NBA Finals: TRILOGY Edition!!!

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Another scenario I've heard is that Paul goes to Cleveland and Kyrie gets traded for the best SG he can net. 

And who would that be? Thompson? Lol. That makes zero sense as a franchise. Paul is almost done, Irving is in his mid-twenties.

[briantw]

25 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

And who would that be? Thompson? Lol. That makes zero sense as a franchise. Paul is almost done, Irving is in his mid-twenties.

Well, Irving already basically plays SG for the Cavs, as LeBron is the point guard.  Regardless, I don't see this one as terribly likely.  Paul would have to sign for peanuts to play for the Cavs.  Unless he really, really wants to win a ring, I don't see him doing that.

About the only guy I could think of who would be a viable trade candidate for Irving in this scenario is Jimmy Butler if we're looking solely at two guards.  

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

31 minutes ago, briantw said:

Well, Irving already basically plays SG for the Cavs, as LeBron is the point guard.  Regardless, I don't see this one as terribly likely.  Paul would have to sign for peanuts to play for the Cavs.  Unless he really, really wants to win a ring, I don't see him doing that.

About the only guy I could think of who would be a viable trade candidate for Irving in this scenario is Jimmy Butler if we're looking solely at two guards.  

Exactly. And how much more does Butler give you than Irving? 

[briantw]

6 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Exactly. And how much more does Butler give you than Irving? 

In general?  Probably not much.  But if Chris Paul joins the Cavs somehow (again, not something I see as plausible...just commenting on the hypothetical), it's a trade I'd probably be okay with.  Butler would provide them with a better match-up defensively against the Warriors than Kyrie would alongside Paul.  And really, you're game-planning at this point to either match up with the Warriors or Spurs, because no one else is coming out of the West any time soon.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

4 minutes ago, briantw said:

In general?  Probably not much.  But if Chris Paul joins the Cavs somehow (again, not something I see as plausible...just commenting on the hypothetical), it's a trade I'd probably be okay with.  Butler would provide them with a better match-up defensively against the Warriors than Kyrie would alongside Paul.  And really, you're game-planning at this point to either match up with the Warriors or Spurs, because no one else is coming out of the West any time soon.

I would take Paul and Butler for Irving, yes. And would probably make them better.

[briantw]

5 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

I would take Paul and Butler for Irving, yes. And would probably make them better.

Exactly.  Just trading Irving for Butler feels mostly like a wash to me, and Kyrie is two years younger.  But if Paul is already on board, I think it's a trade that definitely makes the Cavs better.  

And regardless, the Cavs' window to compete is pretty much as long as LeBron is still on the team.  No point worrying about the state of the team after LeBron retires, because they're likely in for a rebuild at that point anyway.  You gun for titles now and worry about the future once LeBron hangs it up.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

11 minutes ago, briantw said:

Exactly.  Just trading Irving for Butler feels mostly like a wash to me, and Kyrie is two years younger.  But if Paul is already on board, I think it's a trade that definitely makes the Cavs better.  

And regardless, the Cavs' window to compete is pretty much as long as LeBron is still on the team.  No point worrying about the state of the team after LeBron retires, because they're likely in for a rebuild at that point anyway.  You gun for titles now and worry about the future once LeBron hangs it up.

I will concede @Manhole Eunuchsbane, its gonna take a fucking miracle to pull this one off. I was wrong in my estimation of just how good GS is this year. Durant and Curry have been lights out. And, I huff Bron-Bron darts and all, but Steph put him through the washing machine last night on the way to that lay up.

[Maithanet]

13 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

I huff Bron-Bron darts and all, but Steph put him through the washing machine last night on the way to that lay up.

Meh.  Curry double dribbled on that play, which is why Lebron jumped out of position.  He has every right to be pissed that the highlight reel play of Game 2 was him getting schooled and he played defense correctly.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

And who would that be? Thompson? Lol. That makes zero sense as a franchise. Paul is almost done, Irving is in his mid-twenties.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. They were specifically saying that the only way for the Cavs to get past the Warriors was to sign Paul and trade Kyrie for Butler. A starting lineup of Paul, Butler, LeBron, Love and TT would be pretty devastating, and they'd also have four starting All-Stars to match Golden State's four. This lineup wouldn't lose anything on the offensive end while making significant gains on the defensive end. And with a bench of D. Williams, Korver, J.R. and Frye plus one or two aging All-Stars on vet minimum contracts, they might have a chance. 

[Maithanet]

13 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Sorry, I should have been more clear. They were specifically saying that the only way for the Cavs to get past the Warriors was to sign Paul and trade Kyrie for Butler. A starting lineup of Paul, Butler, LeBron, Love and TT would be pretty devastating, and they'd also have four starting All-Stars to match Golden State's four. This lineup wouldn't lose anything on the offensive end while making significant gains on the defensive end. And with a bench of D. Williams, Korver, J.R. and Frye plus one or two aging All-Stars on vet minimum contracts, they might have a chance. 

That would be interesting to watch, I'll definitely say that.  They would have some problems with floor spacing since only two of those guys are really threats from deep.  But still, four of those five guys are above average defenders, and that's the big weakness the Cavs have right now. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

That would be interesting to watch, I'll definitely say that.  They would have some problems with floor spacing since only two of those guys are really threats from deep.  But still, four of those five guys are above average defenders, and that's the big weakness the Cavs have right now. 

I don't think spacing would be an issue. All four All-Stars shot above 36% this year from beyond the arc, and TT is just there to crash the boards. But I agree that the defensive boost would be huge. One of the major differences in this series is that the Dubs have several two way players. The Cavs only have one.

Stats for reference:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html

ETA:

And if you're worried about spacing, you can go small, kick TT to the bench, Slide Butler, James and Love up a slot and put Korver in at the 2. Then you'd have 5 All-Stars. Eat that GS. Big 5 > Big  4.

[briantw]

6 hours ago, Maithanet said:

That would be interesting to watch, I'll definitely say that.  They would have some problems with floor spacing since only two of those guys are really threats from deep.  But still, four of those five guys are above average defenders, and that's the big weakness the Cavs have right now. 

I wouldn't say that.  Chris Paul shot over 40% from three this year.  Butler was at 37%.  Love shot 37% as well but has shot a scorching 46% this postseason.  James shot 36% from three in the regular season and has bumped it to 41% in the playoffs.

Butler would actually be a slight upgrade from Smith, as Smith only shot 35% from three during the regular season this year, and I think we can all agree that Butler can also do a lot more than just be a spot-up guy.  Paul and Irving would be mostly a wash from three.  Paul shot a slightly higher percentage this year, but I would say that Irving is, generally speaking, the slightly better shooter of the two.  

The key, though, would be the two-for-one upgrade.  The Cavs would be getting significantly better at one position (SG) and slightly better at another (PG).  Granted, Paul's long-term outlook is significantly less rosy than Irving's, as he's six years older, but like I mentioned above, the Cavs really shouldn't be too interested in long-term outlooks anyway.  Their goal should be to make the moves to compete now while LeBron is still playing at a high level and worry about the future once that's no longer the case.  

Granted, if they turn things around and win this series, the outlook may change.  But it's all hypothetical at this point.

[sperry]

Once again, not a fucking game tonight. Don't think I will tune in tomorrow night, the long delays combined with the inevitability have killed my interest, even though I do think Cleveland takes Game 3.

[briantw]

6 minutes ago, sperry said:

Once again, not a fucking game tonight. Don't think I will tune in tomorrow night, the long delays combined with the inevitability have killed my interest, even though I do think Cleveland takes Game 3.

The two day break between games two and three actually makes sense, as they have to travel from California to Ohio.  It didn't make any sense between games one and two, though, outside of them just not wanting to air a game on Saturday night.

[sperry]

11 minutes ago, briantw said:

The two day break between games two and three actually makes sense, as they have to travel from California to Ohio.  It didn't make any sense between games one and two, though, outside of them just not wanting to air a game on Saturday night.

 

It really doesn't make sense though. One day break, yes.  But it's a 4 hour plane ride on a chartered jet. They don't need a 2 full day break to recover from that.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

On 6/5/2017 at 4:17 PM, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

I will concede @Manhole Eunuchsbane, its gonna take a fucking miracle to pull this one off. I was wrong in my estimation of just how good GS is this year. Durant and Curry have been lights out. And, I huff Bron-Bron darts and all, but Steph put him through the washing machine last night on the way to that lay up.

To be fair, GS hasn't been this good all year. It seems to me when Durant came back from injury at the end of the Trailblazer series, he and Curry have found a 5th gear when they are both in the game. They seem to just know where the other guy is going to be instinctively, and both of their games have improved because of it. 

As Maith mentioned, that was a clear double-dribble on Curry on that play, but Bron-Bron often gets away with a similar move, so I have trouble feeling much sympathy for him.

For my money Durant is making an early bid for Finals MVP. He's been the best player on the floor these first two games. Obviously he is not asked to do as much as LeBron is, but that said, I think he's outshining him nonetheless. 

 This may as well be an elimination game for the Cavs. I don't see the Warriors letting their foot off of their necks. It's going to take a near perfect game by the Cavs, and a sub par night for the Warriors for Cleveland to manage a win here. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Not to say I think this is over. If Tristan Thompson can shake off the Kardashian curse and rematerialize, if Kyrie gets hot, if Love continues to play as well as he has, and LeBron gives his normal effort, they can pull out a win. Throw in a little homecooking and maybe get Day-day in early foul trouble, etc etc. They are going to have to work all the angles to get it done, but after what happened last season, I'm not going to count my chickens. Maybe going home will be the spark they need to turn this into a series.

 I tend to doubt all of that is going to occur enough for them to take the series, but you can't write off the King until 4 wins are in the bag. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 You bastards going to be watching and posting tonight? I hope so. We haven't had one decent live posting during any of the games. Granted, the games haven't been very good, but I'm getting lonely over here.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

And the site goes down for the majority of the 1st half...Best game by far up to this point. A true dogfight. Both teams burning it up on both ends. Warriors with a 6 point lead at the half 67-61.

And Adam Silver has a face made for radio. I liked his little breakdown there of the current state of the league, but yeesh is that guy is hard to look at or what?

[Sparks]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

And the site goes down for the majority of the 1st half...

Sorry about that.  Traffic was low enough that it seemed the best time to do the database migrations.