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Who controlls the North by the end of Winds?

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On 8/24/2017 at 10:20 AM, Dorian Martell's son said:

The books are long. Lots can happen

Only if the next book has the pace of Storm. Looking back on the books the amount of things that happen in Storm is incredible.

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On 6/30/2017 at 10:29 AM, Dragonsbone said:

I find it pretty interesting, that it is accepted as a fact among the fan comunity, that the pink letter is a lie. That Stannis is alive at the point when the letter is written. I am not saying, that it is neccesary true, only that I am fascinated by the fact, that it is considered as a fact. What if it is true? It can definitely be true, since book 4 and 5 are written non-linear. We have no idea how nuch time has passed between the fight for winterfell and the arriving of the pink letter. 

I think a lot of it's wishful thinking Stannis' death along with Jon's death is the perfect low point for the Northern arc before the turnaround and things start going in the right direction. The twist with the pink letter is very GRRM.

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14 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

There are two books left 

There will be 4 if he can't pick up the pace. I know there are two left (I think 3 personally), I mean, he would need two even at the pace of Storm, but I feel three would be better. I do not want a 10 page epilogue like we had with the Wheel of Time, which I will never read again given how much I hated the last book.

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2 hours ago, Whitering said:

There will be 4 if he can't pick up the pace. I know there are two left (I think 3 personally), I mean, he would need two even at the pace of Storm, but I feel three would be better. I do not want a 10 page epilogue like we had with the Wheel of Time, which I will never read again given how much I hated the last book.

Yes, but wheel of time was not written by GRRM

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16 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Yes, but wheel of time was not written by GRRM

I know, but the main reason I hated it was the epilogue, which was not a sufficient conclusion to the story I'd been following for 20+ years, and I fear it will be the same here if he wraps it up in two books. I don't think even two Storms will do it.

Yes, people don't like it, but Dany, all those years ago, saw her facing a host of ice likely at the Trident. That kind of has to be the end of the second last book or the beginning of the last book.

Maybe that's where the bittersweet comes from, the places totally destroyed by the Others are the places that suffered the most throughout the books already.

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1 hour ago, Whitering said:

I know, but the main reason I hated it was the epilogue, which was not a sufficient conclusion to the story I'd been following for 20+ years, and I fear it will be the same here if he wraps it up in two books. I don't think even two Storms will do it.

I am starting to think he won't ever finish winds so there is that 

1 hour ago, Whitering said:

Yes, people don't like it, but Dany, all those years ago, saw her facing a host of ice likely at the Trident. That kind of has to be the end of the second last book or the beginning of the last book.

I kinda figured this will happen in dream, with the north falling in winds 

1 hour ago, Whitering said:

Maybe that's where the bittersweet comes from, the places totally destroyed by the Others are the places that suffered the most throughout the books already.

I figured the bittersweet is Arya dying with needle in her hands,  Dany dying in the final battle and Bran, never leaving the tree, watching everyone he loved grow old, raise children and die while waiting for the next last greenseer to be born and find him 

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I think Jon will come back, but no as a wight and he' ll have many problens in Wall to go to Winterfell. He will nedd gather the wtchs and free folk.

Sansa wwon't to have power to go to Winterfell, yet. She nerds to conquer Harry, the heir, to figure out how LF works and to get ver own allies without his help. 

Arya will take all the book to come um Westeros. Bomnever will leave that tree.  

No, I think Stannis have all the North, but he needs a Stark in Winterfell, but the only one avaliable is a freaked boy.  Who haves the vou, habeas Winterfell and will be closer the king or will have a gratefull Stark in the future. So, the biggest drama will be many bannermens fighting by Rickon's atention. 

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At the end of   ADwD EDIT - TWoW - END EDIT, the ruler of the North will be the King of Winter, Brandon the Greenseer of House Stark.

His Hand will be Howland Reed.

His Sworn Spear will be Meera Reed.

By that time, Tyrion will "be perched on" the seat of Jon's father. (Foreshadowing by Stannis.) Thus, Tyrion will rule Dragonstone (the seat of Jon's father, Rhaegar) and Stannis will be dead and unrisen. (Foreshadowing by both Stannis and Tywin.)

ASOS 72 - Jaime IX
"Well and good," announced Pycelle. "Let Stannis rot in Lys, I say. We are well rid of the man and his ambitions."

"Did you turn into an utter fool when Tyrion shaved your beard? This is Stannis Baratheon. The man will fight to the bitter end and then some.
- conversation between GM Pycelle and Tywin Lannister

ADwD 03 - Jon I
"By right Winterfell should go to my sister Sansa."

"Lady Lannister, you mean? Are you so eager to see the Imp perched on your father's seat? I promise you, that will not happen whilst I live, Lord Snow."
- conversation between LC Jon Snow and Stannis Baratheon

The Wall will likely fall in the epilogue of TWoW.

Edited by Ibbison from Ibben

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On 9/22/2017 at 10:54 AM, Dorian Martell's son said:

I am starting to think he won't ever finish winds so there is that 

I kinda figured this will happen in dream, with the north falling in winds 

I figured the bittersweet is Arya dying with needle in her hands,  Dany dying in the final battle and Bran, never leaving the tree, watching everyone he loved grow old, raise children and die while waiting for the next last greenseer to be born and find him 

Well, the Dragons kind of have to die right? So maybe this is the end of the Children and Greenseeing and Bran is the last Greenseer until the world cycles again.

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On 9/25/2017 at 1:00 PM, Ibbison from Ibben said:

At the end of ADwD, the ruler of the North will be the King of Winter, Brandon the Greenseer of House Stark.

His Hand will be Howland Reed.

His Sworn Spear will be Meera Reed.

By that time, Tyrion will "be perched on" the seat of Jon's father. (Foreshadowing by Stannis.) Thus, Tyrion will rule Dragonstone (the seat of Jon's father, Rhaegar) and Stannis will be dead and unrisen. (Foreshadowing by both Stannis and Tywin.)

ASOS 72 - Jaime IX
"Well and good," announced Pycelle. "Let Stannis rot in Lys, I say. We are well rid of the man and his ambitions."

"Did you turn into an utter fool when Tyrion shaved your beard? This is Stannis Baratheon. The man will fight to the bitter end and then some.
- conversation between GM Pycelle and Tywin Lannister

ADwD 03 - Jon I
"By right Winterfell should go to my sister Sansa."

"Lady Lannister, you mean? Are you so eager to see the Imp perched on your father's seat? I promise you, that will not happen whilst I live, Lord Snow."
- conversation between LC Jon Snow and Stannis Baratheon

The Wall will likely fall in the epilogue of TWoW.

But Martin said that Stannis still is alive in TWOW. And it seemed that he will be alive during all the book.

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7 hours ago, Garota Sem Rosto said:

But Martin said that Stannis still is alive in TWOW. And it seemed that he will be alive during all the book.

Oops. I meant that the situation I described will take place by the end of TWoW. I will edit accordingly.

Stannis is indeed alive at the beginning of TWoW, but his connection with Nightfort and the legend of the Nights King seems pretty strong. His health is deteriorating rapidly. I don't see any evidence to indicate he will be alive at the end of TWoW.

That doesn't mean he won't be around, of course.

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On 9/27/2017 at 3:22 AM, Ibbison from Ibben said:

Oops. I meant that the situation I described will take place by the end of TWoW. I will edit accordingly.

Stannis is indeed alive at the beginning of TWoW, but his connection with Nightfort and the legend of the Nights King seems pretty strong. His health is deteriorating rapidly. I don't see any evidence to indicate he will be alive at the end of TWoW.

That doesn't mean he won't be around, of course.

But would that make Mel the Ice Lady analogue from the tale? Then instead of an Ice oriented Night King sacrificing to the Others, this time we get a Night King sacrificing people by fire to the...umm, other side.

Because I don't see Stannis shacking up with an Ice Lady.

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I'm not buying into the grand northern conspiracy much, but lords will prefer proven Jon instead of the "boy lord" Rickon. Manderly himself says this to Davos

Quote

"Roose Bolton has Lord Eddard's daughter. To thwart him White Harbor must have Ned's son … and the direwolf. The wolf will prove the boy is who we say he is, should the Dreadfort attempt to deny him. That is my price, Lord Davos. Smuggle me back my liege lord, and I will take Stannis Baratheon as my king."

He describes Rickon as his his liege lord, not king. And he says he will take Stannis as his king. But after his death, what happens?

 

Quote
"Forty wayns full of foodstuffs. Casks of wine and hippocras, barrels of fresh-caught lampreys, a herd of goats, a hundred pigs, crates of crabs and oysters, a monstrous codfish … Lord Wyman likes to eat. You may have noticed."
"What I noticed was that he brought no hostages."
"I noticed that as well."

He brings no hostages

Quote

Four White Harbor knights had formed a ring around Lord Wyman, as Maester Medrick labored over him to staunch his bleeding. "First you must needs come through us, ser," said the eldest of them, a hard-faced greybeard whose bloodstained surcoat showed three silvery mermaids upon a violet field.

He brings old knights.

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On 9/29/2017 at 1:04 PM, Whitering said:

But would that make Mel the Ice Lady analogue from the tale? Then instead of an Ice oriented Night King sacrificing to the Others, this time we get a Night King sacrificing people by fire to the...umm, other side.

Because I don't see Stannis shacking up with an Ice Lady.

My apologies for the delay in replying.

Val is the Ice Lady. Think back to ADwD. Jon, who is the scion of Ice and Fire and thus represents the balance between the two, is tempted by Fire (Mel) and Ice (Val). He rejects both, as he must to maintain his neutrality between the two forces.

Stannis will win his battle at the lake. He will then implement his plan to feign his own death to gain entrance to Winterfell. It will be completely unnecessary, however, since the northern lords will already have overthrown Roose, with the help of the force entering through the crypts led by Howland Reed, Galbert Glover, and Maege Mormont. Unfortunately, the "news" of Stannis's death will reach the Wall, where Mel, with Selyse's cooperation, will sacrifice Shireen to bring Stannis back to life.

Stannis will not be amused. He will cross his moral event horizon, kill Mel and Selyse, wed Val, and assume his foreshadowed role as the Night's King.

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On 12/6/2017 at 3:37 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

He describes Rickon as his his liege lord, not king. And he says he will take Stannis as his king. But after his death, what happens?

 

Manderly does not describe Rickon as his liege lord. Bran is Manderly's liege lord. Wyman Manderly is a master of Exact Words, and he is using them to deceive Davos. When Davos returns Rickon to White Harbor, Wyman will say, "Oops! Bran is still alive, and he is my proper liege lord. Therefore, I don't have to take Stannis as my king. Thanks for bringing Rickon back. Here, have a cookie."

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