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Who controlls the North by the end of Winds?

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I think Stannis holds Winterfell for a great part of Winds of Winter. I believe that (unlike the series) he wins the battle of Ice and any other battles that follow and takes Winterfell. In the end, Rickon is brought back to Winterfell.Same for Jon. With the Starks back, Stannis loses support from the North.

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Whilst I believe it's pretty obviously going to be Jon, I would ask those who suggest Rickon what sort of narrative advancement that would accomplish as we head into the final book? I mean Rickon is a very minor character with no point of view. If Winterfell is important then why place Rickon at it's head, Bran more believeable in my opinion if by some miracle it's not Jon.

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On 6/17/2017 at 11:36 AM, Endymion I Targaryen said:

I think Stannis holds Winterfell for a great part of Winds of Winter. I believe that (unlike the series) he wins the battle of Ice and any other battles that follow and takes Winterfell. In the end, Rickon is brought back to Winterfell.Same for Jon. With the Starks back, Stannis loses support from the North.

So Stannis just fades from the story? I don't buy it, if the show proved anything it's that the pink letter is true.

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15 hours ago, JonSnowed said:

So Stannis just fades from the story? I don't buy it, if the show proved anything it's that the pink letter is true.

I believe in the Great Northen Conspiracy. Northmen use Stannis as a way to remove the Boltons and restore the Starks. When these two goals are achieved, they will kill him or abandon him.

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I find it pretty interesting, that it is accepted as a fact among the fan comunity, that the pink letter is a lie. That Stannis is alive at the point when the letter is written. I am not saying, that it is neccesary true, only that I am fascinated by the fact, that it is considered as a fact. What if it is true? It can definitely be true, since book 4 and 5 are written non-linear. We have no idea how nuch time has passed between the fight for winterfell and the arriving of the pink letter. 

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On 6/27/2017 at 2:18 PM, JonSnowed said:

Whilst I believe it's pretty obviously going to be Jon, I would ask those who suggest Rickon what sort of narrative advancement that would accomplish as we head into the final book? I mean Rickon is a very minor character with no point of view. If Winterfell is important then why place Rickon at it's head, Bran more believeable in my opinion if by some miracle it's not Jon.

No, it's not. Bran is a Cripple and no Northmen can respect a cripple no matter how powerful or wise they might be. It simply goes against how living in the North works. A bastard would never be made Lord of Winterfell when they have a Legitimate child right in front of them regardless legitimised or not. No person in the North would put a sister above a brother regardless older or not. So who is left? Rickon Stark!a non-crippled non-bastard male Legitimate Stark with a fierce streak and a very large direwolf and by all accounts a very strong warg/skinchanger and possibly a greenseer. What makes you think they wouldn't put Rickon as Lord of Winterfell? 

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On 6/28/2017 at 0:18 AM, JonSnowed said:

Whilst I believe it's pretty obviously going to be Jon, I would ask those who suggest Rickon what sort of narrative advancement that would accomplish as we head into the final book? I mean Rickon is a very minor character with no point of view. If Winterfell is important then why place Rickon at it's head, Bran more believeable in my opinion if by some miracle it's not Jon.

I don't think people mean that Rickon will control the North by the end of Winds, but rather by the end of the series. It would be a cool twist if the one Stark who didn't do anything because he was too young will be the one to ultimately become lord of Winterfell. This doesn't have to affect the narrative in any way, since Jon doesn't need to be king or lord to effectively command the North for the rest of the series, he can just as easily do that as Rickon's regent.

 

On 6/30/2017 at 7:29 PM, Dragonsbone said:

I find it pretty interesting, that it is accepted as a fact among the fan comunity, that the pink letter is a lie. That Stannis is alive at the point when the letter is written. I am not saying, that it is neccesary true, only that I am fascinated by the fact, that it is considered as a fact. What if it is true? It can definitely be true, since book 4 and 5 are written non-linear. We have no idea how nuch time has passed between the fight for winterfell and the arriving of the pink letter. 

The pink letter being true would be a very anticlimactic end for Stannis's, and certainly not one worthy of a cliffhanger. To satisfy all the foreshadowing and the themes used in his story, he has to succeed as a military commander and fail as Azor Ahai. Losing to the Boltons would accomplish neither. Also, if you read Dance carefully, there are some pretty clear hints to how Stannis will win the "Battle of Ice". The History of Westeros podcast has a very cool analysis of this, although it's a rather long three-parter and will likely spoil this part of the story for you.

 

On topic, I think by the end of Winds the North and most of the Riverlands will be overrun with wights, with the survivors trying to flee across the Narrow Sea to Essos (as mentioned in a different thread).

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I think we can follow the show's lead on this one. Rickon and Shaggydog are going to unceremoniously die, Bran is unsuited for rulership, Jon may well take over as King, but Winterfell and the North will go to Sansa.

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14 minutes ago, Six Crows said:

I think it will be Jon. If Rickon ends up ruling Winterfell, what was the point of Robb naming Jon as his heir just before dying? 

No one seems to have found Robb's Will where he names Jon as his heir. Until that resurfaces, Jon isn't in the running.

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4 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

No one seems to have found Robb's Will where he names Jon as his heir. Until that resurfaces, Jon isn't in the running.

Well then I believe it will resurface. GRRM wouldn't have bothered making Jon Robb's heir before killing him off if it wasn't going to be important.

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On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 7:16 PM, Dorian Martell's son said:

The Others 

The Others are barely mentioned at all in the books outside of a motivating force for the wildlings, so it is pretty unlikely that they will control anything outside of being a vague threat from beyond the wall. In order to have them control the north Martin would have to spend a significant amount of character development for them in WoW, because it has NOT been done so far. Otherwise it would create a significant dislocation in the story.

Most of the book is going to revolve around the power struggle south of the wall.

It will be interesting to see how Martin deals with the whitewalkers in the end, because they have played remarkably little role in the story so far. It is hard to see how he could suddenly spring them out as major players at the end from a story perspective, unless he has a whole lot of extra books planned that we don't know about.

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On 8/18/2017 at 2:35 PM, Six Crows said:

Well then I believe it will resurface. GRRM wouldn't have bothered making Jon Robb's heir before killing him off if it wasn't going to be important.

Hopefully Howland Reed shows up with the will.

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20 hours ago, tugela said:

The Others are barely mentioned at all in the books outside of a motivating force for the wildlings, so it is pretty unlikely that they will control anything outside of being a vague threat from beyond the wall. In order to have them control the north Martin would have to spend a significant amount of character development for them in WoW, because it has NOT been done so far. Otherwise it would create a significant dislocation in the story.

Most of the book is going to revolve around the power struggle south of the wall.

It will be interesting to see how Martin deals with the whitewalkers in the end, because they have played remarkably little role in the story so far. It is hard to see how he could suddenly spring them out as major players at the end from a story perspective, unless he has a whole lot of extra books planned that we don't know about.

The books are long. Lots can happen

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