that the taste would be the same as gold, only a warm liquid. Is it so far fetched to think that at some point in her life she had tasted gold in some form? Perhaps sucking on some gold jewelry; a lot of people have a tendency to suck on their necklaces and/or pendants. Or maybe some gold cutlery she may have used, or perhaps even from biting a gold coin. I know of at least one person know to do such. A Dance with Dragons - The Ugly Little Girl I don't know Is it so unbelievable? To think she might associate the taste from biting a gold coin, or sucking on a gold chain, with that of molten gold, while drinking a beverage that "seemed to come to life within her" and made her "feel tendrils spreading through her chest, like fingers of fire coiling around her heart." Just curious, how do you know what iron tastes like? I would think one would be as likely to know what gold tastes like, as they would iron. I agree she would know gold tastes like, but she specifically said molten gold, and she just so happens to have witnessed her own brother's death via molten gold just recently. Ironically I know what iron tastes like because I have tasted blood, and I paid attention in middle school and know that blood has iron in it and that's what makes it taste like coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weirwoodface Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 I will repeat what someone else said ... she drank a powerful hallucinogenic substance, so all bets are off here. To those of you who are not acquainted with the effects of substances such as LSD, mushrooms and the like: basically what these substances do is take a tractor to your subconscious, dredging up memories and emotions buried and not-so-buried. At the same time, your senses are disrupted, sometimes to a large degree. Dany actually tasted molten gold, but under the influence of shade of the evening, the profound impact of her brother's death came back to her, manifested in a psychedelic sensory experience of tasting what killed him. Was it a true taste, that is did she really taste how molten gold taste? That's impossible to answer and kind of beside the point anyway. The passage is meant to show us the things that had been buried deep in her mind, that the drink ripped up to the forefront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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