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US Politics: Terminal America


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5 hours ago, Mexal said:

What did Trump get? Trump's whole shtick is he's a master negotiator so if he's getting what he wants without giving up anything, I can see why they'd spin that as a positive. Thing is, I'm not seeing what he actually got.

This annoys me. Recuse oneself, like with Sessions, means jack shit these days. It's a political stunt to take the public pressure off themselves after monumental fuck ups (e.g. lying to congress, midnight rendezvous at the WH) and it has seemed to work.  

He got the promise that European countries would increase military spending. (I won't get into this discussion, just mention that other countries pay a lot for the results of American military interventions already...)

Back to climate change... Trump vs Earth: WIN! Awesome!

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4 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Did Trump really truly say he represents Pittsburgh, not Paris? Did he really truly say something so incredibly fucking stupid?

I'm not at home, I just skimmed the headlines on Facebook.

Yes, he said that and he lost Pittsburgh by like 10 pts.

And then there is this.

 

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8 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Where did "taking down" Trump come from?  We're talking about whether this anti-Paris stand will help Trump's popularity, and I don't think it will.  The business community is pretty overwhelmingly against it and independents usually favor this type of multi-lateral action.  It's hard to see anybody but Trump's existing base really swayed by this. 

Poor choice of words. I meant nothing ever seems to sink Trump's popularity how it should and in many cases actually boosts it in ways strategically advantageous for Trump.

I see half of America that I've lost faith in, that they will hear Trump's speech and not be disgusted or horrified or saddened by it but pumped up by it.

I hope I'm wrong, but like I said, I've lost my faith at this point and time.

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is there any chance that other nations are going to launch official economic sanctions against the united states or unofficial populist boycotts ?

I'm guessing the model would be anti-apartheid global mobilization against South Africa. Trump's climate apartheid policy clearly hurts the rest of the world, and I expect they will try to punish the US for it. It would certainly be a popular move in the rest of the world to levy sanctions on the United States.

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1 minute ago, drawkcabi said:

Elon Musk resigns from Trump's Presidential Council over Paris Agreement.

Also, I wonder how much this stirs the hornets' nest and for how long Trump gets to benefit from changing the narrative from Russia.

Damn. It is sad that in order to make a symbolic point about climate change, the chance to speed up the Mars dream with some Trump assistance has to be sacrificed. Getting home after a tough day at work, looking forward to Mars colonization is inspiring and uplifting. Hearing that some country reduced carbon emissions by another percentage point is not nearly as energizing or even interesting.

This sucks. Hopefully Elon scores the loyalty of a lot of greenies with this move, they all go and buy Teslas, and he rakes in the cash to reinvest in SpaceX, which is where the real magic is happening.

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It should be self evident that the earth is not a closed system, especially in modern times.  Not environmentally, not politically, not economically.  Further we have reached a point in time where our technology is capable of destroying us, whether that be through environmental degradation, nuclear conflict, or some other means.  

To me, it is very clear that international agreements and cooperation are the only way forward if you are interested in a long-term human presence in the universe.  Yet our leadership is incredibly short-sighted and not capable of thinking beyond the next press conference.  America should be taking the lead in these things, not behaving as the spoiled child in the room. 

I hope Trump and his fans are reveling in all this winning because history is not going to be kind to them.  And likely it will not be kind to the entire American boomer generation, sandwiched as they are between an older generation and a younger generation that both seem capable of caring about things other than themselves.  

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My hot take is that with this administration, leaving the Paris Agreement is probably the better longterm option.

Better to leave and galvanize other countries to step up their actions and leadership, than to stay and try to undercut it at every turn.

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14 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Damn. It is sad that in order to make a symbolic point about climate change, the chance to speed up the Mars dream with some Trump assistance has to be sacrificed. Getting home after a tough day at work, looking forward to Mars colonization is inspiring and uplifting. Hearing that some country reduced carbon emissions by another percentage point is not nearly as energizing or even interesting.

This sucks. Hopefully Elon scores the loyalty of a lot of greenies with this move, they all go and buy Teslas, and he rakes in the cash to reinvest in SpaceX, which is where the real magic is happening.

Boggles the mind. None of us will be alive for Mars colonization if it even happens.

Trump marginal assistance would be negligible regardless of Musk's engagement with the administration.

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9 minutes ago, Inigima said:

First Sessions violates his recusal, now Nunes is doing it: http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/335942-schiff-nunes-issuing-subpoenas-a-violation-of-recusal

None of these fucking people have an ounce of integrity in them.

#DraintheSwamp

Ben%20Garrison%20is%20insane_zpss1halkpd

 

/I so want a T-shirt with that image. I could wear it with a camo MAGA hat and inflitrate any Right Wing organization I could choose. I'd call myself the Undercover Nutter.

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36 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

Poor choice of words. I meant nothing ever seems to sink Trump's popularity how it should and in many cases actually boosts it in ways strategically advantageous for Trump.

The reason nothing seems to sink him is because he's already historically unpopular. But that doesn't mean he's about to get any significant boosts either.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

At this point, I don't believe anything is going to get Trump a disapproval lower than 50%. Not a war agains North Korea, not anything. And nothing is going to get his approval higher than mid-40'es at most. The mid-40'es represents points at which all the supposedly disappointed Trump voters regain confidence in him for a while. Anything below that represents when they disagree with him on a recent decision or punish him for a recent failure. (They'd still vote for him in a heartbeat, of course.) But that's about it. The fact remains that over half of the country disapproves of Trump, always has and probably always will. I don't think that can change at this point. What can change is that supporters start to get hurt by his policies, or grow impatient with his inaction on certain issues (opioid crisis, for example), or simply grow bored with his flamboyance.

I'd be suprised if that red line ever comes down below the 50-point mark. And I'd be surprised if we don't see a slow decline of that black line over his entire term.

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43 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

Elon Musk resigns from Trump's Presidential Council over Paris Agreement.

Also, I wonder how much this stirs the hornets' nest and for how long Trump gets to benefit from changing the narrative from Russia.

Be nice if some of those big big companies who were urging 45 not to pull out of the Paris Accord, who likely donated to Republican politicians, suddenly didn't...they don't even have to donate to democrats, just not to the Republicans...

And that this is an attempt at distraction seems logical, but will not last.  Russia back on the front burner by Monday at the latest as Comey is warming up in the bullpen...

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13 minutes ago, Fez said:

My hot take is that with this administration, leaving the Paris Agreement is probably the better longterm option.

Better to leave and galvanize other countries to step up their actions and leadership, than to stay and try to undercut it at every turn.

That's not how you hot take Fez. This is:

 

What an idiot. Just when you thought Trump couldn't be any more of an embarrassment, he goes and takes his teeny tiny hands and rips up the Paris Accords. The titans of industry and the leaders of the world who represent 94% of the people on this planet asked him not to do it, pleaded with him, begged him, and he did it anyways. Why? To spite President Obama. Who behaves like that? I'll tell you. A pathetic loser. And that's what Trump is. A bigly, big league loser. And his loser actions caused the U.S.'s standing in the world to fall drastically. Honestly, he should be ashamed of himself! 

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53 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

is there any chance that other nations are going to launch official economic sanctions against the united states or unofficial populist boycotts ?

I'm guessing the model would be anti-apartheid global mobilization against South Africa. Trump's climate apartheid policy clearly hurts the rest of the world, and I expect they will try to punish the US for it. It would certainly be a popular move in the rest of the world to levy sanctions on the United States.

It is almost certain that countries will do so - either to punish the US or because it's opportunistic to do so.

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11 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

The reason nothing seems to sink him is because he's already historically unpopular. But that doesn't mean he's about to get any significant boosts either.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

At this point, I don't believe anything is going to get Trump a disapproval lower than 50%. Not a war agains North Korea, not anything. And nothing is going to get his approval higher than mid-40'es at most. The mid-40'es represents points at which all the supposedly disappointed Trump voters regain confidence in him for a while. Anything below that represents when they disagree with him on a recent decision or punish him for a recent failure. (They'd still vote for him in a heartbeat, of course.) But that's about it. The fact remains that over half of the country disapproves of Trump, always has and probably always will. I don't think that can change at this point. What can change is that supporters start to get hurt by his policies, or grow impatient with his inaction on certain issues (opioid crisis, for example), or simply grow bored with his flamboyance.

I'd be suprised if that red line ever comes down below the 50-point mark. And I'd be surprised if we don't see a slow decline of that black line over his entire term.

I think you mean higher.

I wonder who got in Trump's ear and told him to say that he intends to re-negotiate the US's commitment to the Paris accord? Is that Ivanka or Jared having whatever positive influence they can on him?

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3 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I think you mean higher.

I wonder who got in Trump's ear and told him to say that he intends to re-negotiate the US's commitment to the Paris accord? Is that Ivanka or Jared having whatever positive influence they can on him?

No. He said it right. Trump's disapproval numbers are already above 50%. He's arguing that nothing Trump does will lower said number below 50%, or in other words, Trump is guaranteed to have at least half of the country against him no matter what.

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59 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

is there any chance that other nations are going to launch official economic sanctions against the united states or unofficial populist boycotts ?

I'm guessing the model would be anti-apartheid global mobilization against South Africa. Trump's climate apartheid policy clearly hurts the rest of the world, and I expect they will try to punish the US for it. It would certainly be a popular move in the rest of the world to levy sanctions on the United States.

 

3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

It is almost certain that countries will do so - either to punish the US or because it's opportunistic to do so.

Doubtful. I certainly know we're not going to do anything to try to punish the USA. Australia won't, the UK won't, Canada won't, I don't think Japan will, I doubt China will, the Saudis certainly won't pull out of their $118bn military deal. To try to hit the USA economically over climate is to play a sort of economic brinkmanship for which I don't think enough / many / any countries have the stomach. 

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1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

No. He said it right. Trump's disapproval numbers are already above 50%. He's arguing that nothing Trump does will lower said number below 50%, or in other words, Trump is guaranteed to have at least half of the country against him no matter what.

Stupid me, I read "approval" instead of disapproval.

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