Sense8: why...so...sensitive (spoilers)

[DaveSumm]

How come the letter says two hour special and then you never know, but everyone's calling it a finale? I mean, it probably is.....still a bit weird.

[Werthead]

13 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

How come the letter says two hour special and then you never know, but everyone's calling it a finale? I mean, it probably is.....still a bit weird.

It'll be treated as the finale, it'll wrap up the story started back in 2015.

However, if bajillions of people watch it when it comes out, if loads more people watch Seasons 1 & 2 between now and then, then Netflix might consider doing something else (they'd be idiots not to). A continuation or possibly a spin-off of some kind, since it's a concept you could do quite a lot with.

[SpaceChampion]

15 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

JMS must feel confused now, for being so pessimistic and giving away so many plot points...

I'm glad I didn't read anything he said (part of me still believed...).

That's weird, I haven't seen anything from him regarding plot points.

25 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Netflix says fuck it and renews Sense 8.

For a two-hour finale. But still

Yay! Time for an orgy in celebration!!

Let's do this too:

 

[Werthead]

Quote

That's weird, I haven't seen anything from him regarding plot points.

I'm assuming that's a reference to:

Spoiler

 

JMS confirming they were going to kill one of the cluster off. However, I got the impression that was a plan for Season 2 and they dropped it because they couldn't work out who they wanted to lose, as they wanted to continuing telling the stories for all of them.

I would be very surprised if they killed any of the eight off in the finale.

 

 

[Consigliere]

Really glad to hear that we will get some sort of resolution. Enjoyed season 2 and thought that it exceeded season 1 on every level. I was really bummed when I learned that the show was cancelled, especially given how the season ended. If they manage to stick the landing in the 2-hour finale then this show will definitely go on my rewatch list.

[Mladen]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Netflix says fuck it and renews Sense 8.

For a two-hour finale. But still

I LOVE YOU <3

AMAZING...

[The Anti-Targ]

Glad that they decided to give us some closure. But I think they could have handled this a bit better. They can't have just decided to do a 2-hour finale between when they announced the cancellation and now. They should have announced a wrap up movie-length end at the same time as announcing the axing of the show. But maybe before committing the $$ they wanted to wait and see the fan reaction to the cancellation announcement.

[Werthead]

27 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Glad that they decided to give us some closure. But I think they could have handled this a bit better. They can't have just decided to do a 2-hour finale between when they announced the cancellation and now. They should have announced a wrap up movie-length end at the same time as announcing the axing of the show. But maybe before committing the $$ they wanted to wait and see the fan reaction to the cancellation announcement.

I suspect the many thousands of extra views they picked up in the meantime probably helped as well.

[red snow]

Great news! I for one just wanted some resolution and as Wert mentioned, all (or almost all) the characters are in one location so should be cheaper to make.

Need to start getting eveyone I know to watch this once the special is nearing a launch. Don't end the special on a cliffhanger though!

3 hours ago, Werthead said:

It'll be treated as the finale, it'll wrap up the story started back in 2015.

However, if bajillions of people watch it when it comes out, if loads more people watch Seasons 1 & 2 between now and then, then Netflix might consider doing something else (they'd be idiots not to). A continuation or possibly a spin-off of some kind, since it's a concept you could do quite a lot with.

Never say never

I agree that the show has a lot of spin-off potential.

[red snow]

Also have to say the letter from Lana Wachowski came across as genuinely heartfelt. It seems her silence has been grief over the cancellation. Maybe she was a bit deflated at the show not catching on but seeing the support and anger over the cancellation. She probably realises the show means a lot to those who do watch it and maybe this helped the production team come up with a cost effective way of resolving the season/show.

I like to think that the "season 3" request on the netflix account helped. Maybe even morseo than the petition because asking via a netflix account neans you're a genuine viewer/subscriber and not just someone who likes signing petitions. A tip of the hat to those who went the extra mile and cancelled their subscription after requesting season 3.

 

[HexMachina]

9 minutes ago, red snow said:

Also have to say the letter from Lana Wachowski came across as genuinely heartfelt. It seems her silence has been grief over the cancellation. Maybe she was a bit deflated at the show not catching on but seeing the support and anger over the cancellation. She probably realises the show means a lot to those who do watch it and maybe this helped the production team come up with a cost effective way of resolving the season/show.

I like to think that the "season 3" request on the netflix account helped. Maybe even morseo than the petition because asking via a netflix account neans you're a genuine viewer/subscriber and not just someone who likes signing petitions. A tip of the hat to those who went the extra mile and cancelled their subscription after requesting season 3.

 

I'm glad you mentioned Lana's letter. I heard about the renewal from a friend before I saw the actual confirmation online. I thought her letter was beautiful and very moving. It's beautiful how much the show and fans mean to her, though of course very sad that she went through such a hard time after the cancellation

[Dr. Pepper]

I have had the most horrendous month and this news was so wanted and appreciated that I started crying.  I can't wait.  I'm so happy.

[karaddin]

3 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I have had the most horrendous month and this news was so wanted and appreciated that I started crying.  I can't wait.  I'm so happy.

Glad there was some bright news at the end of it.

7 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

That's weird, I haven't seen anything from him regarding plot points.

Yay! Time for an orgy in celebration!!

Pretty much my response too - there needs to be their best orgy of the series in this final special.

Guess now is the perfect time to renew my subscription - Cancel sense8 = lost subscriptions, more sense8 = renewals is a good association to work on.

[red snow]

11 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I have had the most horrendous month and this news was so wanted and appreciated that I started crying.  I can't wait.  I'm so happy.

I've had a diluted version of your experience. After a shitty day looking at shitty flats for a city I don't particularly want to move to it was nice to have some/any good news at the end of the day.

8 hours ago, karaddin said:

Guess now is the perfect time to renew my subscription - Cancel sense8 = lost subscriptions, more sense8 = renewals is a good association to work on.

I think this is something Netflix would notice. Maybe not enough to justfify bringing a season back but clearly enough to provide closure keep that fanbase happy. I'm starting to beleive Netflx when they say they like the show but the cost/numbers don't add up. I think they are taking a chance here. That and I suspect the Wachowskis/JMS and Netflix have been working behind closed doors coming up with a cost effective compromise. the 2 hour special will probably cost less than 2 episodes but I hope the team have done it with a story that doesn't compromise quality.

Like I've said, they really need to make this special in a way that the story feels closed. Leave possibilities for further stories out there (no story should ever come to a full stop). That way it's a lot easier to convince others to try the show out. Too many people don't bother starting shows they know have no ending or a cliffhanger (although I'm pleased I watched "Deadwood" knowing this and I'd feel sorry for no-one who watched "Angel" for the same reason). If this is a genuine finale I think I can convince friends to give the show a go. If everyone currently watching the show can do that who knows what might happen.

12 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I'm glad you mentioned Lana's letter. I heard about the renewal from a friend before I saw the actual confirmation online. I thought her letter was beautiful and very moving. It's beautiful how much the show and fans mean to her, though of course very sad that she went through such a hard time after the cancellation

I think it must be pretty hard to create a show with such a positive message of inclusion and acceptance and then discover it's being rejected. I can see how a creator would view that as a mixture of "I've done a bad job" or "most people reject this outlook". Not a good place to be. I really do think the letters of support etc has helped her realise that while the show maybe isn't a success in numbers it has reached out and touched a lot of people. That must be a nice feeling to have and probably helped them find a way to make a finale that works.

[SpaceChampion]

If this two-hour special is the final Sense8 I wouldn't want them to kill anybody off.  I suppose if the audience grew with time in the future as more people discover it they might consider bringing it back, but they'd probably have to recast a few characters if the actors aren't available.

Maybe they'll consider a sequel series that is half the cost.  A smaller cluster, focused on a just a few locations.  Guest starring occasionally by our familiar cluster to give the highlights of the original arc JMS sketched out, whatever it was.

[karaddin]

Yeah, this show is not the right show to end on a dark or even bittersweet note. No deaths, and they need to be in a good place. Some of them are easy to get there - Lito's movie is a big hit, they move to Cali permanently and have an amazing house for their little family for example.

[Dr. Pepper]

23 hours ago, karaddin said:

Glad there was some bright news at the end of it.

 

Thanks!

This show is such a beacon of light that I decided I really need to end one of the worst months of my life with a bit of Sense8 and I'm just picking episodes at random.  It really makes everything better.  

[red snow]

10 hours ago, karaddin said:

Yeah, this show is not the right show to end on a dark or even bittersweet note. No deaths, and they need to be in a good place. Some of them are easy to get there - Lito's movie is a big hit, they move to Cali permanently and have an amazing house for their little family for example.

I'm pretty sure the gist of JMS' comments about killing a member of the cluster off was directed at ideas they had for season 2. It seemed the conclusion was that they couldn't bring themselves to kill any of them off so they abandoned the idea. I don't think it was necessarily a plan for the future.

I'm not sure a sensate death would be that downbeat - if they had a season to explore it. Initially devastating but I've a feeling the individual could easily live on as a sensate "ghost" so could actually be a positive thing in a way. They have sort of hinted at it with Daryl Hannah's character, I imagine a cluster member has an even better chance of living on in some way.

But they can't fully explore the idea in a 2 hour movie so better not to.

[karaddin]

Yeah exactly. I only mean when all they've got is two hours. There isn't time and space to move on from the pain to get back to triumph and life, so you just don't explore that part of the story.

I think one of the problems they had with killing someone off was that anyone other than Riley, Will or Wolfgang would have been harmful - just another show that kills off its people of colour while keeping the white characters alive, it's queer characters while keeping the straight characters alive, etc. And because Will and Riley were two of the more common characters they'd been written into the centre of the plot to keep them interesting (ignoring that I could spend a lot of time watching Tuppence stare out from the park bench listening to music, she's gives off just the right queer vibes I've been a sucker for all my life), that meant it was Wolfie or no one. And Wolfie was one of the big sources of awesome action set pieces, so they'd written themselves into a corner, but perhaps were going to kill him off.

[red snow]

6 hours ago, karaddin said:

Yeah exactly. I only mean when all they've got is two hours. There isn't time and space to move on from the pain to get back to triumph and life, so you just don't explore that part of the story.

I think one of the problems they had with killing someone off was that anyone other than Riley, Will or Wolfgang would have been harmful - just another show that kills off its people of colour while keeping the white characters alive, it's queer characters while keeping the straight characters alive, etc. And because Will and Riley were two of the more common characters they'd been written into the centre of the plot to keep them interesting (ignoring that I could spend a lot of time watching Tuppence stare out from the park bench listening to music, she's gives off just the right queer vibes I've been a sucker for all my life), that meant it was Wolfie or no one. And Wolfie was one of the big sources of awesome action set pieces, so they'd written themselves into a corner, but perhaps were going to kill him off.

I think you're right that Riley, Will or Wolfgang would probably be the prime candidates. Riley or Will in terms of the fact they had the same shared story from season 2. But you could also argue in terms of power sets that Will and Wolfgang were redundant (both good with guns and fighting). I'd probably have gone for Will or Riley (possibly Will if I really had to choose from a cold storytelling point of view. The thing about Wolfgang is he's the dark aspect of the cluster so unless Will or Sun went off the deep end they'd lose an interesting dynamic in the team. Plus Will would mean Riley has to suffer the loss on the level of a lover and a clustermate.

Or if I was trying to save on the show's budget I'd kill of Kala. Her story has yet to prove essential (or as engaging for me) as the others and it could serve as a catalyst for Wolfgang going down a darker path. Although that's always dodgy "fridging" territory (although it's odd I didn't think that about killing Riley until now but I guess it's because it's handled badly more often with female character deaths and their affect on male leads) but I think as long as it was framed in a way that it wasn't done just for Wolfgang's character it could work.

But even just thinking about it myself with characters I didn't create (and actors I don't work with - especially given how much effort Brian J Smith has put into saving the show) I can totally understand why they shelved the idea.

Although I imagine the thought must have crossed their mind when they had to recast Capheus