briantw Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: Can we start with the obvious, which is that there is no chance in hell that the Pacers would trade George for Love? Paul George is leaving the Pacers next summer. They'll either let him walk for nothing or try to trade him this year by the deadline. George, naturally, has a bit of power here, as he can tell any team that's willing to trade for him that he's unwilling to re-sign there, which would effectively kill the trade. 5 hours ago, Relic said: This again? I figured a ring would put the long-term vs. short-term debate to rest re: this trade. Anyway, here's a little fact for you - Andrew Wiggins’ field goal percentage and pts/shot statistics are both lower than league average. It also ignores that Love was taken out of the game by the refs three minutes into the first on a bullshit second foul call and never got a chance to establish any sort of shooting rhythm. He's the type of player who needs some good looks early to get into gear, and he wasn't allowed to do that. But I agree...the ring the Cavs won should have silenced all the Love for Wiggins bullshit once and for all. The Cavs won that trade (and that doesn't mean the Wolves lost it...it just means the Cavs got exactly what they wanted out of it). Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 12 hours ago, Relic said: Lebron still has another 5 years left in his NBA career. But not as a main gun. He is only 32, but he has 14 years of wear and tear on his body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Red Tiger said: But not as a main gun. He is only 32, but he has 14 years of wear and tear on his body. Normally I'd agree with you, but this guy is an anomaly. He just averaged a triple double in a five game set. Despite the mileage, he's not showing much as far as signs of aging go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Normally I'd agree with you, but this guy is an anomaly. He just averaged a triple double in a five game set. Despite the mileage, he's not showing much as far as signs of aging go. I have heard this shit so many times it's not even funny. Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem, Jordan, Karl Malone and to a certain extent Kobe and that's just off the top of my head. All of them sooner or later started to slow down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 LeBron doesn't need to lead his team in scoring to be incredibly effective. He's got years and years barring unexpected injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Red Tiger said: I have heard this shit so many times it's not even funny. Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem, Jordan, Karl Malone and to a certain extent Kobe and that's just off the top of my head. All of them sooner or later started to slow down. Didn't Kareem and Malone both play at a high level until they were like forty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Red Tiger said: I have heard this shit so many times it's not even funny. Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem, Jordan, Karl Malone and to a certain extent Kobe and that's just off the top of my head. All of them sooner or later started to slow down. Oh yeah, I'm not saying he isn't going to slow down, I'm just saying I'm not willing to predict when that is likely to happen. Given the mileage that is on him already, I'd have thought that there would be some visible signs by now. But that simply isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Relic said: LeBron doesn't need to lead his team in scoring to be incredibly effective. He's got years and years barring unexpected injury. Neither did Wilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 59 minutes ago, briantw said: Didn't Kareem and Malone both play at a high level until they were like forty? Yes and no. Kareem had many years in his 30s where he looked like he was feeling the effects of age (and his rebounding got worse and worse, not good for a center) and then at 37-38 he had a brief resurgence and got the finals MVP. Malone still put up the scoring numbers, but defensively he took several steps back and needed to be fed the ball a lot more to score, rather than creating for himself like he could do before. Yeah I know Stockton to Malone was popular from the start but he needed a lot more than Stockton as he got older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, Red Tiger said: Neither did Wilt. Yeah, but Wilt always cared more about padding his stats and banging chicks than he did about winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 hours ago, briantw said: Paul George is leaving the Pacers next summer. They'll either let him walk for nothing or try to trade him this year by the deadline. George, naturally, has a bit of power here, as he can tell any team that's willing to trade for him that he's unwilling to re-sign there, which would effectively kill the trade. It doesn't make sense for them to trade for Love. That means they'll be looking at a late lottery pick for several years, which is the worst position to be in in the NBA. They're much better off dumping George for high picks. 45 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Normally I'd agree with you, but this guy is an anomaly. He just averaged a triple double in a five game set. Despite the mileage, he's not showing much as far as signs of aging go. Apparently these 5 games were the best consecutive 5 games of his entire career. He'll be the best player in the league for another 2-3 years and will still be an All-Star caliber player for a few years afterwards. The problem is that there aren't a lot of scenarios that end with him winning more than one fluke title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Just now, Tywin et al. said: It doesn't make sense for them to trade for Love. That means they'll be looking at a late lottery pick for several years, which is the worst position to be in in the NBA. They're much better off dumping George for high picks. Again, George is the master of his own destiny here. If he says he won't re-sign with a team, that team won't trade any high picks for him. Kevin Love only got traded for Andrew Wiggins because he sat down with Dan Gilbert and committed to staying with the Cavs after his contract ended. If he hadn't given any sort of commitment, the Cavs wouldn't have traded for him. No team is going to trade lottery picks for George if he refuses to commit to them after next season. Also, do you really think that Kevin Love couldn't lead a team to the playoffs in the East? He came a couple games away from doing it in the West a few years back, and the West was a lot more stacked top to bottom that year than it is now (there is still a lot of top-end talent out west, but there are also a lot more basement teams now). If you structure an offense around Love, I think he can absolutely be the best player on a .500 team. I also think the Pacers aren't the type of team to attempt a total rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, briantw said: Again, George is the master of his own destiny here. If he says he won't re-sign with a team, that team won't trade any high picks for him. Kevin Love only got traded for Andrew Wiggins because he sat down with Dan Gilbert and committed to staying with the Cavs after his contract ended. If he hadn't given any sort of commitment, the Cavs wouldn't have traded for him. No team is going to trade lottery picks for George if he refuses to commit to them after next season. Also, do you really think that Kevin Love couldn't lead a team to the playoffs in the East? He came a couple games away from doing it in the West a few years back, and the West was a lot more stacked top to bottom that year than it is now (there is still a lot of top-end talent out west, but there are also a lot more basement teams now). If you structure an offense around Love, I think he can absolutely be the best player on a .500 team. I also think the Pacers aren't the type of team to attempt a total rebuild. I think that bolded bit is almost guaranteed at this point, as Larry Legend is stepping away, right? Any new GM that comes in is going to want to put his mark on this team. If they are destined to lose George (which seems to be a reasonable assumption at this point) why wouldn't you just rebuild? Also, taking Love wouldn't necessarily be a sign that they would not rebuild, as they could potentially trade him for picks as well. I suppose much of this is going to depend on what sort of offers they get for George, and from who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: I think that bolded bit is almost guaranteed at this point, as Larry Legend is stepping away, right? Any new GM that comes in is going to want to put his mark on this team. If they are destined to lose George (which seems to be a reasonable assumption at this point) why wouldn't you just rebuild? Also, taking Love wouldn't necessarily be a sign that they would not rebuild, as they could potentially trade him for picks as well. I suppose much of this is going to depend on what sort of offers they get for George, and from who. True, and Love has several years left on his deal, so moving him is actually a lot easier than moving George since he can't use his unwillingness to re-sign to control his landing spot. Rebuilding, though, is ultimately an ownership decision, and the Pacers may be happy to turn a profit every year and get in a couple of playoff games. There's really no path to them competing to win the East in the foreseeable future anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 hours ago, briantw said: Yeah, but Wilt always cared more about padding his stats and banging chicks than he did about winning. This is a myth. The reason Wilt scored so damn much early on in his career is because his coaches saw a big-time scorer in him, so they pushed him to score a lot. When Alex Hannum took over as a coach he passed the ball a lot more and the Warriors won a lot more games. The losses he endured actually hit him very hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 4 hours ago, Red Tiger said: Yes and no. Kareem had many years in his 30s where he looked like he was feeling the effects of age (and his rebounding got worse and worse, not good for a center) and then at 37-38 he had a brief resurgence and got the finals MVP. LISTEN KID! I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 52 minutes ago, Rhom said: LISTEN KID! I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes. That's a roger, Roger. You have clearance, Clarence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 BREAKING: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, Jaime L said: BREAKING: Draymond Green just punched himself in the nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 10 hours ago, Rhom said: LISTEN KID! I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes. Surely, you must be kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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