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Aemon Targaryen

R + L = J .... but so what?

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I feel like Jon and Dany is an inevitable marriage.  It makes perfect sense really.  They are both at a point when the unlikeliest of partners enter their lives (Drogo and Ygritte), they fall in love, only to have those partners die.  They're both from prestigious families, yet grew up as lower class citizens, only to rise to power.  Their arcs are parallel. To me, the only question is do they find out his parentage before, or after their romance starts up.  Like many have pointed out, Aunt/nephew amongst Targs would be completely acceptable.  I mean, it's not just Targs.  As pointed out you have Jaime and Cersei (bro/sis) and even Tywin and Joanna (first cousins). In the world of GRRM, nothing is off the table, right?  Do they live "happily ever after"?  Who knows.  But I think they get together for sure.  We shall see...

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2 hours ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

I feel like Jon and Dany is an inevitable marriage.  It makes perfect sense really.  They are both at a point when the unlikeliest of partners enter their lives (Drogo and Ygritte), they fall in love, only to have those partners die.  They're both from prestigious families, yet grew up as lower class citizens, only to rise to power.  Their arcs are parallel. To me, the only question is do they find out his parentage before, or after their romance starts up.  Like many have pointed out, Aunt/nephew amongst Targs would be completely acceptable.  I mean, it's not just Targs.  As pointed out you have Jaime and Cersei (bro/sis) and even Tywin and Joanna (first cousins). In the world of GRRM, nothing is off the table, right?  Do they live "happily ever after"?  Who knows.  But I think the get together for sure.  We shall see...

Yes I do agree with you but Cersei and Jaime are sort of baddies.

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19 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

What is even around here? No, I know it's not very common, certainly not as common as being a fan of Jon or Cersei, huh? :lol: 

it's pretty obvious that Daenerys won't join Drogo in the afterlife that doesn't exist in asoiaf. It was just a random thought I explored. 

Whatever suits them, just finish the damn story already. 

People dislike this because of Stockholm syndrome situation and rape that has been portrayed on the show. Even if in the books it's not like that.

I think it's valuable discussion about afterlife, because while Dany and Drogo believed they might be together again, Jon and Beric saw darkness.

Hopefully it will be a coherent and well written books and show. This epic saga desrves a god ending worthy of it.

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1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

People dislike this because of Stockholm syndrome situation and rape that has been portrayed on the show. Even if in the books it's not like that.

I think it's valuable discussion about afterlife, because while Dany and Drogo believed they might be together again, Jon and Beric saw darkness.

Hopefully it will be a coherent and well written books and show. This epic saga desrves a god ending worthy of it.

I know why people dislike it, I've had that conversation ten thousand times. 

That's pretty self explanatory. The living always hope there's something beyond because it makes dying less terrifying. But those who die and come back confrim there isn't, underlining grrm's point that believing in the afterlife or anything religious is stupid. 

Yeah, I deserve an oven too. But have I moved house yet? No. Fingers crossed for the show. 

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3 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

I know why people dislike it, I've had that conversation ten thousand times. 

You sound like me with Jon and Dany defending them.

Quote

That's pretty self explanatory. The living always hope there's something beyond because it makes dying less terrifying. But those who die and come back confrim there isn't, underlining grrm's point that believing in the afterlife or anything religious is stupid. 

We all need to believe in something much like our characters.

Quote

Yeah, I deserve an oven too. But have I moved house yet? No. Fingers crossed for the show. 

We both might be lucky enough and our grandkids might read us the next remaining books. if we're lucky.

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19 hours ago, Wolfgirly said:

Yes I do agree with you but Cersei and Jaime are sort of baddies.

That they are.  I will say, the idea of incestual relations, as taboo as it is, has to be frowned upon when it's regarding twins.  I would think even the Targs would find it weird to marry a womb-mate, right? lol

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4 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

You sound like me with Jon and Dany defending them.

We all need to believe in something much like our characters.

We both might be lucky enough and our grandkids might read us the next remaining books. if we're lucky.

Does that need defending? At least it's more popular than Daenerys and Drogo and people don't get to play the amateur psychologist. 

Of course we do. 

Heh. I don't believe in that. But maybe. 

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8 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

Does that need defending? At least it's more popular than Daenerys and Drogo and people don't get to play the amateur psychologist. 

Of course we do. 

Heh. I don't believe in that. But maybe. 

You'd be suprised on youtube and other places it's fairly popular but also attracts a lot of hate. Same goes for Jon and Dany. Too cliche, disney, fairytale, boring etc.

You have to. If I can learn how to bake, anything is possible. No pun intended.

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On 6/5/2017 at 2:45 PM, maudisdottir said:

Not according to the World Book:

Birds flew and couriers raced to bear word of the victory at the Ruby Ford. When the news reached the Red Keep, it was said that Aerys cursed the Dornish, certain that Lewyn had betrayed Rhaegar. He sent his pregnant queen, Rhaella, and his younger son and new heir, Viserys, away to Dragonstone, but Princess Elia was forced to remain in King's Landing with Rhaegar's children

Aegon was still alive when Aerys named Viserys his heir.

Thanks for that.

So. Viserys is named Aerys' heir after the death of Rhaegar, before the death of Aegon. And before the birth of Jon?

Hmmm.

So Dany and Jon are the heirs left, other than (f)Aegon.

Do dragons trump protocol?

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4 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

You'd be suprised on youtube and other places it's fairly popular but also attracts a lot of hate. Same goes for Jon and Dany. Too cliche, disney, fairytale, boring etc.

You have to. If I can learn how to bake, anything is possible. No pun intended.

Well, I do agree it's too cliche but sometimes a cliche can be the good thing. Still, I just don't feel the Jon and Daenerys romance. 

I'll tell this to myself every time I don't move house. If you can learn how to bake, I'll eventually find a flat. and maybe we'll see winds of winter too one day. Just not dream of spring. 

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On 5. 6. 2017 at 8:12 AM, Prof. Cecily said:

I thought this, too. But it's just not actually the case.

Here's the wiki source http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Viserys_Targaryen

This really surprised me!

That would be interesting.

Would World trump Wiki or vice versa?

Wiki is clear on the subject:

Here's the wiki http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Viserys_Targaryen

Wiki is based on what we know inluding TWOIAF.

The thing is Aerys II thought Dorne might want to rebel against him and so by that he choose Viserys over baby Aegon or Rhaenys. Basically, this situation cannot be applied to Jon because he was born via House Stark and nobody knew about it. In this world misogyny rules, but as we know he won't pursue the Iron Throne, and nor he'll fight for it. If he ever sits on it, it's because people choose him or someone else pushed him into it.

14 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

Well, I do agree it's too cliche but sometimes a cliche can be the good thing. Still, I just don't feel the Jon and Daenerys romance. 

I'll tell this to myself every time I don't move house. If you can learn how to bake, I'll eventually find a flat. and maybe we'll see winds of winter too one day. Just not dream of spring. 

If incest is too cliche, then we're living in a very strange world. We're not gonna agree on that of to find a common ground.

Maybe, but A Dream of Spring will just be that a dream for many of us. We'll be lucky to have at least The Winds of Winter.

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6 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

 

If incest is too cliche, then we're living in a very strange world. We're not gonna agree on that of to find a common ground.

Maybe, but A Dream of Spring will just be that a dream for many of us. We'll be lucky to have at least The Winds of Winter.

Oh we are living in a very strange world, no question. But it's not clieche because they are aunt and nephew, it's cliche because the two main protagonsits to get together at the end of the story. 

Well having winds but not dream gets you to the exact same place doesn't it? You still don't know how the story ends, you're just a couple feet closer. 

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23 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

Oh we are living in a very strange world, no question. But it's not clieche because they are aunt and nephew, it's cliche because the two main protagonsits to get together at the end of the story. 

Well having winds but not dream gets you to the exact same place doesn't it? You still don't know how the story ends, you're just a couple feet closer. 

It would be cliche if there was no reason for it, out of nowhere. With a ton of parallels, foreshadowings and hints. We have Brienne and Jaime, Bran and Meera, Sansa might end up with Sandor or Tyrion pretty big characters.

At least it's something. Bette to haveone book than neither of them, but show will give us the ending long before the books will ever do or should I say if.

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2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

It would be cliche if there was no reason for it, out of nowhere. With a ton of parallels, foreshadowings and hints. We have Brienne and Jaime, Bran and Meera, Sansa might end up with Sandor or Tyrion pretty big characters.

At least it's something. Bette to haveone book than neither of them, but show will give us the ending long before the books will ever do or should I say if.

I'm a sucker for cliche beauty and the beast romance but even I think it would over the top if everybody got together with their designated partner. 

yeah that's what I'm counting on, a show ending. 

 

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16 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

I'm a sucker for cliche beauty and the beast romance but even I think it would over the top if everybody got together with their designated partner. 

yeah that's what I'm counting on, a show ending. 

 

Me too, but not at the expense of another compelling romance. They should have some happy moment before the fight or the impending doom of the White Walkers. Finding love in such a situation is bittersweet.

It might be the only ending we'll ever get to see. Nothing against George because it's up to him to write as he pleases. Considering he'll be involved in prequel spin-off, chances of another books in the near future are slim.

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On 6/5/2017 at 7:17 AM, RhaenysB said:

Yeah, it's interesting how people tend to take these theories for fact. 

Yes Jon is a good guy. I didn't say he isn't, but just because he's a good guy Daenerys doesn't have to fall or him. I know this is stupid and irrational, but I just can't subscribe to the idea of a Jon and Daenerys romance. 

Any afterlife is a question of belief. And what Jon or Beric saw or didn't see at the other end is is debate in its own right. Let's just not hop into the is there life after death discussion here. 

While I was counting on some Rhaegar/Lyanna visions, the Jason Momoa cameo was the best thing they could have done and it got me squalling like kid with a lollipop. But that's just me and my undying Jason's momoa crush, cough cough. 

The House of the Undying visions can be interpreted in many many ways and I'm not entirely sure the writers knew how it was to be interpreted back when they wrote it. It would make sense that her passed family would bring Daenerys beyond the wall where her living family is. Which is fine, it is great. But she still doesn't have to fall in love his nephew just because she is happy to find family. Awww just bring back Drogo, just for two minutes :bawl: (and yes I'm that insufferable fan who actually signs up to the whole west east, mountains seas prophecy shit even though it's totally crackpot) 

I imagine that Bronn would sit on the iron throne and clean his fingernails on the blades all day when he isn't impregnating mountains with Ten Goodmen (the younger brother of Ser Twenty Goodmen who helped Ramsay destroy Stannis's army). Tyrion would be his hand and throw books at their enemies when the political situation so required. 

The first co-ruler, Good Queen Brienne would bring knowledge and safety to the realm by passing on her supernatural tracking skills so that anybody, anywhere, anytime could find their enemies and protégés, be they in the middle of a battlefield, the randomest of inns or practicing swordsmanship on a rock. No question that Jaime would be her faithful hand to wave her goodbye whenever she rowed away for a lecture. 

The second co-ruler, Bad Queen Tyene would bring liberty and love to the realm, she would teach young and old of the ways of seduction, flirt and love So anyone, anywhere, anytime could bind the heart or crotch of their men and women be they in prison, on a pier or on the deck of a ship. Need I even say that Podrick would be her Hand and other things when passing on her skills required demonstration. 

And they lived happily ever after in piece and prosperity. 

Damn, I need to write a book, right? 

HARRR!!!

Great stuff!!!!

You are VERY creative, I enjoyed reading all of that, it was quite clever!!

I'm not sure Bronn would trust Podrick around Tyene, though.  I think Pod and Tyene would be all over each other the first chance they got, and then Bronn would have no choice but to cross poor Pod off.  Which would make me sad, cuz I like Pod a lot (my ideal spin-off from the GOT series would focus on the younger characters from the first run, most notably Arya, Gendry, Lyanna Mormont, Podrick Payne, and some others, with cameos by older people, too.   There'd be plenty of room for people like Tyene and Bronn, though, both of whom I really like a lot, and both of whom I think WILL survive the current run.)

I'm not sure the HBO audience is ready for all the sex there would be in Westeros with Bronn and Tyene as two tri-archs, though, especially with Pod as Tyene's Hand (particularly given all the things Tyene would probably do with that "hand").  I'm thinking that could be non-stop debauchery.

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On 2017. 06. 10. at 2:29 PM, Lord Friendzone said:

Me too, but not at the expense of another compelling romance. They should have some happy moment before the fight or the impending doom of the White Walkers. Finding love in such a situation is bittersweet.

It might be the only ending we'll ever get to see. Nothing against George because it's up to him to write as he pleases. Considering he'll be involved in prequel spin-off, chances of another books in the near future are slim.

:dunno: if they can pull that off, go ahead. I just don't think that's going to be a compelling storyline. 

no idea what he will do, but whatever he does, I'm positive he'll never finish the story. I hope I'm mistaken, but that's just what I think. 

20 hours ago, Cron said:

HARRR!!!

Great stuff!!!!

You are VERY creative, I enjoyed reading all of that, it was quite clever!!

I'm not sure Bronn would trust Podrick around Tyene, though.  I think Pod and Tyene would be all over each other the first chance they got, and then Bronn would have no choice but to cross poor Pod off.  Which would make me sad, cuz I like Pod a lot (my ideal spin-off from the GOT series would focus on the younger characters from the first run, most notably Arya, Gendry, Lyanna Mormont, Podrick Payne, and some others, with cameos by older people, too.   There'd be plenty of room for people like Tyene and Bronn, though, both of whom I really like a lot, and both of whom I think WILL survive the current run.)

I'm not sure the HBO audience is ready for all the sex there would be in Westeros with Bronn and Tyene as two tri-archs, though, especially with Pod as Tyene's Hand (particularly given all the things Tyene would probably do with that "hand").  I'm thinking that could be non-stop debauchery.

Hmm, that really depends on how jealous Bronn is, and he doesn't come off as a jealous type. Also, if Bronn tried to keep Tyene off Pod, Tyene would immediately break their alliance because he wouldn't suffer a man putting boundaries to her freedom. This would result in a bloody war between Dorne and the Crown. Does Bronn want that? They probably wouldn't have enough books for the war. 

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29 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

:dunno: if they can pull that off, go ahead. I just don't think that's going to be a compelling storyline. 

no idea what he will do, but whatever he does, I'm positive he'll never finish the story. I hope I'm mistaken, but that's just what I think. 

Jaime and Brienne just fighting together will be awesome.

We are on the same page here but i don't blame George for it. Without him and his beautiful there will be no story like this.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Jaime and Brienne just fighting together will be awesome.

We are on the same page here but i don't blame George for it. Without him and his beautiful there will be no story like this.

What does that have to do with Jon and Daenerys getting together? 

Yeah, I kinda do... I mean there's a small hidden part of my brain that maybe understands, but mostly, I don't. 

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17 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

What does that have to do with Jon and Daenerys getting together? 

Yeah, I kinda do... I mean there's a small hidden part of my brain that maybe understands, but mostly, I don't. 

I thought we were talking about Jaime and Brienne. Well, anyway Dany and Jon are a compelling romance. Everything building up to it and it was almost like two poeple tid with Red String of Fate.. You know that Chinese legend that says that the Gods tie an invisible red string to ankles or fingers of two people, these two people are destined to be together. Considering how much foreshadowing these to have.

"A blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweatness." ... mother of dragons, bride of fire.

Daenerys ACOK

Who has pale silver hair?

"The old woman washed, her long pale-silver hair and gently combed out the snags, all in silence."

Daenerys AGOT

"The light of the half-moon turnd Vals honey-blond hair a pale silver and left her cheeks as white as snow. She took a deep breath. The air tastes sweatness."

Jon ADWD

As you can see, Jon did liked Val and thouht Ghost and Val belong together, Air taste sweatness.

"Sometimes she would close her eyes and dream of him, but it was never Jorah Mormont she dreamed, her lover was always cyounger and more comely, thought his face remained a shifting shadow."

Daenerys ACOK

"He was who he was, Jon Snow, bastard and oathbreaker, motherless, friendless, and damned. For the rest of his life, however long that might be - he would be condemned to be an outside, silent man standing in the shadows who dares not to speak his true name."

Jon AGOT

There also an passage about Dany sleeping beside the captain and still feeling lonely, same as Jon besides Ygritte again lonely.

"Off in the distance a wolf howled. That sound made her feel sad and lonely, but no less hungry. As the moon rose above the grasslands, Dany slipped at last into a restless sleep."

Daenerys ADWD

That happend after Jon's death.

 

I understand George but part of me is dissapointed.

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